I am hoping people develop some minimal add ons for only the information we require. Several pvp videos show people using mods spamming damage numbers all over their screen. It baffles me completely why they feel they need that. It doesn't even register in your brain as it is nothing more than a mess. It seems the Wow-style mmo crowd can't play a mmo without flashy junk all over the place that blocks what is actually happening on screen.
I'd like to know more about my enemy and timers for dots and hots along with visible debuffs on myself. All very minimal. Damage logs can be kept within a small window and only viewable if I choose it.
No one actually requires that combat information, as enough practice with the game would have a skilled player memorizing it anyway. So really, that kind of information is as much a culprit as the floating damage numbers. Mind you, I wouldn't mind a combat log that people could look at -after the fact- so they could dissect the fight -after- it happened, but not so that everyone has to watch the text and not play the game while they're fighting in order to remain on equal footing.
If an UI addon can give you an advantage that basically means the standard UI is crap. And in my eyes ESO ui IS crap.
I love UI addons, because no game can please everyone. Building your own UI just means i can adjust the game to look like i want and i will definitly play longer and stay subbed longer this way.
Again: If these Addons give advantages, the base UI has issues (apart from the look).
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by nerovipus32 These top guilds ruin mmo's with their constant cheating. If these top guilds were actually any good they wouldn't need mods. Mods should be completely banned from pvp.
Use your Mods! You know you want to! I can feel the l33tness swelling in you!
TAKE THE ADDONS! GANK ME DOWN WITH THE ADDONS AND YOU HAVE COMPLETED YOUR WAY TO THE WOW SIDE!
XD
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
My opinion on all of this is that ESO is first and foremost an Elder Scrolls game, and should therefore do what it must in order to preserve the Elder Scrolls feel. The minute you introduce a necessity to drastically modify your UI in order to remain competitive, you cripple the Elder Scrolls feel of the game, and you lose your IP's identity. I believe ZeniMax Online should very carefully rethink all of this, and not allow for such modifications to be made.
Yes because elder scrolls games on the pc have never enabled and encouraged people to modify their game in ways that can (if they choose) give you an advantage, and if they did (which of course they don't) the modding community would be tiny with hardly any downloads what so ever because elder scrolls series and its fans are absolutely definitely not in any way in favour of mods at all
/sarcasm
Non of the mods shown for teso give players a big advantage (unlike some of the mods for the other tes games), they just provide info for those that want it and will only become a "necessity" for the guilds that require them, and theres the answer join a guild that doesn't.
A few thoughts came to my mind after watching part of the video. First, the add-ons will most definitely provide an advantage to the user. Why create such add-ons if not to provide an edge?
Take, for instance, a small encounter where someone is trying to capture a resource like a farm and has to fight another player in order to do so. The player-made modifications to the UI would make it a lot easier to maintain a DoT without over-using or under-using the associated ability, therefore optimizing resource management. Furthermore, the ability to view the player's magicka and stamina would accurately tell when best to expend resources and burst the player down, because if the enemy's magicka is low, the enemy can't heal effectively and can't counter a burst. Not only that, the add-on also states when a player is using an ability that has a cast time, considerably facilitating a counter-move like the use of blocks or interrupts.
All in all, if this goes live, add-ons will be an absolute necessity for competitive gaming, be it PvE or PvP, unless you enjoy playing at a very real disadvantage.
My opinion on all of this is that ESO is first and foremost an Elder Scrolls game, and should therefore do what it must in order to preserve the Elder Scrolls feel. The minute you introduce a necessity to drastically modify your UI in order to remain competitive, you cripple the Elder Scrolls feel of the game, and you lose your IP's identity. I believe ZeniMax Online should very carefully rethink all of this, and not allow for such modifications to be made.
I'll take your challenge. You get every addon in the world that you think will give you an advantage. I'll use none. Let's fight and see who wins.
I can guarantee you that you won't faceroll me, even if you actually win the fight.
Skill does not an addon make.
Edit: Anyone who loved games like Skyrim should not be against the use of mods. It took many mods to make that game great.
I have been fighting the good fight over at the bethesda forums raising awareness about the "pvp" mods you mentioned showing all enemy player info.
People say all mmos have had these mods but they fail to bring up the comparison of the fact that these mmos they refer to have only battlegrounds and pvp arenas.
ESO has a open world zone that is based around territory control that is the actual end game.
