To me, its all about choice. People choose to join zergs, casual guilds etc etc, and there is nothing wrong with that.
I have played pretty much every pvp game going from Daoc to Darkfall and it was always the case of choosing your playstyle. I have always found my niche in these games as I love small scale. I have also taken on far larger numbers and won, which is probably one of the best feelings in any pvp game.
Its all about mindset and having the right people around you, who have the same goals and preferences as you. Anything is possible for those type of people, as its the challenge that keeps them interested.
So find the right guild, play the way you want and have fun, as you will always find those golden moments, and casual zerg players deserve them as much as elite hardcore ones. There is always room for every type of player in a game as the wolves cant live without the sheep.
It's just like the casual/hardcore dynamic...."casual" groups will form zergs that try to overwhelm with numbers..."Hardcore" players will form organized groups that move and act with a purpose. It's no different then pve raiding in that regard.
DAOC let small groups take out big groups because AE CC was way too powerful and because most small groups ran at least one person with a map hack so always had the elemental of surprise.
To answer the OPs question. Zerg vs Zerg is ok as long as there are multiple smaller groups running around supporting the Zerg.
To take a keep you should need 3+ full groups to be off holding other objectives to make it possible. Keeping your supply lines open, keeping theirs suppressed, maybe a group holding a spawn point etc. There needs to be a lot of opportunity for group vs group style fights that impact the larger battle.
If you take a structure it needs to feel like it matters, give you a bonus towards taking the next structure in line, be important enough that you feel like you need to actually hold it for some time instead of just running off to the next one.
Usually these games revolve around just trading structures non stop for points and the zerg holds way more of the power than anything else in the zone.
Originally posted by Osmanthus Originally posted by david31741I can't understand why people judge a game in Beta - against games that developed to their "final" state...after years!!
Let me explain it to you then. In the past many years, MMO's have had alphas and betas with serious flaws, but those flaws were never addressed in release even though they were reported ad-nauseum by the testers.
People who do a lot of alpha testing and beta testing have seen this over and over and over, and have become quite cynical about the ability of a game company to make significant changes after beta.
One I can state is DDO: Online (Eu release) when we beta tested that you couldn't switch to two weapons, it would just keep switching your main weapon unless you went into menu and manually switched it.
This was reported by everyone in game and their forums for ages and it was still ingame after release and it's one of the skills you can have in your builds from level1+ depending on class and feat choice still they couldn't be bothered to fix it.
- real PvP (killing real players) and not PvDoor PvEmptyKeeps
- having the option to PvP competitively (like DAoC's 8v8) or casually (zerg vs zerg)
- zone-wide kill spam
- realm pride
Sadly ESO has none of those
Agreed, pretty lousy version of what DAOC was.
So are you guys just going to keep living in the past angry about the games of today and how they aren't exactly how you want them to be, not playing them waiting for that perfect pvp game to show up that will never come? Or are you going to just enjoy some of today's games for what they offer even if they aren't everything you were hoping for? My guess is that you'll stay bitter and keep posting on the forums about how all the pvp systems of today suck while we have fun with what there is, but I hope some of you learn to let yourselves have fun in this imperfect mmo world.
- real PvP (killing real players) and not PvDoor PvEmptyKeeps
- having the option to PvP competitively (like DAoC's 8v8) or casually (zerg vs zerg)
- zone-wide kill spam
- realm pride
Sadly ESO has none of those
Agreed, pretty lousy version of what DAOC was.
So are you guys just going to keep living in the past angry about the games of today and how they aren't exactly how you want them to be, not playing them waiting for that perfect pvp game to show up that will never come? Or are you going to just enjoy some of today's games for what they offer even if they aren't everything you were hoping for? My guess is that you'll stay bitter and keep posting on the forums about how all the pvp systems of today suck while we have fun with what there is.
I'm convinced that many people in these forums don't play MMORPGs.
They are attracted to the idea of MMORPGs and what they think they could or should be but they don't really like any real ones.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
- real PvP (killing real players) and not PvDoor PvEmptyKeeps
- having the option to PvP competitively (like DAoC's 8v8) or casually (zerg vs zerg)
- zone-wide kill spam
- realm pride
Sadly ESO has none of those
Agreed, pretty lousy version of what DAOC was.
So are you guys just going to keep living in the past angry about the games of today and how they aren't exactly how you want them to be, not playing them waiting for that perfect pvp game to show up that will never come? Or are you going to just enjoy some of today's games for what they offer even if they aren't everything you were hoping for? My guess is that you'll stay bitter and keep posting on the forums about how all the pvp systems of today suck while we have fun with what there is, but I hope some of you learn to let yourselves have fun in this imperfect mmo world.
I've argued with these guys on the Camelot Unchained forums. What they're after, in a nutshell, is powerful CC that turns a large group of people into statues for a long period of time so that they can /assist pick them off one by one. This was the gameplay in daoc before they eventually nerfed it because of the outcry against it. The motivation behind it is to bring back the "leet" 8-man "Achilles and his Mermen taking out an entire army" experience. The trouble for them is, not many people want to be stuck with the Mezz-and-farm style of gameplay that they're after. I was on both the giving and receiving side of that and it just got boring. I think the best way to give small groups viability is with a big map with small objectives. And it sounds like ESO is already addressing these concerns. But nothing will satisfy these guys until super powerful mezz is in the game with a one minute plus timer.
- real PvP (killing real players) and not PvDoor PvEmptyKeeps
- having the option to PvP competitively (like DAoC's 8v8) or casually (zerg vs zerg)
- zone-wide kill spam
- realm pride
Sadly ESO has none of those
Agreed, pretty lousy version of what DAOC was.
