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Question: If it took you 8 months to ______, but it took me 2 weeks to _____ because I converted $$
bcbully
Member EpicPosts: 11,843
Yes? No?
Do we need a new term for this type of design, that seems to be becoming standard fare?
Comments
you could consider this EvE model, if your rich buy lots of GTC > sell in game for isk
I know of many russians who fund titans this way, in fact AAA old leader used to be a russian ogligarch and thought of ntohing in buing 1000 GTC a time to fund wars
If you can , then do, fact is i can fund my game time with $0 because people buy theirs from shops
One thing i will say is you will not see gold sellers etc advertize in EvE , yes you may be able to buy currency but having the PLEX option in EvE allows for this without breaking EULA so why break it
And is it P2W in all honesty nope, i love rich r/l people their ships fund my game when they pop
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
If the game currency goes to other players, crafters, loot hounds, ect.. NO.
If it goes to npc's or other money sink...YES
Typically people wont spend 8 months even playing, let alone a goal, so in that scenario it is p2w. if the option to buy is added later after people already spent 8 months, it may work ok.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I wouldn't consider it P2W.
I probably wouldn't play the game either. One aspect of coercive monetization is making the game play boring enough that playing through 8 months isn't actually fun.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I know many gamers are touchy about this topic. I really dont care if it takes me a year to develop my character and someone can buy it immediately from the shop. What does it really matter to me? I have fun playing my way and I guess the guy who bought his character has fun doing it his way.
I also dont usually care if people buy gold from gold sellers to purchase items. I have never done this for fear of getting my account stolen, but if you have the money I don't really care.
I realize I am in the minority on this however.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
If I run from the bill at the resturant, I`d consider it theft.
If I played for 8 months without paying, I`d consider it stealing.
As a general rule of thumb, I tend to think that shortcuts are not P2W. P2W means you can buy an advantage over other, non-paying players. The game is not P2W if you can buy a shortcut to level cap as long as, once there, all players are equal.
Notice that in games such as World of Tanks and World of Warplanes, the repair expenses rise every tier in such a way that it is near-impossible to accumulate wealth in high-tier matches. This puts free accounts at a disadvantage making the premium (paid) account practically mandatory at high tiers.
Games like GW2 are not P2W games for selling XP potions.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Question: If it took you 8 months to ______, but it took me 2 weeks to _____ because I converted $$ to in game currency, would you consider that p2w?
In my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) in order to consider something PAY 2 WIN you need to actually PAY and then WIN, right? If you are not winning it is PFN (pay for nothing).
The only situation where you can actually do that is when there is some kind of PvP competition, and players are able to buy items that are better than any other item you can get for free and give a slight advantage in battle. That is the only moment, when you can say that someone PAID to WIN.
All other cases I don't care and no one should care.... I want to buy LEGO's to construct something out of them, if someone buys LEGO's that are already build into model and glued together that is his retarded choice, and it doesn't hurt me in any way, because there is no winner in LEGO's..... I hope this stupid example explains how PvE works...
In other words, there is no winning in MMO's unless it is some PvP competition, so use this term in those cases, and stop using it in all other 99% of the cases.
But selling xp potions, while not p2w, is cheap and changes the experience. You shouldn't be getting best developer awards with that design.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
there are grey areas
like in WOW, can buy a pet off Blizzard store -- then sell it in game on the auction house
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2495-Sneak-Peek-Guardian-Cub-Tradable-Pet
EQ2 fan sites
Really, REALLY depends on what the blanks are:
BIS Endgame gear - yes
Super spells of PWNage - yes
Max level - probably
Get in game currency - maybe, depends on the game design
The ability to ride a mount - maybe, depends on the game design
A mount that glows like the sun but functions like every other mount in the game - no
a pet - no
red curtains for your house - no
There is no black and white answer because the above is my opinion only, others might think red curtains are the very definition of P2W.
It's not the cash shop. It's designing your game to increase sales while butchering the experience. Way to go! Take the money, but no minds will be blown. No trust will be gained.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Pay to rush, you just pay to go faster, not win at all, pay to win, you pay to get items that can only be obtain thru real cash, or you pay to unlock something that cannot be unlocked thru in-game efforts.
Hope that helped.
(1) x = 2 Weeks + $$
(2) x = 32 Weeks
2 Weeks + $$ = 32 Weeks
$$ = 30 Weeks
Money = Time, therefore...
Time = Money.
QED.
A: Either you have time to spend or money to spend and if it's a direct exchange then the game is "not fun" and players prefer to spend money to avoid playing.
A: If you spend money and it reduces the "fun" of others then it bad ultimately.
A: If you spend money but it does not affect the "fun" for others whereas other conditions do then it might be ok and it might even be good if it increases the fun for the player who spent money.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Yes, God save the subscription. Those were the golden ages. Though I had loads of fun in Mabinogi,, Cosmic break, Wizardry online, Vindictus and Guild Wars 1. Didn't spend anything in Vindictus and played when Guild Wars 1 was alive and didn't have a cash shop (Until a year after the final expansion). In Mabinogi I had a subscription, though it was optional and I rebirthed.
I think F2P is akin to socialism but it's oddly accepted. The payers subsidize the game for people who don't want to, or refuse to pay. However, the profit potential for F2P games is higher because there's no cap on profit from the player, which is probably why companies moved from Sub to "F2P". Along with the fact that "Nobody" pays. Someone somewhere has to pay, and when they do, they pay an insane amount in some games. People spent hundreds on gambling in Cosmic Break for a chance at the cute/sexy character you could get.
If you can get the exact same gear in game that I paid cash for, then it's not.
If I can buy gear with stats that are superior to anything you can get in game, then it is.
With subscription games you get the 8 month grind that you pay for with no fast track option. I'm not sure how that's any better than an 8 month grind that's free with a fast track option.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
this
Crazkanuk
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It's not the developers fault some players are in a rush. Might as well pull a profit from the tools
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
No.
When I play I MMO or MMORPG I already know the majority of players will reach cap level long before I will/want to reach it. Person A buying his way to cap level or player B grinding 24/7 to reach cap level makes no real difference to me.
I am sure many will/can addept to their new "bought" powers, but I am also sure some want to experiance it more rpg style and actually develop their character along their(me incl.) yourney and arn't bothered with those who gained cap level before them.
I think people who play MMO's similar competitive like multiplayer FPS games might have more issue's with the "buy to power"
b2p!? Wait that's already being used...
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.