These mods are completely unacceptable and basically cheating in this type of pvp setting.
I fully support mods that help people with pve and ui enhancements and that is where they should end.
I am excitedly looking forward to what ESO has to offer as a new mmo but until there is clarification on the usage of these type of mods from Zenimax I will not be purchasing their product.
I'd rather see the results of this discussion at the official forums ...than getting all worked up about it here . The video the OP posted was certainly the most invasive add on I've seen yet , and to be honest if that's what it's going to take to compete at AvA it's going to be a major disappointment indeed
I have been fighting the good fight over at the bethesda forums raising awareness about the "pvp" mods you mentioned showing all enemy player info.
People say all mmos have had these mods but they fail to bring up the comparison of the fact that these mmos they refer to have only battlegrounds and pvp arenas.
ESO has a open world zone that is based around territory control that is the actual end game.
These mods are completely unacceptable and basically cheating in this type of pvp setting.
I fully support mods that help people with pve and ui enhancements and that is where they should end.
I am excitedly looking forward to what ESO has to offer as a new mmo but until there is clarification on the usage of these type of mods from Zenimax I will not be purchasing their product.
I'd rather see the results of this discussion at the official forums ...than getting all worked up about it here . The video the OP
posted was certainly the most invasive add on I've seen yet , and to be honest if that's what it's going to take to compete
at AvA it's going to be a major disappointment indeed
The video didn't show anything that would give someone a real advantage over someone without mods. They can track a dot? I can count. They can see my stamina/magic? They don't know what my build is. They can see floating combat text? They don't even 'actually' see it anymore...it's just background noise to them...actually, it might give me an advantage because they are trying to watch all of that while I'm focused on actual PvP. Macros you say? My mouse does that. Going to ban Razer mice? Can anyone really point to a REAL advantage that it gave?
I haven't played an MMO that allows addons in a long time, but back when I did, I didn't have an issue with them. These things are always optional, so I don't care if they are available or not.
I'll take your challenge. You get every addon in the world that you think will give you an advantage. I'll use none. Let's fight and see who wins.
I can guarantee you that you won't faceroll me, even if you actually win the fight.
Skill does not an addon make.
Edit: Anyone who loved games like Skyrim should not be against the use of mods. It took many mods to make that game great.
You failed to grasp my point. Someone that uses add-ons does not need to faceroll, or even win an encounter for that matter, to prove that add-ons provide a real advantage. There are many variables that need to be taken into account which can influence the outcome of a battle. However, add-ons are most definitely part of said variables because they provide information regarding the encounter in a way that is far easier to interpret and take advantage of, therefore providing an advantage. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to see this. Answer me this: For what purpose do you think these add-ons were made in the first place?
Yes, Skyrim did indeed allow for mods. However, there is a reason these types specifically of add-ons are not considered popular in that game: It is because there is no competitive scenario with other players in a single-player game. Therefore, there is no necessity to modify a UI to remain at the top. Tell me, how many people do you think actually use mods like the ones present in the video for Skyrim?
I'll take your challenge. You get every addon in the world that you think will give you an advantage. I'll use none. Let's fight and see who wins.
I can guarantee you that you won't faceroll me, even if you actually win the fight.
Skill does not an addon make.
Edit: Anyone who loved games like Skyrim should not be against the use of mods. It took many mods to make that game great.
You failed to grasp my point. Someone that uses add-ons does not need to faceroll, or even win an encounter for that matter, to prove that add-ons provide a real advantage. There are many variables that need to be taken into account which can influence the outcome of a battle. However, add-ons are most definitely part of said variables because they provide information regarding the encounter in a way that is far easier to interpret and take advantage of, therefore providing an advantage. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to see this. Answer me this: For what purpose do you think these add-ons were made in the first place?
Yes, Skyrim did indeed allow for mods. However, there is a reason these types specifically of add-ons are not considered popular in that game: It is because there is no competitive scenario with other players in a single-player game. Therefore, there is no necessity to modify a UI to remain at the top. Tell me, how many people do you think actually use mods like the ones present in the video for Skyrim?
Quite a few use them, actually.
Tell me, what advantage do you think the addons in the video gave?
On top of that..... The ui enhancements werent that usefull at all..
- the list of effects on the ennemy moved way to fast to be of any use..
- the floating combat text didnt add anything either, it just distracted from the combat..
