stop asking for free MMOs

Squeak69 · February 2014

now first of let me state im not talking about F2P VS P2P thats a diffrent subject.

what im talking about is something i have been seeing alot of late and that is people saying that they should only pay for the box and never have to pay agian, be it cash shop or sub.

this just needs to stop, MMOs take money to continue to function no matter what means you get them though it is a needed evil. if it bothers you that money has to go into these games in one form or another to get everything out of it then stop playing MMOs now cause this will never stop.

DEVs need to eat to people and considering the amount of learning needed, and the average amount of hours put in by a dev per day they get paid way under then the average says they should be getting already.

Scot · February 2014

[mod edit]

Sorry, you do have a serious point, but that's how they come across to me sometimes.

Squeak69 · February 2014

Originally posted by Scot
[mod edit]

Sorry, you do have a serious point, but that's how they come across to me sometimes.

oh i agree thats who people come accross to me alot as well.

azarhal · February 2014

Originally posted by Squeak69

DEVs need to eat to people

I read that s DEVs need to eat people. I think I'm not quite awake yet...

That behavior is nothing new, I see it for other things too, not just games. There is a generation that believes everything should be free (aka someone else should pay the bill for them).

Squeak69 · February 2014

Originally posted by azarhal
Originally posted by Squeak69

DEVs need to eat to people

I read that s DEVs need to eat people. I think I'm not quite awake yet...

That behavior is nothing new, I see it for other things too, not just games. There is a generation that believes everything should be free (aka someone else should pay the bill for them).

ya i noticed it read like that aftre i posted it but decided to leave it i find it funny the image of a dev eating people to maintain the ability to make games

Kyleran · February 2014

Well, in all fairness, GW2 proved you can create B2P MMOS, so many people see monthly subs or spendy cash shops as monetary grabs that really aren't based on providing players good value.

Squeak69 · February 2014

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, in all fairness, GW2 proved you can create B2P MMOS, so many people see monthly subs or spendy cash shops as monetary grabs that really aren't based on providing players good value.

GW2 spent alot of time with it cash shop so i find it hard to see it as a pure B2P game.

Shari · February 2014

Ok I think you need to get off your high horse a little bit here guys. Nobody is asking for free anything.

Free to play games give the option to try the game before you buy the game. It lets you play many hours so you ( the consumer) can see if the company developing the game has a good product. Free to play is also a good option for people who play many mmorpgs. Personally I play 4 casually (all of which I have spent money on as and when I want to) and love the fact I can hop in and out depending on how my mood takes me.

Nobody is asking for everything for free as everyone knows that with free to play, you will end up spending anyways if you enjoy the product. A lot of the time you end up spending more than pay to play so your logic is flawed.

[mod edit]

Squeak69 · February 2014

Originally posted by Shari
Ok I think you need to get off your high horse a little bit here guys. Nobody is asking for free anything.

Free to play games give the option to try the game before you buy the game. It lets you play many hours so you ( the consumer) can see if the company developing the game has a good product. Free to play is also a good option for people who play many mmorpgs. Personally I play 4 casually (all of which I have spent money on as and when I want to) and love the fact I can hop in and out depending on how my mood takes me.

Nobody is asking for everything for free as everyone knows that with free to play, you will end up spending anyways if you enjoy the product. A lot of the time you end up spending more than pay to play so your logic is flawed.

And as for the person who mentioned benefits............I'm not sure how this got into the conversation but I presume you are easily brain washed by the media.

please read my OP, i did state that this was not about F2P.

and yes i ahve seen more and more of late people saying they should not have to pay anything after the initial box price.

MrMonolitas · February 2014

Mostly you had to pay monthly fees becasue they didint know other business model. Now as they are introduced to new b2p with micro transactions i dont understand why people still making new games with monthly fee. Teso mostly will go f2p aswell no doubt about that.

And to you op i have to say that you arent very smart. Becasue if people doesnt have money to spare for monthly subscription ( i bet they could save up for B2P title) they will go searching for similar F2P title this is logic. And if you dont want to see people searching for something else you shouldnt be in these forums at all. They get so much more from other business models than subscription.

Squeak69 · February 2014

Originally posted by albers
Mostly you had to pay monthly fees becasue they didint know other business model. Now as they are introduced to new b2p with micro transactions i dont understand why people still making new games with monthly fee. Teso mostly will go f2p aswell no doubt about that.

