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UI addon vs ZOS Philosophy
Leoric187
Member Posts: 12
Target Enemy Player Live PvP Stats
If you watch just off center of screen, you will see the UI mode display target enemy players [Name, Class, Level, Health/Stamina/Magicka Pools, Buffs, Debuffs, and Spell Casting Interrupt Timer]
If you don't mind having the option to playing the game at a disadvantage, or if you would like to play having the option that goes against what they've said in interviews.
UI mod from video directly contradicts this statment.
ZOS is emphasizing that visual cues for enemy abilities that require various player responses are prominently displayed in the world rather than simply as a UI element. Instead of using interface prompts like cast bars or text warnings, players will be required to watch the physical movements of enemies in order to anticipate their attacks.
Client side superficial are fine, but not when its live data used against others .. knowingly or not.
ZeniMax recognizes the strong role of the modding community in Elder Scrolls franchise, and certain aspects of the game experience, like the UI, will allow for user customization, reskinning, and limited modification. ESO will support LUA based modifications that will allow modders to interact with the game's systems through an API. This will allow modders to create interface based modifications like enhanced combat text or buff timers.
Contradiction with the allowance for much UI mods.
The ESO gameplay experience is designed to be "distraction based", in that instead of following an on-rails trajectory of advancement, players explore the world and encounter quests, dungeons, and events which are strategically placed to emphasize exploration and non-guided advancement.
** Quotes from TF.com Development FAQ **
Comments
So....
ESO will have the same types of addon's available as other MMO's have.
I'd actually be shocked if that surprised people, despite what Zenimax may have originally intended.
Yes, thats what i was afraid off, these mods turned the great ideas of the developers intoo an ordinary wow clone...
if these mods become mandatory for performing top in pvp, then it actually ruins much of the gameplay for me... When the game forces me to watch ui ellements to be a top performer it fails... I just want to watch the action on the screen and react toit, without being at a disadvantage..
ui mods like these have no place in a competitive pvp environment, or an immersive pve environment.... And thats exactly the two sides of this game
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I have been fighting the good fight over at the bethesda forums raising awareness about the "pvp" mods you mentioned showing all enemy player info.
People say all mmos have had these mods but they fail to bring up the comparison of the fact that these mmos they refer to have only battlegrounds and pvp arenas.
ESO has a open world zone that is based around territory control that is the actual end game.
These mods are completely unacceptable and basically cheating in this type of pvp setting.
I fully support mods that help people with pve and ui enhancements and that is where they should end.
I am excitedly looking forward to what ESO has to offer as a new mmo but until there is clarification on the usage of these type of mods from Zenimax I will not be purchasing their product.
Life IS Feudal
Daoc did not have mods.... Which is their greatest example of great pvp..
they really should get away with this stuff before the gamereleases, because if they change things later on people will start crying for sure. As the OP clearly states, these mods are against everything they want their game to be.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
There's a strong emphasis on PVP and AvA, and the combat requires a certain amount of player "skill".
Therefore, many players will look for any advantage they can get. Quite a few will cheat heavily, because they want to "win" at any cost. I'm sure the map hacks and aimbots are all developed and tested and ready for sale already...
If Add-On's give any advantage in PVP, they will be mandatory for anyone with a competitive nature. Who wants to lose if they could be winning ? These apps may not be much use in castle sieges, but in one-on-one's they will be vital.
On top of that..... The ui enhancements werent that usefull at all..
- the list of effects on the ennemy moved way to fast to be of any use..
- the floating combat text didnt add anything either, it just distracted from the combat..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Wait til everyone builds macros for every situation that is read by these mods.
If they block the api info that these modders have access to I will purchase and play the game if not there are many other options that will be available on the market.
Gloria Victus is one I have my eye on and it has just been greenlit on steam.
Life IS Feudal
Don't be ridiculous. First off, aimbots are so utterly unnecessary for this game. Just because it has a crosshair doesn't mean it plays just like an FPS. If you're aiming relatively close to your target then you will hit them. It's not hitscan like FPS games are. Second, no one has map hacks ready for this game. Hacks are not generally a problem in AAA MMORPGs because unlike an FPS, you can't just make a new account and continue playing. You'd have to level up all over again. Plus, all hacks get detected eventually and once the ban waves start rolling out, people that did hack won't feel like investing all that time again and people thinking about it will realize it's not worth it.
Well there you go, I guess they aren't an issue.
Bottom line is the info is there, if people are shocked that addon's are taking information that is already in the game and either bringing it to light, or making it more useful then they've missed the last few years of MMO's.
