Come on oldschoolers lets back this up so we can see five other games like this go into development!
Which is really sad as this genre is about dead and desperately needs a game that brings challenge back to the genre.
Why?
I mean things change, and if the premise for a game like Pantheon is too niche/not enough people want this anymore, how can you say the genre needs it?
I disagree, there's plenty of room for niche mmorpg's if they are done well. We funded Camelot Unchained and it's a niche game for old school vets, and still room for new people that decide they like it as well. There's always gamers looking for something that's not the typical themepark mmorpg.
While I won't be backing Pantheon, I hope it gets funded for those that want it. I would probably try it out at release. It's just too far away from release and not enough information for me to fund it and wait until 2017 just for alpha. The fact that it is so far away is what makes me not want to fund it, not the ideas for the mmorpg. It could be 2017-2018-2019 before it's released, mmorpg's get pushed back all the time.
Well, right now they are on track to fail per KickTraq... I never like seeing that but it is a case of making your own luck through what you have on hand to generate the needed fan hype and interest. Q&A's are nice but only a supplement to the meat of a good project presentation. I keep looking for a constructive idea to present that would help them get on the plus side of those numbers but without some real and glitzy footage of play or a good trailer IDK what will move the yard stick.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick Well, right now they are on track to fail per KickTraq... I never like seeing that but it is a case of making your own luck through what you have on hand to generate the needed fan hype and interest. Q&A's are nice but only a supplement to the meat of a good project presentation. I keep looking for a constructive idea to present that would help them get on the plus side of those numbers but without some real and glitzy footage of play or a good trailer IDK what will move the yard stick.
More footage or a trailer wouldn't do it for me, it's the timeline itself that keeps me from backing it. Looking at least 3-4 years at the minimum for release, morerealistically 4-5 years for release. It's just too long away for me, I would probably give it a try and buy it at release if it ended up looking to be good, but I just couldn't see backing it now.
I think some more screenshots of areas or a small out skirt town/city would be a big plus, pictures are worth a thousand words and if people like what they see, they will pay more attention to it.
Originally posted by Kilsin I think some more screenshots of areas or a small out skirt town/city would be a big plus, pictures are worth a thousand words and if people like what they see, they will pay more attention to it.
I agree that a picture is a thousand words and would help creating a bit more interest however with where they are in the kickstarter and everything, doubt they have much more than the basic foundation created on paper. Right now I think it's more about seeing what kind of interest they can get from the community just based on concept.
If they had any videos or images or anything of the sort, that would be great but it might be a bit to soon to actually have anything worth seeing other then concept art.
This game is my ideal game - I like the original EQ, I liked Vanguard. I think Brad is the man to do the job, but they should have waited to do the KS later like March/April like MJ did. I think they will hit their base mark, maybe a little higher, but they need to do something a lot better to get anywhere near most of those stretch goals. Later in the year pople would have been more willing to throw money at this. I will probably back because of the idea, but honestly this is a pretty lame KS from what I've seen and I've back about 25 projects. I'm just glad they waited a few extra weeks to start it to get some content, cause it's seriously lacking right now.
FFXIV:ARR has PVP only in groups, Fates are much more beneficial in groups, Raid content, Dungeons have to be done in groups (wether cross server PUG or pre-made).
They definitely push to be grouped but leave most if not all quests to be soloable.
I'm sorry I had to jump in here and call you out.
ARR is about as group demanding as WoW.
I don't mean that in a bad way, I love both games, though I do miss EQ1 or DAoC or how much I wanted / needed to group in SWG / UO. That is the kind of game they are saying they are going to build.
ARR and WoW are NOT like this at all, you are seriously derailing the conversation.
From my heart WoW is probably the worst game I've played at best it made me feel like a retard.. That's how much I feel it sucked.. As soon someone mention WoW I directly starts to vomit.. Do I need to seek help? IMHO no cause that's the face of the reality E=mc2 ??
I've gone all in for what I can on the kickstarter. I hope as more information comes out more people are willing to fork over some money for this. I've been saying in various places MMO's need a developer who's willing to make a game targeted at a group of people instead of trying to target everyone thus watering down everything. I randomly heard about Pantheon and out of curiosity looked to see what it was. I jumped for joy when I saw Brad was doing it. Jumped even higher when I was looking at what the ideas were for the game and realizing it's exactly what I've been wanting and saying a developer should do.
So come on people get out there and help get an MMO out from the ground up. Sure it could flop, but I think Brad has enough experience to design a good game and something like this helps avoid publishers telling what has to be done and rushing them to get it out before it's ready (such as Vanguard). If it is a success then you can truly say you were there from the start because you actually helped get the game started.