And to you op i have to say that you arent very smart. Becasue if people doesnt have money to spare for monthly subscription ( i bet they could save up for B2P title) they will go searching for similar F2P title this is logic. And if you dont want to see people searching for something else you shouldnt be in these forums at all. They get so much more from other business models than subscription.

for real please actully read the opening post, if you had you would not misunderstadn what this thread is about.

its not about F2P VS P2P. its about people complaaining they have to give money to a MMO after the intial box price whether it be via cash shop or sub.

squalleonaha · February 2014

Originally posted by Squeak69
now first of let me state im not talking about F2P VS P2P thats a diffrent subject.

what im talking about is something i have been seeing alot of late and that is people saying that they should only pay for the box and never have to pay agian, be it cash shop or sub.

this just needs to stop, MMOs take money to continue to function no matter what means you get them though it is a needed evil. if it bothers you that money has to go into these games in one form or another to get everything out of it then stop playing MMOs now cause this will never stop.

DEVs need to eat to people and considering the amount of learning needed, and the average amount of hours put in by a dev per day they get paid way under then the average says they should be getting already.

well, i think you spend too much money so you think everything is normal

this is problem between Charging too much: box + sub + cash shop + expansion, while only box sell + expansion is way more than enough for them to profit.

look at those vale game like counter trike ,half life, l4d. look at GW1 , look at LOL. they are fine and even consider success game.

i dont think people asking for F2P but they asking for a reason price

Shari · February 2014

Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Shari
Ok I think you need to get off your high horse a little bit here guys. Nobody is asking for free anything.

Free to play games give the option to try the game before you buy the game. It lets you play many hours so you ( the consumer) can see if the company developing the game has a good product. Free to play is also a good option for people who play many mmorpgs. Personally I play 4 casually (all of which I have spent money on as and when I want to) and love the fact I can hop in and out depending on how my mood takes me.

Nobody is asking for everything for free as everyone knows that with free to play, you will end up spending anyways if you enjoy the product. A lot of the time you end up spending more than pay to play so your logic is flawed.

And as for the person who mentioned benefits............I'm not sure how this got into the conversation but I presume you are easily brain washed by the media.

please read my OP, i did state that this was not about F2P.

and yes i ahve seen more and more of late people saying they should not have to pay anything after the initial box price.

I'm happy my reply was relevant to your thread....sorry!

Oh and btw.......Which people?

nariusseldon · February 2014

Who is asking?

The OP got confused. It is the devs who are offering f2p, and no-sub games .. why? Because of competition. I don't see a reason not to oblige them if i can have fun playing, do you?

It is a free market .. devs don't have to give me free games if they don't want to.

hg2012 · February 2014

Originally posted by Squeak69
this just needs to stop, MMOs take money to continue to pay for some game companies board director who cares nothing about the actual game his company is charging a sub for to sit on a beach sipping margaritas surrounded by hot super models while the subscription game in question goes a year long without any decent content updates and only crappy cash shop mounts.

Fixed.

Bladestrom · February 2014

Op you have To bear in mind that you hear people like this in forums like this. The reality is that people will Pay for good games regardless of flapping and moaning on gaming forums, and those that don't well they get to play inferior games with less profit and investment. Gw2/eve/Wow all prove various flavours of payment model that means there is established payment models that are allways going to be preferred by dev houses.

Quizzical · February 2014

Buy-to-play can be highly profitable--if you sell enough boxes and charge enough per box. That's hardly demanding that everything be "free", especially if a game sells a new box for an expansion every year or two.

TheLizardbones · February 2014

Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, in all fairness, GW2 proved you can create B2P MMOS, so many people see monthly subs or spendy cash shops as monetary grabs that really aren't based on providing players good value.

GW2 spent alot of time with it cash shop so i find it hard to see it as a pure B2P game.

Then where is the real world example of what you are talking about? Even Guild Wars had a cash shop starting in 2006. The B2P system you are talking about not only doesn't exist, it hasn't existed for awhile, and never will.

imsoenthused · February 2014

I don't mind box prices and I like reasonable cash shops. It's just charging a subscription after a full retail box price or with a cash shop that I draw the line at these days. I'm valuable enough to a company as an active player that paying a subscription is a whole lot like paying my boss for letting me work, or paying a store to come inside and shop.

Rydeson · February 2014

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, in all fairness, GW2 proved you can create B2P MMOS, so many people see monthly subs or spendy cash shops as monetary grabs that really aren't based on providing players good value.

