I'm 100% on Angry Joe's side. This is utter rubbish. The onus for proof of copyright infringement needs to be placed on the person making the claim to discourage baseless accusations. If proven correct, the person bringing the claim could be recompensed by the guilty party.
Otherwise we have companies being forced into compliance as Youtube was for fear of costly litigation.
He comes off sounding like a little bitch who's angry about having to get a real job again. Yes, I think the underlying content flagging system is a little messed up, but he's basically been able to make a living doing nothing but playing games talking about them. If he wants to keep doing that, then he should build a website and host it all himself.
Ranting about it like a spoiled child for all the world to see isn't really a great move.
He has every right to be as pissed off as he is, he has been making videos for a very long time. Most of his fans would like for him to continue making videos, but that will not be possible if he cannot make a living doing so. This is his living which he has earned. Alot of people are making a living off of playing games (PewDiePie) included.
In that video, you see a man being taken for every single cent and life energy that he put into his videos, and now they're being shut down for bullshit reasons, he gets youtube its views and supported youtube in a big way, and now they 're cutting him out of the picture. Can you imagine how that must feel, we're talking about the guy's living for crying out loud.
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf Not sure if this was put in this thread, but why not just switch to Twitch to do game reviews? On top of everything else you instantly get an audience that is 100% there to watch videos on video games so you're directly with your target audience. Twitch is also growing very quickly.
Not sure, but what does Twitch pay compared to youtube? My guess is that is not even close so again my guess is that is why.
Bwana on Twitch gets appox50-100 views every day and it requires him to have a donation pool up, on good days he gets well above 300+ viewers. In order to make a living running live streams on Twitch, it would require 800-1000 constant viewers and assuming you stream 6-hours a day.
Dansgaming is making a good living with well above 2000+ viewers, streaming on Twitch is probably a better option to getting somewhere than on youtube begging for sub4subs. Twitch is the way to go if you're just starting out. (My opinion)
Twitch let's you archive as well and you can still get views through those. That works in Game Reviewers favor as well because they can live stream for that crowd as well as archive any that are reviews for people who want to check out game reviews on a not live schedule.
Truthfully with how quickly Twitch is growing I wouldn't keep my video game videos on YouTube which is flooded with billions of videos that you have to archaicly search through where as on Twitch you can click on the game you're interested in and instantly have everything else filtered out.
Welcome to planet Earth, where in the words of Gordon Geko, GREED IS GOOD!
youtube and others that do this type of thing will suffer eventually, once they remove everything that draws people to their pathetic web site! With nothing left to look at why would anybody go!
Welcome to planet Earth, where in the words of Gordon Geko, GREED IS GOOD!
youtube and others that do this type of thing will suffer eventually, once they remove everything that draws people to their pathetic web site! With nothing left to look at why would anybody go!
I keep thinking the same thing about FaceBook. When will it die already!?!?
All these cool social media sites are great at the start....the golden years,..then they get too big for their britches,...and gotta feed the machine. Self destructs,...new sites pop up,..one gets the honor of being 'the One',..and we start over.
He comes off sounding like a little bitch who's angry about having to get a real job again. Yes, I think the underlying content flagging system is a little messed up, but he's basically been able to make a living doing nothing but playing games talking about them. If he wants to keep doing that, then he should build a website and host it all himself.
Ranting about it like a spoiled child for all the world to see isn't really a great move.
He has every right to be as pissed off as he is, he has been making videos for a very long time. Most of his fans would like for him to continue making videos, but that will not be possible if he cannot make a living doing so. This is his living which he has earned. Alot of people are making a living off of playing games (PewDiePie) included.
In that video, you see a man being taken for every single cent and life energy that he put into his videos, and now they're being shut down for bullshit reasons, he gets youtube its views and supported youtube in a big way, and now they 're cutting him out of the picture. Can you imagine how that must feel, we're talking about the guy's living for crying out loud.
Show some respect, bro.Not Cool! AngryJoe4Life!
I just don't buy it. Why should youtube/Google be his de facto employer? Why should they take on risk for him to make money? If he has such a "loyal" fanbase, he should have no problems switching sites, or convincing developers to pay him directly, or for him to set-up his own site and recruit his own advertising so that he can continue to make money.
Furthermore, he makes claims about how he (and others) has helped game companies to make money. Can he provide any direct evidence that a game company has profited from his work? What percentage of people watch his videos and then go out and buy the product as a direct result? Or conversely how much money has he directly cost a developer because of a bad review? How much money has he brought to Google and how much has he cost them through IP violations or lawsuits? The only person he can guarantee he is making money for is himself.
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf Not sure if this was put in this thread, but why not just switch to Twitch to do game reviews? On top of everything else you instantly get an audience that is 100% there to watch videos on video games so you're directly with your target audience. Twitch is also growing very quickly.
Not sure, but what does Twitch pay compared to youtube? My guess is that is not even close so again my guess is that is why.
Bwana on Twitch gets appox50-100 views every day and it requires him to have a donation pool up, on good days he gets well above 300+ viewers. In order to make a living running live streams on Twitch, it would require 800-1000 constant viewers and assuming you stream 6-hours a day.
