What would you guys think if (NEXT YEAR) for "anticipated" and "best game" we simply had a drop down menu that covered our entire released and anticipated lists respectively?
One thought on how to improve things. I am also going to make threads next year in advance for ideas on categories. I cannot be an expert on all games and sometimes things just slip through.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I think you should allow people to pick out of a list of all the games. Or at least provide a way to write in a choice along with a reason why. You could some of the more interesting ones along with the winners.
A few other catagories that would be interesting:
Game that didn't deliver what was promised. Best Community Biggest MMO disappointment Best Special Events Best listening to player ideas Best Raids Best Exploration Best Quests Most believable npc's Best Crafting System Best Non-Combat Activity Best Economy Best Loot
Originally posted by Lepidus What would you guys think if (NEXT YEAR) for "anticipated" and "best game" we simply had a drop down menu that covered our entire released and anticipated lists respectively? One thought on how to improve things. I am also going to make threads next year in advance for ideas on categories. I cannot be an expert on all games and sometimes things just slip through.
Bit early but would be better, so all games have equal shot on it. Whole readers choice would also get lot more popularity that way.
I'm a little confused by this. As a Reader's choice - surely the readers should have had a choice about which games were going to be nominated for each category? Why was each category restricted to only 5 entries? Would drop-down menus listing all the games that MMORPG.com counts as being an active MMORPG be somehow missing the point?
I don't see the selections being particularly representative of the readers - just of the panel who selected them.
There were several categories where I didn't like any of the selections but there wasn't a 'none' or 'other' option. (SWG for the story for one.)
I also support the idea of more categories such as 'Best in [x] genre' and 'Best value for money'
I really enjoyed voting but one suggestion I have to make is instead of having about 5 titles per category(exception-most antincipated) I would have about 10. Thanks.
Also I will be running for the Nevada seat for congress and if I win I will make all MMORPG's paid for by the the state so all Nevadans can play for free! Hooyah!
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Originally posted by Lepidus What would you guys think if (NEXT YEAR) for "anticipated" and "best game" we simply had a drop down menu that covered our entire released and anticipated lists respectively? One thought on how to improve things. I am also going to make threads next year in advance for ideas on categories. I cannot be an expert on all games and sometimes things just slip through.
That is a GREAT idea! Then people wouldn't argue about which ones should be where(like I and others) but still happy that these award things are here since I am interested.
I skipped the best World and best PvP categories while voting.
The PvP category is a poorly nominated slate, Guild Wars should not be a part of this site, but even if you decide to stretch the rules on what is considered an MMORPG in order to include forums and coverage here, it most certainly does not deserve inclusion in any kind of "Best of" voting awards for the genre. The inclusion of Shadowbane is horrible as well. It's tiny niche of fanatics may swear up and down it's the best PvP in any MMORPG, but the game is totally irrelevent to the genre at this point. The game is on it's death bed. To include a game that probably represents less than 1/20th or 1% of the MMORPG player base is absurd.
The best Story/World faces similar issues. Anarchy Online, which is the first MMORPG I played for over a year before canceling, holds a soft spot in my heart, but it's a total has been game that should in no way have been included in any best of category. Horizons is in the same boat as AO. Newer, but seemingly with even fewer subscribers. It's not a first tier offering in the MMORPG market and is close to death. Saga of Ryzom, as it was originally hyped, may have seemed a contender in this category if you were to guess a year ago, but in implimentation it has failed miserably. Maybe slightly more valid a choice than the previous two games, if only because it is current. Niche subscription base should not be an automatic disqualifier I suppose, but a game would have to be a stand out in the category to overcome that factor and I don't see Ryzom as a stand out.
After playing WoW for over a year, I have finally reached the point where I need a serious break. It is now only the second MMORPG that has help my attention for a full year. I think that establishes that I played the game long enough to have developed a very complete impression of it's strengths and weaknesses. However, people who know me from guilds or forums also know I am definitely not a fanboi of WoW. That all being said, the worst problem with the above two mentioned categories is the exclusion of WoW. We can argue whether or not it is the best game for PvP or World/Story, but it is clearly deserving of a nomination in both those categories.
