I doubt anyone on the website will see anything substantial in the '2-4 weeks' they say they should have waited before starting the KS.
LoL at Brad thinking of his glory in the same vein as Stan Lee...
I pledged during the KS, as the idea sounded interesting to me, however over the course of 40 DAYS, I never saw more than ~4 of their supposed '10' veterans online posting or whatever. Even then it was a paragraph here, a landscape there. Are they really working on this, or what, I thought.
First time I have heard about this game. I like what I've seen and heard so far with it though.
Developers seems to be upfront and honest about expectations, past experiences in both success and failures, and seem to have a good general idea on what sort of game they would like to create.
I will probably end up throwing a couple dozen bucks at the development via their webpage a little later in the week.
Hope you get over it, and maybe he will make a game you will like, maybe he won't.
I don't hold studio/dev grudges, if someone makes a mmo I like, I will play it, they are so few and far between, I cannot afford to hold grudges and narrow my choices even more. I wouldn't buy anything from most well known studios if I did (EQ, SoE, etc...).
His 'vision' is a mmo I would like to play, if he can pull it off, everything else aside, I am all for it.
Also, people stuck on this $15 thing, I was interested in what they were talking about, went and looked and it seems a little steep, but you get to have live chats and bounce things off of the guys making the game, so if you can afford it, and you think your ideas need to be heard, go for it. I wouldn't do it, because I don't feel my ideas need to be heard more than the access any donation seems to afford me, if I were to give money to the site.
I pay around $350/mo. for my cable/cell phones bill, so mmo subs do not put me off (my cable/cell phone bill does, it is crazy, but haven't found a good alternative yet), and if I thought I needed to be heard by the devs, I could see wanting to do the $15 thing and have some say in design, maybe.
If I dislike a mmo, I don't care if my mom made it, I wouldn't play it or talk good about it, and I don't have blind faith in any developer, but I think Brad is as capable as anyone else of making the type of mmo that I like to play. EQ/VG are in my top 5, despite it's bad launch killing it.
I have a problem with the concept. The vision does not match the audience. Or should I say the size of the audience. For a game to be so focused on group mechanics how will this team combat content migration that happens when older players no long do the lower level content and new players are stuck trying to get things done with very limited support? Will they incorporate a DF tool? A reward system for vets to redo old content? All these things needed to be laid out during their first KS attempt.
I mean don't get me wrong, I love grouping.....when I can find a group. But it felt like he was trying to pull on the heartstrings of old EQ vets without offering solid answers to these fundamental questions. It's like me trying to get together a D&D session from a group I rolled with 20 years ago. It sounds cool in concept. But in all reality you have to have it all figured out before you go sending out an email blast. You cannot make this stuff up along the way. Especially when dealing with such a volatile group of gamers.
And even though I feel like a game like Pantheon was not for me (I didn't like EQ) I honestly thought the demand was out there from the EQ crowd. Well maybe it goes to show you that like the MMORPG genre, not all EQ players like all things EQ. Maybe it was a mixture of different features that resonated with the players. Anyway I hope it gets made anyway. And even though I'm not a strong fan of piecemeal mmorpg development, I do think that every type of player should have something they can play.
I do not think their KS is proof positive/negative of demand, Brad is a polarizing figure, I mean just read any thread about Pantheon. People paid money for VG, and a lot of them couldn't play it at launch, due to not having a high end computer. So they are pissed. I had a brand new high end computer, so I only pretty much had some stutter/lag when panning for the most part, so it didn't kill my enjoyment, if I didn't have that computer, I may of hated VG, instead of loving it? So even people that didn't play VG, see all the negativity and alligations of other behavior and probably get scared off. So I think Brad is not the best case study for demand, as someone else said, Jacobs got CU funded, and people were pissed at him too, and CU was way more niche than anything Brad was pushing.
So, I have still not donated now, but I would love to see someone talk Raph into joining a team and making a new mmo.
First time I have heard about this game. I like what I've seen and heard so far with it though.
Developers seems to be upfront and honest about expectations, past experiences in both success and failures, and seem to have a good general idea on what sort of game they would like to create.
I will probably end up throwing a couple dozen bucks at the development via their webpage a little later in the week.
