We NEED these corporate cash-grab MMOs to fail. Once they become poison to investors, they will stop being made, and the genre will flourish and see true innovation.
It's a no brainer... this is another game trying to get both PvP and PvE crowds on board, trying to offer "everything" for different type of players and it's not gonna end up well...
From the beginning this game was focusing with the 3-faction war in Cyrodiil. I am not a PvP fan, but Zenimax should have focused on Cyrodiil and leave the other provinces out of the game. TES fans are waiting for TES VI, where they will be able to really explore both on surface and underwater places with the characters they want to play.
It's a no brainer... this is another game trying to get both PvP and PvE crowds on board, trying to offer "everything" for different type of players and it's not gonna end up well...
From the beginning this game was focusing with the 3-faction war in Cyrodiil. I am not a PvP fan, but Zenimax should have focused on Cyrodiil and leave the other provinces out of the game. TES fans are waiting for TES VI, where they will be able to really explore both on surface and underwater places with the characters they want to play.
i disagree with you... a themepark mmo needs to have some sort of end game pvp component if it wants longevity and 3-way-pvp works the best.
sure the adventure zone with elite dungeons and somewhere on the horizon maybe raids (altough not planned i think) is also good to please the pve crowd but it will get stale and the players - as in every mmo ever made - will rush through the content much faster than they can produce it - therefore you need end game pvp...
I think they may be right. TESO brings nothing new to the table other than their IP. Quest hub grinding to max level then 3 faction pvp? Sounds like guild wars 2, and I already have that game.
If you really think GW2 is a good example of 3 faction PvP I feel sorry for you friend.
Guildwars mirrored class 3 "server" affair was disgusting. I feel sorry for him too...
Originally posted by TerminalDeity We NEED these corporate cash-grab MMOs to fail. Once they become poison to investors, they will stop being made, and the genre will flourish and see true innovation.
that makes no sense. the low budget indie mmo's will be made regardless of the success or failures of big budget games.
no company is going to spend lots of money on something that isn't going to return their investment.
there will just be less mmo's being made and all of them being small budget niche games, games being made either way.
Ya, it does seem to be an odd new category that sites have been promoting. I'm not sure what the gain is from determining this ahead of time, and/or what they will achieve from it. I can see Forbes possibly taking an interest in it, but Massively? It is like if Ford posted it's 2014 Focus will fail. Why would a game website want to predict a failure? It seems like the publicity would hurt the title and relations with the developer and the publisher.
Stock play. Zenimax is privately held and MIGHT be in position to pull down some very large earnings with TESO. Either way it will bring a lot of news.
Make ripples in the water, and other game company stocks (publicly traded ones) will move. Not to mention stocks for console manufacturers.
Hurting the title is only the direct effect. Indirectly, there's money to be made. At least that's my guess.
Then again, maybe someone with lots of money wants it to fail. They might be trying to poison the water before it enters the race. However, I find this somewhat unlikely. I don't see that Forbes readers are likely to be buyers of the game, but it might be intended to indicate that the game is not something to be viewed in a good light.
I wouldn't rule out any possible motivation, especially if it involves money.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by BetaguyOriginally posted by kitaradDid EA come out and say SWTOR is a failure ? You said game producers consider it a failure. Would you please link where EA has said that about SWTOR.
Kit, I wouldn't dwell on it to much or spend too much time thinking about it. It is not a failure by any means, it is not what most people wanted, however there is many who do enjoy it and it is a success by any definition regardless what the doom n gloomer's say here.It was a massive financial failure - the game cost exceeded $300 million, they anticipated over 10mil subs - this didn't happen.
The game underperformed badly, it led to a complete dissolution of Bioware Austin into EA.
Successful games retain their studios, SWTOR is the biggest financial MMORPG failure yet.
They wanted ten million subs, but had plans in place for 300k to 500k subs. That's not failure, that's a rational approach to a very risky business.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ok, ESO is a better game than Swtor. Let's get that out the way right now.
There is 3 months gameplay minimum straight out the box with ESO. Slower leveling and a much deeper skill system. This is coming from crazy hour gamer. I can't speak beyond that, because I don't know.
Will ESO go f2p? Most likely, although having more depth in combat and skills than 2013 AAA's (except AoW) mmorpgs will slow that process.
If Cyrodill is a real game world not just a glorified battle ground, ESO will thrive, and be the biggest money maker since WoW.
It will be a lot better than SWTOR for sure, that can be seen easily from gameplay footage already, so it won´t fail as hard as SWTOR.
