Originally posted by sunandshadow No - I love housing and crafting, but there shouldn't be any way in which all MMOs are the same.
That's my thought, too. If an MMO wants these features in it, by all means put them in and concentrate on making them good and fun. By no means should they be in every MMO.
Even here, there are quite a few ways to implement these specific features. Would they all have to be the same, too? I certainly hope not.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Phoebes I don't like housing in MMO's. It removes players from central locations, like cities and trade areas, and makes the world seem more desolate.
It doesn't have to. My MMO design that I described over in the Developer's corner has portable housing, which can be set up in particular fields, which are mainly just outside NPC cities. Crafting must take place in one's house, so these fields are communal crafting areas. Any game which had tent-like housing or ship housing could do something similar, with logged-in players who want to use their housing congregating at social camping fields or docks.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I dislike both housing and crafting. But that's just me.
-Mongoose
I dislike Crafting unless it is tied into enchanting and augmenting existing loot in much the same way that Asheron's Call and Path of Exile does crafting.
Housing on the other hand is 100% needed for me to get full enjoyment out of an MMO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I'm probably in the minority on th is, but my answer is mostly no.
I think crafting and housing (and other side professions like fishing) shouldn't be worked on until the rest of the game is polished and ready for release. MMO's have a hard enough time getting released in a workable and on time state that I wonder how much dev hours were wasted on extra stuff that's really only interesting if the game takes off in the first place.
Studios are just spending too much time trying to make sure they can advertise a large bullet list of features, to the point that none of the features actually get completed.
Originally posted by Phoebes I don't like housing in MMO's. It removes players from central locations, like cities and trade areas, and makes the world seem more desolate.
This.
Crafting on the other hand is essential in a MMORGP. It brings people together in various ways, whether it's in the blacksmith, out in the wild gathering materials or near the market to sell your preciously crafted items/gathered materials.
I dislike both housing and crafting. But that's just me.
-Mongoose
For the most part I agree with you. I hate crafting because it's usually just collecting bits and pressing a button. Unless I can create something "somewhat" unique or at least have a hand in the look of the item, it's not really much of anything other than a "duplicator" process.
Having said that, games should have crafting if it's going to be important throughout the game. In Lord of the Rings Online it's very difficult to find lower/mid range gear for alts because there is no call for it. There needs to be a way to remove gear from the game.
As far as housing I would say "yes" but again, only if the housing system is robust BUT doesn't empty the cities. If everyone is in their own house, in their own guild house, then there is no reason for cities.
Large empty cities are a waste of effort and space in that case.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Crafting, to some degree, yes. A lot of people want way too much crafting or crafting that is way too important. The ability to make and improve weapons, gear, etc., yes, all MMOs ought to have that.
As for housing, probably not. If that housing had some actual in-game use, I'd be fine with it but in most games, it's just a way to stroke one's ego and show off. Fuck that. If it was a way that helped the player actually play the game better, great. Otherwise, pass.
Housing in all games I have played are just poorly designed for the reasons you have just mentioned. Its not problem inherit with 'housing' per se just developers lack of vision
It's actually a problem with a huge percentage of people who want housing. They want it to be an obnoxious dick-waving opportunity. All they want to do is make it a shrine to themselves. Fuck those people.
incorrect.
Several things here
1. Housing and crafting do not and basically should not be as they are in most AAA games. A crafting engine like Eve, Fallen Earth or Wurm is much more innovative. The beauty of this technology is that a crafting engine is not hard coded into the hardware, we (society) can designed it anyway we want.
2. People I know think housing in most MMOs is silly. We still do it but its silly.
3. a vast majority of people have a hard time understanding an 'idea' they have to experience it in order to understand it and see what future can happen.
4. If the focus of crafting is to make things look better then its a f*ckward game engine, not a crafting engine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Redcor Aye, they should offer both. People that are not into it do not have to take part. While people that enjoy crafting and building/decorating should have that available.
for example on a system that could work for both.
Making a house and or items for the house might get you some bonus for combat if you 'sleep' (aka log out in a bed). and said house could be rented to players who dont like crafting for cash
It was weird, back when I played Anarchy Online, I almost always logged out in my "house". Actually, I logged out in the closet, just because there was no bedroom and the ability to do anything real in your house was very limited. It was a place to store stuff, that was it.
The painful problem is that so many of you equate crafting or housing with only that which you have experienced in a game before. Not, how it could be much better.
Take Wurm for example, it has a crafting engine built basically by one guy that is better than any of the crafting engines on the market today AAA or not.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
when crafting is treated as an almost exluded part of the rest of the game, then can as well leave it out, but imo yes MMOs should have both crafting and housing, but if not made a part of the game, then well dont waste your time devs...
