Nah, just because ESO appears to have a bad and exploitive model (which i think will backfire n them big time) I think the sub model is alive and well because most games realize that offering anything in addition to cosmetics for sale above the sub price in a sub game is totally unreasonable.
The reality though is that "sub" now equals "sub with a cosmetic cash shop". Being totally against any kind of cash shop is kind of pointless as all companies now realize that cash shop=free money. ESO is taking this to a ludicrous extreme though expecting you to buy racial unlocks in addition to your box price. I hope not many people will go along with that.
I would agree-
I sure will not be buying this now, for whatever its worth.
I have been 'on the fence' about this game anyhow but had stated many, many times I WILL be purchasing this since I have played every ES game since Daggerfall (played arena as well, but not for very long)
I am off the fence. Hope it crashes and burns not because I want the game itself to fail (i dont) but I want this encroachment stopped. Its already essentially ruined the hobby imho and the nicke and diming for everything is going to continue until we ALL vote with out wallets (which is unlikely) and so the slippery slope will probably become a cliff.
Skyrim also doesn't have a persistent online world with PvP, grouping, and (theoretically) no additional cost content updates.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
The collectors edition stuff looks pretty standard. For those getting so upset over the extra race to play, that's essentially just a skin for your character and totally cosmetic so I don't see what the big deal is.
Look into racial skill lines (not cosmetic - and that is the issue). If it had just been a skin you would have had complaints but it would have been nothing new. This is the first time I have seen the triple dip (box, sub and cash shop) before launch, but sadly not the first time I have seen people defend the poor billion dollar company from the evil greedy consumer.
Skyrim also doesn't have a persistent online world with PvP, grouping, and (theoretically) no additional cost content updates.
I think GW2 has that too, along with the cash shop. Only they don't have the sub fee... weird.
I believe you are mistaken if you think the additional costs are going towards anything other than investor dividends. TESO doesn't have magically high costs compared to every other MMORPG out there. Time will tell if the subscription is justifiable, but it's just as likely that the content updates are crap and the sub is a scam. Now, if the content updates are meaningful and worthwhile updates, I can agree with the subscription. Gating content behind a pay wall (and the cash shop that will assist in this), a box price AND a subscription? Only stupid consumers can justify that.
Edit: Also, the content updates would be at the additional cost of a subscription fee. The days of a subscription fee ONLY providing access to servers are behind us. With all the F2P options, a company needs to justify a subscription.
Skyrim also doesn't have a persistent online world with PvP, grouping, and (theoretically) no additional cost content updates.
True but the point is not that ESO shouldn't have a sub it's that it if it's going to have a box and a sub you should get everything gameplay related in the game without having to buy a collector's edition on top of that. A B2P single player game without a sub is different.
I think GW2 has that too, along with the cash shop. Only they don't have the sub fee... weird.
I believe you are mistaken if you think the additional costs are going towards anything other than investor dividends. TESO doesn't have magically high costs compared to every other MMORPG out there. Time will tell if the subscription is justifiable, but it's just as likely that the content updates are crap and the sub is a scam. Now, if the content updates are meaningful and worthwhile updates, I can agree with the subscription. Gating content behind a pay wall (and the cash shop that will assist in this), a box price AND a subscription? Only stupid consumers can justify that.
So all the people who play WoW (still the largest chunk of the MMO market) are stupid? Because they still have a sub, and they have a cash shop, and you still have to pay for every expansion when you want to see new content, and some of those expansions have included new classes and/or races which couldn't be played until you ponied up for the expansion.
Originally posted by iridescence
True but the point is not that ESO shouldn't have a sub it's that it if it's going to have a box and a sub you should get everything gameplay related in the game without having to buy a collector's edition on top of that. A B2P single player game without a sub is different.
Does anyone have a better argument than "because other games did it that way" to support *why* you should get everything for the purchase price plus a subscription? What is in it for Zenimax if they did it that way?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Skyrim also doesn't have a persistent online world with PvP, grouping, and (theoretically) no additional cost content updates.
I think GW2 has that too, along with the cash shop. Only they don't have the sub fee... weird.