No one can beat the level of fail that SWTOR was, not even TESO. But it will switch to buy to play and paid DLCs soon after launch, probably similiar to TSW which is running great now and has lots of players.
Yeah SWTOR is a probably fail even though it has more players than TSW (the game which sold few thousand copies at release and went B2P faster than kardashian drops her panties) can ever dream to have. But hey i forgot honesty and prudent thinking two characteristics SWTOR bashers do not posses.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Leave it to mmorpg.com to be completely taken in by ESOs crap. Everyone who's played beta including myself know that the combat is GOD AWFUL and the quests aren't any good either. Those caves you love to explore in skyrim? full of turds running around slaying everything the second it spawns. The cool little mini stories that come with quests? not cool in the least, more annoying than anything.
Originally posted by Carl132p Leave it to mmorpg.com to be completely taken in by ESOs crap. Everyone who's played beta including myself know that the combat is GOD AWFUL and the quests aren't any good either. Those caves you love to explore in skyrim? full of turds running around slaying everything the second it spawns. The cool little mini stories that come with quests? not cool in the least, more annoying than anything.
So you are trying to tell us who haven't played the game that we should just take your word for it and start believing that game is awful?
Sorry but i like to make my own opinions and decisions. Obviously not everyone is going to like the game, which is expected and is a very natural thing. And i don't think you are in position to speak on behalf of 'every one' who has played the beta.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Realy surprising a website like forbes would post an article as stupid as this, this kind of thing can lead to self fulfilling prophecies.
This article could be seen as damaging of an upcoming title, I wouldn't be surprised if legal action was possible.
It's not written as someone that has played the title, it's not written as a review of a released product, it's not even written by someone that knows what they are talking about or has much knowledge of the mmo genre.
I expect this kind of nonsense from a biased website like massively but Forbes? Surprising.
It's a no brainer... this is another game trying to get both PvP and PvE crowds on board, trying to offer "everything" for different type of players and it's not gonna end up well...
From the beginning this game was focusing with the 3-faction war in Cyrodiil. I am not a PvP fan, but Zenimax should have focused on Cyrodiil and leave the other provinces out of the game. TES fans are waiting for TES VI, where they will be able to really explore both on surface and underwater places with the characters they want to play.
Except it's not offering "everything". Where is the endgame raiding PvE? 4 man is the max group size. I can't really comment on the beta, but even then they seem to be struggling with letting people play together.
There isn't going to be any PvE content in the endgame that players won't consume in less than a month. Whether you love it or hate it, raiding endgame is needed to sustain a PvE "themepark" MMO in the long run. The 3 faction PvP will be fun for sure, but it will get old fast for a lot of people as it did in GW2 since it's essentially doing the same thing over and over again each day.
On a side note, I also laugh at people calling GW2 a failure. That game made NCSoft lots of money.
Ya, it does seem to be an odd new category that sites have been promoting. I'm not sure what the gain is from determining this ahead of time, and/or what they will achieve from it. I can see Forbes possibly taking an interest in it, but Massively? It is like if Ford posted it's 2014 Focus will fail. Why would a game website want to predict a failure? It seems like the publicity would hurt the title and relations with the developer and the publisher.
Stock play. Zenimax is privately held and MIGHT be in position to pull down some very large earnings with TESO. Either way it will bring a lot of news.
Make ripples in the water, and other game company stocks (publicly traded ones) will move. Not to mention stocks for console manufacturers.
Hurting the title is only the direct effect. Indirectly, there's money to be made. At least that's my guess.
Then again, maybe someone with lots of money wants it to fail. They might be trying to poison the water before it enters the race. However, I find this somewhat unlikely. I don't see that Forbes readers are likely to be buyers of the game, but it might be intended to indicate that the game is not something to be viewed in a good light.
I wouldn't rule out any possible motivation, especially if it involves money.
Holy tinfoil, batman. Did you guys even bother to click the link? It's an opinion piece by contributor Paul Tassi. It isn't "Forbes", it's one of their bloggers.
Do I think Tassi is right? Actually, if $200M is a real number then I think he's spot on. However, the uninformed craziness that this particular blog posts is the machinations of a multi-million dollar economic magazine empire pulling the puppet strings of the gaming industry is just ridiculous.