Don't want 'em, don't like 'em? No problem, but plenty of people do, and fortunately ZOS has made it possible.
Yes, ZOS has made it possible by going against their stated game design and have MMO "1337" bastardized ESO. Seriously, not usefully? It would only take a few tweaks of coding, I presume, to add separate windows showing buffs or castings. You wanna Pay to Play w/ people being allowed to cheat / cheapen gameplay .. go right ahead.
who cares
it does nothing to detract from the gameplay.
The video shows nothing that would give an advantage to the mod user.
The only thing those mods would help is if he used it on a practice dummy to min/max.
Really, what advantage did he have over others? He could see his damage? He could see a buff icon? What good did it do him?
The vast majority of MMO gamers are control freaks and achievers. With that in mind, I can not fathom why ZOS decided to blatantly ignore all we know about MMO gamers and MMOs, kick people in the groin with traditiona MMO habits and seriously expect peope to actually play a MMO without all the detailled info.
It's so absurd, I don't know if I should cry or laugh.
Most MMO gamers are control freaks who aim for achievements. Fact. They want info. TONS of it. Because information allows control and thus to optimize your strategy. In a Darwinistic sense, the person with more info will beat the person with less. It's that simple.
And yes, there are the immersion roleplayer orchids, but I doubt you 10 guys would fill a MMORPG.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Just look at what Mod's did to WoW
nuff said
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Is it really that hard to join a guild that has no addon requirement?
Or better yet, if you like limiting yourself and don't want to be at a disadvantage why not just wait a few months and play on console where addons wont exist? As you have the OPTION to not use addons as well as the OPTION to play a version of the game that doesn't allow addons at all open to you, why do you think it's OK to restrict the options of those that do want more info?
And the people panicking over addons enabling "cheats" and "hacks" are funny at best and just plain scaremongering at worse
I will have to wait until official word from ZOS but several of these mods come with macros added in (including full gear swaps). These are in direct conflict of the understanding of what is permissible for Add-Ons. Including several of Wykkyd's mods. If they allow anything other than the intended. So it will depend on how true to the original goal is, if you can us add-ons to actually interact with the world, then separate PVP campaigns will be needed.
"You may only create programs that modify UI or collect, analyze and display different data."
The base ui already shows level
http://i.imgur.com/8Mume9K.jpg
I am hoping people develop some minimal add ons for only the information we require. Several pvp videos show people using mods spamming damage numbers all over their screen. It baffles me completely why they feel they need that. It doesn't even register in your brain as it is nothing more than a mess. It seems the Wow-style mmo crowd can't play a mmo without flashy junk all over the place that blocks what is actually happening on screen.
I'd like to know more about my enemy and timers for dots and hots along with visible debuffs on myself. All very minimal. Damage logs can be kept within a small window and only viewable if I choose it.
You stay sassy!
My fears exactly. I really wonder why they are introducing such feature at all. GUI in TESO has problems for sure but allowing players to do anything with is seems a bit drastic.
No, we won't have Healbots and Warlock Buddy's and anything that can press skills or move or target for you. That's something at least.
I do wish we could make a big enough stink that they get rid of addons though (or limit them purely to cosmetic adjustments.) If no one has access to them, then no one has to put up with that shit on their screen. They provide no actual benefit aside from Zeni being too fearful of scaring away the spreadsheet-lovers playing WoW (which would be a good thing, imo.)
A few thoughts came to my mind after watching part of the video. First, the add-ons will most definitely provide an advantage to the user. Why create such add-ons if not to provide an edge?
Take, for instance, a small encounter where someone is trying to capture a resource like a farm and has to fight another player in order to do so. The player-made modifications to the UI would make it a lot easier to maintain a DoT without over-using or under-using the associated ability, therefore optimizing resource management. Furthermore, the ability to view the player's magicka and stamina would accurately tell when best to expend resources and burst the player down, because if the enemy's magicka is low, the enemy can't heal effectively and can't counter a burst. Not only that, the add-on also states when a player is using an ability that has a cast time, considerably facilitating a counter-move like the use of blocks or interrupts.
All in all, if this goes live, add-ons will be an absolute necessity for competitive gaming, be it PvE or PvP, unless you enjoy playing at a very real disadvantage.
My opinion on all of this is that ESO is first and foremost an Elder Scrolls game, and should therefore do what it must in order to preserve the Elder Scrolls feel. The minute you introduce a necessity to drastically modify your UI in order to remain competitive, you cripple the Elder Scrolls feel of the game, and you lose your IP's identity. I believe ZeniMax Online should very carefully rethink all of this, and not allow for such modifications to be made.