I believe you are mistaken if you think the additional costs are going towards anything other than investor dividends. TESO doesn't have magically high costs compared to every other MMORPG out there. Time will tell if the subscription is justifiable, but it's just as likely that the content updates are crap and the sub is a scam. Now, if the content updates are meaningful and worthwhile updates, I can agree with the subscription. Gating content behind a pay wall (and the cash shop that will assist in this), a box price AND a subscription? Only stupid consumers can justify that.
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?
This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.
So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.
Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.
I get the frustration of being unable to afford a fancy CE. But this is a company that is not F2P, at least not for a good 6 months (hopefully longer). Let them make the money they need to pay the $220,000,000 (speculative) bill of bringing an mmo that believes in some sense of RPG.
I want them to have a cosmetic cash shop as well, if this means that we can avoid F2P for as long as possible.
So all the people who play WoW (still the largest chunk of the MMO market) are stupid? Because they still have a sub, and they have a cash shop, and you still have to pay for every expansion when you want to see new content, and some of those expansions have included new classes and/or races which couldn't be played until you ponied up for the expansion.
Let me know when WoW adds racial unlocks to their cash shop...
Originally posted by iridescence
True but the point is not that ESO shouldn't have a sub it's that it if it's going to have a box and a sub you should get everything gameplay related in the game without having to buy a collector's edition on top of that. A B2P single player game without a sub is different.
Does anyone have a better argument than "because other games did it that way" to support *why* you should get everything for the purchase price plus a subscription? What is in it for Zenimax if they did it that way?
They can charge what they like but I don't have to buy it or like it . Basic economics, if you raise the price of something too high you actually start to make less money.
I think GW2 has that too, along with the cash shop. Only they don't have the sub fee... weird.
I believe you are mistaken if you think the additional costs are going towards anything other than investor dividends. TESO doesn't have magically high costs compared to every other MMORPG out there. Time will tell if the subscription is justifiable, but it's just as likely that the content updates are crap and the sub is a scam. Now, if the content updates are meaningful and worthwhile updates, I can agree with the subscription. Gating content behind a pay wall (and the cash shop that will assist in this), a box price AND a subscription? Only stupid consumers can justify that.
So all the people who play WoW (still the largest chunk of the MMO market) are stupid? Because they still have a sub, and they have a cash shop, and you still have to pay for every expansion when you want to see new content, and some of those expansions have included new classes and/or races which couldn't be played until you ponied up for the expansion.
I would say that it does get a pass on some things because it's the best MMORPG currently available. Also, it's my understanding that they regularly release compelling raid content throughout the life cycle of each expansion, which helps justify the subscription cost. That being said, I don't play WoW or particularly agree with all of Blizzard's business practices, particularly a cash shop (or content gated behind a pay wall) on top of a subscription fee.
All I really have left to say is that I'm definitely not the one trying to justify box price, content behind a pay wall and a subscription. Is Zenimax paying you for your support or is it just some sort of private crusade?
True but the point is not that ESO shouldn't have a sub it's that it if it's going to have a box and a sub you should get everything gameplay related in the game without having to buy a collector's edition on top of that. A B2P single player game without a sub is different.
Does anyone have a better argument than "because other games did it that way" to support *why* you should get everything for the purchase price plus a subscription? What is in it for Zenimax if they did it that way?
The simple answer is, it's not a closed market. What they get out of it is players. Everything has a cost. Sometimes you get more money, sometimes you get less players. They can do whatever they want and charge whatever they want, but obviously they can't make everyone see what they're charging as worth paying.
Everyone else used to give you everything for the sub fee, it's what the paying player expects. Once you step away from that players now have to decide if this new same fee but less game is worth it. Wow got away with it because it's wow. A new game doesn't have 10 years of content under it's belt.
Let me know when WoW adds racial unlocks to their cash shop...
They can charge what they like but I don't have to buy it or like it . Basic economics, if you raise the price of something too high you actually start to make less money.
If they release an expansion that includes a race which can only be played by those play the expansion, that is the equivalent of a racial unlock in a cash shop. The fact that it is packaged with other content doesn't change the reality that it is a race behind a pay wall.
And you are right that you don't have to buy it or like it. But if I were you, I wouldn't get my hopes up that enough people share your view to stop the direction the industry is moving in.