Get informed. Read about a writer and actually read their work before slapping at keys to suggest they have an unethical agenda or are on the take. ZombieKen, you're not a Millenial. You know how to do research. That post was below you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't see this game doing as well as people think, mainly because I've tried it. I won't break nda but I will say Elder Scroll fans that actually read the lore books in world and like the elder scrolls lore and world will not be very happy with this game. As well it plays nothing like the franchise it's based on, and you can get that from videos.
Realy surprising a website like forbes would post an article as stupid as this, this kind of thing can lead to self fulfilling prophecies.
This article could be seen as damaging of an upcoming title, I wouldn't be surprised if legal action was possible.
It's not written as someone that has played the title, it's not written as a review of a released product, it's not even written by someone that knows what they are talking about or has much knowledge of the mmo genre.
I expect this kind of nonsense from a biased website like massively but Forbes? Surprising.
It's written as an opinion article and analysis of the market. What legal action . . . libel? They'd have to prove that Forbes lied and had negative intent, neither of which is at all possible here.
For what Forbes was publishing, playing the game isn't necessary. It's someone's view of the market, the brand, and the business model. The piece is also published as a piece of guesswork, and acknowledges that the budget figure they're quoting is far from confirmed.
Maybe I'm biased because I tend to agree with their points. From the little time I had in TESO beta (NDA violation, omg!) the game is fine but not worth a sub imo. It's about the quality of GW2, which has it's fans and detractors, but fundamentally approached the market differently by being B2P and using boosts and cosmetic items in their cash shop.
I have a feeling that if Bethesda/Zenimax had gone the same direction with TESO we'd all be excited. So you risk your $50 on a box, but then can come back to the game any time to see how they've improved it. The sub model fundamentally raises the stakes and I think will prove to be a big mistake.
Makes sense seeing the history of late. The article would be taking more of a risk saying ESO would succeed without even looking at facts. I await to see how the actual game is regardless of payment model. The payment model is a complaint outside of the actual game play and it is starting to get old hearing that as the primary complaint for why the game will fail. ESO dropping their NDA will make things interesting finally.
It is not the mmo model I want but still hope it's good enough for a distraction. 2014 will be an interesting year for the genre. It will be a year where big budget traditionally made mmos are released along side the first waves of kickstarter mmos all trying different approaches (or old approaches perhaps). 2015-16 will be even more interesting imo. Just seeing companies try new things and seeing what sticks to the wall is vastly more interesting that what has transpired in the last few years.
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If FFXIV can keep a solid player base any game can. I imagine this game will be awful but will still sell enough to make their money.
It's a no brainer... this is another game trying to get both PvP and PvE crowds on board, trying to offer "everything" for different type of players and it's not gonna end up well...
From the beginning this game was focusing with the 3-faction war in Cyrodiil. I am not a PvP fan, but Zenimax should have focused on Cyrodiil and leave the other provinces out of the game. TES fans are waiting for TES VI, where they will be able to really explore both on surface and underwater places with the characters they want to play.
don't care how much a game costs to make, only if i enjoy playing it or not.
i disagree with you... a themepark mmo needs to have some sort of end game pvp component if it wants longevity and 3-way-pvp works the best.
sure the adventure zone with elite dungeons and somewhere on the horizon maybe raids (altough not planned i think) is also good to please the pve crowd but it will get stale and the players - as in every mmo ever made - will rush through the content much faster than they can produce it - therefore you need end game pvp...
Guildwars mirrored class 3 "server" affair was disgusting. I feel sorry for him too...
that makes no sense. the low budget indie mmo's will be made regardless of the success or failures of big budget games.
no company is going to spend lots of money on something that isn't going to return their investment.
there will just be less mmo's being made and all of them being small budget niche games, games being made either way.
Stock play. Zenimax is privately held and MIGHT be in position to pull down some very large earnings with TESO. Either way it will bring a lot of news.
Make ripples in the water, and other game company stocks (publicly traded ones) will move. Not to mention stocks for console manufacturers.
Hurting the title is only the direct effect. Indirectly, there's money to be made. At least that's my guess.
Then again, maybe someone with lots of money wants it to fail. They might be trying to poison the water before it enters the race. However, I find this somewhat unlikely. I don't see that Forbes readers are likely to be buyers of the game, but it might be intended to indicate that the game is not something to be viewed in a good light.
I wouldn't rule out any possible motivation, especially if it involves money.
It was a massive financial failure - the game cost exceeded $300 million, they anticipated over 10mil subs - this didn't happen.
The game underperformed badly, it led to a complete dissolution of Bioware Austin into EA.
Successful games retain their studios, SWTOR is the biggest financial MMORPG failure yet.