Dansgaming is making a good living with well above 2000+ viewers, streaming on Twitch is probably a better option to getting somewhere than on youtube begging for sub4subs. Twitch is the way to go if you're just starting out. (My opinion)
Twitch let's you archive as well and you can still get views through those. That works in Game Reviewers favor as well because they can live stream for that crowd as well as archive any that are reviews for people who want to check out game reviews on a not live schedule.
Truthfully with how quickly Twitch is growing I wouldn't keep my video game videos on YouTube which is flooded with billions of videos that you have to archaicly search through where as on Twitch you can click on the game you're interested in and instantly have everything else filtered out.
Twitch is the way to go now, the chances of becoming as popular as angry joe show or total halibut, the odds are against you. So many on Youtube are sub4subbing which is a horrendous way of getting more people to view your videos. The only way you will ever get up to a decent subscriber base is A. an already popular Youtube channel promotes you or B. Nothing else really.
It's next to impossible to be the next reviewer of anything, or get anyone to care about your minecraft series. So many others are already making gaming playthrus and so on. Twitch is the way to go, a live viewer is worth so much more than a recorded view. (Thus more money is to be made on Twitch than on Youtube) for the AVERAGE Youtuber/Streamer who is just starting out.
You will find an audience so much faster on Twitch than on Youtube. Dan is a prime example- streamed everyday and now it's paying off alot. People don't login to the stream for the game, they login to the stream for the person playing the game.
He comes off sounding like a little bitch who's angry about having to get a real job again. Yes, I think the underlying content flagging system is a little messed up, but he's basically been able to make a living doing nothing but playing games talking about them. If he wants to keep doing that, then he should build a website and host it all himself.
Ranting about it like a spoiled child for all the world to see isn't really a great move.
He has every right to be as pissed off as he is, he has been making videos for a very long time. Most of his fans would like for him to continue making videos, but that will not be possible if he cannot make a living doing so. This is his living which he has earned. Alot of people are making a living off of playing games (PewDiePie) included.
In that video, you see a man being taken for every single cent and life energy that he put into his videos, and now they're being shut down for bullshit reasons, he gets youtube its views and supported youtube in a big way, and now they 're cutting him out of the picture. Can you imagine how that must feel, we're talking about the guy's living for crying out loud.
Show some respect, bro.Not Cool! AngryJoe4Life!
I'm sorry, but anyone who basis their career on their ability to post sites to a third-party site, where the ToS can change whenever, and doesn't have any sort of backup or contingency plan, is just an idiot. If his content is truly as good as he thinks it is, then he'll have no problem setting up his own site and hosting stuff there.
He comes off sounding like a little bitch who's angry about having to get a real job again. Yes, I think the underlying content flagging system is a little messed up, but he's basically been able to make a living doing nothing but playing games talking about them. If he wants to keep doing that, then he should build a website and host it all himself.
Ranting about it like a spoiled child for all the world to see isn't really a great move.
He has every right to be as pissed off as he is, he has been making videos for a very long time. Most of his fans would like for him to continue making videos, but that will not be possible if he cannot make a living doing so. This is his living which he has earned. Alot of people are making a living off of playing games (PewDiePie) included.
In that video, you see a man being taken for every single cent and life energy that he put into his videos, and now they're being shut down for bullshit reasons, he gets youtube its views and supported youtube in a big way, and now they 're cutting him out of the picture. Can you imagine how that must feel, we're talking about the guy's living for crying out loud.
Show some respect, bro.Not Cool! AngryJoe4Life!
I just don't buy it. Why should youtube/Google be his de facto employer? Why should they take on risk for him to make money? If he has such a "loyal" fanbase, he should have no problems switching sites, or convincing developers to pay him directly, or for him to set-up his own site and recruit his own advertising so that he can continue to make money.
Furthermore, he makes claims about how he (and others) has helped game companies to make money. Can he provide any direct evidence that a game company has profited from his work? What percentage of people watch his videos and then go out and buy the product as a direct result? Or conversely how much money has he directly cost a developer because of a bad review? How much money has he brought to Google and how much has he cost them through IP violations or lawsuits? The only person he can guarantee he is making money for is himself.
1) Angry Joe does have his own site, his own forums and a place to host his own videos. He has been working hard on that VERY thing for over 2 years. That's not the point of this travesty.
2) Yes he does indeed have proof that he has helped small devs by promoting their GOOD games. They have personally thanked him for his HONEST reviews and have seen substantial exposure because of it. One example is the devs of FTL.
3) Yes he DID indeed make YouTube a lot of money considering they take a LARGE percentage of all the revenue his channel has brought in.
4) The whole point of the YouTube system in place was for the affiliate programs to protect the content users and regulate IPs and that's what they did, albeit not a good job of it, YouTube still decided to pull the plug and let the new content ID system run rampant. His OWN content is getting blocked and claimed from it. You don't see the problem there? HIS OWN INTERVIEW WITH A TOMB RAIDER DEVELOPER WAS TAKEN OFF THE MONETARY LIST. An interview in which he paid the plane ticket, hotel, equipment out of his OWN POCKET in order to put up on YouTube so he can recoup his initial investment.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
He comes off sounding like a little bitch who's angry about having to get a real job again. Yes, I think the underlying content flagging system is a little messed up, but he's basically been able to make a living doing nothing but playing games talking about them. If he wants to keep doing that, then he should build a website and host it all himself.
