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Some Criticisms of the Kickstarter Campaign so Far
AIMonster
Member UncommonPosts: 2,059
So let me say that I'm backing this campaign because I really like the concept of the game, and not just because I'm a nostalgic old EQ player. In fact, if they were just essentially just reskinning EQ or Vanguard and updating it with shiny new tech and graphics then I wouldn't be backing it. They are addressing a lot of the bad bits of old school MMOs (well for me, anyway) and that's why I backed.
There is some frequent communication to backers in the comment section and I'm glad in such a short amount of time 2 Q&A videos have already been released. There is also a lot of PR and communication outside the kickstarter too, and I can say that for the most Pantheon is out there and known on all the right sites. It's being talked about, even if some of it is negative (happens with all major kickstarters, but obviously this one gets special backlash due to Vanguard/Sigil/Mcquaid controversy), but even some negative comments could be good sometimes as it keeps people interested, active, and watching the development.
That said, I see a lot of things I personally would like to see improved with the Kickstarter:
- I know this is being looked at, but the reward tiers are all over the place right now. A reward matrix needs to be put out so it's clearer what you are getting. Many people are confusing the two $250 tiers thinking they get lifetime sub access for example in the internal testing tier. Rethink the current unpopular reward tiers. Forefather pledge just isn't enticing at all when I can just go back at Cohort level on one account then buy 10 Explorer Pledges on a separate Kickstarter account for my guildmates to same effect (or however many I see fit as I'm not just limited to 10), saving $550 and I lose out on a custom guild tabard and early guild name reservation + a cosmetic pet on each account which in no way adds up to $550. Guildmaster isn't much better. At least include Pathfinder/Paragon level on one account for Guildmaster.
- The same goes for the stretch goals also. A little more detail on what they would include would be nice. Some seem a bit out of place in priorities for me personally. Is modding a UI really that important that it needs to be so low on the stretch goal list? Is a UGC server even something that players are excited about that it even belongs on the list let alone below Sky and Water content?
- The game appeals to a niche audience, but that doesn't mean someone who hasn't played a old school MMO before or even doesn't have much MMO experience if any at all won't necessarily enjoy it. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who grew up playing MMOs in the WoW or post WoW era and never got the experience what the benefits of what it is like to play a MMO like this. While reaching the funding goal should be possible with just fans of EQ/Vanguard, hitting those end goals even with long term crowdsourcing campaigns beyond Kickstarter just doesn't seem possible without getting lots of new people excited for the game and believe me, they do exist. I'd like to see your PR guys and developers who are very active on gaming sites explain to people why they should give Pantheon a shot and why they might enjoy it, which brings me to my next point.
- Right now much of the game and it's direction is very vague. Your game tenets are excellent, but it doesn't really go into specifics of how that's going to be implemented into Pantheon. The QA videos and developers answering questions in comments/forums are helping with this and I imagine updates on mechanics, lore, dungeons, etc. should all help with this all. I realize it's still VERY early in development and most stuff isn't hashed out yet so you developers don't want to get caught making promises they can't deliver on, but there are a lot of people holding out their pledges till we get far more specifics on certain things.
- Please look into seriously revamping reward tiers and stretch goals.
- Try to explain to people who haven't played EQ or Vanguard why'd they like Pantheon over a modern MMO feature set.
- Much clearer and more detailed explanations of game mechanics are needed on the Kickstarter page.
- Backers try not to alienate people who didn't play older MMOs and may not understand some of the benefits of the features they had. Explain the benefits of these features.
Comments
New Update has beginning of map from Sebilis creator Vu Nguyen, entrance to Sunken Sanctum:
Agree. Kickstarter could be better. Tiers above 45 get confusing as to what you get. Also I wish they'd shown more of the dungeon not just the first part.
Also, they could generate so many viewers that they open up a twitch subscriber account and get paid extra while working live, lol.
EDIT:
Hmm, now that I think about it, that's not actually a bad idea, just gotta be selective about what you show. lol
look im not a backer and i certainly hold a number of reservations concerning this project.
however, really? this is what you come up with?
can we please try to stick to substantial arguments pro or con?
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Agree with the OP in particular this quote.
That's the reason I didn't subscribe yet.
It is not just the fact that there isn't enough detailed information, but the fact this is sign of poor planning which is what worries me most about this project.
I don't want to see videos and screenshots, at this stage is way too early.
What I want to see though is a detailed description of all the main features of Pantheon and how they will work.
This is called planning,
The lack of planning caused Vanguard to fail hard, I don't want to see a repeat of this.
So in short, I'd like to see Brad McQuaid being able to display his planning skills before I can trust him with my money.
I am all to give people another chance, but they also have to show me they deserve one.
Hotmail is what you use to sign up for places like mmorpg.com, random f2p games and porn sites. You don't use hotmail as your business email because, call me crazy, its unprofessional. Being unprofessional, esp. considering McQuaid's past, is very much relevant to the discussion.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Needing 200k to make a class is understandable, actually. There are new skills which require new animations and particles as well as balancing. You have to create armor for that class, which requires even more art assets. If the game is anything like EQ, there will also be specific quests designed for classes like the epic weapon quests that could take quite a bit of development time. I think asking $200k for a new class is perfectly reasonable.