Come on oldschoolers lets back this up so we can see five other games like this go into development!
So, we get five more completely generic requests for cash with no design document, plan, actual timeline, or initial time investment?
No thanks. There are already plenty of very good kickstarter MMOs from people all in. This is a shoddy money grab based solely on the fact this guy was part of the initial EQ team. He's selling himself, and not an actual product. If you back this, you essentially are giving Brad a check to spend how he see's fit.
Go back Shroud of the Avatar, Camelot Unchained, or many of the other games where the team is all in, and actually has and had a real plan from day one.
So, we get five more completely generic requests for cash with no design document, plan, actual timeline, or initial time investment?
No thanks. There are already plenty of very good kickstarter MMOs from people all in. This is a shoddy money grab based solely on the fact this guy was part of the initial EQ team. He's selling himself, and not an actual product. If you back this, you essentially are giving Brad a check to spend how he see's fit.
Go back Shroud of the Avatar, Camelot Unchained, or many of the other games where the team is all in, and actually has and had a real plan from day one.
Totally agree and the 2017 time frame is just ludicrous and should be a dead giveaway. Too much can happen between now and then.
So, we get five more completely generic requests for cash with no design document, plan, actual timeline, or initial time investment?
No thanks. There are already plenty of very good kickstarter MMOs from people all in. This is a shoddy money grab based solely on the fact this guy was part of the initial EQ team. He's selling himself, and not an actual product. If you back this, you essentially are giving Brad a check to spend how he see's fit.
Go back Shroud of the Avatar, Camelot Unchained, or many of the other games where the team is all in, and actually has and had a real plan from day one.
Totally agree and the 2017 time frame is just ludicrous and should be a dead giveaway. Too much can happen between now and then.
Yeah... like the typical time-frame for the development of a MMORPG. They need time to develop one of the largest and most complex types of games in existence. They're looking at 3 years. The horror.
A number of MMOs have taken up to 5 years, or longer. I can only imagine the outrage you'd express about those games requiring so much time.
You people are funny, with some of the things you choose to criticize or chastise about.
They only started the initial design for this game in Sept. of last year, and have been working on it out of their own pockets. No one has seen a single red cent yet for their time or effort to this point. They've turned to Kickstarter now to try and get funding so they can start working at it more aggressively. And they're not even asking a lot to get started. Compared to the amounts similar projects have requested on KS, they're in the lower range.
Best part about this? If you don't like the project or aren't interested... you don't have to back it. You don't even have to follow it.
Come on oldschoolers lets back this up so we can see five other games like this go into development!
So, we get five more completely generic requests for cash with no design document, plan, actual timeline, or initial time investment?
No thanks. There are already plenty of very good kickstarter MMOs from people all in. This is a shoddy money grab based solely on the fact this guy was part of the initial EQ team. He's selling himself, and not an actual product. If you back this, you essentially are giving Brad a check to spend how he see's fit.
Go back Shroud of the Avatar, Camelot Unchained, or many of the other games where the team is all in, and actually has and had a real plan from day one.
I am sure brad is ready to retire in 28days with this lottery win. 10 well known people working on this i doubt they are going to ruin thier careers with a shoddy money grab.
My only disapointment so far with Pantheon is that its not a Seamless open world like Vanguard or Everquest Online Adventures was.
Easily the most overrated thing in MMORPG history.
Zoning is fine, if done the Everquest way.
Vanguard absolutely has seams by the way. And they were very noticeable at launch on a mid range machine.
One question I like to ask people who are all about seamless worlds - often on the basis of "no loading screens" - is this:
In a seamless world, are you running everywhere? Or do you teleport to get where you're going, or perhaps use a form of automated travel (ie. gryphons in WoW)?
Few people will ever claim to run everywhere on foot, unless it's no more than a few minutes run. Otherwise, they teleport. And what do you get when you teleport? Loading screens. What do you do when taking automated travel? Wait.
Zoned worlds bring a lot of benefits to the developer - and, though many won't realize it, as they focus only on the "outward" parts of it that they see - the players.
Yeah... like the typical time-frame for the development of a MMORPG. They need time to develop one of the largest and most complex types of games in existence. They're looking at 3 years. The horror.
A number of MMOs have taken up to 5 years, or longer. I can only imagine the outrage you'd express about those games requiring so much time.
You people are funny, with some of the things you choose to criticize or chastise about.