Ranting about it like a spoiled child for all the world to see isn't really a great move.
He has every right to be as pissed off as he is, he has been making videos for a very long time. Most of his fans would like for him to continue making videos, but that will not be possible if he cannot make a living doing so. This is his living which he has earned. Alot of people are making a living off of playing games (PewDiePie) included.
In that video, you see a man being taken for every single cent and life energy that he put into his videos, and now they're being shut down for bullshit reasons, he gets youtube its views and supported youtube in a big way, and now they 're cutting him out of the picture. Can you imagine how that must feel, we're talking about the guy's living for crying out loud.
Show some respect, bro.Not Cool! AngryJoe4Life!
I just don't buy it. Why should youtube/Google be his de facto employer? Why should they take on risk for him to make money? If he has such a "loyal" fanbase, he should have no problems switching sites, or convincing developers to pay him directly, or for him to set-up his own site and recruit his own advertising so that he can continue to make money.
Furthermore, he makes claims about how he (and others) has helped game companies to make money. Can he provide any direct evidence that a game company has profited from his work? What percentage of people watch his videos and then go out and buy the product as a direct result? Or conversely how much money has he directly cost a developer because of a bad review? How much money has he brought to Google and how much has he cost them through IP violations or lawsuits? The only person he can guarantee he is making money for is himself.
1) Angry Joe does have his own site, his own forums and a place to host his own videos. He has been working hard on that VERY thing for over 2 years. That's not the point of this travesty.
2) Yes he does indeed have proof that he has helped small devs by promoting their GOOD games. They have personally thanked him for his HONEST reviews and have seen substantial exposure because of it. One example is the devs of FTL.
3) Yes he DID indeed make YouTube a lot of money considering they take a LARGE percentage of all the revenue his channel has brought in.
4) The whole point of the YouTube system in place was for the affiliate programs to protect the content users and regulate IPs and that's what they did, albeit not a good job of it, YouTube still decided to pull the plug and let the new content ID system run rampant. His OWN content is getting blocked and claimed from it. You don't see the problem there? HIS OWN INTERVIEW WITH A TOMB RAIDER DEVELOPER WAS TAKEN OFF THE MONETARY LIST. An interview in which he paid the plane ticket, hotel, equipment out of his OWN POCKET in order to put up on YouTube so he can recoup his initial investment.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
Exactly this. Also read my 2nd post on the first page from Paradox Interactives post on Reddit.
Exactly this. Also read my 2nd post on the first page from Paradox Interactives post on Reddit.
Thanks for posting all of this Badaboom, I was going to do it last night but was caught up playing Dishonored.
It's obvious some people cannot see the bigger picture here and see how destructive this is to the GOOD games out there, small indie devs, and the industry as a whole.
Being somone currently in preproduction of a Wildstar Machianmia, knowing that i will absolutely need to have things like Let's plays and reviews to support the time and costs of the project. I am pretty pissed off about this.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Originally posted by Nevulus Originally posted by HaitesOriginally posted by RigitdogOriginally posted by asmkm22 He comes off sounding like a little bitch who's angry about having to get a real job again. Yes, I think the underlying content flagging system is a little messed up, but he's basically been able to make a living doing nothing but playing games talking about them. If he wants to keep doing that, then he should build a website and host it all himself. Ranting about it like a spoiled child for all the world to see isn't really a great move.
He has every right to be as pissed off as he is, he has been making videos for a very long time. Most of his fans would like for him to continue making videos, but that will not be possible if he cannot make a living doing so. This is his living which he has earned. Alot of people are making a living off of playing games (PewDiePie) included. In that video, you see a man being taken for every single cent and life energy that he put into his videos, and now they're being shut down for bullshit reasons, he gets youtube its views and supported youtube in a big way, and now they 're cutting him out of the picture. Can you imagine how that must feel, we're talking about the guy's living for crying out loud. Show some respect, bro. Not Cool! AngryJoe4Life!I just don't buy it. Why should youtube/Google be his de facto employer? Why should they take on risk for him to make money? If he has such a "loyal" fanbase, he should have no problems switching sites, or convincing developers to pay him directly, or for him to set-up his own site and recruit his own advertising so that he can continue to make money.Furthermore, he makes claims about how he (and others) has helped game companies to make money. Can he provide any direct evidence that a game company has profited from his work? What percentage of people watch his videos and then go out and buy the product as a direct result? Or conversely how much money has he directly cost a developer because of a bad review? How much money has he brought to Google and how much has he cost them through IP violations or lawsuits? The only person he can guarantee he is making money for is himself.1) Angry Joe does have his own site, his own forums and a place to host his own videos. He has been working hard on that VERY thing for over 2 years. That's not the point of this travesty.
2) Yes he does indeed have proof that he has helped small devs by promoting their GOOD games. They have personally thanked him for his HONEST reviews and have seen substantial exposure because of it. One example is the devs of FTL.
3) Yes he DID indeed make YouTube a lot of money considering they take a LARGE percentage of all the revenue his channel has brought in.
