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Thoughts - Reviewers, $15, End-Game, Realistic desires
Draedz
Member Posts: 47
I would like to share my thoughts and experiences with the ESO community. This is a subjective post. I don't have an exact amount, but I think its conceivable to say that I have played MMO's for almost 10,000 hours cumulatively over my 15 years of MMO gaming. If you believe in the rule, than I am a professional.
Pay models, combat systems, and aesthetics of a game are all things you should understand and judge personally. I am ashamed for the professional reviewers of ESO. If they did a review of Salmon it would be "ehh, kinda tases like chicken and I wanted it to be more fishy. It has a lemon with it, who still puts lemon on their salmon? I feel like I have to eat this Salmon first before I try some of the sides, even though they're right in front of me." Awful!
$15 is less than 1% of total monthly income for a median individual. This is a monthly investment to a company that pays returns in updates, balances, and new content. Complaining about a pay model, or even, reviewing a game negatively because of its pay model is absurd. Any consumer can look at the pay model and understand the circumstances, one would hope. However, the ongoing argument consumes people who can't acknowledge the advantages and negatives of each system on an individual basis. Why do we battle for extremes? Why does no one argue pay per hour, pay per day, or pay per week?
End-game is a destructive term to a game, not to be highlighted or quickly attained. The end game of an MMO is a point where you have accomplished everything you set out to, maybe in raids or PvP, regardless you enter into a cycle of lackluster repetition until the next content is released. Why would someone ever seek out end game while ignoring the rest a game has to offer. This is traditionally what MMO's have offered us, initial excitement and adventure, followed by the monotony of end game. Do power gamers still exist, have they wised, or do they remain a victim of causality - rushing through each game's content only to succumb to eventual boredom and a ruined outlook on MMO gaming.
I look at this game (ESO), both externally and internally, and think about the journey, adventure, and exploration into the unseen. I like to be challenged. These are things I seek in both a single player and multi-player game, hell, even a book! The multi-player element adds more complex elements to the game such as friendships with like-minded individuals, the elation of teamwork (especially in success), the action and reaction in PvP, chance encounters. I am realistic to my wants and needs as a gamer, especially in an MMO. This game has what I want.
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end." E.H.
See you in Tamriel
Comments
Once this launches we need to trade game handles. If I had my ring of Mara I would have chipped my monitor trying to throw it at you. x.x
I agree SO MUCH with everything you said in this post. SO MUCH AND MORE!
People say 15 dollar is to much. But it's not the 15 dollars that matter that much. It's the fact that this game wants to apply the standard model to the game. If the standard was 5 dollar, than 5 dollar would have been to much. Those people essentially want the game to be cheaper than the standard, even free maybe. While we all want everything to be cheap, I still don't understand why a reasonable person genuinely believes this game should drop the sub fee while they already stated that their goal is to keep working on the game. In French they say you can't have the butter and the money from the butter. Whether or not they'll be able to keep up to their promise is another question. There simply is no way you can be sure of that.
I'd much rather have an updated game, with new content, new challenges, new and creative twists for a fee than a free or cheap game with no or little progress. My time is worth much more than a few dollars.
Thanks Luc. I like your pic, Everquest nostalgia for life! If I remember, I will send you my info.
I understand Jazz, my point is that everyone should understand what each system offers and not make a big deal about the issue.
I finally saw a decent review today that gave me some hope
Signed!
Yes this does seem like a cheapshot and out of respect for those going though tough times living at home, i'll remove this post.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
ESO is trying to draw in two groups of people mmo fans TES fans.
Since it takes 5-10 hours to get to level 10 and you can only show 15 minutes of footage and reveiw up to level 15 therefore most reviewers are concentrating on the 1-10 experience which is very mediocre so...
TES fans say: this isn't as good as Skyrim and I don't have to pay $15 a month to play Skyrim.
MMO fans say: this isn't that much better than gw2 and I don't have to pay $15 a month for gw2.
People aren't fixating on the $15 because they're broke, they fixating on it because there are alternatives that are just as good that don't charge it. This could turn around depending on how much the game picks up at level 10 and how well Zenimax does at showing off the games features that are worth paying $15 a month rather than the ones that aren't.
I just wonder why all the negative feedback is coming from these so-called professional reviewers. Here's my question:
If the game was really "that bad" (and it isn't), you'd think there would be NDA leaks by Beta players all over the place saying it's that bad. What's the worst that could happen - they get their account locked and aren't allowed to play? Pffft... why would they care? If they think it sucks... why would they care if they were kicked to the curb?