Originally posted by temporary_user
I would say that it does get a pass on some things because it's the best MMORPG currently available. Also, it's my understanding that they regularly release compelling raid content throughout the life cycle of each expansion, which helps justify the subscription cost. That being said, I don't play WoW or particularly agree with all of Blizzard's business practices, particularly a cash shop (or content gated behind a pay wall) on top of a subscription fee.
All I really have left to say is that I'm definitely not the one trying to justify box price, content behind a pay wall and a subscription. Is Zenimax paying you for your support or is it just some sort of private crusade?
Most popular, not best. Popularity can be measured, "best" is a matter of opinion.
I'm not paid, and it's not a crusade. I'm just enjoying the conversations. As soon as the irritation of dealing with trolls and morons (not accusing you of being either, but there are a lot on this forum) becomes greater than the enjoyment I'm getting from the conversations, I'll go do something else. Or when Arrow has been on long enough that I can start watching without commercials. Whichever comes first.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
The simple answer is, it's not a closed market. What they get out of it is players. Everything has a cost. Sometimes you get more money, sometimes you get less players. They can do whatever they want and charge whatever they want, but obviously they can't make everyone see what they're charging as worth paying.
Everyone else used to give you everything for the sub fee, it's what the paying player expects. Once you step away from that players now have to decide if this new same fee but less game is worth it. Wow got away with it because it's wow. A new game doesn't have 10 years of content under it's belt.
MMO "Veterans" expect it, if and only if they haven't been paying attention to recent market trends. I think it would be more accurate at this point to say that people (the ones who have been paying attention) *want* everything for the sub fee, but expect that that isn't what is going to actually happen.
And it requires a lot of assumptions to say that it's less game for the same money. There is never any way to be certain that content offered for an extra fee is content they would have provided as part of the sub if they decided to fully avoid microtransactions. It could just be content they wouldn't have provided at all.
My advice, to anyone, is try a game when it hits open beta. Don't pay any attention to any details of the revenue model until after you play the game. If you play, and don't have fun, the revenue model is irrelevant. If you play and enjoy yourself, ask yourself how much that enjoyment is worth. Only then should people look at the revenue model and decide whether the price being asked is worth it for the content being provided. Trying to base decisions on arbitrary rules about how developers "should" charge just seems silly to me. It's about getting a reasonable amount of fun for your time and money invested. As long as that is happening, the revenue mechanisms shouldn't be relevant.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Here's a quote from an interview with Matt Firor back in August of 2013. All I have to say is: LOL
"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch. This type of experience is best paired with a one-time fee per month, as opposed to many smaller payments that would probably add up to more than $14.99/month any way."
Does anyone have a better argument than "because other games did it that way" to support *why* you should get everything for the purchase price plus a subscription? What is in it for Zenimax if they did it that way?
The retaining of their dignity maybe? That would be incentive enough, but money talks and bullshit walks. I don't care about the map, mount, rings, and mudcrab. That stuff is standard for all MMOs. I do very much care that the entire game is offered to me through only pre-order and that my favorite race is worth 90 bucks apparently. If i wait until after launch i guess i'm just shit out of luck. All races should come with the standard "i just picked this up at gamestop after launch" package like every other game that is not a scam. Look, you guys can defend this all day, and others will be outraged by it. Buy the game, have your fun, and i hope you enjoy it, i truly do. I will never partake. I will be told "my loss", but to me i dodged a bullet.
The retaining of their dignity maybe? That would be incentive enough, but money talks and bullshit walks. I don't care about the map, mount, rings, and mudcrab. That stuff is standard for all MMOs. I do very much care that the entire game is offered to me through only pre-order and that my favorite race is worth 90 bucks apparently. If i wait until after launch i guess i'm just shit out of luck. All races should come with the standard "i just picked this up at gamestop after launch" package like every other game that is not a scam. Look, you guys can defend this all day, and others will be outraged by it. Buy the game, have your fun, and i hope you enjoy it, i truly do. I will never partake. I will be told "my loss", but to me i dodged a bullet.
Dignity? Lol.
What it comes down to is that, regardless of what you think of their choices here, the gaming population as a whole is almost certainly going to reward them for those choices. And if they do, that means their choices were correct, because their job is to make as much money as possible. Those who don't like it need to be working to convince consumers to behave differently, not raging at the companies for acting responsibly.