Exactly.. Back in the day servers used to be expensive and good reason for subs.. But not now.. Servers are a dime a dozen in comparison.. If I pay $15 a month, I damn well expect $15 worth of content in return.. Over the years, companies that used to give you 15, dropped down to 13, then 11, and now you probably only get $5 worth of content for every $15 sub.. I have officially declared my support for B2P models.. You want my money, give me something to spend it on.. Now that is true market driven consumerism LOL

Tybost · February 2014

I'm guilty of buying a boxed version of a game and taking full advantage of it, while not shelling out a single cent afterwards. Furthermore guilty of not paying a single cent towards the developers, unless such developer makes a fun game that makes me want to pay up for some cosmetics or such. I have bought subscription based games and paid monthly subscriptions and some games years old make me come back and payout more money to them. (Legacy Based Games) Those Games and the Developers have earned my money and I would gladly shell out money to them cause I'm happy with the recent developments of such game or for some other reason. Many developers fail to earn my money, because they simply fail to make a game that feels new or worth my time and money.

Until an MMO offers more than a copy and pasted experience for a [Box Price + Monthly subscription + DLC/Expansions] is honestly clear off the menu for me. I'm sorry but I'm not willing to shell out $15 a month on pieces of garbage that offer little to nothing new. Developers need to eat and if they want my money than they need to earn it, by making a game worth playing. Basically if a game is worth the time people will support the developers, if the developers are shady and never update the game and abandoned it. Players will of course do the same and jump ship and leave. In the end if people don't want to shell a dime after they buy the boxed version of a game.

That is up to them!

-

[[[[Anyway my cents regarding F2P/B2P/P2P/Future Quality Games, which includes feeding developers who are hungry for $$$.]

Good on them for taking advantage for what was set out on the table. Most MMO's 2008-2014 have yet to earn anything past a boxed buy. Enough is enough for these copy and pasted games, If games get better by slowly drifting away from F2P to B2P or P2P (Monthly $15 subscription). So be it! Just as long as the experience and journey justifies asking for $60 base boxed version buy to get in and furthermore $15 a month on out. Potentially future expansions which ask for additionally $30 and so on. For now I have yet to see a game worthy of $15 a month, and right now the good games seem to be either B2P or F2P right now. To which I have quite a few installed on my computer right now, to which I'm taking fully advantage of but I have paid up a bit to the most unlikely developers who some wouldn't support.

Age of Wushu being one game I supported more than I should of....but thats another story on its own I enjoyed the game and thus supported it. My choice- period.

kakasaki · February 2014

Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, in all fairness, GW2 proved you can create B2P MMOS, so many people see monthly subs or spendy cash shops as monetary grabs that really aren't based on providing players good value.

GW2 spent alot of time with it cash shop so i find it hard to see it as a pure B2P game.

Then where is the real world example of what you are talking about? Even Guild Wars had a cash shop starting in 2006. The B2P system you are talking about not only doesn't exist, it hasn't existed for awhile, and never will.

Exactly what I was thinking. Me thinks you created a problem that doesn't really exist...

GhettoJesus · February 2014

I'm going to spin everyone's heads with this one.

All major sports make huge money from what?

Sponsorships.

Games are so popular I'd argue that ingame adverts alone could be the main source of revenue for any competant developer.

The only problems are making the ads non intrusive to gameplay(e.g billboards/posters/clothing not popups). And whammo you got potential for millions.

Golfers can do it and why can't game devs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/21018786

But dev's won't follow this line.

Why try to offer the consumer a deal where he doesn't get milked at possible every angle? well because theres nothing stopping them. Poor morals I guess. This sadly is the future. An illusionary free wall followed by mass of pay by piece content.

Searias · February 2014

Originally posted by albers
Mostly you had to pay monthly fees becasue they didint know other business model. Now as they are introduced to new b2p with micro transactions i dont understand why people still making new games with monthly fee. Teso mostly will go f2p aswell no doubt about that.

And to you op i have to say that you arent very smart. Becasue if people doesnt have money to spare for monthly subscription ( i bet they could save up for B2P title) they will go searching for similar F2P title this is logic. And if you dont want to see people searching for something else you shouldnt be in these forums at all. They get so much more from other business models than subscription.

Not necessarily true though, most of those F2P players horde into P2P forum threads and complain about how they are not F2P and start doom threads instead of searching for those F2P titles like you said :P.

plat0nic · February 2014

But but but.....ask and ye shall receive!

nariusseldon · February 2014

Originally posted by plat0nic
But but but.....ask and ye shall receive!

It is better than that ... no one need to ask for anything, and devs will fall over one another to offer us free games.

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stop asking for free MMOs

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