You don't see this, though. What you see are professional reviewers giving their thoughts on the 15 minutes they're allowed to show, and everyone and their brother regurgitating exactly what the pro-reviewers all seem to unanimously agree with, using the same terminology and all... almost like it was scripted. Curious.
The reason I think people don't see subscriptions as reasonable is simple - they're unreasonable people. There's just no beating a flat, fair rate with zero hidden costs. Not wanting that is an irrational viewpoint - unless you can get it for free, and leave the worrying about paying the bills to someone else. That's not fair. It's selfish. And frankly, I don't care what an unreasonable, irrational, selfish person thinks or wants. It's just that simple lol.
That being said, I'll see you in Tamriel as well!
The negative feedback from these so called reviewers that never played past the first five levels of the game is quite simple to explain.... they look at it from a totally different point... how am i gonna get the most viewers/readers?... In the case of ESO it was obvious, certain vocal people where allready complaining about some things... and why not tell those people exactly what they want to hear.. Thats the only thing that pays off in the long run for these individual reviewers..
I fully agree with the OP on this...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Exactly, nothing gets your review more hits than saying the exact thing everyone else is.
Exactly, nothing gets your review more hits than saying the exact thing everyone else is.
So true... There was a review that was posted here the other day that was simply right on point and non biased. The guy hit the nail on everything, and didn't have that many views yet. Very long video however the last 10minutes is where this guy truly shines with his review recap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTQMINsV170&feature=youtu.be&t=21m22s
TwitchTV: iNeoki
/agree
Bravo, sir!
As long as the game is decent and engaging, I VASTLY prefer the sub model. I despise F2P games, and B2P games with cash shops don't "feel" very different than F2P games. I have major issues with the "nickle and dime" monetisation model and try very hard to not support it. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with paying for a product i enjoy (hence my preference for the sub games), but F2P models are designed to gouge the customer.
But enough about that. The game world looks amazing, crafting sounds deep and actually useful, the all-star VO cast could be a huge plus, but most of all, the character building appears "mostly" free-form and open-ended. That really appeals to me. A Sorc with a 2 handed Axe charging into battle wearing full plate, or a "priest" type character with a bow. How viable all the different playstyle combinations are is yet to be seen, but just having the option to create these combinations is very exciting to me.
As far as end game goes, I generally gravitate towards group PvP. I absolutely LOVED Alterac Valley in Vanilla WoW. I played some DAOC but was late to the party, and missed its "hay-day." That being said, I'm intrigued by Cyrodil. Very anxious to see it for myself, I just hope there is more to it that zerg surfing.
The "professional" reviews don't really bother me. Combat and playstyle is going to be highly subjective, people being divided on this point is expected. However, I do find it borderline ridiculous that someone can complain about how little zone chat was taking place during a closed beta press event, and how that is somehow a "knock" on the game. Things like that in these "reviews" is where they lose credibility with me. Most reviews I have seen appear to be written by people that just do not understand the MMO genre. That is fundamentally OK, much of this game's target audience is going to be console players and TES fans, which is great, I want the genre to grow and expand. It just means that a lot of "reviewers" are going to be of little value to me is establishing expectations for the game.
Yes, the faction lock fiasco and Imperial edition backlash is legitimate. At best, it was back-tracking from a firm stance because of forum rage. At worst, it was an underhanded marketing ploy to boost pre-order sales and generate buzz. Neither of which are a deal breaker for me, but it is suspicious.
All in all, I think this game has some serious potential. They have (supposedly) implemented many features that I would love to see in a AAA game and the combat appears fresh and engaging. I have seen and heard enough to convince me there are at least a few months worth of enjoyable content and gameplay to justify a pre-order.
Thanks
Looking forward to release. Hopefully the general NDA lifts and I can speak on my personal experiences in the game.
Here is a nice little video for anyone who is a lore fiend!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_513120&feature=iv&src_vid=Oss0Mo2hCM8&v=A-chDClmdos
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Heres my 2cents, Ive played most online games, mainly focused on PvP, from Daoc/Darkfall/WOW/Everquest,Warhammer online,GW1 & 2, LOTR, hell I started on darktide Asherons Call. I would say ESO is a very good game from the time I was in Beta. The crafting is probably one of the best systems Ive seen, although they could have divided the crafts a bit more say Blacksmithing >weaponsmith/armor craft etc. The environment & graphics are very good for a online game, of course they not going be top notch Skyrim like on max settings but its a mmorpg & unless ya want to have massive framerate lag & slow & jerky game graphics need to be toned down.