They only started the initial design for this game in Sept. of last year, and have been working on it out of their own pockets. No one has seen a single red cent yet for their time or effort to this point. They've turned to Kickstarter now to try and get funding so they can start working at it more aggressively. And they're not even asking a lot to get started. Compared to the amounts similar projects have requested on KS, they're in the lower range.
Best part about this? If you don't like the project or aren't interested... you don't have to back it. You don't even have to follow it.
I'm giving my honest assessment of a Kickstarter that to me is completely amateur looking for a poor project that I feel has little chance of success. If you don't like my posts, feel free to not follow them.
They started the design for this game in September, and yet the funding site has no design listed. They have no demo. They have no art assets. They are presenting the default Unity entities solely, and old art assets for other things.
They have not done any actual work that I can see and their fundraising to me appears to be from a group that wants volunteer funding before they actually start doing any work for this game besides holding out a hat.
Where is the funding going? What is the total projected cost? Do they really expect 800,000 to fund 10 people for the three years they have projected for this project, with only one actual programmer on that team? Not to mention this project is in California, not exactly the cheapest place to live.
You people with absolutely zero financial acumen mindlessly backing a boondoggle are funny. Forgive those of us who value our money and prefer to support projects that have professionals who back their own projects first before begging for cash, even if they aren't wealthy like Mr. Mcquaid.
I'm giving my honest assessment of a Kickstarter that to me is completely amateur looking for a poor project that I feel has little chance of success. If you don't like my posts, feel free to not follow them.
Ah, no. You don't get to post something like what you did, and then tell people "don't read my posts if you don't like it". That rings of someone who can't tolerate a dissenting opinion.
ANd you're not giving an honest assessment. You're knocking something you demonstrably know very little about... as my post will point out.
They started the design for this game in September, and yet the funding site has no design listed. They have no demo. They have no art assets. They are presenting the default Unity entities solely, and old art assets for other things.
You mean except for all the information they have released about the game's setting, gameplay, features, dieites, combat, trade, loot, dungeon design, classes... not to mention all the questions Brad has answered in their Q&A videos and in interviews? Is that the design you're saying they don't have listed?
Or, are you pulling the common routine of setting an arbitrary bar for them to meet, just so you can say they haven't met it - as though it somehow matters?
You do realize they have almost a month to go to release more information, and they have already stated that more information will be coming in frequently as things progress? You realize that's also kinda how KS's work? Developers release more info over time, etc, so people who are on the fence can take their time, see how it goes and if they feel it's worth their pledge - right up 'til the last minutes - they can do so?
As for using default assets from Unity... You realize that's what developers do, right? They use stand-in assets to flesh areas out while final assets are being created. Richard Garriot's team did the same thing for his project and stated as much in his interviews. Other developers do the same thing. One such method is known as "white-boxing".
See, these are things you learn when you actually take the time to to, before taking to the forums to demonstrate your incredulity over it.
They have not done any actual work that I can see and their fundraising to me appears to be from a group that wants volunteer funding before they actually start doing any work for this game besides holding out a hat.
Again, you are arguing from ignorance. They have been working on the game out of their own pocket since September, have enough to get things seriously rolling and are turning to KS to raise some funding to do so. Given that all of them have worked in the industry for upwards of 20 years, I'm pretty sure they have a firm grasp on what groundwork needs to be in place before they move forward. You make it sound as though they're a bunch of clueless amateurs taking to KS with absolutely nothing worked out.
Where is the funding going? What is the total projected cost? Do they really expect 800,000 to fund 10 people for the three years they have projected for this project, with only one actual programmer on that team? Not to mention this project is in California, not exactly the cheapest place to live.
You know what's great about posts like yours? In your attempt to undermine or cast doubt on the project by "challenging" some aspect of it, you instead demonstrate how little research you've actually done on it before posting.
They have already answered the question about the $800,000 from KS. The answer is that no, they do not intend the $800,000 to carry them the entire time. It's to help get the wheels rolling in a more official capacity, so people can stop working out of their pockets and start getting paid for what they do while working on it, etc. 'cause you know, people got to eat, have bills to pay, overhead, etc... They will seek other funding, and already have potential sources lined up (at least one as I recall).
You people with absolutely zero financial acumen mindlessly backing a boondoggle are funny. Forgive those of us who value our money and prefer to support projects that have professionals who back their own projects first before begging for cash, even if they aren't wealthy like Mr. Mcquaid.
Yes, us poor people with "zero financial acumen backing a boondoggle". Right. lol. Big words coming from someone who's demonstrably ignorant about a project they're mocking others for getting behind.... all while patting themselves on the back for their own "superior intellect".
The irony is delicious.