The strong impression left by it's exclusion is one of bias againsts the game by the editor of this website or at the very least a subjective assembly of the categories to prevent the 800 lb. gorrila in the genre from sweeping all the awards. I understand that with WoWs subscription base vastly outpacing the competition, one might be concerned that deserving titles might just disappear under it's weight. However, the categories are not "Best Story/World excluding World of Warcraft" and "Best PvP excluding World of Warcraft".
I might add that the PvP category might have been easier to stomach if Eve Online had been included in place of Shadowbane. I still would have argued against the inclusion of Guildwars in any MMORPG category, but aside from that you might be able to make the case that WoW was just edged out barely when narrowing the category down to five.
The Story/World category is the most troublesome. WoW has a very full story, progression that can go to level 60 almost exclusively based on questing and argueably the best designed game world currently in existance in the genre. Even EQII, of which I am not a big fan (though I am going to give it another shot while waiting for the WoW expansion) is far more deserving than the lemons I highlighted above.
Originally posted by Lepidus What would you guys think if (NEXT YEAR) for "anticipated" and "best game" we simply had a drop down menu that covered our entire released and anticipated lists respectively?One thought on how to improve things. I am also going to make threads next year in advance for ideas on categories. I cannot be an expert on all games and sometimes things just slip through.
I think that next year, there should be a round of voting in November or mid December to come up with the nominees in all categories. Even if you reserved the editorial right to fill out the slate, the first three nominees in each category should be those that pulled the most nomination votes. This avoids the problem where games that might have won a category if included are totally left out due to an editorial "blind spot" (none of us know everything about everygame or can promise a totally objective evaluation). It also allows for the editors to include less popular games they have judged to be stand outs in the category, even if vastly underappreciated. Another possible side effect is that a game that the editors might have not realized was considered as a standout by the community might come to their attention and deserve a little further investigation before the final slates are assembled.
I went back and looked at your choices for graphics I have to say that I think you did a horrible job of choosing. As far as I can tell you really didn't follow any guidelines when picking the ones you did. It seems more that you simply choose games that have different styles of graphics.
I can't speak for Linage II because I haven't played it or seen it in action. Eve certainly belongs up there. Everquest II certainly belongs up there. World of Warcraft and SWG do not belong up there.
World of Warcraft while being a really good MMO, it certainly doesn't have top notch graphics. The things that you said made you decide to put it in that catagory are art style, performance, and user interface. While those things are indeed true, City of Heroes out does WoW in the areas you mention. The user interface is very clean and easy. The game runs on very low specs and runs well. Most of all it feels very much like a comic book world.
As for Star Wars Galaxies, you simply nomitated it because it feels like the Star Wars Universe. Well simply because a game has a major license and makes you feel like you are in that world, does not mean it has execellent graphics. If you were really serious about that reasoning, you would of easily went with The Matrix Online. That game does an awesome job of making the movie world something to play in. MUCH more tha SWG.
So what should you of replaced it with? Saga of Ryzom: The game is nothing short of stunning when playing with all the bells and whistles on. Unlike most MMO's, Ryzoms worlds seems alive. Everything moves, the animals seem like animals. The civilizations towns are very well done artistically. I am still wondering why you didn't make it one of the choices?
While typing this up something else came to my attention and that is the catagory of storyline.
One that you certainly shoulnd't of passed over was The Matrix Online. They did a ton of live events to progress the story forward. They work very hard to make the players feel like they are part of the story and not just reading it. I've never played Anarchy Online, but from your reasoning that game has no business being on that list for best storyline.
There should have been more choices for the storyline, and I would like to see the "Best MMORPG of 2005" which will be decided by the average votes out of each category. (except the ones you are looking forward to).
-Regards to graphics: WoW is in there because they have top notch art direction, as the blurb says. Technically their graphics are nothing special, but their game is quite well put together and looks good. Thus, the nod.
-I know this is tough when a game you want or feel should be there is not. However, you have to keep in mind, no matter who was nominated, someone would have felt left out. I do like the idea of a drop down of all games, perhaps that would be more representative, but I wont pretend I thought of that before hand.