Questing is varied & very good I thought, animations could use some work but that's not something that cant be worked on, Combat was quick & responsive, probably a lot harder than most games, you actually needed to think with what you were fighting & react to it, the economy seems a little out of order with prices etc but that can be balanced, races/classes.skills are all very well done.
People that compare the combat to ES games like skyrim, I thought combat in them games was basic & boring after a while had like 2 attacks & block/cast etc, pretty much 1 hit everything after a while.
The zones are well designed & relate well to the actual tamriel etc. PvP area was massive I didn't know how to work the teleport so I ran around looking at some keeps, the area is big enough for 1v1, roamers & large groups/sieges. The one fight I did have when I was close to the action some Elf poped & shot me then smoked me, so I had to port back, but the time I got lvl 10 to get into cyrodil the beta was nearly over.
Only real negatives I would say would be some animations & sometimes the NPCs look lifeless around towns. The economy needs balanced.
I do hope they eventually add duelling & a arena system to fight 1v1 2v2 etc like Oblivion had in the capital city, fight for ranks & maybe another gladiator skill line.
10000 hours over 15 years and you still don't grasps how mmorpg works in 2014?
Welcome to December 2011
I have to totaly agree with the op. Single player games that you pay 60 euro for are just 20 to 30 hours of play(for most games ) with maybe another 10 hours for every DLC you add. A mmo should be about the journey and the friends you make and the community that you help create never about the endgame. Games like the EQ (not the watered down version they have now) which when i started playing in 1999 took me about 4 or 5 years to get a toon to max level and to this day it was still my best experance of any game i have ever played.
Due to health reasons i was able to play for 10 plus hours per day so i put in a lot of hours helping people,advanceing my skills and just creating a social life that to this day i am still in touch with alot of the people i met in EQ. So paying 15 euro a month for a mmo is more than worth it and cant be compared to a single player game.
Each pay model has its own advantages and negatives. One is not better than the other with the exception of your individual personal feelings on the matter. They can both be profitable and that typically means more growth.
This sums up much of the negative feedback from many people around here, imo.
I'd also like to add. For the TES players, in addition to not having to pay a monthly sub they also have the ability to drastically change the game via the mod community. If there is something a fan doesn't like in ESO, it can't be changed via modding (obviously). So why pay for a game that doesn't deliver as open as an experience as the single player TES games?
The mmo community by and large has a wide array of alternatives available to them. You'll have some who scoff at the sub fee, because they don't want to pay a second sub to access a game that they won't play as much as their main. People will also compare the amount of things to do in ESO (launch) vs. any other mmo that's been out for years. Yes, it's not comparing apples to apples, but the comparisons will still be there. So why pay $15 per month for a game that supposedly doesn't have as much content available?
Additionally, I feel that a large number of people within the community were surprised when they saw that both ESO and Wildstar were going with the sub model. GW2 is a game that is doing well as a B2P title and I feel as though many people figured more companies would follow suit.
Zenimax needs to allow the press to show more than just the first 15 levels and only 15 minutes of recorded footage. Especially since so many are stating that the game opens up at 10 when more systems (including) PvP open up.
ESO could be a game that winds up growing once it launches and the general community starts showing footage of higher level content. However, it could also wind up having it's potential growth stunted due to the general reactions across the internet right now.
I think you underestimate the amount of people willing to deal with a few compromises in order to play an ES title online with their friends and others. The multiplayer aspect isn't some trivial little gimmick. It's a total game changer and puts them in completely different categories, imo.
If people want a moddable world with more freedom, they can play Skrim. If they want a multiplayer experience with as close to a resemblance to the single player ES titles as there will probably ever be, they'll play ESO. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, the value of each.
nice text, very likeable guy.
they will all pay anyway. how many of you actually leave out a mmo-release these days?
I feel like once you hit the cap, if you want to define "Endgame" hitting max level.
But theres so much you will miss... hunting down and exploring for stuff you missed is going to be part of the game. It is part of the game I should say... not only that, but Cyrodill is amazing.
CAMELOT UNCHAINED / ESO - Got Interest? Private message me for more information regarding a new guild.