Here ya go. Plenty of info there. Go educate yourself.
You did not refute anything I posted. They have no actual plan, no finished design document, and no breakdown of how funding will be used or how much of their own cash they will be contributing. You do realize Mcquaid is a pretty well off guy.
The Kickstarter remains a complete train wreck, but maybe by the time it ends and doesn't fund they'll have enough generic MMO garbage and buzzwords on the site that next time they can fool enough gullible types that they should throw money at a game and group of 9 designers and one coder to make something like Vanguard that won't ever be completed
Thanks everyone for the continued discussion about our kickstarter. As mentioned earlier in the thread, we posted a rather lengthy interview with Curse today, as well as information about how combat will be designed in Pantheon.
We're trending much better this weekend so far, and we picked up a bunch more first time pledgers - thank you all for that! Those of you that are still on the fence or skeptical about the project, thank you for chiming in too - your feedback's also greatly appreciated.
Again, outside of the really poor job at creating the Kickstarter, my issues are listed above. I'd like to know how the funding will be used and how much of your own resources you are using. Even small Indy groups generally have their own website and have done the groundwork before presenting their case to the community. Your group is not a small Indy one, and in my opinion should be held to a higher standard.
As someone who manages large projects for a living, the first thing I'd suggest is to reorganize your Kickstarter page with a better table of contents breaking it down into sections. Then move the lore and vast majority of newly created IP into a segregate Pantheon Website. If you really are too constrained to buy a website, just use a free domain, but give yourself your own arena to update and add stuff that isn't built around just the funding site.
I have zero doubts the team you have can design a killer MMO. I also have zero confidence in this project since I do not see one hard charging business professional in that team who understands deadlines, deliverables, management, and projects. There are enough of us business pro's out there who love this genre that you could be leveraging and who would add some reality to this KS.
Comments
Latest Q&A video is up this one is much better than the others!
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I disagree, there's plenty of room for niche mmorpg's if they are done well. We funded Camelot Unchained and it's a niche game for old school vets, and still room for new people that decide they like it as well. There's always gamers looking for something that's not the typical themepark mmorpg.
While I won't be backing Pantheon, I hope it gets funded for those that want it. I would probably try it out at release. It's just too far away from release and not enough information for me to fund it and wait until 2017 just for alpha. The fact that it is so far away is what makes me not want to fund it, not the ideas for the mmorpg. It could be 2017-2018-2019 before it's released, mmorpg's get pushed back all the time.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
More footage or a trailer wouldn't do it for me, it's the timeline itself that keeps me from backing it. Looking at least 3-4 years at the minimum for release, more realistically 4-5 years for release. It's just too long away for me, I would probably give it a try and buy it at release if it ended up looking to be good, but I just couldn't see backing it now.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I agree that a picture is a thousand words and would help creating a bit more interest however with where they are in the kickstarter and everything, doubt they have much more than the basic foundation created on paper. Right now I think it's more about seeing what kind of interest they can get from the community just based on concept.
If they had any videos or images or anything of the sort, that would be great but it might be a bit to soon to actually have anything worth seeing other then concept art.
I'm sorry I had to jump in here and call you out.
ARR is about as group demanding as WoW.
I don't mean that in a bad way, I love both games, though I do miss EQ1 or DAoC or how much I wanted / needed to group in SWG / UO. That is the kind of game they are saying they are going to build.
ARR and WoW are NOT like this at all, you are seriously derailing the conversation.
No Signature
No Signature
I've gone all in for what I can on the kickstarter. I hope as more information comes out more people are willing to fork over some money for this. I've been saying in various places MMO's need a developer who's willing to make a game targeted at a group of people instead of trying to target everyone thus watering down everything. I randomly heard about Pantheon and out of curiosity looked to see what it was. I jumped for joy when I saw Brad was doing it. Jumped even higher when I was looking at what the ideas were for the game and realizing it's exactly what I've been wanting and saying a developer should do.
So come on people get out there and help get an MMO out from the ground up. Sure it could flop, but I think Brad has enough experience to design a good game and something like this helps avoid publishers telling what has to be done and rushing them to get it out before it's ready (such as Vanguard). If it is a success then you can truly say you were there from the start because you actually helped get the game started.
So, we get five more completely generic requests for cash with no design document, plan, actual timeline, or initial time investment?
No thanks. There are already plenty of very good kickstarter MMOs from people all in. This is a shoddy money grab based solely on the fact this guy was part of the initial EQ team. He's selling himself, and not an actual product. If you back this, you essentially are giving Brad a check to spend how he see's fit.