4) The whole point of the YouTube system in place was for the affiliate programs to protect the content users and regulate IPs and that's what they did, albeit not a good job of it, YouTube still decided to pull the plug and let the new content ID system run rampant. His OWN content is getting blocked and claimed from it. You don't see the problem there? HIS OWN INTERVIEW WITH A TOMB RAIDER DEVELOPER WAS TAKEN OFF THE MONETARY LIST. An interview in which he paid the plane ticket, hotel, equipment out of his OWN POCKET in order to put up on YouTube so he can recoup his initial investment.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
The argument that he's doing good can be made by the large content owners who are sending the complaints to Youtube as well, only on a much larger scale. They employ far more people than he has helped, so they do more good for the economy and society.
He's not doing any of the stuff he's doing for altruism. He was getting paid to do it. He's mad because he's not getting paid. Not because he won't get to do all his good deeds.
He's angry at the greed driving the decision that prevents him from engaging in his own act of greed. Being the small guy doesn't make his behavior any more moral than being the big guys makes the content owners evil.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
He comes off sounding like a little bitch who's angry about having to get a real job again. Yes, I think the underlying content flagging system is a little messed up, but he's basically been able to make a living doing nothing but playing games talking about them. If he wants to keep doing that, then he should build a website and host it all himself.
Ranting about it like a spoiled child for all the world to see isn't really a great move.
He has every right to be as pissed off as he is, he has been making videos for a very long time. Most of his fans would like for him to continue making videos, but that will not be possible if he cannot make a living doing so. This is his living which he has earned. Alot of people are making a living off of playing games (PewDiePie) included.
In that video, you see a man being taken for every single cent and life energy that he put into his videos, and now they're being shut down for bullshit reasons, he gets youtube its views and supported youtube in a big way, and now they 're cutting him out of the picture. Can you imagine how that must feel, we're talking about the guy's living for crying out loud.
Show some respect, bro.Not Cool! AngryJoe4Life!
I'm sorry, but anyone who basis their career on their ability to post sites to a third-party site, where the ToS can change whenever, and doesn't have any sort of backup or contingency plan, is just an idiot. If his content is truly as good as he thinks it is, then he'll have no problem setting up his own site and hosting stuff there.
He already owns a website for those who are apart of his community, and he does host his own stuff and has plenty of awesome things on the angryjoeshow website.
You're picking on Joe, this isn't just about him as he isn't the only youtuber (Gameplay Reviewer/Playthru) who is getting screwed. Again watch that video as it will bring a little light to you.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
I watched some of the video but frankly I can't watch the whole thing or take him seriously because all he does is cuss the whole time like a child. This is not the way to gain support for your cause.
Also, I still haven't seen figures backing up what you claim are facts. How much has he made Google and how much has he potentially cost them? Why would Google be doing this if they weren't dealing with legal issues because of it? Why are there legal issues if he is truly helping developers make so much money?
There is always a cause that leads to an effect like this. Have you tried contacting Google to ask them about their new policy? What prompted it and how can "we" as providers of a value-service help them better avoid whatever it is that is forcing this policy?
I agree with you that his own IP should not be blocked, but I imagine that problem will be sorted out sooner than later. No sense getting totally bent out of shape about something that just started. Everything can change, right?
Exactly this. Also read my 2nd post on the first page from Paradox Interactives post on Reddit.
Thanks for posting all of this Badaboom, I was going to do it last night but was caught up playing Dishonored.
It's obvious some people cannot see the bigger picture here and see how destructive this is to the GOOD games out there, small indie devs, and the industry as a whole.
I'm not sure on why some people just don't get it? Maybe they are jealous that someone can be earning a living doing something that they love?
Whats important though is if the content providers cannot provide the content, then it will be the viewers who suffer because their will be fewer things to see.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
I watched some of the video but frankly I can't watch the whole thing or take him seriously because all he does is cuss the whole time like a child. This is not the way to gain support for your cause.
Also, I still haven't seen figures backing up what you claim are facts. How much has he made Google and how much has he potentially cost them? Why would Google be doing this if they weren't dealing with legal issues because of it? Why are there legal issues if he is truly helping developers make so much money?
There is always a cause that leads to an effect like this. Have you tried contacting Google to ask them about their new policy? What prompted it and how can "we" as providers of a value-service help them better avoid whatever it is that is forcing this policy?
I agree with you that his own IP should not be blocked, but I imagine that problem will be sorted out sooner than later. No sense getting totally bent out of shape about something that just started. Everything can change, right?
You should watch the video, and the other couple of videos posted in this thread before you start talking about something you know very little about. At the very least it may give you some more insight while not completely changing your opinion.
youtube used to be just a video hosting site, people used to make videos JUST because they loved the content they created. then, youtube introduced the notion for hobbists of being able to make a few bucks off your content provided you get enough views and likes.
Well of course, some people thought they could take it to the extreme and try to 'live' off the profits they made from youtube, a source of living that has no job security or formal contracts in case of change of agreement or termination.
If youtube ended the partnership program tomorrow, what would he do? kick and scream 'they cant do this they are destroying my lively hood'?
People like joe, almost sound like they are business entity's, but they are not. they are contracted by google (ie they are workers)to generate interest/traffic for adds. except you don't get the same deals and conditions as if you worked for a 'real' employer.