As for whether it's your loss, there is no guarantee you would have enjoyed the game, so not necessarily.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
What it comes down to is that, regardless of what you think of their choices here, the gaming population as a whole is almost certainly going to reward them for those choices. And if they do, that means their choices were correct, because their job is to make as much money as possible. Those who don't like it need to be working to convince consumers to behave differently, not raging at the companies for acting responsibly.
As for whether it's your loss, there is no guarantee you would have enjoyed the game, so not necessarily.
Hey, laugh at me all you want about dignity, but having a great reputation as a company is something that should be treasured. This is a matter of principle for me. They just crossed the line, flying over it in a jumbo jet that will be paid for by consumers who keep giving an inch more every time and these companies are taking miles. I won't be a part of it. it's a joke, it's disgusting, and i hope this bites them in the ass down the road. Sure, their goal is to make money. The sheep will throw money at them. not me. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, i guess. Best of luck to you.
Hey, laugh at me all you want about dignity, but having a great reputation as a company is something that should be treasured. This is a matter of principle for me. They just crossed the line, flying over it in a jumbo jet that will be paid for by consumers who keep giving an inch more every time and these companies are taking miles. I won't be a part of it. it's a joke, it's disgusting, and i hope this bites them in the ass down the road. Sure, their goal is to make money. The sheep will throw money at them. not me. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, i guess. Best of luck to you.
Good luck to you too, enjoy whatever it is you decide to play. EQN looks promising, if a bit of a wait.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
If they release an expansion that includes a race which can only be played by those play the expansion, that is the equivalent of a racial unlock in a cash shop. The fact that it is packaged with other content doesn't change the reality that it is a race behind a pay wall.
No it definitely isn't. An expansion is new content produced after the game launches. This is something they are cutting out of the main game and charging extra for. This is a lot closer to day one DLC in single player games. A practice which I also dislike.
No it definitely isn't. An expansion is new content produced after the game launches. This is something they are cutting out of the main game and charging extra for. This is a lot closer to day one DLC in single player games. A practice which I also dislike.
It's only "cutting out" if they intended to include the Imperial even if there were no collector's edition. Otherwise it is content specifically produced as a special edition bonus, with the intent to gain added revenue.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
It's only "cutting out" if they intended to include the Imperial even if there were no collector's edition. Otherwise it is content specifically produced as a special edition bonus, with the intent to gain added revenue.
I honestly don't see the difference beyond extreme hair-splitting but if you want to tell yourself that that makes the practice better then that's your choice to make I guess.
So explain to me how if I buy this game a month down the line (for obvious reasons like making sure the game actually has substance *cough*NDA hiding a lot of info* and me not being able to set down a 60$ investment. How will I, dear sir, be able to play with friends in another race or get the Imperial faction?
Play with friends in any faction by making a character of one of that factions races.
The Imperial race you shouldn't feel entitled to at all. As of now, the only people playing as an Imperial will be those who have invested more money than you were willing to. You may be able to unlock it later, but that's a chance you'll have to take in order to play it safe and wait to see how the game is.
I think the people that have invested more money should have to pay a higher subscription fee every month to maintain their exclusive bonus. Say $20 monthly instead of $15. I mean, there is nothing saying they are entitled to retain that bonus beyond the initial month included with the box price.
That's only sort of sarcasm. The other part of me would like to see it happen, just because people get what they deserve... and in this case, ask for as well.
You're free to form whatever opinion that you desire on what you feel would be fair. But you're wrong that there's nothing to say that those who pay more are entitled to keep that bonus; Zenimax says those 'Imperial' customers are entitled to keep that bonus for the same standard monthly fee as a standard box customer.
Given the content length, suggested leveling speed from what I hear, and size of the world, the people hoping for f2p aren't going to see even the possibility until about 1.5 to 2 years after launch. IF they deliver on the large content updates suggested then it may not even go f2p even then. If content doesn't come as fast as expected unless they go Freemium or give a free trial up to level 15 (50 is cap so not that small) or something like that then I doubt it will ever go truly F2P within a 4-5 year life cycle, but more of a middle ground hybrid in 2 years seems at least likely.