Go back Shroud of the Avatar, Camelot Unchained, or many of the other games where the team is all in, and actually has and had a real plan from day one.
Totally agree and the 2017 time frame is just ludicrous and should be a dead giveaway. Too much can happen between now and then.
Yeah... like the typical time-frame for the development of a MMORPG. They need time to develop one of the largest and most complex types of games in existence. They're looking at 3 years. The horror.
A number of MMOs have taken up to 5 years, or longer. I can only imagine the outrage you'd express about those games requiring so much time.
You people are funny, with some of the things you choose to criticize or chastise about.
They only started the initial design for this game in Sept. of last year, and have been working on it out of their own pockets. No one has seen a single red cent yet for their time or effort to this point. They've turned to Kickstarter now to try and get funding so they can start working at it more aggressively. And they're not even asking a lot to get started. Compared to the amounts similar projects have requested on KS, they're in the lower range.
Best part about this? If you don't like the project or aren't interested... you don't have to back it. You don't even have to follow it.
One question I like to ask people who are all about seamless worlds - often on the basis of "no loading screens" - is this:
In a seamless world, are you running everywhere? Or do you teleport to get where you're going, or perhaps use a form of automated travel (ie. gryphons in WoW)?
Few people will ever claim to run everywhere on foot, unless it's no more than a few minutes run. Otherwise, they teleport. And what do you get when you teleport? Loading screens. What do you do when taking automated travel? Wait.
Zoned worlds bring a lot of benefits to the developer - and, though many won't realize it, as they focus only on the "outward" parts of it that they see - the players.
I'm giving my honest assessment of a Kickstarter that to me is completely amateur looking for a poor project that I feel has little chance of success. If you don't like my posts, feel free to not follow them.
They started the design for this game in September, and yet the funding site has no design listed. They have no demo. They have no art assets. They are presenting the default Unity entities solely, and old art assets for other things.
They have not done any actual work that I can see and their fundraising to me appears to be from a group that wants volunteer funding before they actually start doing any work for this game besides holding out a hat.
Where is the funding going? What is the total projected cost? Do they really expect 800,000 to fund 10 people for the three years they have projected for this project, with only one actual programmer on that team? Not to mention this project is in California, not exactly the cheapest place to live.
You people with absolutely zero financial acumen mindlessly backing a boondoggle are funny. Forgive those of us who value our money and prefer to support projects that have professionals who back their own projects first before begging for cash, even if they aren't wealthy like Mr. Mcquaid.
Curse has a REALLY good and long interview with the team
Pantheon information thread
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/403629/page/1
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
You did not refute anything I posted. They have no actual plan, no finished design document, and no breakdown of how funding will be used or how much of their own cash they will be contributing. You do realize Mcquaid is a pretty well off guy.
The Kickstarter remains a complete train wreck, but maybe by the time it ends and doesn't fund they'll have enough generic MMO garbage and buzzwords on the site that next time they can fool enough gullible types that they should throw money at a game and group of 9 designers and one coder to make something like Vanguard that won't ever be completed
lol. Ignorance is bliss.
Let's compare kickstarters!
Generic high fantasy MMO with unrealistic kickstarter goals
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen
vs.
Epic medieval single-player RPG that already funded almost a month in advance
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1294225970/kingdom-come-deliverance
the numbers don't lie.
Thanks everyone for the continued discussion about our kickstarter. As mentioned earlier in the thread, we posted a rather lengthy interview with Curse today, as well as information about how combat will be designed in Pantheon.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/posts
We're trending much better this weekend so far, and we picked up a bunch more first time pledgers - thank you all for that! Those of you that are still on the fence or skeptical about the project, thank you for chiming in too - your feedback's also greatly appreciated.
Again, outside of the really poor job at creating the Kickstarter, my issues are listed above. I'd like to know how the funding will be used and how much of your own resources you are using. Even small Indy groups generally have their own website and have done the groundwork before presenting their case to the community. Your group is not a small Indy one, and in my opinion should be held to a higher standard.
As someone who manages large projects for a living, the first thing I'd suggest is to reorganize your Kickstarter page with a better table of contents breaking it down into sections. Then move the lore and vast majority of newly created IP into a segregate Pantheon Website. If you really are too constrained to buy a website, just use a free domain, but give yourself your own arena to update and add stuff that isn't built around just the funding site.
I have zero doubts the team you have can design a killer MMO. I also have zero confidence in this project since I do not see one hard charging business professional in that team who understands deadlines, deliverables, management, and projects. There are enough of us business pro's out there who love this genre that you could be leveraging and who would add some reality to this KS.