Defining: "Get a real job" - a job which has job security, worker rights and employers accountable by law.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
I watched some of the video but frankly I can't watch the whole thing or take him seriously because all he does is cuss the whole time like a child. This is not the way to gain support for your cause.
Also, I still haven't seen figures backing up what you claim are facts. How much has he made Google and how much has he potentially cost them? Why would Google be doing this if they weren't dealing with legal issues because of it? Why are there legal issues if he is truly helping developers make so much money?
There is always a cause that leads to an effect like this. Have you tried contacting Google to ask them about their new policy? What prompted it and how can "we" as providers of a value-service help them better avoid whatever it is that is forcing this policy?
I agree with you that his own IP should not be blocked, but I imagine that problem will be sorted out sooner than later. No sense getting totally bent out of shape about something that just started. Everything can change, right?
If no one gets "bent out of shape" then nothing will change, its kinda how it works. If no one gets pissed and tells them off then they will think people support them. Also for the figures, every person that watches a video on youtube that has a ad before it gives money to youtube, youtube is owned by google. so yeah he probubly has given them a ton of money. Also add in the fact that people dont tend to watch single videos on youtube they tend to branch out. So if he brought the person to the site to watch something and they click something on the related bar he is then resposible for making google even more money. we cant get figures because google doesnt release the amount it makes yearly on advertising.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I think the courts, when pressed, will side with the reviews.
This is functionally no different than movie reviews and those have been going sine the dawn of motion pictures. And with no charges of copyright infringement or anything else. Does anyone think that the reviewers of movies or TV don't get paid?
To suddenly say: "No... these reviews of video game stuff are something entirely new and different..." does not pass the smell test.
Just seems to be the corporate interests pushing as far as they can, until someone pushes back.
youtube used to be just a video hosting site, people used to make videos JUST because they loved the content they created. then, youtube introduced the notion for hobbists of being able to make a few bucks off your content provided you get enough views and likes.
Well of course, some people thought they could take it to the extreme and try to 'live' off the profits they made from youtube, a source of living that has no job security or formal contracts in case of change of agreement or termination.
If youtube ended the partnership program tomorrow, what would he do? kick and scream 'they cant do this they are destroying my lively hood'?
People like joe, almost sound like they are business entity's, but they are not. they are contracted by google (ie they are workers). except you don't get the same deal as if you worked for an employer.
Defining: "Get a real job" - a job which has job security and employers accountable by law.
Your also missing filmakers who are attempting to get into the buisness via youtube. Given how things currently are Indie films make little over the amount it costs to make the bloody movie, and hollywood doesnt take you seriously until you do several profitable films. Now if you cant make a profitable film in the indie section (baring extreme examples) how do you move up in the filmaking industry. Youtube, Vimeo, etc.
Youtube is great for getting noticed, while making a return on your video. Without it in the modern day market we would lose our film industry over afew generations. With it we can garentee that new blood enters the industry.
Also just so you know, your Definition of a real job is laughable. I work in film making and we work 3 to 4 times as hard as any of your people with "Real Jobs"
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Humorous how people are acting like getting popularity - and more on-subject: cash flow - on Youtube is some super easy, slacker-mode job. Most LPers and Reviewers, aside from the already e-famous ones, don't make enough to not have a day job. Those that are at that stage have every right to get pissed when some defunct system encroaches on their pay.
Real-world jobs can do pretty much whatever the fuck they want in terms of a contract; YouTube can do whatever the fuck they want in terms of contract.
Does that make one more legitimate? No. Does that make it right or lawful? No.
If people don't get pissed, organize, and fight for better treatment.. then you'll just get run over by folks who can afford to throw money hassling you with legal teams and bogus suits.
Lot of hate for people making money off reviews and LPs.
How is it any different than the news anchors, who're literally shills that read off a pre-written prompter about topics which they've no actual involvement? The majority of the entertainment industry is people talking about / reviewing crap. This is no different, aside from the fact it's primarily internet-based.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
I watched some of the video but frankly I can't watch the whole thing or take him seriously because all he does is cuss the whole time like a child. This is not the way to gain support for your cause.
Also, I still haven't seen figures backing up what you claim are facts. How much has he made Google and how much has he potentially cost them? Why would Google be doing this if they weren't dealing with legal issues because of it? Why are there legal issues if he is truly helping developers make so much money?
There is always a cause that leads to an effect like this. Have you tried contacting Google to ask them about their new policy? What prompted it and how can "we" as providers of a value-service help them better avoid whatever it is that is forcing this policy?
I agree with you that his own IP should not be blocked, but I imagine that problem will be sorted out sooner than later. No sense getting totally bent out of shape about something that just started. Everything can change, right?
If no one gets "bent out of shape" then nothing will change, its kinda how it works. If no one gets pissed and tells them off then they will think people support them. Also for the figures, every person that watches a video on youtube that has a ad before it gives money to youtube, youtube is owned by google. so yeah he probubly has given them a ton of money. Also add in the fact that people dont tend to watch single videos on youtube they tend to branch out. So if he brought the person to the site to watch something and they click something on the related bar he is then resposible for making google even more money. we cant get figures because google doesnt release the amount it makes yearly on advertising.