Comments
I would agree-
I sure will not be buying this now, for whatever its worth.
I have been 'on the fence' about this game anyhow but had stated many, many times I WILL be purchasing this since I have played every ES game since Daggerfall (played arena as well, but not for very long)
I am off the fence. Hope it crashes and burns not because I want the game itself to fail (i dont) but I want this encroachment stopped. Its already essentially ruined the hobby imho and the nicke and diming for everything is going to continue until we ALL vote with out wallets (which is unlikely) and so the slippery slope will probably become a cliff.
Skyrim also doesn't have a persistent online world with PvP, grouping, and (theoretically) no additional cost content updates.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Look into racial skill lines (not cosmetic - and that is the issue). If it had just been a skin you would have had complaints but it would have been nothing new. This is the first time I have seen the triple dip (box, sub and cash shop) before launch, but sadly not the first time I have seen people defend the poor billion dollar company from the evil greedy consumer.
Somebody pointed out that shadowbane did this.
I don't know what other games offered as I tend not to pay attention to collector's editons.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think GW2 has that too, along with the cash shop. Only they don't have the sub fee... weird.
I believe you are mistaken if you think the additional costs are going towards anything other than investor dividends. TESO doesn't have magically high costs compared to every other MMORPG out there. Time will tell if the subscription is justifiable, but it's just as likely that the content updates are crap and the sub is a scam. Now, if the content updates are meaningful and worthwhile updates, I can agree with the subscription. Gating content behind a pay wall (and the cash shop that will assist in this), a box price AND a subscription? Only stupid consumers can justify that.
Edit: Also, the content updates would be at the additional cost of a subscription fee. The days of a subscription fee ONLY providing access to servers are behind us. With all the F2P options, a company needs to justify a subscription.
True but the point is not that ESO shouldn't have a sub it's that it if it's going to have a box and a sub you should get everything gameplay related in the game without having to buy a collector's edition on top of that. A B2P single player game without a sub is different.
So all the people who play WoW (still the largest chunk of the MMO market) are stupid? Because they still have a sub, and they have a cash shop, and you still have to pay for every expansion when you want to see new content, and some of those expansions have included new classes and/or races which couldn't be played until you ponied up for the expansion.
Does anyone have a better argument than "because other games did it that way" to support *why* you should get everything for the purchase price plus a subscription? What is in it for Zenimax if they did it that way?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
haha Q_Q more..
I get the frustration of being unable to afford a fancy CE. But this is a company that is not F2P, at least not for a good 6 months (hopefully longer). Let them make the money they need to pay the $220,000,000 (speculative) bill of bringing an mmo that believes in some sense of RPG.
I want them to have a cosmetic cash shop as well, if this means that we can avoid F2P for as long as possible.
Let me know when WoW adds racial unlocks to their cash shop...
They can charge what they like but I don't have to buy it or like it
. Basic economics, if you raise the price of something too high you actually start to make less money.
I would say that it does get a pass on some things because it's the best MMORPG currently available. Also, it's my understanding that they regularly release compelling raid content throughout the life cycle of each expansion, which helps justify the subscription cost. That being said, I don't play WoW or particularly agree with all of Blizzard's business practices, particularly a cash shop (or content gated behind a pay wall) on top of a subscription fee.
All I really have left to say is that I'm definitely not the one trying to justify box price, content behind a pay wall and a subscription. Is Zenimax paying you for your support or is it just some sort of private crusade?
The simple answer is, it's not a closed market. What they get out of it is players. Everything has a cost. Sometimes you get more money, sometimes you get less players. They can do whatever they want and charge whatever they want, but obviously they can't make everyone see what they're charging as worth paying.
Everyone else used to give you everything for the sub fee, it's what the paying player expects. Once you step away from that players now have to decide if this new same fee but less game is worth it. Wow got away with it because it's wow. A new game doesn't have 10 years of content under it's belt.
If they release an expansion that includes a race which can only be played by those play the expansion, that is the equivalent of a racial unlock in a cash shop. The fact that it is packaged with other content doesn't change the reality that it is a race behind a pay wall.
And you are right that you don't have to buy it or like it. But if I were you, I wouldn't get my hopes up that enough people share your view to stop the direction the industry is moving in.