-Check the main page news for an announcement. I did limited nominations because to be honest in the individual categories I felt games would win on popularity over merit. Horizons and Ryzom have spectacular story, but little following. If we put WoW in there, regardless of merit, it might well win. However, this is reader's choice, so I suppose that's fair. Nonetheless, that was the logic. As to a few of the more hotly contested categories: bluntly, I am human and the nominations are not perfect. The news announcement addresses this.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Wow there should be a lot more choices, there were multiple categories where the game I would have chosen wasn't on there...especially for Favorite Game...that was ridiculous....I was really forced to say WoW? That absurd! They should have every mmorpg to date on there if they wanted a real count. WoW isn't my favorite mmorpg! It's just the most favorite out the one on there....so I'm already sure, the votes are going to be inaccurate.
I have no id on earth how they missed Darkfall Online as a candidate for most anticipated mmorpg, especially if you look at some of the other candidates.
Reality is the illusion that arises by lack of alcohol!
Dark and Light should not even be on the list of "Most Anticipated". I was one to get a Pioneer key and also one to get my money back. This game is a total joke and I don't see how in the world they are going to pull this game off to be released. DnL will be pushed back once again, and again after that.
Originally posted by BronxChulo Dark and Light should not even be on the list of "Most Anticipated". I was one to get a Pioneer key and also one to get my money back. This game is a total joke and I don't see how in the world they are going to pull this game off to be released. DnL will be pushed back once again, and again after that.
You are not the only person dissapointed, but that doesn't mean it's not one of the most anticipated. The activity on their boards alone shows that DnL is one of the most anticipated i've seen so far (I was one of those people looking forward to this, and still am even if it might take another 8 months to get out).
So read the topic, "most anticipated" not "what one BronxChulo will like the most".
>>> Gynthazi <<< "Every man is a divinity in disguise, a God playing the fool." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Originally posted by BronxChulo Dark and Light should not even be on the list of "Most Anticipated". I was one to get a Pioneer key and also one to get my money back. This game is a total joke and I don't see how in the world they are going to pull this game off to be released. DnL will be pushed back once again, and again after that.
You are not the only person dissapointed, but that doesn't mean it's not one of the most anticipated. The activity on their boards alone shows that DnL is one of the most anticipated i've seen so far (I was one of those people looking forward to this, and still am even if it might take another 8 months to get out).
So read the topic, "most anticipated" not "what one BronxChulo will like the most".
>>> Gynthazi <<< "Every man is a divinity in disguise, a God playing the fool." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I too feel that EVE online should have been in the "PvP" category, as it has some hard consequences to death. Major losses can be a result of losing a fight. IE: implants which cost in the hundreds of millions, ships which can cost in the billions, etc.
Although I'm not a PvPer by trade, EVE has the harshest penalties for death that I have encountered. Also, winning or losing is not just about who has the best gear, personal skill plays a very big role.
I'm thinking DAoC has better graphics then some of the nominies. But that made me vote for the only game I really played out of those which means I could have voted for the wrong one. Although I'm sure many people are voting that way so it won't matter much.
I like this tradition and can't wait to see the results. Good luck MMORPG.COM
Originally posted by Lepidus Some comments... One hopefully you guys give us some slack, there is no right choice in many of these since someone is going to be upset in all times. Remember, to add someone in you need to take someone out. EVE in PvP is a decent point, but again, who do you take out? Spellborn is also a game that could have been on the Anticipated list, but so could 10 other games and the 12 that were already there. Given their hype meter rating though, perhaps that was an oversight. If we have close categories I have considered a run-off. If we do this - and no promises - I will add the larger oversights into it at that time. To date the only things that I have heard that I feel qualify are AC in Story and EvE in PvP. I cannot say I'll do it in Anticipated as the category would be 12 big again Thoughts?
I bought and played Guild Wars and they say their game is not a MMORPG, but a CORPG. So how can you say they are a MMO when they deny being one? I think this game should have been replaced by another on whatever list they are on. You could replace GW for EVE on PVP. For the record though, I returned GW because I hate the fully instanced game and I don't like EVE either. But EVE deserves to on there verses GW since at least it's a MMO.
Originally posted by isia Would have dropped GW from all catagoires, just not in the genre, but then they are part of mmporg.com. Eve is heavily pimped on this site. Not that it is a bad game, though I personally could never keep a connection up, and its brutal on disconnects. But if you mention Eve over here you'll get 5 new accounts telling you how great it is, so take it for what its worth. Worth your time to go look yourself, if you can take running cargo ships. DAOC for "great PvP" isn't even remotely serious. 2 second pvp is great? Joke post. But the RvR concept is very classic. I thought "best storyline" was a throwaway catagory for games that would not normally be rated by anyone. "Write-your-own-story" SWG doesn't count.
DAoC a joke? I've played most of the hyped MMO's out there and DAoC has the best PvP out of all of them. Two second PvP? Well you are close on that one, but that doesn't mean it sucks. You have the ability to take keeps and outposts, not to mention use siege. Any other game I've played with PvP in it was just a gank fest and although DAoC has this too, atleast you can control keeps and siege.
As far as the story line goes, I voted for SWG even though I didn't want to, since I didn't play the other games on the list. I found a previous post about SWG being a sand box MMO which means it is the players responsibility to create a story line and I actually agree with them. Too many people forget the RPG in MMORPG and SWG forces you to RP if you want a story line. The game also has story lines all throughout the game if you care to look. The first 30 levels have a story line not to mention all the other expansions and lets not forget all the theme parks which also have "story lines." Do I think SWG has a good story line? No I don't and I wouldn't have voted for them if I knew the other games well enough to make an accurate decision.
Just thought you should hear others thoughts on the matter, since you decided it was a "joke"
Originally posted by Lepidus What would you guys think if (NEXT YEAR) for "anticipated" and "best game" we simply had a drop down menu that covered our entire released and anticipated lists respectively? One thought on how to improve things. I am also going to make threads next year in advance for ideas on categories. I cannot be an expert on all games and sometimes things just slip through.
A drop down menu that covers up and coming games would be better, but don't include already released games since those that are anticipating those could go out and buy them if they wanted. Only put the games on the menu that aren't released yet.
Comments
What would you guys think if (NEXT YEAR) for "anticipated" and "best game" we simply had a drop down menu that covered our entire released and anticipated lists respectively?
One thought on how to improve things. I am also going to make threads next year in advance for ideas on categories. I cannot be an expert on all games and sometimes things just slip through.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I think you should allow people to pick out of a list of all the games. Or at least provide a way to write in a choice along with a reason why. You could some of the more interesting ones along with the winners.
A few other catagories that would be interesting:
Game that didn't deliver what was promised.
Best Community
Biggest MMO disappointment
Best Special Events
Best listening to player ideas
Best Raids
Best Exploration
Best Quests
Most believable npc's
Best Crafting System
Best Non-Combat Activity
Best Economy
Best Loot
I'm a little confused by this. As a Reader's choice - surely the readers should have had a choice about which games were going to be nominated for each category? Why was each category restricted to only 5 entries? Would drop-down menus listing all the games that MMORPG.com counts as being an active MMORPG be somehow missing the point?
I don't see the selections being particularly representative of the readers - just of the panel who selected them.
There were several categories where I didn't like any of the selections but there wasn't a 'none' or 'other' option. (SWG for the story for one.)
I also support the idea of more categories such as 'Best in [x] genre' and 'Best value for money'
I really enjoyed voting but one suggestion I have to make is instead of having about 5 titles per category(exception-most antincipated) I would have about 10. Thanks.
Also I will be running for the Nevada seat for congress and if I win I will make all MMORPG's paid for by the the state so all Nevadans can play for free! Hooyah!
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
I skipped the best World and best PvP categories while voting.
The PvP category is a poorly nominated slate, Guild Wars should not be a part of this site, but even if you decide to stretch the rules on what is considered an MMORPG in order to include forums and coverage here, it most certainly does not deserve inclusion in any kind of "Best of" voting awards for the genre. The inclusion of Shadowbane is horrible as well. It's tiny niche of fanatics may swear up and down it's the best PvP in any MMORPG, but the game is totally irrelevent to the genre at this point. The game is on it's death bed. To include a game that probably represents less than 1/20th or 1% of the MMORPG player base is absurd.