It's quite disheartening to see that people can only imagine MMO's which revolve around 'swords' and 'elves' getting to 'level up' nowadays. There's other kinds of MMO's you can make, just sad that no one tried to leave that little corner of the box they're in
It's quite disheartening to see that people can only imagine MMO's which revolve around 'swords' and 'elves' getting to 'level up' nowadays. There's other kinds of MMO's you can make, just sad that no one tried to leave that little corner of the box they're in
I think in almost all things, we are not at a point in society where spending and energy to keep things behind the curve will be more risky then trying to stay ahead of the curve.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't play games for housing nor crafting, and i doubt i am the only one.
Have you ever purchased buffs via potions/food that someone else crafted or gear?
Or did you ever harvest materials and sell those to someone else to craft with?
If so, even though you didn't make it you saw a reason for it maybe.
I think of it like a circle for those who don't want to craft - you can sell materials to those that do and they can sell you back finished items.
Sometimes i do. But that is not the point. If the whole crafting system is gone tomorrow, i don't think i will miss it. In fact, i won't do gathering, and focus on combat, if that is the case.
Originally posted by Redcor Aye, they should offer both. People that are not into it do not have to take part. While people that enjoy crafting and building/decorating should have that available.
for example on a system that could work for both.
Making a house and or items for the house might get you some bonus for combat if you 'sleep' (aka log out in a bed). and said house could be rented to players who dont like crafting for cash
It was weird, back when I played Anarchy Online, I almost always logged out in my "house". Actually, I logged out in the closet, just because there was no bedroom and the ability to do anything real in your house was very limited. It was a place to store stuff, that was it.
The painful problem is that so many of you equate crafting or housing with only that which you have experienced in a game before. Not, how it could be much better.
Take Wurm for example, it has a crafting engine built basically by one guy that is better than any of the crafting engines on the market today AAA or not.
Just the ones that like RPG in the term mmoRPG to mean something. The f2P cash shop nightmare will take the road more traveled.
Why is this important?
Because MMORPGS used to be about feeling like I was leaving the real world behind for a short while (immersion). One way to get a player to feel this is by letting them invest time into producing something in game and creating something otherwise that literally gives them a home from home.
Housing, crafting, etc., are parts of the equation that mmorpgs have been missing for some time now. The folks that belittle this stuff probably never played EQ or Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call. Heck, I believe that in LOTRO you could actually pick the music you wanted the player to hear when they entered your house...how cool is that?
I love both crafting and housing. In fact, I won't play a game if it does not have crafting. Housing is great, but not a requirement. I am happy with a nice sized bank.
However, not all games should have crafting and housing. Games should be built for the market the developers wish to attract and not all gamers want or need crafting or housing. Much depends on the game itself.
Just the ones that like RPG in the term mmoRPG to mean something. The f2P cash shop nightmare will take the road more traveled.
Why is this important?
Because MMORPGS used to be about feeling like I was leaving the real world behind for a short while (immersion). One way to get a player to feel this is by letting them invest time into producing something in game and creating something otherwise that literally gives them a home from home.
Housing, crafting, etc., are parts of the equation that mmorpgs have been missing for some time now. The folks that belittle this stuff probably never played EQ or Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call. Heck, I believe that in LOTRO you could actually pick the music you wanted the player to hear when they entered your house...how cool is that?
Many people have a very limited view of what housing can become interesting.
The only reason why housing would be 'isolating' as some players see it is because of poor game design.
I am currently playing Wurm which has no instance housing, and player made villages. So last month I was a member of a village with other players, this month I built myself a cabin in the woods. Next I plan to build a large city on the bay and have people over for boat races.
All this by basically 1 guy. The devs he has now are just for graphics updates and the new expansion.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Just provide housing in mmo's, make them beneficial to have for certain reasons, but still entirely optional and not game breaking to go without.
Housing used to be great, but then everything changed when the themeparks attacked.
yup...
its totally possible and borderline 'easy' to have a crafting/housing engine that is both optional and provides real dependency between the two play styles. Why so many companies struggle with this is beyond me.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Crafting? Yes. Housing? I don't really give a crap. I don't have a problem with it, and it serves the purpose of being a time sink, but it's not essential to an MMO. It's just an added feature/mini-game as far as I'm concerned.
It's a huge resource sink, housing or crafting, and each is exclusive of the other so please don't ask a loaded question combing the two. In any event they can potentially boost revenues via a shop and properly run would not interfere with those who choose not to participate.
Comments
Even here, there are quite a few ways to implement these specific features. Would they all have to be the same, too? I certainly hope not.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
It doesn't have to. My MMO design that I described over in the Developer's corner has portable housing, which can be set up in particular fields, which are mainly just outside NPC cities. Crafting must take place in one's house, so these fields are communal crafting areas. Any game which had tent-like housing or ship housing could do something similar, with logged-in players who want to use their housing congregating at social camping fields or docks.
