I kinda have to laugh at the people whining about this. The constant posts from a handful of upset people have driven up the viSibility of the game, right before launch.
I had stopped even following this game quite some time ago...but posts like this one have caught my attention. Basically, the whiners may be resulting in the game getting MORE initial sales, simply because they got attention from many people who hadn't been paying attention before.
I just think it's irritating because if they get away with this I know we will see useful game-effecting pre-order and CE exclusives in a lot of games from now on.
Honestly, I hope we do. I like to buy Collector's Editions, but it is more fun when the in-game bonuses don't suck, which they almost always do. And this is an extremely reasonably priced CE. The industry is moving in the direction of sub + microtransactions anyway, I'm kind of happy some of the stuff that would otherwise end up in a cash shop is ending up in CEs and as pre-order bonuses too.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Pyatra Given the content length, suggested leveling speed from what I hear, and size of the world, the people hoping for f2p aren't going to see even the possibility until about 1.5 to 2 years after launch. IF they deliver on the large content updates suggested then it may not even go f2p even then. If content doesn't come as fast as expected unless they go Freemium or give a free trial up to level 15 (50 is cap so not that small) or something like that then I doubt it will ever go truly F2P within a 4-5 year life cycle, but more of a middle ground hybrid in 2 years seems at least likely.
That doesn't take game play into account. If the game itself plays badly people won't renew their subs. ESO will be forced to alter their strategy. Just as SWTOR did. Companies have a way of relying heavily on a games reputation so they feel they don't have to be innovative or ground breaking. They figure the theme itself will justify less quality and higher prices.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
That doesn't take game play into account. If the game itself plays badly people won't renew their subs. ESO will be forced to alter their strategy. Just as SWTOR did. Companies have a way of relying heavily on a games reputation so they feel they don't have to be innovative or ground breaking. They figure the theme itself will justify less quality and higher prices.
People not renewing their subs doesn't necessarily mean anything about the game was done poorly. Often it just means they finished the non-repeatable content, and aren't the kind of players who are interested in repeatable content. Most players aren't hardcore raiders or avid PvPers, when they run out of solo/small group PvE content, they tend to walk.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Havekk Its just note of that "I want everything" mentality that's ruining games to begin with.
It's not a ''I want everything'' mentality coming from the players. The freeking president of the company (Matt Firor) said that the subscription would give you everything... That is what he said a few months back... So I am wrong to think that the sub would give me access to everything... when that's his exact words... ?
Your mentality is the one ruining games... because of people like you we have subs + cash shop...
Hey, I am confused. Do we pay for pre-order additional money or not? If not, then what are your talking about?
Even Imperial addition - if you did not want to play Imperial race- will give you nothing additional. And even if you did, I bet the actual difference in game play would be just cosmetic. All that raging I believe absolutely inconsistent, and comes from ignorant people, or people with hidden agenda.
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?
This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.
So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.
Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.
i doubt very seriously that is the case..If the imperial race is available through a pre-order, it makes sense that eventually the Imperials will be available to everyone. say like when you get your first character to level 50..just like WOW did with the death knight. i really seriously doubt that the only way people will be able to play the imperial race is only through pre-order, or even in a cash shop , when they have already said "if we do have a cash shop in game, it will purely be cosmetic and will not enhance a charter in any way, shape of form, and can be totally ignored"..and they have said.."we dont want to put pay gates anywhere in game, the $15 sub fee will give you access to everything the game has to offer"..they have not wavered from those statements at all ..I think you are reading WAY to much into this and just purely speculating.
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions.
So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.
Welcome to 2013, or should I say 2012! Exclusive-P2P-based games are "almost" becoming extinct. There are only 7 games released prior to 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model). There are only 3 games released post 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model).
Every other MMORPG that started out using the P2P business model either shut down, went F2P, went F2P and P2W, or ended up with a hybrid model that may or may not include some sort of P2W tactics. That isn't to say that no more games will initially release using a P2P model, but how long do those usually last nowadays?
Just the fact that in the past 9 years only 3 games (released during that time) continue to exclusively use the P2P model should at least raise an eyebrow... or two.
Loving my Imperial Pre-Order I bought this morning. Can't wait for the Physical CE to arrive at Best Buy so I can get that for my kids b-day. He can put the statue next to his dragon from the Skyrim CE I bought him.
Originally posted by dumpcat Loving my Imperial Pre-Order I bought this morning. Can't wait for the Physical CE to arrive at Best Buy so I can get that for my kids b-day. He can put the statue next to his dragon from the Skyrim CE I bought him.
Originally posted by dumpcat Loving my Imperial Pre-Order I bought this morning. Can't wait for the Physical CE to arrive at Best Buy so I can get that for my kids b-day. He can put the statue next to his dragon from the Skyrim CE I bought him.
Originally posted by dumpcat Loving my Imperial Pre-Order I bought this morning. Can't wait for the Physical CE to arrive at Best Buy so I can get that for my kids b-day. He can put the statue next to his dragon from the Skyrim CE I bought him.
you are a good parent
A good parent wouldn't force a kid to play this game ...it's like sending a kid to take music lessons when all his friends are outside playing football
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions.
So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.
Welcome to 2013, or should I say 2012! Exclusive-P2P-based games are "almost" becoming extinct. There are only 7 games released prior to 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model). There are only 3 games released post 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model).
Buying clothes and mounts should not count against a game being sub because they don't effect gameplay at all. If WoW sells a sparkle horse that doesn't make it either F2P or P2W. I know it is convenient for F2P advocates to equate even the most harmless cosmetic cash shop with games which sell power or convenience items but the two things are not even similar.
The way I see it Cosmetic items like mounts and clothes are fine in a P2P game. Anything which actually effects gameplay is not fine.
Originally posted by iridescence The way I see it Cosmetic items like mounts and clothes are fine in a P2P game. Anything which actually effects gameplay is not fine.
Cosmetic items could have been put into a crafting system or a pet system into the game. Something the players could have made or tamed themselves. Devs could take fluff, and make their non combat systems more robust. May not be important to people who dont care about non combat activities, but for players like myself, its kind of a deal breaker.
"Welcome to 2013, or should I say 2012! Exclusive-P2P-based games are "almost" becoming extinct. There are only 7 games released prior to 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model). There are only 3 games released post 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model)."
This is not an accurate way to look at it. Zenimax and Carbine are just trying to maximize the return on their pretty significant investment.
The sub model works for some games because the draw of the game is deep but not wide. So for people like me who like mmos - I am going to buy it. I like MMOS and I want to buy the best produced and best funded games. It woudl take a very expensive game to prevent me from checking it out - assuming i believe its a top quality AAA title.
Its the same deal with final fantasy XIV. Personally I bought the game and didn't play more then a month because I think its extremely outdated and very underwhelming in its design - especially the outside 'zones.' But it holds a deep appeal to some. The appeal of such a game is not 'wide' because its very old school. There aren't a few million people that want to play FFXIV and dont because of cost.
It's all about making more money. If GW2 had sold say 12 or 15 million copies then copies like Zenimax would say whoops the appeal of this game is very wide we should make it buy to play and maximize our return. Instead GW2 sells 3 to 4 million copies and they say whoops - GW2 blew some money there. They could have charged even a small sub - sold 2 million copies and come out ahead.
Personally I think these guys are likely correct. They do market research. They have a decent handle on how many sales they would get with the different models and how much money they would make had they implemented the various systems. I personally like GW2 buy to play the most. But its about which system maximizes profit.
Moving to buy to play or freenium doesn't even signify failure - companies might choose to do this after milking the hardcore fans at the start with the sub fees. Its all just business. I am happy we are getting new games and that companies are trying to compete. This game remains a day 1 buy for me.
Seriously, what's up with all the cash shop hyperbole? People are jumping to a lot of conclusions, based on zero facts. Personally, as long as any items for sale don't give anyone an unfair advantage in the game, I don't give a crap. If you feel you absolutely must have something just because it looks cool and you're irate that you have ot pay for it, maybe that says something more about your own scewy priorities than anything else. If you see a kid in school who has he latest, coolest sneakers that cost $200, do you feel compelled to buy a pair for yourself, even if you don't really need them? If so, then I guess, yeah, you'd be pissed about an ingame cash shop, even if the fancy looking shoes for sale there don't actually make you run faster or make you invisible, or do anything else besides look good.
And I don't mind paying a subscription as long as the developers keep adding new content and I'm having fun. Apparently many of you have a LOT of free time on your hands to play games, but unfortunately not all of us do, including me. If I really enjoy playing this game - and I might not, I'm waiting to see - then it will likely be the ONLY game I have time to play regularly on a week to week basis, and I'd consider it a bargain for $15 a month. For what ONE major new console game will cost you, and that you could probably beat within 24 hours, you could play this game every day for four to five months. Okay, okay, I know, that doesn't include the up-front purchase you have to make for the game, but you get my point. You can get a lot more for your money in the long run paying a subscription for a game like this - and if and when you quit having fun, you stop paying for it. I figure if you enjoy it for even just a couple of months, then you've gotten your money's worth. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer it if every MMO had a payment model like GW2, but I'm not going to boycott a game just because it doesn't.
However... although I don't really have a problem with subscriptions, I will say that it would be nice if some of these publishers with a subscription model didn't make you also pay the additional cash up front to buy the game. I get that they want to try to at least recoup a significant portion of their investment in the game right at the start, so that even if they don't get the subs they're looking for it's not a total loss, but if they really had faith in their game and believed that players would like it enough to stick with it for a while, then the subscriptions alone should be sufficient. OR...they could charge the initial $59.99 or $79.99 or whatever it is, but include three or four months of "free" play with it, instead of just the one month. I think we'd all consider that a much better deal!
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions.
So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.
Welcome to 2013, or should I say 2012! Exclusive-P2P-based games are "almost" becoming extinct. There are only 7 games released prior to 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model). There are only 3 games released post 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model).
Buying clothes and mounts should not count against a game being sub because they don't effect gameplay at all. If WoW sells a sparkle horse that doesn't make it either F2P or P2W. I know it is convenient for F2P advocates to equate even the most harmless cosmetic cash shop with games which sell power or convenience items but the two things are not even similar.
The way I see it Cosmetic items like mounts and clothes are fine in a P2P game. Anything which actually effects gameplay is not fine.
There is absolutely no place for cash shop in P2P games. Even for cosmetics. If i decide to grind three months to get some good looking cape (actually not gonna happen as i hate grind) i expect every other person who want that cape to go through the same hell i had to. Otherwise fuck this crap. If they want to sell stuff, there is FTP or BTP.
I agree. How many times did I have to make the run in Sebilis on my SK in EQ2 and kill Kotiz to get a mount?? I didn't count but it took a long ass time, and I was one of the few people who could solo it. Then low and behold station cash gives you the exact same mount with the click of a button. I am pretty sure that was when I uninstalled the game and quit. Cash shop has no place in a P2P game, or a B2P game for that matter.
At first I was mostly surprised by how these pre-order bonuses effectively cast aside the lore they build the game upon.
Right.
So when I saw PvP in an over 10 year-old franchise that was pure PvE (game doesn't even have Co-op), it became tainted meat...untouchable.
If Bethesda "opens new horizons" by including the PvP element in their offline RPGs, the franchise is dead to me from that point on. I'll just mod the older games, instead, for more PvE immersion.
A good parent wouldn't force a kid to play this game ...it's like sending a kid to take music lessons when all his friends are outside playing football
Which works out great if you have a kid who prefers music to football.
Originally posted by cura
There is absolutely no place for cash shop in P2P games. Even for cosmetics. If i decide to grind three months to get some good looking cape (actually not gonna happen as i hate grind) i expect every other person who want that cape to go through the same hell i had to. Otherwise fuck this crap. If they want to sell stuff, there is FTP or BTP.
No place huh? Interesting then that all the most successful released games that have subscriptions also have some form of cash shop.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
There is absolutely no place for cash shop in P2P games. Even for cosmetics. If i decide to grind three months to get some good looking cape (actually not gonna happen as i hate grind) i expect every other person who want that cape to go through the same hell i had to. Otherwise fuck this crap. If they want to sell stuff, there is FTP or BTP.
I don't disagree with you but look at the new games coming out. Realistically I think we have to choose between cosmetic cash shops and gameplay-related cash shops and in that case I definitely think cosmetic cash shops is by far the lesser evil. There is no way companies are going to totally give up on cash shops and go back to just subs. They make way too much money on microtransactions. Pandora's box has already been opened unfortunately.
No place huh? Interesting then that all the most successful released games that have subscriptions also have some form of cash shop.
Name a single game (besides World of Warcraft, and if WOW does it that means its great and everyone should do it ) that has a FORCED subscription to log into the game at all AND a cash shop.
Also as far as "successful" it what terms, they were awesome games that you couldnt get enough of or they made a lot of money?
ESO wasnt going to be the blockbuster people thought it was anyway. This just makes the decision for many a lot easier to save their money and when it goes free to play or buy to play at about half the cost or less in box price play it then if anyone is left.
But thats the problem THIS game will make a ton of money. Probably 400+ million but if theyre free to play in 9 months and they have 50K people after launching with a couple million how would you define them? A success because they made half a billion dollars or a failure because they did what every gaming company for the past decade has done and released a generic MMO with a big name title and netted a shit ton of money.
Name a single game (besides World of Warcraft, and if WOW does it that means its great and everyone should do it ) that has a FORCED subscription to log into the game at all AND a cash shop.
Also as far as "successful" it what terms, they were awesome games that you couldnt get enough of or they made a lot of money?
ESO wasnt going to be the blockbuster people thought it was anyway. This just makes the decision for many a lot easier to save their money and when it goes free to play or buy to play at about half the cost or less in box price play it then if anyone is left.
But thats the problem THIS game will make a ton of money. Probably 400+ million but if theyre free to play in 9 months and they have 50K people after launching with a couple million how would you define them? A success because they made half a billion dollars or a failure because they did what every gaming company for the past decade has done and released a generic MMO with a big name title and netted a shit ton of money.
Whether a game is successful, and whether a game is awesome, are two unfortunately completely unrelated questions. These are products, they are successful when they turn a profit, no matter how many people honestly think they suck. I think you severely overestimate the post-launch downturn. Supposedly TOR is maintaining half a million subscribers; not just players, subscribers. If TOR can do that this long after launch, with a free option, ESO *easily* can. And I say that as someone who prefers TOR to any other currently released MMO.
Now, I don't actually play EvE, but I know they did have a cash shop, and I never heard anything about it being removed, so that would be another sub only game with a cash shop. Other than EvE and WoW, let's be realistic, can you name one sub only game that has a large enough sustained population (the people who stick around after the post-launch subscriber drain seems to have leveled off) to justify the cost of adjusting the game's model in a substantial way? It isn't free to add a cash shop, a lot of work goes into it.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Sub games are not dead but such a high price for the box plus sub is not a viable business model and we need to echo that with our wallets.
I enjoy paying a subscription to support and get the full benefit of my favourite games. However I also know when someone is trying to rip me off. And my gamer sense is going tingly mad with warning.
Its okay, I understand people who have bought it and cannot wait to play the game, Im with you guys really I am. However I won't be one of your possible friends who play it with you.
Comments
I had stopped even following this game quite some time ago...but posts like this one have caught my attention. Basically, the whiners may be resulting in the game getting MORE initial sales, simply because they got attention from many people who hadn't been paying attention before.
Honestly, I hope we do. I like to buy Collector's Editions, but it is more fun when the in-game bonuses don't suck, which they almost always do. And this is an extremely reasonably priced CE. The industry is moving in the direction of sub + microtransactions anyway, I'm kind of happy some of the stuff that would otherwise end up in a cash shop is ending up in CEs and as pre-order bonuses too.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
That doesn't take game play into account. If the game itself plays badly people won't renew their subs. ESO will be forced to alter their strategy. Just as SWTOR did. Companies have a way of relying heavily on a games reputation so they feel they don't have to be innovative or ground breaking. They figure the theme itself will justify less quality and higher prices.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
People not renewing their subs doesn't necessarily mean anything about the game was done poorly. Often it just means they finished the non-repeatable content, and aren't the kind of players who are interested in repeatable content. Most players aren't hardcore raiders or avid PvPers, when they run out of solo/small group PvE content, they tend to walk.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Hey, I am confused. Do we pay for pre-order additional money or not? If not, then what are your talking about?
Even Imperial addition - if you did not want to play Imperial race- will give you nothing additional. And even if you did, I bet the actual difference in game play would be just cosmetic. All that raging I believe absolutely inconsistent, and comes from ignorant people, or people with hidden agenda.
I agree
i doubt very seriously that is the case..If the imperial race is available through a pre-order, it makes sense that eventually the Imperials will be available to everyone. say like when you get your first character to level 50..just like WOW did with the death knight. i really seriously doubt that the only way people will be able to play the imperial race is only through pre-order, or even in a cash shop , when they have already said "if we do have a cash shop in game, it will purely be cosmetic and will not enhance a charter in any way, shape of form, and can be totally ignored"..and they have said.."we dont want to put pay gates anywhere in game, the $15 sub fee will give you access to everything the game has to offer"..they have not wavered from those statements at all ..I think you are reading WAY to much into this and just purely speculating.
Welcome to 2013, or should I say 2012! Exclusive-P2P-based games are "almost" becoming extinct. There are only 7 games released prior to 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model). There are only 3 games released post 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model).
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5965024#5965024
Every other MMORPG that started out using the P2P business model either shut down, went F2P, went F2P and P2W, or ended up with a hybrid model that may or may not include some sort of P2W tactics. That isn't to say that no more games will initially release using a P2P model, but how long do those usually last nowadays?
Just the fact that in the past 9 years only 3 games (released during that time) continue to exclusively use the P2P model should at least raise an eyebrow... or two.
you are a good parent
Agreed
A good parent wouldn't force a kid to play this game ...it's like sending a kid to take music lessons when all his friends are outside playing football
Buying clothes and mounts should not count against a game being sub because they don't effect gameplay at all. If WoW sells a sparkle horse that doesn't make it either F2P or P2W. I know it is convenient for F2P advocates to equate even the most harmless cosmetic cash shop with games which sell power or convenience items but the two things are not even similar.
The way I see it Cosmetic items like mounts and clothes are fine in a P2P game. Anything which actually effects gameplay is not fine.
Cosmetic items could have been put into a crafting system or a pet system into the game. Something the players could have made or tamed themselves. Devs could take fluff, and make their non combat systems more robust. May not be important to people who dont care about non combat activities, but for players like myself, its kind of a deal breaker.
"Welcome to 2013, or should I say 2012! Exclusive-P2P-based games are "almost" becoming extinct. There are only 7 games released prior to 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model). There are only 3 games released post 2005 that still use the P2P business model (no hybrid model)."
This is not an accurate way to look at it. Zenimax and Carbine are just trying to maximize the return on their pretty significant investment.
The sub model works for some games because the draw of the game is deep but not wide. So for people like me who like mmos - I am going to buy it. I like MMOS and I want to buy the best produced and best funded games. It woudl take a very expensive game to prevent me from checking it out - assuming i believe its a top quality AAA title.
Its the same deal with final fantasy XIV. Personally I bought the game and didn't play more then a month because I think its extremely outdated and very underwhelming in its design - especially the outside 'zones.' But it holds a deep appeal to some. The appeal of such a game is not 'wide' because its very old school. There aren't a few million people that want to play FFXIV and dont because of cost.
It's all about making more money. If GW2 had sold say 12 or 15 million copies then copies like Zenimax would say whoops the appeal of this game is very wide we should make it buy to play and maximize our return. Instead GW2 sells 3 to 4 million copies and they say whoops - GW2 blew some money there. They could have charged even a small sub - sold 2 million copies and come out ahead.
Personally I think these guys are likely correct. They do market research. They have a decent handle on how many sales they would get with the different models and how much money they would make had they implemented the various systems. I personally like GW2 buy to play the most. But its about which system maximizes profit.
Moving to buy to play or freenium doesn't even signify failure - companies might choose to do this after milking the hardcore fans at the start with the sub fees. Its all just business. I am happy we are getting new games and that companies are trying to compete. This game remains a day 1 buy for me.
Seriously, what's up with all the cash shop hyperbole? People are jumping to a lot of conclusions, based on zero facts. Personally, as long as any items for sale don't give anyone an unfair advantage in the game, I don't give a crap. If you feel you absolutely must have something just because it looks cool and you're irate that you have ot pay for it, maybe that says something more about your own scewy priorities than anything else. If you see a kid in school who has he latest, coolest sneakers that cost $200, do you feel compelled to buy a pair for yourself, even if you don't really need them? If so, then I guess, yeah, you'd be pissed about an ingame cash shop, even if the fancy looking shoes for sale there don't actually make you run faster or make you invisible, or do anything else besides look good.
And I don't mind paying a subscription as long as the developers keep adding new content and I'm having fun. Apparently many of you have a LOT of free time on your hands to play games, but unfortunately not all of us do, including me. If I really enjoy playing this game - and I might not, I'm waiting to see - then it will likely be the ONLY game I have time to play regularly on a week to week basis, and I'd consider it a bargain for $15 a month. For what ONE major new console game will cost you, and that you could probably beat within 24 hours, you could play this game every day for four to five months. Okay, okay, I know, that doesn't include the up-front purchase you have to make for the game, but you get my point. You can get a lot more for your money in the long run paying a subscription for a game like this - and if and when you quit having fun, you stop paying for it. I figure if you enjoy it for even just a couple of months, then you've gotten your money's worth. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer it if every MMO had a payment model like GW2, but I'm not going to boycott a game just because it doesn't.
However... although I don't really have a problem with subscriptions, I will say that it would be nice if some of these publishers with a subscription model didn't make you also pay the additional cash up front to buy the game. I get that they want to try to at least recoup a significant portion of their investment in the game right at the start, so that even if they don't get the subs they're looking for it's not a total loss, but if they really had faith in their game and believed that players would like it enough to stick with it for a while, then the subscriptions alone should be sufficient. OR...they could charge the initial $59.99 or $79.99 or whatever it is, but include three or four months of "free" play with it, instead of just the one month. I think we'd all consider that a much better deal!
I agree. How many times did I have to make the run in Sebilis on my SK in EQ2 and kill Kotiz to get a mount?? I didn't count but it took a long ass time, and I was one of the few people who could solo it. Then low and behold station cash gives you the exact same mount with the click of a button. I am pretty sure that was when I uninstalled the game and quit. Cash shop has no place in a P2P game, or a B2P game for that matter.
Right.
So when I saw PvP in an over 10 year-old franchise that was pure PvE (game doesn't even have Co-op), it became tainted meat...untouchable.
If Bethesda "opens new horizons" by including the PvP element in their offline RPGs, the franchise is dead to me from that point on. I'll just mod the older games, instead, for more PvE immersion.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Which works out great if you have a kid who prefers music to football.
No place huh? Interesting then that all the most successful released games that have subscriptions also have some form of cash shop.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I don't disagree with you but look at the new games coming out. Realistically I think we have to choose between cosmetic cash shops and gameplay-related cash shops and in that case I definitely think cosmetic cash shops is by far the lesser evil. There is no way companies are going to totally give up on cash shops and go back to just subs. They make way too much money on microtransactions. Pandora's box has already been opened unfortunately.
Name a single game (besides World of Warcraft, and if WOW does it that means its great and everyone should do it ) that has a FORCED subscription to log into the game at all AND a cash shop.
Also as far as "successful" it what terms, they were awesome games that you couldnt get enough of or they made a lot of money?
ESO wasnt going to be the blockbuster people thought it was anyway. This just makes the decision for many a lot easier to save their money and when it goes free to play or buy to play at about half the cost or less in box price play it then if anyone is left.
But thats the problem THIS game will make a ton of money. Probably 400+ million but if theyre free to play in 9 months and they have 50K people after launching with a couple million how would you define them? A success because they made half a billion dollars or a failure because they did what every gaming company for the past decade has done and released a generic MMO with a big name title and netted a shit ton of money.
Whether a game is successful, and whether a game is awesome, are two unfortunately completely unrelated questions. These are products, they are successful when they turn a profit, no matter how many people honestly think they suck. I think you severely overestimate the post-launch downturn. Supposedly TOR is maintaining half a million subscribers; not just players, subscribers. If TOR can do that this long after launch, with a free option, ESO *easily* can. And I say that as someone who prefers TOR to any other currently released MMO.
Now, I don't actually play EvE, but I know they did have a cash shop, and I never heard anything about it being removed, so that would be another sub only game with a cash shop. Other than EvE and WoW, let's be realistic, can you name one sub only game that has a large enough sustained population (the people who stick around after the post-launch subscriber drain seems to have leveled off) to justify the cost of adjusting the game's model in a substantial way? It isn't free to add a cash shop, a lot of work goes into it.
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Through power, I gain victory.
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I agree with the OP to an extent.
Sub games are not dead but such a high price for the box plus sub is not a viable business model and we need to echo that with our wallets.
I enjoy paying a subscription to support and get the full benefit of my favourite games. However I also know when someone is trying to rip me off. And my gamer sense is going tingly mad with warning.
Its okay, I understand people who have bought it and cannot wait to play the game, Im with you guys really I am. However I won't be one of your possible friends who play it with you.