The best Story/World faces similar issues. Anarchy Online, which is the first MMORPG I played for over a year before canceling, holds a soft spot in my heart, but it's a total has been game that should in no way have been included in any best of category. Horizons is in the same boat as AO. Newer, but seemingly with even fewer subscribers. It's not a first tier offering in the MMORPG market and is close to death. Saga of Ryzom, as it was originally hyped, may have seemed a contender in this category if you were to guess a year ago, but in implimentation it has failed miserably. Maybe slightly more valid a choice than the previous two games, if only because it is current. Niche subscription base should not be an automatic disqualifier I suppose, but a game would have to be a stand out in the category to overcome that factor and I don't see Ryzom as a stand out.
After playing WoW for over a year, I have finally reached the point where I need a serious break. It is now only the second MMORPG that has help my attention for a full year. I think that establishes that I played the game long enough to have developed a very complete impression of it's strengths and weaknesses. However, people who know me from guilds or forums also know I am definitely not a fanboi of WoW. That all being said, the worst problem with the above two mentioned categories is the exclusion of WoW. We can argue whether or not it is the best game for PvP or World/Story, but it is clearly deserving of a nomination in both those categories.
The strong impression left by it's exclusion is one of bias againsts the game by the editor of this website or at the very least a subjective assembly of the categories to prevent the 800 lb. gorrila in the genre from sweeping all the awards. I understand that with WoWs subscription base vastly outpacing the competition, one might be concerned that deserving titles might just disappear under it's weight. However, the categories are not "Best Story/World excluding World of Warcraft" and "Best PvP excluding World of Warcraft".
I might add that the PvP category might have been easier to stomach if Eve Online had been included in place of Shadowbane. I still would have argued against the inclusion of Guildwars in any MMORPG category, but aside from that you might be able to make the case that WoW was just edged out barely when narrowing the category down to five.
The Story/World category is the most troublesome. WoW has a very full story, progression that can go to level 60 almost exclusively based on questing and argueably the best designed game world currently in existance in the genre. Even EQII, of which I am not a big fan (though I am going to give it another shot while waiting for the WoW expansion) is far more deserving than the lemons I highlighted above.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I think that next year, there should be a round of voting in November or mid December to come up with the nominees in all categories. Even if you reserved the editorial right to fill out the slate, the first three nominees in each category should be those that pulled the most nomination votes. This avoids the problem where games that might have won a category if included are totally left out due to an editorial "blind spot" (none of us know everything about everygame or can promise a totally objective evaluation). It also allows for the editors to include less popular games they have judged to be stand outs in the category, even if vastly underappreciated. Another possible side effect is that a game that the editors might have not realized was considered as a standout by the community might come to their attention and deserve a little further investigation before the final slates are assembled.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I went back and looked at your choices for graphics I have to say that I think you did a horrible job of choosing. As far as I can tell you really didn't follow any guidelines when picking the ones you did. It seems more that you simply choose games that have different styles of graphics.
I can't speak for Linage II because I haven't played it or seen it in action.
Eve certainly belongs up there.
Everquest II certainly belongs up there.
World of Warcraft and SWG do not belong up there.
World of Warcraft while being a really good MMO, it certainly doesn't have top notch graphics. The things that you said made you decide to put it in that catagory are art style, performance, and user interface. While those things are indeed true, City of Heroes out does WoW in the areas you mention. The user interface is very clean and easy. The game runs on very low specs and runs well. Most of all it feels very much like a comic book world.
As for Star Wars Galaxies, you simply nomitated it because it feels like the Star Wars Universe. Well simply because a game has a major license and makes you feel like you are in that world, does not mean it has execellent graphics. If you were really serious about that reasoning, you would of easily went with The Matrix Online. That game does an awesome job of making the movie world something to play in. MUCH more tha SWG.
So what should you of replaced it with?
Saga of Ryzom: The game is nothing short of stunning when playing with all the bells and whistles on. Unlike most MMO's, Ryzoms worlds seems alive. Everything moves, the animals seem like animals. The civilizations towns are very well done artistically. I am still wondering why you didn't make it one of the choices?
While typing this up something else came to my attention and that is the catagory of storyline.