Again this goes back to the what I'm suggesting...that if the partnership was truly so lucrative for all parties, why would it be such a big deal? Google might not release all the data, but I'm fairly confident that their bean-counters are sure looking at it.
That said, it doesn't even really matter because he literally has no right to make money from youtube or from Google because he is not actually an employee. Even if he were in the right regarding content, which is a subject for the lawyers to sort out, Google is under no obligation to keep their policies static forever.
IF he is in the right, then he should simply leave youtube behind and make money as his own entity where he can dictate his own rules. Since some have said that he has been working on and developing a site on his own, it seems clear to me that he needs youtube a lot more than youtube needs him.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
I watched some of the video but frankly I can't watch the whole thing or take him seriously because all he does is cuss the whole time like a child. This is not the way to gain support for your cause.
Also, I still haven't seen figures backing up what you claim are facts. How much has he made Google and how much has he potentially cost them? Why would Google be doing this if they weren't dealing with legal issues because of it? Why are there legal issues if he is truly helping developers make so much money?
There is always a cause that leads to an effect like this. Have you tried contacting Google to ask them about their new policy? What prompted it and how can "we" as providers of a value-service help them better avoid whatever it is that is forcing this policy?
I agree with you that his own IP should not be blocked, but I imagine that problem will be sorted out sooner than later. No sense getting totally bent out of shape about something that just started. Everything can change, right?
If no one gets "bent out of shape" then nothing will change, its kinda how it works. If no one gets pissed and tells them off then they will think people support them. Also for the figures, every person that watches a video on youtube that has a ad before it gives money to youtube, youtube is owned by google. so yeah he probubly has given them a ton of money. Also add in the fact that people dont tend to watch single videos on youtube they tend to branch out. So if he brought the person to the site to watch something and they click something on the related bar he is then resposible for making google even more money. we cant get figures because google doesnt release the amount it makes yearly on advertising.
Again this goes back to the what I'm suggesting...that if the partnership was truly so lucrative for all parties, why would it be such a big deal? Google might not release all the data, but I'm fairly confident that their bean-counters are sure looking at it.
That said, it doesn't even really matter because he literally has no right to make money from youtube or from Google because he is not actually an employee. Even if he were in the right regarding content, which is a subject for the lawyers to sort out, Google is under no obligation to keep their policies static forever.
IF he is in the right, then he should simply leave youtube behind and make money as his own entity where he can dictate his own rules. Since some have said that he has been working on and developing a site on his own, it seems clear to me that he needs youtube a lot more than youtube needs him.
its because Youtube is a great market. its the most well know platform to get things seen if your not working for a TV station or in Hollywood.
This will hurt them more than it helps them. bitching like this is the best option so that Youtube notices and fixes their systems. if they dont then they are gonna lose mass profits.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Comments
I'm 100% on Angry Joe's side. This is utter rubbish. The onus for proof of copyright infringement needs to be placed on the person making the claim to discourage baseless accusations. If proven correct, the person bringing the claim could be recompensed by the guilty party.
Otherwise we have companies being forced into compliance as Youtube was for fear of costly litigation.
He has every right to be as pissed off as he is, he has been making videos for a very long time. Most of his fans would like for him to continue making videos, but that will not be possible if he cannot make a living doing so. This is his living which he has earned. Alot of people are making a living off of playing games (PewDiePie) included.
In that video, you see a man being taken for every single cent and life energy that he put into his videos, and now they're being shut down for bullshit reasons, he gets youtube its views and supported youtube in a big way, and now they 're cutting him out of the picture. Can you imagine how that must feel, we're talking about the guy's living for crying out loud.
Show some respect, bro. Not Cool! AngryJoe4Life!
Twitch let's you archive as well and you can still get views through those. That works in Game Reviewers favor as well because they can live stream for that crowd as well as archive any that are reviews for people who want to check out game reviews on a not live schedule.
Truthfully with how quickly Twitch is growing I wouldn't keep my video game videos on YouTube which is flooded with billions of videos that you have to archaicly search through where as on Twitch you can click on the game you're interested in and instantly have everything else filtered out.
Welcome to planet Earth, where in the words of Gordon Geko, GREED IS GOOD!
youtube and others that do this type of thing will suffer eventually, once they remove everything that draws people to their pathetic web site! With nothing left to look at why would anybody go!
I keep thinking the same thing about FaceBook. When will it die already!?!?
All these cool social media sites are great at the start....the golden years,..then they get too big for their britches,...and gotta feed the machine. Self destructs,...new sites pop up,..one gets the honor of being 'the One',..and we start over.
I just don't buy it. Why should youtube/Google be his de facto employer? Why should they take on risk for him to make money? If he has such a "loyal" fanbase, he should have no problems switching sites, or convincing developers to pay him directly, or for him to set-up his own site and recruit his own advertising so that he can continue to make money.
Furthermore, he makes claims about how he (and others) has helped game companies to make money. Can he provide any direct evidence that a game company has profited from his work? What percentage of people watch his videos and then go out and buy the product as a direct result? Or conversely how much money has he directly cost a developer because of a bad review? How much money has he brought to Google and how much has he cost them through IP violations or lawsuits? The only person he can guarantee he is making money for is himself.