They wanted ten million subs, but had plans in place for 300k to 500k subs. That's not failure, that's a rational approach to a very risky business.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ok, ESO is a better game than Swtor. Let's get that out the way right now.
There is 3 months gameplay minimum straight out the box with ESO. Slower leveling and a much deeper skill system. This is coming from crazy hour gamer. I can't speak beyond that, because I don't know.
Will ESO go f2p? Most likely, although having more depth in combat and skills than 2013 AAA's (except AoW) mmorpgs will slow that process.
If Cyrodill is a real game world not just a glorified battle ground, ESO will thrive, and be the biggest money maker since WoW.
Yeah SWTOR is a probably fail even though it has more players than TSW (the game which sold few thousand copies at release and went B2P faster than kardashian drops her panties) can ever dream to have. But hey i forgot honesty and prudent thinking two characteristics SWTOR bashers do not posses.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
So you are trying to tell us who haven't played the game that we should just take your word for it and start believing that game is awful?
Sorry but i like to make my own opinions and decisions. Obviously not everyone is going to like the game, which is expected and is a very natural thing. And i don't think you are in position to speak on behalf of 'every one' who has played the beta.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Realy surprising a website like forbes would post an article as stupid as this, this kind of thing can lead to self fulfilling prophecies.
This article could be seen as damaging of an upcoming title, I wouldn't be surprised if legal action was possible.
It's not written as someone that has played the title, it's not written as a review of a released product, it's not even written by someone that knows what they are talking about or has much knowledge of the mmo genre.
I expect this kind of nonsense from a biased website like massively but Forbes? Surprising.
Except it's not offering "everything". Where is the endgame raiding PvE? 4 man is the max group size. I can't really comment on the beta, but even then they seem to be struggling with letting people play together.
There isn't going to be any PvE content in the endgame that players won't consume in less than a month. Whether you love it or hate it, raiding endgame is needed to sustain a PvE "themepark" MMO in the long run. The 3 faction PvP will be fun for sure, but it will get old fast for a lot of people as it did in GW2 since it's essentially doing the same thing over and over again each day.
On a side note, I also laugh at people calling GW2 a failure. That game made NCSoft lots of money.
Holy tinfoil, batman. Did you guys even bother to click the link? It's an opinion piece by contributor Paul Tassi. It isn't "Forbes", it's one of their bloggers.
Do I think Tassi is right? Actually, if $200M is a real number then I think he's spot on. However, the uninformed craziness that this particular blog posts is the machinations of a multi-million dollar economic magazine empire pulling the puppet strings of the gaming industry is just ridiculous.
Get informed. Read about a writer and actually read their work before slapping at keys to suggest they have an unethical agenda or are on the take. ZombieKen, you're not a Millenial. You know how to do research. That post was below you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Paul Tassi and his glory moments...
Poor guy is beyond hopeless.
It's written as an opinion article and analysis of the market. What legal action . . . libel? They'd have to prove that Forbes lied and had negative intent, neither of which is at all possible here.
For what Forbes was publishing, playing the game isn't necessary. It's someone's view of the market, the brand, and the business model. The piece is also published as a piece of guesswork, and acknowledges that the budget figure they're quoting is far from confirmed.
Maybe I'm biased because I tend to agree with their points. From the little time I had in TESO beta (NDA violation, omg!) the game is fine but not worth a sub imo. It's about the quality of GW2, which has it's fans and detractors, but fundamentally approached the market differently by being B2P and using boosts and cosmetic items in their cash shop.
I have a feeling that if Bethesda/Zenimax had gone the same direction with TESO we'd all be excited. So you risk your $50 on a box, but then can come back to the game any time to see how they've improved it. The sub model fundamentally raises the stakes and I think will prove to be a big mistake.
Makes sense seeing the history of late. The article would be taking more of a risk saying ESO would succeed without even looking at facts. I await to see how the actual game is regardless of payment model. The payment model is a complaint outside of the actual game play and it is starting to get old hearing that as the primary complaint for why the game will fail. ESO dropping their NDA will make things interesting finally.
It is not the mmo model I want but still hope it's good enough for a distraction. 2014 will be an interesting year for the genre. It will be a year where big budget traditionally made mmos are released along side the first waves of kickstarter mmos all trying different approaches (or old approaches perhaps). 2015-16 will be even more interesting imo. Just seeing companies try new things and seeing what sticks to the wall is vastly more interesting that what has transpired in the last few years.
You stay sassy!