My guess is a video of the fight can be used for combat review.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Yes, thats what i was afraid off, these mods turned the great ideas of the developers intoo an ordinary wow clone...
if these mods become mandatory for performing top in pvp, then it actually ruins much of the gameplay for me... When the game forces me to watch ui ellements to be a top performer it fails... I just want to watch the action on the screen and react toit, without being at a disadvantage..
ui mods like these have no place in a competitive pvp environment, or an immersive pve environment.... And thats exactly the two sides of this game
Mods do know such thing. Mods have been the hallmark of ALL Elder Scrolls Games and the ONLINE version shouldn't be any different.
no offense but it's kind of nice to turn that back around on all the people whose told me so much over the last few months.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I know right? It's the most successful and profitable MMO of all time. And still is.
I don't believe the mods are in any way responsible for WoWs popularity. But I do believe that certain mods were responsible for cheapening and dumbing down certain aspects of the game.
These mods do not provide any advantage. They actually distract you from playing your class optimally.
People love 'hard numbers' that these addons can provide, but it won't help you in the heat of the moment. It's nice maybe for theory crafting later but trying to read this info while pvping will slow you down with this style combat.
Acolytes Gaming (forums.acolytesgaming.com)
Sheep or Shepard- Make up your own damn mind.
It is true, the older you get, the less patience you have for those who watch a Youtube video and from that believe they know it all.
You failed to grasp my point. Someone that uses add-ons does not need to faceroll, or even win an encounter for that matter, to prove that add-ons provide a real advantage. There are many variables that need to be taken into account which can influence the outcome of a battle. However, add-ons are most definitely part of said variables because they provide information regarding the encounter in a way that is far easier to interpret and take advantage of, therefore providing an advantage. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to see this. Answer me this: For what purpose do you think these add-ons were made in the first place?
Yes, Skyrim did indeed allow for mods. However, there is a reason these types specifically of add-ons are not considered popular in that game: It is because there is no competitive scenario with other players in a single-player game. Therefore, there is no necessity to modify a UI to remain at the top. Tell me, how many people do you think actually use mods like the ones present in the video for Skyrim?
Quite a few use them, actually.
Tell me, what advantage do you think the addons in the video gave?
Excuse me, but that is bullshit. I don't see a single mod on nexus in the top 100 most endorsed or downloaded that does something similar to what the add-on in the video does. Mods are definitely a big part of Skyrim, but not add-ons of this sort.
Furthermore, I have already provided a LENGTHY example of how add-ons can provide a real advantage in an encounter. I suppose you decided to ignore that or something. Whatever the case may be, I shall once again repeat myself. Add-ons like the one in the video allows the player to know exactly how much health, magicka, and stamina the enemy has, which spell or ability with a cast time the enemy is currently using, which buffs and debuffs the enemy currently has, and which buffs and debuffs the player currently has. If you do not see the advantage these additional pieces of information provide to a user, I honestly don't think you have ever taken part in competitive PvP.
Nevertheless, I will assume you don't know and will state them using even more examples.
Example #1: You X Healer/Caster
You are fighting Healer/Caster and your add-on tells you he is very low on magicka. With this, he can't react to any burst DPS that he suffers with emergency heals until his magicka regenerates, and this opens up a perfect window of opportunity to burn your resources in an attempt to burst him down.
Example #2: You X Any Enemy
You are fighting an enemy and you apply a DoT on him and he applies a DoT on you. You have a cleanse ability which removes an enemy's DoT. The add-on tells you that you are afflicted by an enemy's DoT and you proceed to cleanse it. Meanwhile your DoT is ticking, and by knowing exactly when it ends, you can reapply your DoT with perfect timing, not wasting any resources over-applying your DoT, or not losing DPS by not applying your DoT in time.
Example #3: You X Any Enemy
You are fighting an enemy and you're both damaged. The add-on tells you he is charging up an ability that you know will kill you if it hits because the add-on tells exactly which ability that is. You only have the resources to use one stun without having to wait for your resources to regenerate, but knowing you have to interrupt this ability or else you die, you pop your stun.
Example #4: You X Any Enemy
You are fighting an enemy and he is nearing death. You have an ability that deals X damage to the enemy, and X+Y damage to the enemy if he is below 20% Health. Your add-on tells you the exact percentage of Health that your enemy currently has and you successfully use your ability in the optimal moment, not wasting any unnecessary resources while maximizing DPS.