Twitch is the way to go now, the chances of becoming as popular as angry joe show or total halibut, the odds are against you. So many on Youtube are sub4subbing which is a horrendous way of getting more people to view your videos. The only way you will ever get up to a decent subscriber base is A. an already popular Youtube channel promotes you or B. Nothing else really.
It's next to impossible to be the next reviewer of anything, or get anyone to care about your minecraft series. So many others are already making gaming playthrus and so on. Twitch is the way to go, a live viewer is worth so much more than a recorded view. (Thus more money is to be made on Twitch than on Youtube) for the AVERAGE Youtuber/Streamer who is just starting out.
You will find an audience so much faster on Twitch than on Youtube. Dan is a prime example- streamed everyday and now it's paying off alot. People don't login to the stream for the game, they login to the stream for the person playing the game.
I'm sorry, but anyone who basis their career on their ability to post sites to a third-party site, where the ToS can change whenever, and doesn't have any sort of backup or contingency plan, is just an idiot. If his content is truly as good as he thinks it is, then he'll have no problem setting up his own site and hosting stuff there.
You make me like charity
An unlawful robot causing harm to people... how about that.
This whole ordeal is pretty crazy and I hope it erupts to where youtube has face the damages they have done.
1) Angry Joe does have his own site, his own forums and a place to host his own videos. He has been working hard on that VERY thing for over 2 years. That's not the point of this travesty.
2) Yes he does indeed have proof that he has helped small devs by promoting their GOOD games. They have personally thanked him for his HONEST reviews and have seen substantial exposure because of it. One example is the devs of FTL.
3) Yes he DID indeed make YouTube a lot of money considering they take a LARGE percentage of all the revenue his channel has brought in.
4) The whole point of the YouTube system in place was for the affiliate programs to protect the content users and regulate IPs and that's what they did, albeit not a good job of it, YouTube still decided to pull the plug and let the new content ID system run rampant. His OWN content is getting blocked and claimed from it. You don't see the problem there? HIS OWN INTERVIEW WITH A TOMB RAIDER DEVELOPER WAS TAKEN OFF THE MONETARY LIST. An interview in which he paid the plane ticket, hotel, equipment out of his OWN POCKET in order to put up on YouTube so he can recoup his initial investment.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
Exactly this. Also read my 2nd post on the first page from Paradox Interactives post on Reddit.
Thanks for posting all of this Badaboom, I was going to do it last night but was caught up playing Dishonored.
It's obvious some people cannot see the bigger picture here and see how destructive this is to the GOOD games out there, small indie devs, and the industry as a whole.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I just don't buy it. Why should youtube/Google be his de facto employer? Why should they take on risk for him to make money? If he has such a "loyal" fanbase, he should have no problems switching sites, or convincing developers to pay him directly, or for him to set-up his own site and recruit his own advertising so that he can continue to make money. Furthermore, he makes claims about how he (and others) has helped game companies to make money. Can he provide any direct evidence that a game company has profited from his work? What percentage of people watch his videos and then go out and buy the product as a direct result? Or conversely how much money has he directly cost a developer because of a bad review? How much money has he brought to Google and how much has he cost them through IP violations or lawsuits? The only person he can guarantee he is making money for is himself.
1) Angry Joe does have his own site, his own forums and a place to host his own videos. He has been working hard on that VERY thing for over 2 years. That's not the point of this travesty.
2) Yes he does indeed have proof that he has helped small devs by promoting their GOOD games. They have personally thanked him for his HONEST reviews and have seen substantial exposure because of it. One example is the devs of FTL.
3) Yes he DID indeed make YouTube a lot of money considering they take a LARGE percentage of all the revenue his channel has brought in.
4) The whole point of the YouTube system in place was for the affiliate programs to protect the content users and regulate IPs and that's what they did, albeit not a good job of it, YouTube still decided to pull the plug and let the new content ID system run rampant. His OWN content is getting blocked and claimed from it. You don't see the problem there? HIS OWN INTERVIEW WITH A TOMB RAIDER DEVELOPER WAS TAKEN OFF THE MONETARY LIST. An interview in which he paid the plane ticket, hotel, equipment out of his OWN POCKET in order to put up on YouTube so he can recoup his initial investment.
Do yourself a favor, actually watch the video before you decide to talk about something you have no idea about. It's embarassing for yourself. And if you don't want to watch the video, what are you doing in this thread to begin with?
The argument that he's doing good can be made by the large content owners who are sending the complaints to Youtube as well, only on a much larger scale. They employ far more people than he has helped, so they do more good for the economy and society.
He's not doing any of the stuff he's doing for altruism. He was getting paid to do it. He's mad because he's not getting paid. Not because he won't get to do all his good deeds.
He's angry at the greed driving the decision that prevents him from engaging in his own act of greed. Being the small guy doesn't make his behavior any more moral than being the big guys makes the content owners evil.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
He already owns a website for those who are apart of his community, and he does host his own stuff and has plenty of awesome things on the angryjoeshow website.
This link pretty much sums up my replies (14:00 - 21:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JqjDhuPFaQ to both of you.
You're picking on Joe, this isn't just about him as he isn't the only youtuber (Gameplay Reviewer/Playthru) who is getting screwed. Again watch that video as it will bring a little light to you.