Nice commentary, OP. Well written, even keeled.
You have to wonder though, if they can't handle their Kickstarter well, what does that say about them? It's not rocket surgery. This pitch will have no traction with me, as I looked at EQ in its prime and decided the problems outweighed the advantages, and did not play. The re-envisioned game might do it, but not to the point of me supporting a kickstarter for it.
The point about fans dissing everyone who doesn't share their golden-age view is a good one, too. You see this all over, the 'Back when games were good' trope. Instead of 'Back when games were like I liked'. It's elitist, and usually ignores completely legitimate complaints about aspects of those older games.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Of course it is not reasonable. It is ok for them to demand $200k more, I just find it funny they say it is only for new class so I'm pointing that out.
Assets are reused in games over and over, same goes for animations. If you pay attention to detail, you will see the same animations with different colors and particle spread/shape even in AAA titles. So far every game I play have three classes of armour - medium, light and heavy. They already have classes to cover all types, adding new doesn't require any additional work, unless they're making some class exclusive stuff, which they are not as far as I know. Didn't hear anything about making exclusive quests either.
So $200k for few guys balancing skills, and few guys doing some new attack animation is not really justified is it?
To be honest, I didn't think the presentation in the KS video was very good.
I could not stand the fact that most everybody, including Brad McQuaid to an extent, basically read off the teleprompter in an obvious fashion and with what appeared to be feigned enthusiasm. It just did not look like anyone could speak from the heart and improvise. And whatever was shown off just looked like more of the same high fantasy stuff to me.
Granted, this KS was at least much better than the Trials of Ascension KS a while ago, where the devs practically spoke in a monotone voice.
I have to hand it to Mark Jacobs though. I don't think anyone can deny how phenomenal of a job he did in presenting the Camelot Unchained KS. The passion and eloquence that came through in his videos were just marvelous. His presentation arguably made all the difference given how little of the game they actually had to show off.
I think they should have developed more "Add-Ons" and less "Tiers". The lifetime sub level is a perfect example.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Concept is interesting, graphics look like a pre eq2/Vanguard game.
I really do not expect much from this game and I will not support it, if it releases somewhere in the future I will possibly give it a shot, but there are way too many mmo's in development atm that are asking for crowd funding, a lot of these games seem to be taking the moeny and running so to speak.
I mean I am supporting the Repopulation, Pathfinder, Gloira Victus and Landmark atm, no need for games that look less impressive or have less potential that them.
I actually think this is VERY similar to Pathfinder's development. Those guys didn't really have much to show and their team was just a few people when they had their Kickstart. They got a Million in funding, but that isn't going to get them a full MMO. They will have to have additional fund raising and/or release a really, really small core game and hope to grow it.
I did support Pathfinder, it was the first Kickstart I ever did and it was really just based on the names of a lot of the people involved. Very similar to Pantheon at least in my mind.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Right, Nothing stood out to me in this project as unique and genre-defining.
This. I find I very dishonest to show a Unity prototype and label it pre-Alpha. It should have been labeled as a prototype and a note on what that means or not shown at all.
The people in involved should also not have been reading carefully prepared scripts, especially when they can't do it without sounding like they are reading from scripts.
Those are the reasons that even though I am a Vanguard fan, I will not back this. It comes off way too dishonest.
You are not backing the game because developers are not actors? Lol. Well enjoy SWTOR then.
Anyway, new layout of kickstarter tiers is better below is better - but side listing is still confusing. I guess PCGamer has a reveal today.
There are plenty of games on kickstarter and have been on kickstarter. No idea where the SWTOR comment is coming from. This game just doesn't come off right and honestly seems like all of this is more about Brad than the game. That's why I'm not backing.
lol true.
Additionally, "I" have a hotmail account because it was made so, so long ago and I feel no need to change it so that I can appear to have a cool e-mail.
It's a silly thing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No, it's because they went by scripts, were obviously going by scripts, and showed little to no genuine enthusiasm over the project.
Go take a look at Brian Fargo's KS video for Wasteland 2, or the video for War for the Overworld's KS, or the one from Planet Explorers. They look and sound excited for their respective projects and aren't just reading from a prompter in a near monotone.
Between the presentation of the game and the haphazard way by which they're releasing information, the game is showing signs of Vanguard-style disorganization before it's even funded. Not a good sign, not at all.
If you read this Brad, either get your act together or hire someone else to manage things. While I have little interest in the game myself, it would be a shame to see money wasted and past mistakes revisited. Well, that and the belly-achers here and elsewhere will have something to play & will hopefully clam up, heh.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
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Attention to detail my friend. If something as important as your work mail is being treated like this, can you imagine the rest?
Even I have my own professional email, and I am a nobody. lol
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