You can't prevent people from using addons even if they make it illegal.
I'd be more worried about the "secret" addons that people are not showing yet and less about ones that present basic info already provided. I'm sure there's already a radar hack for AvA making all that stealth meaningless.
You can't prevent people from using addons even if they make it illegal.
I'd be more worried about the "secret" addons that people are not showing yet and less about ones that present basic info already provided. I'm sure there's already a radar hack for AvA making all that stealth meaningless.
You are correct. GW2 doesn't support addons, so people made a variety of "always on top" overlays that work out quite nicely.
I know right? It's the most successful and profitable MMO of all time. And still is.
Is Wow's main end game territory control pvp or just some battlegrounds and pvp matches added on that don't mean anything when they are over?
So your saying having a slight advantage in mass pvp where all sides are rarely if ever equal anyway has more impact than in pvp where all sides are guaranteed to be pretty even at all times? Is this opposite day?
I know right? It's the most successful and profitable MMO of all time. And still is.
Is Wow's main end game territory control pvp or just some battlegrounds and pvp matches added on that don't mean anything when they are over?
So your saying having a slight advantage in mass pvp where all sides are rarely if ever equal anyway has more impact than in pvp where all sides are guaranteed to be pretty even at all times? Is this opposite day?
Are you sure your posting in the right thread? If so please be a little more clear and illustrate a point for further discussion.
Comments
No one actually requires that combat information, as enough practice with the game would have a skilled player memorizing it anyway. So really, that kind of information is as much a culprit as the floating damage numbers. Mind you, I wouldn't mind a combat log that people could look at -after the fact- so they could dissect the fight -after- it happened, but not so that everyone has to watch the text and not play the game while they're fighting in order to remain on equal footing.
If an UI addon can give you an advantage that basically means the standard UI is crap. And in my eyes ESO ui IS crap.
I love UI addons, because no game can please everyone. Building your own UI just means i can adjust the game to look like i want and i will definitly play longer and stay subbed longer this way.
Again: If these Addons give advantages, the base UI has issues (apart from the look).
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Use your Mods! You know you want to! I can feel the l33tness swelling in you!
TAKE THE ADDONS! GANK ME DOWN WITH THE ADDONS AND YOU HAVE COMPLETED YOUR WAY TO THE WOW SIDE!
XD
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Yes because elder scrolls games on the pc have never enabled and encouraged people to modify their game in ways that can (if they choose) give you an advantage, and if they did (which of course they don't) the modding community would be tiny with hardly any downloads what so ever because elder scrolls series and its fans are absolutely definitely not in any way in favour of mods at all
/sarcasm
Non of the mods shown for teso give players a big advantage (unlike some of the mods for the other tes games), they just provide info for those that want it and will only become a "necessity" for the guilds that require them, and theres the answer join a guild that doesn't.
I'll take your challenge. You get every addon in the world that you think will give you an advantage. I'll use none. Let's fight and see who wins.
I can guarantee you that you won't faceroll me, even if you actually win the fight.
Skill does not an addon make.
Edit: Anyone who loved games like Skyrim should not be against the use of mods. It took many mods to make that game great.
I'd rather see the results of this discussion at the official forums ...than getting all worked up about it here . The video the OP posted was certainly the most invasive add on I've seen yet , and to be honest if that's what it's going to take to compete at AvA it's going to be a major disappointment indeed
The video didn't show anything that would give someone a real advantage over someone without mods. They can track a dot? I can count. They can see my stamina/magic? They don't know what my build is. They can see floating combat text? They don't even 'actually' see it anymore...it's just background noise to them...actually, it might give me an advantage because they are trying to watch all of that while I'm focused on actual PvP. Macros you say? My mouse does that. Going to ban Razer mice? Can anyone really point to a REAL advantage that it gave?
You failed to grasp my point. Someone that uses add-ons does not need to faceroll, or even win an encounter for that matter, to prove that add-ons provide a real advantage. There are many variables that need to be taken into account which can influence the outcome of a battle. However, add-ons are most definitely part of said variables because they provide information regarding the encounter in a way that is far easier to interpret and take advantage of, therefore providing an advantage. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to see this. Answer me this: For what purpose do you think these add-ons were made in the first place?