So are you guys just going to keep living in the past angry about the games of today and how they aren't exactly how you want them to be, not playing them waiting for that perfect pvp game to show up that will never come? Or are you going to just enjoy some of today's games for what they offer even if they aren't everything you were hoping for? My guess is that you'll stay bitter and keep posting on the forums about how all the pvp systems of today suck while we have fun with what there is, but I hope some of you learn to let yourselves have fun in this imperfect mmo world.
I've argued with these guys on the Camelot Unchained forums. What they're after, in a nutshell, is powerful CC that turns a large group of people into statues for a long period of time so that they can /assist pick them off one by one. This was the gameplay in daoc before they eventually nerfed it because of the outcry against it. The motivation behind it is to bring back the "leet" 8-man "Achilles and his Mermen taking out an entire army" experience. The trouble for them is, not many people want to be stuck with the Mezz-and-farm style of gameplay that they're after. I was on both the giving and receiving side of that and it just got boring. I think the best way to give small groups viability is with a big map with small objectives. And it sounds like ESO is already addressing these concerns. But nothing will satisfy these guys until super powerful mezz is in the game with a one minute plus timer.
Ahhhh... the memories
I leveled as an Earth/Ice Theurgist so I was one of those guys who ahd my ice high enough that I could AOE root an unlimited number of closely packed players for more than 60 seconds... which was often since, zergs there traveled mostly using "follow."
And that was not even the worst since at least you could use abilities while rooted. It was the AOE mezzes and stuns that were really annoying because you could do nothing.... as were my annoying multiple air elementals once I re-specced to Air that could stun lock single players.
Those were ridiculously OP'd and they serve as a great example of how not to do it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
There is also comparative size. If there is 2 of you and 20 of them you might call them a zerg. If there is 20 of you and 60 of them you might call them a zerg.
Comments
I expected Panzerkampfwagen 6's and unicorns but sadly ESO has none of those. Btw topic is about large scale pvp.
To me, its all about choice. People choose to join zergs, casual guilds etc etc, and there is nothing wrong with that.
I have played pretty much every pvp game going from Daoc to Darkfall and it was always the case of choosing your playstyle. I have always found my niche in these games as I love small scale. I have also taken on far larger numbers and won, which is probably one of the best feelings in any pvp game.
Its all about mindset and having the right people around you, who have the same goals and preferences as you. Anything is possible for those type of people, as its the challenge that keeps them interested.
So find the right guild, play the way you want and have fun, as you will always find those golden moments, and casual zerg players deserve them as much as elite hardcore ones. There is always room for every type of player in a game as the wolves cant live without the sheep.
DAOC let small groups take out big groups because AE CC was way too powerful and because most small groups ran at least one person with a map hack so always had the elemental of surprise.
To answer the OPs question. Zerg vs Zerg is ok as long as there are multiple smaller groups running around supporting the Zerg.
To take a keep you should need 3+ full groups to be off holding other objectives to make it possible. Keeping your supply lines open, keeping theirs suppressed, maybe a group holding a spawn point etc. There needs to be a lot of opportunity for group vs group style fights that impact the larger battle.
If you take a structure it needs to feel like it matters, give you a bonus towards taking the next structure in line, be important enough that you feel like you need to actually hold it for some time instead of just running off to the next one.
Usually these games revolve around just trading structures non stop for points and the zerg holds way more of the power than anything else in the zone.
People who do a lot of alpha testing and beta testing have seen this over and over and over, and have become quite cynical about the ability of a game company to make significant changes after beta.
One I can state is DDO: Online (Eu release) when we beta tested that you couldn't switch to two weapons, it would just keep switching your main weapon unless you went into menu and manually switched it.
This was reported by everyone in game and their forums for ages and it was still ingame after release and it's one of the skills you can have in your builds from level1+ depending on class and feat choice still they couldn't be bothered to fix it.
So are you guys just going to keep living in the past angry about the games of today and how they aren't exactly how you want them to be, not playing them waiting for that perfect pvp game to show up that will never come? Or are you going to just enjoy some of today's games for what they offer even if they aren't everything you were hoping for? My guess is that you'll stay bitter and keep posting on the forums about how all the pvp systems of today suck while we have fun with what there is, but I hope some of you learn to let yourselves have fun in this imperfect mmo world.
I'm convinced that many people in these forums don't play MMORPGs.
They are attracted to the idea of MMORPGs and what they think they could or should be but they don't really like any real ones.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I've argued with these guys on the Camelot Unchained forums. What they're after, in a nutshell, is powerful CC that turns a large group of people into statues for a long period of time so that they can /assist pick them off one by one. This was the gameplay in daoc before they eventually nerfed it because of the outcry against it. The motivation behind it is to bring back the "leet" 8-man "Achilles and his Mermen taking out an entire army" experience. The trouble for them is, not many people want to be stuck with the Mezz-and-farm style of gameplay that they're after. I was on both the giving and receiving side of that and it just got boring. I think the best way to give small groups viability is with a big map with small objectives. And it sounds like ESO is already addressing these concerns. But nothing will satisfy these guys until super powerful mezz is in the game with a one minute plus timer.
Ahhhh... the memories
I leveled as an Earth/Ice Theurgist so I was one of those guys who ahd my ice high enough that I could AOE root an unlimited number of closely packed players for more than 60 seconds... which was often since, zergs there traveled mostly using "follow."
And that was not even the worst since at least you could use abilities while rooted. It was the AOE mezzes and stuns that were really annoying because you could do nothing.... as were my annoying multiple air elementals once I re-specced to Air that could stun lock single players.
Those were ridiculously OP'd and they serve as a great example of how not to do it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
We won the war and together went on to have one of the largest empires the world has ever seen.