Most popular, not best. Popularity can be measured, "best" is a matter of opinion.
I'm not paid, and it's not a crusade. I'm just enjoying the conversations. As soon as the irritation of dealing with trolls and morons (not accusing you of being either, but there are a lot on this forum) becomes greater than the enjoyment I'm getting from the conversations, I'll go do something else. Or when Arrow has been on long enough that I can start watching without commercials. Whichever comes first.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
MMO "Veterans" expect it, if and only if they haven't been paying attention to recent market trends. I think it would be more accurate at this point to say that people (the ones who have been paying attention) *want* everything for the sub fee, but expect that that isn't what is going to actually happen.
And it requires a lot of assumptions to say that it's less game for the same money. There is never any way to be certain that content offered for an extra fee is content they would have provided as part of the sub if they decided to fully avoid microtransactions. It could just be content they wouldn't have provided at all.
My advice, to anyone, is try a game when it hits open beta. Don't pay any attention to any details of the revenue model until after you play the game. If you play, and don't have fun, the revenue model is irrelevant. If you play and enjoy yourself, ask yourself how much that enjoyment is worth. Only then should people look at the revenue model and decide whether the price being asked is worth it for the content being provided. Trying to base decisions on arbitrary rules about how developers "should" charge just seems silly to me. It's about getting a reasonable amount of fun for your time and money invested. As long as that is happening, the revenue mechanisms shouldn't be relevant.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Here's a quote from an interview with Matt Firor back in August of 2013. All I have to say is: LOL
"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch. This type of experience is best paired with a one-time fee per month, as opposed to many smaller payments that would probably add up to more than $14.99/month any way."
The retaining of their dignity maybe? That would be incentive enough, but money talks and bullshit walks. I don't care about the map, mount, rings, and mudcrab. That stuff is standard for all MMOs. I do very much care that the entire game is offered to me through only pre-order and that my favorite race is worth 90 bucks apparently. If i wait until after launch i guess i'm just shit out of luck. All races should come with the standard "i just picked this up at gamestop after launch" package like every other game that is not a scam. Look, you guys can defend this all day, and others will be outraged by it. Buy the game, have your fun, and i hope you enjoy it, i truly do. I will never partake. I will be told "my loss", but to me i dodged a bullet.
Dignity? Lol.
What it comes down to is that, regardless of what you think of their choices here, the gaming population as a whole is almost certainly going to reward them for those choices. And if they do, that means their choices were correct, because their job is to make as much money as possible. Those who don't like it need to be working to convince consumers to behave differently, not raging at the companies for acting responsibly.
As for whether it's your loss, there is no guarantee you would have enjoyed the game, so not necessarily.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Hey, laugh at me all you want about dignity, but having a great reputation as a company is something that should be treasured. This is a matter of principle for me. They just crossed the line, flying over it in a jumbo jet that will be paid for by consumers who keep giving an inch more every time and these companies are taking miles. I won't be a part of it. it's a joke, it's disgusting, and i hope this bites them in the ass down the road. Sure, their goal is to make money. The sheep will throw money at them. not me. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, i guess. Best of luck to you.
Good luck to you too, enjoy whatever it is you decide to play. EQN looks promising, if a bit of a wait.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I will sub. I don't have a choice and as far as the cash shop goes they can stick it where the sun don't shine.
I will mush rather pay a subscription fee to ESO than paying a sub. for FFXIV with their most ridiculous and boring missions.
No it definitely isn't. An expansion is new content produced after the game launches. This is something they are cutting out of the main game and charging extra for. This is a lot closer to day one DLC in single player games. A practice which I also dislike.
It's only "cutting out" if they intended to include the Imperial even if there were no collector's edition. Otherwise it is content specifically produced as a special edition bonus, with the intent to gain added revenue.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I honestly don't see the difference beyond extreme hair-splitting but if you want to tell yourself that that makes the practice better then that's your choice to make I guess.
You're free to form whatever opinion that you desire on what you feel would be fair. But you're wrong that there's nothing to say that those who pay more are entitled to keep that bonus; Zenimax says those 'Imperial' customers are entitled to keep that bonus for the same standard monthly fee as a standard box customer.