Total-Halibut covers you! ...REPENT! Lol
I watched some of the video but frankly I can't watch the whole thing or take him seriously because all he does is cuss the whole time like a child. This is not the way to gain support for your cause.
Also, I still haven't seen figures backing up what you claim are facts. How much has he made Google and how much has he potentially cost them? Why would Google be doing this if they weren't dealing with legal issues because of it? Why are there legal issues if he is truly helping developers make so much money?
There is always a cause that leads to an effect like this. Have you tried contacting Google to ask them about their new policy? What prompted it and how can "we" as providers of a value-service help them better avoid whatever it is that is forcing this policy?
I agree with you that his own IP should not be blocked, but I imagine that problem will be sorted out sooner than later. No sense getting totally bent out of shape about something that just started. Everything can change, right?
I'm not sure on why some people just don't get it? Maybe they are jealous that someone can be earning a living doing something that they love?
Whats important though is if the content providers cannot provide the content, then it will be the viewers who suffer because their will be fewer things to see.
You should watch the video, and the other couple of videos posted in this thread before you start talking about something you know very little about. At the very least it may give you some more insight while not completely changing your opinion.
People like Joe just sound so entitled.
youtube used to be just a video hosting site, people used to make videos JUST because they loved the content they created. then, youtube introduced the notion for hobbists of being able to make a few bucks off your content provided you get enough views and likes.
Well of course, some people thought they could take it to the extreme and try to 'live' off the profits they made from youtube, a source of living that has no job security or formal contracts in case of change of agreement or termination.
If youtube ended the partnership program tomorrow, what would he do? kick and scream 'they cant do this they are destroying my lively hood'?
People like joe, almost sound like they are business entity's, but they are not. they are contracted by google (ie they are workers)to generate interest/traffic for adds. except you don't get the same deals and conditions as if you worked for a 'real' employer.
Defining: "Get a real job" - a job which has job security, worker rights and employers accountable by law.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If no one gets "bent out of shape" then nothing will change, its kinda how it works. If no one gets pissed and tells them off then they will think people support them. Also for the figures, every person that watches a video on youtube that has a ad before it gives money to youtube, youtube is owned by google. so yeah he probubly has given them a ton of money. Also add in the fact that people dont tend to watch single videos on youtube they tend to branch out. So if he brought the person to the site to watch something and they click something on the related bar he is then resposible for making google even more money. we cant get figures because google doesnt release the amount it makes yearly on advertising.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I think the courts, when pressed, will side with the reviews.
This is functionally no different than movie reviews and those have been going sine the dawn of motion pictures. And with no charges of copyright infringement or anything else. Does anyone think that the reviewers of movies or TV don't get paid?
To suddenly say: "No... these reviews of video game stuff are something entirely new and different..." does not pass the smell test.
Just seems to be the corporate interests pushing as far as they can, until someone pushes back.
Your also missing filmakers who are attempting to get into the buisness via youtube. Given how things currently are Indie films make little over the amount it costs to make the bloody movie, and hollywood doesnt take you seriously until you do several profitable films. Now if you cant make a profitable film in the indie section (baring extreme examples) how do you move up in the filmaking industry. Youtube, Vimeo, etc.
Youtube is great for getting noticed, while making a return on your video. Without it in the modern day market we would lose our film industry over afew generations. With it we can garentee that new blood enters the industry.
Also just so you know, your Definition of a real job is laughable. I work in film making and we work 3 to 4 times as hard as any of your people with "Real Jobs"
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Humorous how people are acting like getting popularity - and more on-subject: cash flow - on Youtube is some super easy, slacker-mode job. Most LPers and Reviewers, aside from the already e-famous ones, don't make enough to not have a day job. Those that are at that stage have every right to get pissed when some defunct system encroaches on their pay.
Real-world jobs can do pretty much whatever the fuck they want in terms of a contract; YouTube can do whatever the fuck they want in terms of contract.
Does that make one more legitimate? No. Does that make it right or lawful? No.
If people don't get pissed, organize, and fight for better treatment.. then you'll just get run over by folks who can afford to throw money hassling you with legal teams and bogus suits.
Lot of hate for people making money off reviews and LPs.
How is it any different than the news anchors, who're literally shills that read off a pre-written prompter about topics which they've no actual involvement? The majority of the entertainment industry is people talking about / reviewing crap. This is no different, aside from the fact it's primarily internet-based.
Again this goes back to the what I'm suggesting...that if the partnership was truly so lucrative for all parties, why would it be such a big deal? Google might not release all the data, but I'm fairly confident that their bean-counters are sure looking at it.
That said, it doesn't even really matter because he literally has no right to make money from youtube or from Google because he is not actually an employee. Even if he were in the right regarding content, which is a subject for the lawyers to sort out, Google is under no obligation to keep their policies static forever.
IF he is in the right, then he should simply leave youtube behind and make money as his own entity where he can dictate his own rules. Since some have said that he has been working on and developing a site on his own, it seems clear to me that he needs youtube a lot more than youtube needs him.
its because Youtube is a great market. its the most well know platform to get things seen if your not working for a TV station or in Hollywood.
This will hurt them more than it helps them. bitching like this is the best option so that Youtube notices and fixes their systems. if they dont then they are gonna lose mass profits.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.