Yes, Skyrim did indeed allow for mods. However, there is a reason these types specifically of add-ons are not considered popular in that game: It is because there is no competitive scenario with other players in a single-player game. Therefore, there is no necessity to modify a UI to remain at the top. Tell me, how many people do you think actually use mods like the ones present in the video for Skyrim?
Quite a few use them, actually.
Tell me, what advantage do you think the addons in the video gave?
My guess is a video of the fight can be used for combat review.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Mods do know such thing. Mods have been the hallmark of ALL Elder Scrolls Games and the ONLINE version shouldn't be any different.
no offense but it's kind of nice to turn that back around on all the people whose told me so much over the last few months.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Just allow me to block my api info and your welcome to run any mods you like.
That sounds like a good compromise.
edit- Unless your scared of me.
and look at my post count, you should be...
Life IS Feudal
I know right? It's the most successful and profitable MMO of all time. And still is.
I don't believe the mods are in any way responsible for WoWs popularity. But I do believe that certain mods were responsible for cheapening and dumbing down certain aspects of the game.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
These mods do not provide any advantage. They actually distract you from playing your class optimally.
People love 'hard numbers' that these addons can provide, but it won't help you in the heat of the moment. It's nice maybe for theory crafting later but trying to read this info while pvping will slow you down with this style combat.
Acolytes Gaming (forums.acolytesgaming.com)
Sheep or Shepard- Make up your own damn mind.
It is true, the older you get, the less patience you have for those who watch a Youtube video and from that believe they know it all.
Excuse me, but that is bullshit. I don't see a single mod on nexus in the top 100 most endorsed or downloaded that does something similar to what the add-on in the video does. Mods are definitely a big part of Skyrim, but not add-ons of this sort.
Furthermore, I have already provided a LENGTHY example of how add-ons can provide a real advantage in an encounter. I suppose you decided to ignore that or something. Whatever the case may be, I shall once again repeat myself. Add-ons like the one in the video allows the player to know exactly how much health, magicka, and stamina the enemy has, which spell or ability with a cast time the enemy is currently using, which buffs and debuffs the enemy currently has, and which buffs and debuffs the player currently has. If you do not see the advantage these additional pieces of information provide to a user, I honestly don't think you have ever taken part in competitive PvP.
Nevertheless, I will assume you don't know and will state them using even more examples.
Example #1: You X Healer/Caster
You are fighting Healer/Caster and your add-on tells you he is very low on magicka. With this, he can't react to any burst DPS that he suffers with emergency heals until his magicka regenerates, and this opens up a perfect window of opportunity to burn your resources in an attempt to burst him down.
Example #2: You X Any Enemy
You are fighting an enemy and you apply a DoT on him and he applies a DoT on you. You have a cleanse ability which removes an enemy's DoT. The add-on tells you that you are afflicted by an enemy's DoT and you proceed to cleanse it. Meanwhile your DoT is ticking, and by knowing exactly when it ends, you can reapply your DoT with perfect timing, not wasting any resources over-applying your DoT, or not losing DPS by not applying your DoT in time.
Example #3: You X Any Enemy
You are fighting an enemy and you're both damaged. The add-on tells you he is charging up an ability that you know will kill you if it hits because the add-on tells exactly which ability that is. You only have the resources to use one stun without having to wait for your resources to regenerate, but knowing you have to interrupt this ability or else you die, you pop your stun.
Example #4: You X Any Enemy
You are fighting an enemy and he is nearing death. You have an ability that deals X damage to the enemy, and X+Y damage to the enemy if he is below 20% Health. Your add-on tells you the exact percentage of Health that your enemy currently has and you successfully use your ability in the optimal moment, not wasting any unnecessary resources while maximizing DPS.
You can't prevent people from using addons even if they make it illegal.
I'd be more worried about the "secret" addons that people are not showing yet and less about ones that present basic info already provided. I'm sure there's already a radar hack for AvA making all that stealth meaningless.
You are correct. GW2 doesn't support addons, so people made a variety of "always on top" overlays that work out quite nicely.
Ryoshi1 as Rikimaru
Is Wow's main end game territory control pvp or just some battlegrounds and pvp matches added on that don't mean anything when they are over?
Life IS Feudal
So your saying having a slight advantage in mass pvp where all sides are rarely if ever equal anyway has more impact than in pvp where all sides are guaranteed to be pretty even at all times? Is this opposite day?
Are you sure your posting in the right thread? If so please be a little more clear and illustrate a point for further discussion.
Life IS Feudal