I dislike Crafting unless it is tied into enchanting and augmenting existing loot in much the same way that Asheron's Call and Path of Exile does crafting.
Housing on the other hand is 100% needed for me to get full enjoyment out of an MMO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I'm probably in the minority on th is, but my answer is mostly no.
I think crafting and housing (and other side professions like fishing) shouldn't be worked on until the rest of the game is polished and ready for release. MMO's have a hard enough time getting released in a workable and on time state that I wonder how much dev hours were wasted on extra stuff that's really only interesting if the game takes off in the first place.
Studios are just spending too much time trying to make sure they can advertise a large bullet list of features, to the point that none of the features actually get completed.
You make me like charity
This.
Crafting on the other hand is essential in a MMORGP. It brings people together in various ways, whether it's in the blacksmith, out in the wild gathering materials or near the market to sell your preciously crafted items/gathered materials.
-Kirrik
For the most part I agree with you. I hate crafting because it's usually just collecting bits and pressing a button. Unless I can create something "somewhat" unique or at least have a hand in the look of the item, it's not really much of anything other than a "duplicator" process.
Having said that, games should have crafting if it's going to be important throughout the game. In Lord of the Rings Online it's very difficult to find lower/mid range gear for alts because there is no call for it. There needs to be a way to remove gear from the game.
As far as housing I would say "yes" but again, only if the housing system is robust BUT doesn't empty the cities. If everyone is in their own house, in their own guild house, then there is no reason for cities.
Large empty cities are a waste of effort and space in that case.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
incorrect.
Several things here
1. Housing and crafting do not and basically should not be as they are in most AAA games. A crafting engine like Eve, Fallen Earth or Wurm is much more innovative. The beauty of this technology is that a crafting engine is not hard coded into the hardware, we (society) can designed it anyway we want.
2. People I know think housing in most MMOs is silly. We still do it but its silly.
3. a vast majority of people have a hard time understanding an 'idea' they have to experience it in order to understand it and see what future can happen.
4. If the focus of crafting is to make things look better then its a f*ckward game engine, not a crafting engine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
The painful problem is that so many of you equate crafting or housing with only that which you have experienced in a game before. Not, how it could be much better.
Take Wurm for example, it has a crafting engine built basically by one guy that is better than any of the crafting engines on the market today AAA or not.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Crafting: Maybe.
Housing: No, not all.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Depends on the type of MMO...
It's quite disheartening to see that people can only imagine MMO's which revolve around 'swords' and 'elves' getting to 'level up' nowadays. There's other kinds of MMO's you can make, just sad that no one tried to leave that little corner of the box they're in
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
No, all MMO's should not have a housing/crafting system.
But my money would end up in the hands of the developer that has both of these in a immersive manner (no, instanced is not immersive).
I think in almost all things, we are not at a point in society where spending and energy to keep things behind the curve will be more risky then trying to stay ahead of the curve.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Sometimes i do. But that is not the point. If the whole crafting system is gone tomorrow, i don't think i will miss it. In fact, i won't do gathering, and focus on combat, if that is the case.
In your opinion, of course.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Just the ones that like RPG in the term mmoRPG to mean something. The f2P cash shop nightmare will take the road more traveled.
Why is this important?
Because MMORPGS used to be about feeling like I was leaving the real world behind for a short while (immersion). One way to get a player to feel this is by letting them invest time into producing something in game and creating something otherwise that literally gives them a home from home.
Housing, crafting, etc., are parts of the equation that mmorpgs have been missing for some time now. The folks that belittle this stuff probably never played EQ or Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call. Heck, I believe that in LOTRO you could actually pick the music you wanted the player to hear when they entered your house...how cool is that?
I love both crafting and housing. In fact, I won't play a game if it does not have crafting. Housing is great, but not a requirement. I am happy with a nice sized bank.
However, not all games should have crafting and housing. Games should be built for the market the developers wish to attract and not all gamers want or need crafting or housing. Much depends on the game itself.
Many people have a very limited view of what housing can become interesting.
The only reason why housing would be 'isolating' as some players see it is because of poor game design.
I am currently playing Wurm which has no instance housing, and player made villages. So last month I was a member of a village with other players, this month I built myself a cabin in the woods. Next I plan to build a large city on the bay and have people over for boat races.
All this by basically 1 guy. The devs he has now are just for graphics updates and the new expansion.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Just provide housing in mmo's, make them beneficial to have for certain reasons, but still entirely optional and not game breaking to go without.
Housing used to be great, but then everything changed when the themeparks attacked.
yup...
its totally possible and borderline 'easy' to have a crafting/housing engine that is both optional and provides real dependency between the two play styles. Why so many companies struggle with this is beyond me.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I concur
IMVPO yes. In MMOs without housing I always felt "not at home". *shrug*
I liked the EQ2 and the SWG housing the best.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert