Originally posted by surjstrife .they are making it for true fans of tokein i beleive...
true fan is a stupid term
The game probably isn't so hyped because people are : 1) waiting to see what turbine does with DDO 2) The books have a great world and history, but they are really about the fellowship of the ring.No one playing the game is going to be an active part in it, and there's no jedi type generic group to work for like SWG had to trick people into playing. So really...what are you going to be in LoTRO ?
EXACTLY MY POINT! what will there be to do? seriously with them cutting out 80% of stuff to do in LOTR and giving everyone the same help the ring bearer quests, i see htis game falling right on its ass a few months after release, UNLESS, People being a herd species as we are, see a gamer pickup the game read it identify it as crap, only to not know a 13 year old was watching him pick it up thinking it was then cool, which he then got his mom to buy, which then got his friends to buy, in turn gets his relatives to buy then finnaly his school, becomes popular in the region and then spreads like wildfire that way only to be crushed by reasons in my previous post. but hell that would e one hell of a run! THREE WORDS, CRASH AND BURN.
Um... I'm sorry? You obviously haven't done your homework. MEO (it's original name) was actually in development YEARS ago by another dev team.
Which is what I stated.
This was BEFORE the 1st movie came out, by the way.
OK, so it started game developement before the first movie released. And it is still in alpha?! Even more reason supporting the fact it will fail. No matter what the details of its past is and or were, the fact is the game still has not banked off the insane worldwide advertising of the movies - which ripped apart the box office during their time.
That team couldn't get it done to the Tolkien Foundation's standards (they're a VERY picky bunch) and got sacked.
It all leads to Tolkien's son. Who is not a gamer. Who has no experience in the computer game market, let alone the mmorpg market. He has no idea what he is getting into. Or what needs to be done to make it work .... aka when to pull the plug. Then again, maybe he got paid already for the rights. So if MEO/LotRO fails, no loss for him - just for Turbine.
Then another team picked it up... got sacked and replaced by Turbine.
Please help me with my homework - who was this other team? Can you remember their company name? Their URL?
Who then picked it up right around the time the 3rd movie came out. Then they made a BUNCH of changes (around the time the 3rd DVD came out) and now they're finally nearing release.
Again, reguardless of the specifics, my point still stands - this mmorpg has 100% missed every chance of banking off the insane hype that surrounded not 1, not 2, but 3 movies.
But yes, they definitely missed their best window of opportunity.
You fully agree with me. Have a drink on me! And they missed their window of opportunity 1,2, 3 times!
That said, however, this IS Tolkien we're talking about Easily the BEST KNOWN fantasy triology of all time. So no matter WHEN they release they'll get plenty of publicity.
From the 1950's to 1970's, yes the best known. But right now at present time? No not the best known, but definatly ONE of the best known. Which brings me to a new point to offset your point about name recignition. It goes like this:
- The majority of Tolkien fans are not computer gamers. They are fantasy fans, they read fantasy books. Fantasy fan does not automatically = computer gamer. Just like computer gamer does not automatically = fantasy book reader. There are fantasy fans who watch movies, who read books, who play boardgamers, and who play computer stand alone gamers, wjho play console gamers, who play mmorpg gamers. These are all different target markets. They are not all automatically the same market lumped together.
My favorite example is SWG. There are millions of Star Wars fans. Yet SWG peaked at roughly 330,000 total accounts. It IS possible it would've kept growing to roughly 1-2 million accounts before the Jedi Holocron mess killed its insane growth. Yet SWG was never advertised in movie theaters. The SWG game DEVs theirselves said SWG was intended for Star Wars fans who have never played a mmorpg before. Which was right on the mark! The majority of Star Wars fans are not gamers. They do not play mmorpgs. Same with the majority of Tolkien fans who also number in the millions worldwide!
- And even with the computer gamers who are Tolkien fans, they play the stand alone Tolkien games. (Some which are very good too!.) The majority of Tolkien fans most definatly are not mmorpg gamers.
- And.... of the Tolkien fans who ARE mmorpg fans, they already get/got their high from playing EverQuest first, and the other D&D/Tolkienish mmorpgs already out there. As I said before, what IS the draw to playing MEO/LotRO? Will people pay $120.oo or more per year just to be in a game officially sanctioned by the Tolkien estate? Pay a monthly fee every month for what? Are people really that gullible? I do not think so!
SWG, is the most obvious example of one of the worse cases of MISSED marketing oppertunities! Not a single mention of SWG the mmorpg during the movie trailors, or movie. Nor on the DVDs!?!?
Erm... they had an international TV Add campaign for it. That's not enough visibility for you?
No. TV ads are hit or miss. Movie trailor ads are 100% HIT, right on target. Showing an ad for SWG before "Revenge of the Sith" would specifically target every single Star Wars fan on the entire planet! In addition to showing it on DVD too! Next, ads in the movies would cost little, to nothing. LucasFilm showed how much power it has, by forcing all major theaters to carry RotS for months and months, no matter what new movies came out. LucasFilm also makes its own movies, it needs nothing from Hollywood. It goes straight from Skywalker Ranch to the movie theaters. Putting in an ad for SWG would litterally be free advertising.
Agree.
That is all there is to it. We both agreeeee! Have another drink on me!
But I don't think Vanguard is going to be as big a competition as people give it credit for. I think it'll do well if it delivers what it's promising (and I have no reason to doubt... Brad ran a strong project for EQ in the past, no reason to think this'll be different) but I don't think it's really going to be a huge issue for a title like LOTRO.
In the mmorpg market, Vanguard is a far, far, bigger name recignition than MEO/LotRO. We are talking about computer gamers here, not fantasy book readers which is a different market. There are millions of Tolkien book fans. Easily 100 million or more worldwide. There are roughly 5 million or so Tolkien gamers who play stand alone games. There are more gamers who are familiar with EQ, EQ2, and Vanguard, and Varant, Brad McQuaid, and Smeadly, their histories. More gamers are fans, followers, of Brad McQuaid/Smeadly, than followers of MEO/LotRO the mmorpg. So yes, the MIGHTY Vanguard will easily nuke MEO/LotRO. Vanguard is the least of MEO/LotRO's problems though.
The bigger issue is that Turbine has shown time and time again that they have trouble marketting any game properly.
I fully agree with you here. And I will add this NICE point of yours to my list of reasons why MEO/LotRO will fail. To this day, Turbine still cannot market its only successful mmorpg right!
It won't fail. But it won't succeed on the level that they're going to be expecting. Simply because of the design decisions they have made it won't do as well as it should. It WILL succeed, however, on name recognition if nothing else.
That is to be seen. Will MEO/LotRO be able to limp along for 1 year with a minimum of 50,000 accounts? I personally say no. If you feel MEO/LotRO will be able to survive for 1 year and still retain 50k accounts minimum, then we have a bet heheh. Even IF MEO/LotRO does make it 1 year with 50k accounts, all that will do is re-coup its investment money. It still will not be making a true profit. AC2 cost 25 million to make. MEO/LotRO is using the same game engine that was used for AC2. So this will cut costs a bit. Figure MEO/LotRO is costing roughly 15-20 million to make. AC2 never re-couped its investment money. The profits from AC1 were used to keep it on life support. IF Turbine were not making 2 mmorpgs at the same time, then they could use AC1 to help float MEO/LotRO.
SWG was successful for 2.5 years (and probably still will be despite the NGE fiasco). That alone should show you that with big names like this you really CANT go wrong... you can just go lesser degrees of 'right'. No... LOTRO won't kill Turbine... problem is it'll perpetuate the current problem with MMORPG companies not putting forward their best work.
Sorry, but SWG cannot be used as an example. SWG was already successful long before the NGE. SWG exploded to 330,000 accounts before its 1 year mark. It easily re-couped its investment money when it reached its 1 year mark. Right now SWG could drop to 50k accounts and still not be a loss, still be turning in a true profit. SWG was a bona-fid successfull mmorpg when it reached its 1 year mark. Not just successfull, but a hit success. I agree SWG at current time has gotten worse - as proven by the fact that the majority of all the vet players, core players, loooongtime loyal players - have all stopped playing.
In addition SWG had almost no direct competition when it released. AO was its only direct competition. AO had already blew its first impressoins with gamers. So the Sci-Fi mmorpg market was awaiting SWG. EvE was doing well, but was space only, while SWG was landbased only.So no cirect competition there. MEO/LotRO not only has direct competition from its own company (DDO), but from EQ, (a 99% clone of Middle Earth) as well as tons of other mmorpgs that have lesser Tolkien elements in them.
Nah EQ is more like AD&D than LOTR Remember that wood elves in AD&D lived in "tree cities". The tree city in EQ is nothing like Lothlorien. A flet didn't have houses on it in Tolkien.
Now you need to do your homework. D&D got sued by the Tolkien estate. Next, it does not matter if the D&D board game role-played Elves living in a Tree City. The subject at hand is that a new Tolkien mmorpg is being made. AND another mmorpg that is over 5 years already has every major thing in Tolkien's books, in it. If you re-read J.R.R. Tolkien's description of Lothlorien while xplooooring the Tree Elf city in EQ, it matches perfectly. In addition EQ also has ALL THE OTHER major locations in Tolkien's books - the Misty Mountains, the Shire, Rivingdale, and much, much, much, more.
Erm... because it'll say "Lord of the Rings" on the box. It will sell... that's a given.
If it were a stand alone game, I think you would be correct. But because MEO/LotRO is a mmorpg, the buying process is not as instantaneous. "Oooo Lord of the Rings! Let's get it! What? I have to pay a monthly FEE for this? $170.oo per year?! WTH?! Lets just buy a stand alone game for $50.oo!". Next, ALL mmorpgs make their profits in subscriptions, not in box sales. So even if Lorf of the Rings fans did impulse buying, sooner or later thay would cancell after the 1st month. But as I said before, the majority of the millions of Tolkien fans are in bookstores, not in computer game stores.
Just like SWG kept 250,000 subscribers for years despite shoddy devs and crap support from SOE and broken promises and 3 complete rewrites of the damn game.
Sorry but you are incorrect about SWG's history. During its years of developement, the DEVs were not shoddy. They had the best community relations out of every mmorpg ever made. They even played other online games against SWG fans. They litterally posted threads on what players wanted to see in the game, then replied to every single post. Putting in things and saying why, not putting in things and saying why.
Next, SWG peaked at 330,000 accounts. Next, you are incorrect in blaming SOE. The blame first rests with LucasArts. They killed SWG's incredible growth by going around SOE and doing their own Flash ad campaign showing SWG as another Jedi Outcast. Forcing the Jedi Hologrind mess, which stopped SWG's growth. SOE ultimatly had to/has to, answer to LucasArts and cater to their whims. Even before that, LucasArts attacked SWG fans over a certain fansite. Over exaggerating how bad it was. LucasArts is very out of touch with the SWG fans. To this day, they still do not have their own representative on the forums - even though LucasArts is the head of SWG.
Yes, SWG banked on name recignition. SWG had more than just the Star Wars name though. It had the most well known game DEVs in the entire mmorpg history working on the game. It was unofficially UO2. SWG benifited from this name recignition even more, since Ultima 0-9 is THE most successful game series ever in computer game history. If SWG were going only by name recignition, it would have failed. It would never have reached 330k accounts. Again, there are millions of Star Wars fans, but the majroity of them do not play mmorpgs. So name recignition alone will not = success. Same with MEO/LotRO. There are millions of Tolkien fans. But the majority of them do not play mmorpgs.
LOTRO is probably going to wind up in a similar situation. I guarantee it'll be more successful than AC1, on pure name recognition if nothing else.
AC1 is a poor choice of measuring success LOL! It currently has around 50k accounts. Very likely less. It is forever known as living in EQ's shadow. AC1 had the benifit of being the first of its kind when it released. It was the first 3-D mmorpg that was Skill Based.... vs EQ which was the first 3-D mmorpg, and the first 3-D mmorpg that was Level Based. So yes it might be possible MEO/LotRO reaches 50k accounts. But so what if it gets more players than AC1? AC1 cost 5 million to make. It is over 5 years old. It has long ago re-couped its own investment money. AC1 had only 1-2 other games directly compeating vs it. MEO/LotRO costs between 15-20 million to make. It will have 5-25 games directly compeating vs it, including one being made at the same time by its own company! Talk about unnecessary competition!
As long as Turbine keeps the damn thing on store shelves anyway (they're notoriously bad about neglecting to maintain shelf presence).
I fully agree with you here. But let me ask you this - IF Turbine has trouble marketing its own only successful game, do you think they will suddently, out of nowhere, become better at marketing a brand new game?
This will not be an issue.
OK, you and I fully agree here. Have another beer on me!
Soooo..... what IS the draw to playing MEO/LotRO? Be a ranger? Visit the Shire? Visit Rivingdale? Visit the Misty Mountains? Be a High Man? Visit Moria? Be a female Dwarf with a beard? Visit Lothlorien? ALL of this can be done, HAS been done... successfully in .... EverQuest.
Again: It'll succeed simply because it's tolkien. That's not to say it'll be GOOD. But it will succeed to some extent or other.
I do not think people will pay a monthly subscription just to feel like they are living inside a Tolkien world. Especially when they can do the same with EQ.
Will it be worth playing? Probably not, imo. But people WILL play it. Hell... people are playing the NGE after all.
Again, SWG was a mega success long before the NGE. So SWG cannot be used as an example. MEO/LotRO is simply EQ if EQ were officially sanctioned by the Tolkien estate. Other than that, there is no difference between MEO/LotRO and EQ. (OK, graphics might be a bit better too. ). As for game features? MEO/LotRO is bringing nothing new, nothing original, nothing revolutionary, to the mmorpg market. From what its loyal followers are saying, it is an even mroe dumbed down mmorpg. No one can be evil, no PvP between the forces of good and evil. No mounts? (Unbelieveable!?! Guess the horsemen of the plains will have to.... walk?). Shadowfax will be ummm.... ummm.... illegal to put into the game? KOS? LOL!
No matter how much I agree with someone....quoting a post line by line for a full page means someone needs to lighten up. Nothing is worth doing that.
Any game that has a pre existing fan base like starwars, lord of the ring or D&D is going to make money. It may not be a smashing success, but it won't be a bomb either.
No matter how much I agree with someone....quoting a post line by line for a full page means someone needs to lighten up. Nothing is worth doing that.
Ahhhh...we are all just a bunch of really bored gamers all having fun. IN the end we are all on the same side - the fun side!
Any game that has a pre existing fan base like starwars, lord of the ring or D&D is going to make money. It may not be a smashing success, but it won't be a bomb either.
It remains to be seen. SWG had almost no direct competition. MEO/LotRO will have tons and tons of direct competion - including from its OWN cpmpany!
LoTRO still doesn't have a firm release date so that probably means 6+ months ( though that's a total guess ) I agree it's pretty odd for a company to do two games like this but DDO may be close to a year old before lotro comes out. That's about the life expectancy of a happy fan in a MMOG. Maybe they're trying to get those happy fans into another turbine product /shrug, or thinking they'll play both.
There was a poll here about how many subscriptions do you run, and at the time I checking it, almost 40% of the voters had 2 or more.
Maybe they're just trying to avoid putting all thier eggs in one basket. Better to have 2 ok games then go for a smash and have it flop
Well before I went to the lotr: online website and read up the facts, I was pretty excited... then...
No pvp, follows storyline, no mounts (been commented on previously), cant go evil, no specific classes. Doesn't sound like a great online game. How are you meant to play with other people when theres a storyline?
I was pretty disappointed. If anyone has got their hopes up, go and take a look at the website, it'll tell you all about the game.
1. The Tolkien fanbase is too broad for a released game to ever be "late". (A game is never late, nor is it early, it arrrives exactly when it means to! ) In reference to SWG, it was a decent game, it did not "miss the window", if the game had been better, it would have done better, that simple.
2. Why the hate on Turbine? Is there another company you'd rather see producing the game? SoE perhaps (hmmm? No?) AC 1 was innovating, AC 2 was a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes, smart people learn from them.
3. I do question the fact that Turbine is taking on two MMO's at once. To me, this sounds ridiculous, but I can't see why they'd do it if they didn't know something I don't (and I'm sure they do).
4. Big names draw people to titles, but do not keep them. The gameplay will have to do that.
5. EQ is old and while it was good (interesting, addicting?) for its time, it cannot compete with the newer mmo's in terms of "things to do". There simply isn't much interaction with your character. The auto-attack AFK quip is not exactly exaggerated, unless you're nostalgic for the experience, there simply isn't much drawing "new" gamers to EQ.
I feel LOTRO (and to the same extent DDO) has as much of a chance as any (perhaps more so, due to the names) MMO in the current day becoming a hit. Though I'd say it is an ill-oppotune time to release a bad, or even average game with WoW's x-pack on the way, and the new year seeing several highly-anticipated MMO's being released.
The game play, if it is good, will speak for itself.
Sidebar: As for LOTRO's lack of mounts and PvP, I must say this is disheartening. PvP, when done after the fact, is only that much harder to implement (and is usually sub-par) Mounts should be released with the Rohan expansion.
In conclusion LOTRO will bring people in with the name, but will stand or fall on its own merits, as do all other titles.
Xplororer: How many tolkien fan sites do you visit? I'm a very avid Tolkien fan and am subscribed not only to several websites but also multiple Tolkien newsgroups.
Trust me. LOTRO is VERY well known in the Tolkien Fan community. It will not lack for a following. That's what I'm basing my statement on. Sure most tolkien fans are bookworms but never underestimate the power of news feeds in the tolkien community. People who follow tolkien know about every single title being produced based on the books. Be it a compupter game or a board game or a movie or a tv show. Once a rumor gets out it does not take long for that fan base to pick up on it.
Now, being that this is Tolkien there is quite a huge two edged sword that Turbine will have to deal with:
If they don't live up to expectations the Tolkien fan base is one BRUTAL critic.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by GrayShadow At risk of sounding like a fanboi:1. The Tolkien fanbase is too broad for a released game to ever be "late". (A game is never late, nor is it early, it arrrives exactly when it means to! ) In reference to SWG, it was a decent game, it did not "miss the window", if the game had been better, it would have done better, that simple.2. Why the hate on Turbine? Is there another company you'd rather see producing the game? SoE perhaps (hmmm? No?) AC 1 was innovating, AC 2 was a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes, smart people learn from them.3. I do question the fact that Turbine is taking on two MMO's at once. To me, this sounds ridiculous, but I can't see why they'd do it if they didn't know something I don't (and I'm sure they do).4. Big names draw people to titles, but do not keep them. The gameplay will have to do that.5. EQ is old and while it was good (interesting, addicting?) for its time, it cannot compete with the newer mmo's in terms of "things to do". There simply isn't much interaction with your character. The auto-attack AFK quip is not exactly exaggerated, unless you're nostalgic for the experience, there simply isn't much drawing "new" gamers to EQ.I feel LOTRO (and to the same extent DDO) has as much of a chance as any (perhaps more so, due to the names) MMO in the current day becoming a hit. Though I'd say it is an ill-oppotune time to release a bad, or even average game with WoW's x-pack on the way, and the new year seeing several highly-anticipated MMO's being released.The game play, if it is good, will speak for itself.Sidebar: As for LOTRO's lack of mounts and PvP, I must say this is disheartening. PvP, when done after the fact, is only that much harder to implement (and is usually sub-par) Mounts should be released with the Rohan expansion.In conclusion LOTRO will bring people in with the name, but will stand or fall on its own merits, as do all other titles.Cheers, Gray Shadow
Not hating on Turbine just stating simple facts: Turbine is over extended trying to make 2 MMO's at once. Turbine is notoriously BAD at marketting their products. Turbine has a proven track record of making sub-par games other than AC1, which was and continues to be: Slightly above average (my opinion only). Witness AC2 which didn't even manage to hold their AC1 players attention. Witness DDO which many beta testers have stated they probably won't pay for (in violation of the NDA I might add) because it feels like a hopped up version of Guildwars sans PVP that will require a monthly fee.
As to who I'd rather see producing MEO/LOTRO? Here's a list of who I'd like to see doing it, in order: 1) Mythic 2) CCP 3) NCSOFT 4) Blizzard 5) Sigil 6) SOE 7) FUNCOM
Any of those companies have a better track record than Turbine. Hell, AO had an ABYSSMAL launch and Funcom has managed to not only make it a decent game but market it well enough to have survived that fiasco. Naysay SOE all you want but they have yet to produce an unsuccessful MMORPG. The rest speak for themselves.
I agree with you and dissagree with Xplororer... I think LOTRO will survive based on name recognition. It'll probably never be a huge success but it will probably coast along somewhere in the 100k users range for eternity. Which is sad... done right LOTRO could have been a 5mil+ subscriber title.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator I think LOTRO will survive based on name recognition. It'll probably never be a huge success but it will probably coast along somewhere in the 100k users range for eternity. Which is sad... done right LOTRO could have been a 5mil+ subscriber title.
I was very excited about it when I first heard it was being worked on a few years ago, it wasn't for the lack of the genre (as everyone knows there's more then enough elves out there) but I had a genuine interest in seeing what someone could do with the forerunner of them all, if anything I was amazed by the gigantic task any developer would have appeasing the millions uppon millions of Tolkien fans.
However as time went on and Turbine took over the reigns and we slowly started to see what their vision was for this game I quickly lost hope and interest for the project. Also, as a fan of the series myself, not a gigantic fan but a fan none the less, I was extremely dissapointed by a seemingly disenfranchised developer ignoring some very important features, many of which have already been named off in this thread.
In my eye's, Turbine's desire to bring a quality product to a very worthy license is in serious question. I sincerely fear that they are under the impression that the tittle will succeed regardless of quality, assuming that the fans of the books and movies will play anything just to be appart of Middle Earth. Although that may just be a very good assumption, my fear is that because of this players will be left with yet another poorly made attempt at cashing in on a good name and license.
If these fears are realized, it would be a sad day in so many respects, for Lord of the Ring fans, for Tolkien fans, for Fantasy fans and for MMO fans.
Originally posted by shae Just my 2 cents on LoTRO. Also, as a fan of the series myself, not a gigantic fan but a fan none the less,
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly). Na - With/by Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by shae Just my 2 cents on LoTRO. Also, as a fan of the series myself, not a gigantic fan but a fan none the less,
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly). Na - With/by Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
That is soooo completely geek and awesome regardless but uh... check this Link and look carefully , lol, oh cmon it's wonderful to be such a geek .
And honestly, it worries me to no end that such an obvious fan of Tolkien isn't all that excited about the possibilitys of this game but as I explained in my earlier post, I agree and get why.
But you never ever really know El, wouldn't it be fantastic and they proved everyone wrong and made an amazingly epic mmo that really did the books justice. Stranger things have happened.
Originally posted by shae Just my 2 cents on LoTRO. Also, as a fan of the series myself, not a gigantic fan but a fan none the less,
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars
El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly). Na - With/by Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
That is soooo completely geek and awesome regardless but uh... check this Link and look carefully , lol, oh cmon it's wonderful to be such a geek .
And honestly, it worries me to no end that such an obvious fan of Tolkien isn't all that excited about the possibilitys of this game but as I explained in my earlier post, I agree and get why.
But you never ever really know El, wouldn't it be fantastic and they proved everyone wrong and made an amazingly epic mmo that really did the books justice. Stranger things have happened.
Yep, that's why I'm keeping an eye on it despite my skepticism (as is every other tolkien fan I know on the planet). Turbine HAS the talent.... it's whether they can put the pieces together that worries me. I have no doubt that they're CAPABLE of doing it. AC1 is living breathing proof that they have the skills to develop a solid MMORPG... the problem is they tend to allow 'trends' to distract them. Instancing... bleh... for example
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by shae Just my 2 cents on LoTRO. Also, as a fan of the series myself, not a gigantic fan but a fan none the less,
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly). Na - With/by Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my geekyness. I actually took the time to try to translate my real name into elvish as well I probably butchered the language, but it looked cool written in elvish script.
-------------- Played: Age of Conan, DDO, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, DaOC, MxO, EQ2, and so on... Wish List: Jumpgate Evolution, Star Wars: TOR, Star Trek
Originally posted by voodookhan Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by shae Just my 2 cents on LoTRO. Also, as a fan of the series myself, not a gigantic fan but a fan none the less,
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly). Na - With/by Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my geekyness. I actually took the time to try to translate my real name into elvish as well I probably butchered the language, but it looked cool written in elvish script.
There are websites that'll do it for you Not to mention some free apps. Biggest thing when translating your name is to know what your name means. Then find the elvish words with the same meaning in a elvish dictionary
Kevin, for example, means several things. I prefer the translation that means "hand(s) of god"
which translates to Telohir There are, of course, other translations depending on which meaning for "Kevin" you choose (there is "gentle" "kind" "loving" and several others depending on which language of origin you choose for the name)
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by shae Just my 2 cents on LoTRO. I was very excited about it when I first heard it was being worked on a few years ago, it wasn't for the lack of the genre (as everyone knows there's more then enough elves out there) but I had a genuine interest in seeing what someone could do with the forerunner of them all, if anything I was amazed by the gigantic task any developer would have appeasing the millions uppon millions of Tolkien fans. However as time went on and Turbine took over the reigns and we slowly started to see what their vision was for this game I quickly lost hope and interest for the project. Also, as a fan of the series myself, not a gigantic fan but a fan none the less, I was extremely dissapointed by a seemingly disenfranchised developer ignoring some very important features, many of which have already been named off in this thread. In my eye's, Turbine's desire to bring a quality product to a very worthy license is in serious question. I sincerely fear that they are under the impression that the tittle will succeed regardless of quality, assuming that the fans of the books and movies will play anything just to be appart of Middle Earth. Although that may just be a very good assumption, my fear is that because of this players will be left with yet another poorly made attempt at cashing in on a good name and license. If these fears are realized, it would be a sad day in so many respects, for Lord of the Ring fans, for Tolkien fans, for Fantasy fans and for MMO fans.
exactly if they were serious the real crap and action in the tolkein books all happens in the simarillion i would rather be a noldor then a little wood elf any day of the week.
seriously i mean it seems like their trying to squeeze what people have seen in the movies into the game so they get recognition by the people who are illiterate.
but i heard it was turn based(eh)
it is gonna be terrible.
i would much more appreciate a game titled "war for the simarils)
serious morgoth withstood sieges for 500 years by the higher elves, not to mention ongoliant makes sheelob look like a daddy long legs. And Feanor it took 20 or so ballrogs about 4 hours to kill him. and even then he survived to die a few hours later.
i mean the non Trilogy and hobbit tolkein stuff has the non traditional elves like the see elves(tiny bit on them in trilogy), the noldor(best elves ever), and i forgot the third race of elves maybe it will come back to me.
and the dwarves were cool too and a lot more powerful.
and the bad guys in the trilogy are nothing to the types in the simarillion. You have the first dragon ever(whos fire could have destroyed the one ring), stuff different from Just varieties of orcs and goblins.
and it would be cooler
this is what convinces me turbine is just trying to squeeze a liscense and not make a good new original game
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
Originally posted by Elnator Now, being that this is Tolkien there is quite a huge two edged sword that Turbine will have to deal with: If they don't live up to expectations the Tolkien fan base is one BRUTAL critic.
Turbine have a very difficult balancing act with this one. A loose adherence to canon may have been tolerable in SWG, but Middle Earth is an entirely different kettle of potatoes. If the game develops a strong, mature, respectful roleplaying community and remains as true to the source material as possible (within the confines of a MMORPG), then I will be tempted. I'd quite like to resurrect one or two of my old MERP/RM characters. On the other hand, if it looks like it has the potential to degenerate into a moronic Legolasathon then I won't go anywhere near it. At the moment, I'm not convinced that Turbine will be able to satisfy both the Tolkien obsessives and appeal to the other, probably wider, potential audience who enjoyed the films but aren't nearly as precious over JRRT lore. I'm one of the former and I'm not at all tolerant of compromise. Not allowing PvP is promising in that it shows they are handling the material with care, but ever since the name of the game changed from Middle Earth Online to LoTR Online I've been too uncertain of the developers intentions to watch it closely.
Comments
true fan is a stupid term
The game probably isn't so hyped because people are :
1) waiting to see what turbine does with DDO
2) The books have a great world and history, but they are really about the fellowship of the ring.No one playing the game is going to be an active part in it, and there's no jedi type generic group to work for like SWG had to trick people into playing. So really...what are you going to be in LoTRO ?
EXACTLY MY POINT! what will there be to do? seriously with them cutting out 80% of stuff to do in LOTR and giving everyone the same help the ring bearer quests, i see htis game falling right on its ass a few months after release, UNLESS, People being a herd species as we are, see a gamer pickup the game read it identify it as crap, only to not know a 13 year old was watching him pick it up thinking it was then cool, which he then got his mom to buy, which then got his friends to buy, in turn gets his relatives to buy then finnaly his school, becomes popular in the region and then spreads like wildfire that way only to be crushed by reasons in my previous post. but hell that would e one hell of a run! THREE WORDS, CRASH AND BURN.
No matter how much I agree with someone....quoting a post line by line for a full page means someone needs to lighten up. Nothing is worth doing that.
Any game that has a pre existing fan base like starwars, lord of the ring or D&D is going to make money. It may not be a smashing success, but it won't be a bomb either.
LoTRO still doesn't have a firm release date so that probably means 6+ months ( though that's a total guess ) I agree it's pretty odd for a company to do two games like this but DDO may be close to a year old before lotro comes out. That's about the life expectancy of a happy fan in a MMOG. Maybe they're trying to get those happy fans into another turbine product /shrug, or thinking they'll play both.
There was a poll here about how many subscriptions do you run, and at the time I checking it, almost 40% of the voters had 2 or more.
Maybe they're just trying to avoid putting all thier eggs in one basket. Better to have 2 ok games then go for a smash and have it flop
Well before I went to the lotr: online website and read up the facts, I was pretty excited... then...
No pvp, follows storyline, no mounts (been commented on previously), cant go evil, no specific classes. Doesn't sound like a great online game. How are you meant to play with other people when theres a storyline?
I was pretty disappointed. If anyone has got their hopes up, go and take a look at the website, it'll tell you all about the game.
http://lotro.turbine.com/
Graphics are good and all but with their current ideas, I don't think it will be the greatest mmorpg.
I miss DAoC
At risk of sounding like a fanboi:
1. The Tolkien fanbase is too broad for a released game to ever be "late". (A game is never late, nor is it early, it arrrives exactly when it means to!
) In reference to SWG, it was a decent game, it did not "miss the window", if the game had been better, it would have done better, that simple.
2. Why the hate on Turbine? Is there another company you'd rather see producing the game? SoE perhaps (hmmm? No?) AC 1 was innovating, AC 2 was a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes, smart people learn from them.
3. I do question the fact that Turbine is taking on two MMO's at once. To me, this sounds ridiculous, but I can't see why they'd do it if they didn't know something I don't (and I'm sure they do).
4. Big names draw people to titles, but do not keep them. The gameplay will have to do that.
5. EQ is old and while it was good (interesting, addicting?) for its time, it cannot compete with the newer mmo's in terms of "things to do". There simply isn't much interaction with your character. The auto-attack AFK quip is not exactly exaggerated, unless you're nostalgic for the experience, there simply isn't much drawing "new" gamers to EQ.
I feel LOTRO (and to the same extent DDO) has as much of a chance as any (perhaps more so, due to the names) MMO in the current day becoming a hit. Though I'd say it is an ill-oppotune time to release a bad, or even average game with WoW's x-pack on the way, and the new year seeing several highly-anticipated MMO's being released.
The game play, if it is good, will speak for itself.
Sidebar: As for LOTRO's lack of mounts and PvP, I must say this is disheartening. PvP, when done after the fact, is only that much harder to implement (and is usually sub-par) Mounts should be released with the Rohan expansion.
In conclusion LOTRO will bring people in with the name, but will stand or fall on its own merits, as do all other titles.
Cheers,
Gray Shadow
Xplororer:
How many tolkien fan sites do you visit? I'm a very avid Tolkien fan and am subscribed not only to several websites but also multiple Tolkien newsgroups.
Trust me. LOTRO is VERY well known in the Tolkien Fan community. It will not lack for a following. That's what I'm basing my statement on. Sure most tolkien fans are bookworms but never underestimate the power of news feeds in the tolkien community. People who follow tolkien know about every single title being produced based on the books. Be it a compupter game or a board game or a movie or a tv show. Once a rumor gets out it does not take long for that fan base to pick up on it.
Now, being that this is Tolkien there is quite a huge two edged sword that Turbine will have to deal with:
If they don't live up to expectations the Tolkien fan base is one BRUTAL critic.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
It has no PVP
How can you have LOTR without PVP?
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Don't click here...no2
Not hating on Turbine just stating simple facts:
Turbine is over extended trying to make 2 MMO's at once.
Turbine is notoriously BAD at marketting their products.
Turbine has a proven track record of making sub-par games other than AC1, which was and continues to be: Slightly above average (my opinion only). Witness AC2 which didn't even manage to hold their AC1 players attention. Witness DDO which many beta testers have stated they probably won't pay for (in violation of the NDA I might add) because it feels like a hopped up version of Guildwars sans PVP that will require a monthly fee.
As to who I'd rather see producing MEO/LOTRO? Here's a list of who I'd like to see doing it, in order:
1) Mythic
2) CCP
3) NCSOFT
4) Blizzard
5) Sigil
6) SOE
7) FUNCOM
Any of those companies have a better track record than Turbine. Hell, AO had an ABYSSMAL launch and Funcom has managed to not only make it a decent game but market it well enough to have survived that fiasco. Naysay SOE all you want but they have yet to produce an unsuccessful MMORPG. The rest speak for themselves.
I agree with you and dissagree with Xplororer... I think LOTRO will survive based on name recognition. It'll probably never be a huge success but it will probably coast along somewhere in the 100k users range for eternity. Which is sad... done right LOTRO could have been a 5mil+ subscriber title.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
QFT
Just my 2 cents on LoTRO.
I was very excited about it when I first heard it was being worked on a few years ago, it wasn't for the lack of the genre (as everyone knows there's more then enough elves out there) but I had a genuine interest in seeing what someone could do with the forerunner of them all, if anything I was amazed by the gigantic task any developer would have appeasing the millions uppon millions of Tolkien fans.
However as time went on and Turbine took over the reigns and we slowly started to see what their vision was for this game I quickly lost hope and interest for the project. Also, as a fan of the series myself, not a gigantic fan but a fan none the less, I was extremely dissapointed by a seemingly disenfranchised developer ignoring some very important features, many of which have already been named off in this thread.
In my eye's, Turbine's desire to bring a quality product to a very worthy license is in serious question. I sincerely fear that they are under the impression that the tittle will succeed regardless of quality, assuming that the fans of the books and movies will play anything just to be appart of Middle Earth. Although that may just be a very good assumption, my fear is that because of this players will be left with yet another poorly made attempt at cashing in on a good name and license.
If these fears are realized, it would be a sad day in so many respects, for Lord of the Ring fans, for Tolkien fans, for Fantasy fans and for MMO fans.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
not really looking forward to what appears to be a dumbed down version of the tolkien universe
Where people cant hurt other people and there is no role for playing on the evil side.
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars
El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly).
Na - With/by
Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars
El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly).
Na - With/by
Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
That is soooo completely geek and awesome regardless but uh... check this Link and look carefully
, lol, oh cmon it's wonderful to be such a geek 
.
And honestly, it worries me to no end that such an obvious fan of Tolkien isn't all that excited about the possibilitys of this game but as I explained in my earlier post, I agree and get why.
But you never ever really know El, wouldn't it be fantastic and they proved everyone wrong and made an amazingly epic mmo that really did the books justice. Stranger things have happened.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Yep, that's why I'm keeping an eye on it despite my skepticism (as is every other tolkien fan I know on the planet). Turbine HAS the talent.... it's whether they can put the pieces together that worries me. I have no doubt that they're CAPABLE of doing it. AC1 is living breathing proof that they have the skills to develop a solid MMORPG... the problem is they tend to allow 'trends' to distract them. Instancing... bleh... for example
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars
El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly).
Na - With/by
Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my geekyness.
I actually took the time to try to translate my real name into elvish as well 
I probably butchered the language, but it looked cool written in elvish script.
--------------
Played: Age of Conan, DDO, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, DaOC, MxO, EQ2, and so on...
Wish List: Jumpgate Evolution, Star Wars: TOR, Star Trek
I don't know how geeky this is but a long time ago I created the name Elnator from tolkien elvish. It roughly translates to Brother With Stars
El - Star/Stars (actually the plural is elen but elennator looks silly).
Na - With/by
Tor - Brother
Needless to say I'm a pretty huge fan of JRR Tolien's works. That alone should tell you that I would normally be REALLY jazzed about an online middle earth game (and normally I am. I've played MUME (Multi Users in Middle Earth) since 1991 and still play to this day from time to time, for example. But I'm not at all excited about LOTRO right now. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode with it.
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my geekyness.
I actually took the time to try to translate my real name into elvish as well 
I probably butchered the language, but it looked cool written in elvish script.
There are websites that'll do it for you
Kevin, for example, means several things. I prefer the translation that means "hand(s) of god"
which translates to Telohir
There are, of course, other translations depending on which meaning for "Kevin" you choose (there is "gentle" "kind" "loving" and several others depending on which language of origin you choose for the name)
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
LOTR movies ruined any hope of me ever liking it :
orlando Bloom the gay w/e he is and them 2 little gay things carrying the ring :S
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
exactly if they were serious the real crap and action in the tolkein books all happens in the simarillion i would rather be a noldor then a little wood elf any day of the week.
seriously i mean it seems like their trying to squeeze what people have seen in the movies into the game so they get recognition by the people who are illiterate.
but i heard it was turn based(eh)
it is gonna be terrible.
i would much more appreciate a game titled "war for the simarils)
serious morgoth withstood sieges for 500 years by the higher elves, not to mention ongoliant makes sheelob look like a daddy long legs. And Feanor it took 20 or so ballrogs about 4 hours to kill him. and even then he survived to die a few hours later.
i mean the non Trilogy and hobbit tolkein stuff has the non traditional elves like the see elves(tiny bit on them in trilogy), the noldor(best elves ever), and i forgot the third race of elves maybe it will come back to me.
and the dwarves were cool too and a lot more powerful.
and the bad guys in the trilogy are nothing to the types in the simarillion. You have the first dragon ever(whos fire could have destroyed the one ring), stuff different from Just varieties of orcs and goblins.
and it would be cooler
this is what convinces me turbine is just trying to squeeze a liscense and not make a good new original game
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
Kinda been waiting for this to release since i heard news of its concept... heh. that was quite some time ago.