One that you certainly shoulnd't of passed over was The Matrix Online. They did a ton of live events to progress the story forward. They work very hard to make the players feel like they are part of the story and not just reading it. I've never played Anarchy Online, but from your reasoning that game has no business being on that list for best storyline.
There should have been more choices for the storyline, and I would like to see the "Best MMORPG of 2005" which will be decided by the average votes out of each category. (except the ones you are looking forward to).
A few responses:
-Regards to graphics: WoW is in there because they have top notch art direction, as the blurb says. Technically their graphics are nothing special, but their game is quite well put together and looks good. Thus, the nod.
-I know this is tough when a game you want or feel should be there is not. However, you have to keep in mind, no matter who was nominated, someone would have felt left out. I do like the idea of a drop down of all games, perhaps that would be more representative, but I wont pretend I thought of that before hand.
-Check the main page news for an announcement. I did limited nominations because to be honest in the individual categories I felt games would win on popularity over merit. Horizons and Ryzom have spectacular story, but little following. If we put WoW in there, regardless of merit, it might well win. However, this is reader's choice, so I suppose that's fair. Nonetheless, that was the logic. As to a few of the more hotly contested categories: bluntly, I am human and the nominations are not perfect. The news announcement addresses this.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Me.
eee doulbe post mah bad
Me.
I have no id on earth how they missed Darkfall Online as a candidate for most anticipated mmorpg, especially if you look at some of the other candidates.
Reality is the illusion that arises by lack of alcohol!
You are not the only person dissapointed, but that doesn't mean it's not one of the most anticipated. The activity on their boards alone shows that DnL is one of the most anticipated i've seen so far (I was one of those people looking forward to this, and still am even if it might take another 8 months to get out).
So read the topic, "most anticipated" not "what one BronxChulo will like the most".
>>> Gynthazi <<<
"Every man is a divinity in disguise, a God playing the fool." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
You are not the only person dissapointed, but that doesn't mean it's not one of the most anticipated. The activity on their boards alone shows that DnL is one of the most anticipated i've seen so far (I was one of those people looking forward to this, and still am even if it might take another 8 months to get out).
So read the topic, "most anticipated" not "what one BronxChulo will like the most".
>>> Gynthazi <<<
"Every man is a divinity in disguise, a God playing the fool." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I too feel that EVE online should have been in the "PvP" category, as it has some hard consequences to death. Major losses can be a result of losing a fight. IE: implants which cost in the hundreds of millions, ships which can cost in the billions, etc.
Although I'm not a PvPer by trade, EVE has the harshest penalties for death that I have encountered. Also, winning or losing is not just about who has the best gear, personal skill plays a very big role.
Other than that, a very good poll.
I'm thinking DAoC has better graphics then some of the nominies. But that made me vote for the only game I really played out of those which means I could have voted for the wrong one. Although I'm sure many people are voting that way so it won't matter much.
I like this tradition and can't wait to see the results. Good luck MMORPG.COM
Double post. Sorry
Good luck to all the 12 anticipated titles. Good luck to all those voting: hopefully your choices win some prizes.
Mathew "Corwynn Maelstrom" Reuther
Community Manager, The Chronicles of Spellborn
Release: 2006
DAoC a joke? I've played most of the hyped MMO's out there and DAoC has the best PvP out of all of them. Two second PvP? Well you are close on that one, but that doesn't mean it sucks. You have the ability to take keeps and outposts, not to mention use siege. Any other game I've played with PvP in it was just a gank fest and although DAoC has this too, atleast you can control keeps and siege.
As far as the story line goes, I voted for SWG even though I didn't want to, since I didn't play the other games on the list. I found a previous post about SWG being a sand box MMO which means it is the players responsibility to create a story line and I actually agree with them. Too many people forget the RPG in MMORPG and SWG forces you to RP if you want a story line. The game also has story lines all throughout the game if you care to look. The first 30 levels have a story line not to mention all the other expansions and lets not forget all the theme parks which also have "story lines." Do I think SWG has a good story line? No I don't and I wouldn't have voted for them if I knew the other games well enough to make an accurate decision.
Just thought you should hear others thoughts on the matter, since you decided it was a "joke"