Are you crazy?!?! You're not suppose to make sense on these forums? Do you know the lvl of flame that awaits you now?
Originally posted by itchmon i hope in the Podcast you asked something along the lines of "you are trying to charge people per month to access forums. This is money-grubbing bullcrap at its lowest, most snakelike level. please discuss"
The answer would be, no, you cynical non-self-informer.
A simple look at the website would show you a free join option.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Let me put this as delicately as I can. Brad, it's not the game concept that people rejected. It's you sitting at the helm and being responsible for the finances that go into making it that people rejected. You are a talented creative guy...no one trusts you as an executive manager.
There is a difference between being a CEO and a CCO, which he is the latter and not the former.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Let me put this as delicately as I can. Brad, it's not the game concept that people rejected. It's you sitting at the helm and being responsible for the finances that go into making it that people rejected. You are a talented creative guy...no one trusts you as an executive manager.
-Brad "Aradune Mithara" McQuaid
Chief Creative Officer, Visionary Realms, Inc.
January, 2014
Thumbs up for what I just pointed out to this person: that there is a difference between CEO and CCO.
The mmorpg genre has been thoroughly degenerated by greedy corporations. These darn companies only want to make money by getting stupid people addicted to stupid games for morons. In order to squelch competition, these evil corporations pay people to come onto these forums and incite hatred for anyone who has the temerity to develop a game which might be better than the junk produced by mainstream development studios.
Those who say that the failure of the Pantheon kickstarter proves that there isn't a market for Brad's vision are really just stating the obvious: most consumers are dumb enough to enjoy playing games that are designed for people with the IQ of a darn monkey.
How many of these Brad haters are going to spend money on ESO and Wildstar?
What in the world makes anyone think this motley crew can honestly deliver on what they are promising? Desperation? Like not wanting to go home from the bar alone so you bed the only thing available, the woofer?
I want a throwback mmo too but I don't want to piss away money for Vangaurd 2.0 with bad management, crappy communication and disappointment as features.
I like the idea of Pantheon- I really, really do. However, there is just not enough presentation available to me at the moment to even begin to think of paying for anything. I, personally, have never gufawed over concept art when games are unveiled. I need to see a snipit of it in pictures- maybe in motion with a video.
I fully support what these guys are doing, and I hope to see Pantheon develop further.
Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB "Im ready for All the comparisons I think its dumb and its embarrassing Im switching off No longer listening Ive had enough of persecution and conditioning Maybe its instinct- Were only animal" - Lily Allen, Sheezus
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Let me put this as delicately as I can. Brad, it's not the game concept that people rejected. It's you sitting at the helm and being responsible for the finances that go into making it that people rejected. You are a talented creative guy...no one trusts you as an executive manager.
-Brad "Aradune Mithara" McQuaid
Chief Creative Officer, Visionary Realms, Inc.
January, 2014
Thumbs up for what I just pointed out to this person: that there is a difference between CEO and CCO.
One of the features of being a CEO is the ability to fire anyone for cause. Do you really think that any CEO appointed would have the power to fire Brad? Would any CFO be able to over rule Brad on cost overruns?
Sorry, titles aside, this is Brad's project and he has less than stellar credentials in project management.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Let me put this as delicately as I can. Brad, it's not the game concept that people rejected. It's you sitting at the helm and being responsible for the finances that go into making it that people rejected. You are a talented creative guy...no one trusts you as an executive manager.
-Brad "Aradune Mithara" McQuaid
Chief Creative Officer, Visionary Realms, Inc.
January, 2014
Thumbs up for what I just pointed out to this person: that there is a difference between CEO and CCO.
One of the features of being a CEO is the ability to fire anyone for cause. Do you really think that any CEO appointed would have the power to fire Brad? Would any CFO be able to over rule Brad on cost overruns?
Sorry, titles aside, this is Brad's project and he has less than stellar credentials in project management.
A better question. Why would anyone ever trust this knucklehead ever again much less give him a job creating any form of computer game?
The sad reality for Brad is unlike other junk kickstarter operations,it sounds like both Brad and the industry demands that he has to work extra hard to sell his product.
This is probably true as well as expected but look around at other kick starters,they are to me a complete joke,i wouldn't give them a red penny.
I can also say this much,if i was to fund a game,it would be Brad's,if i was to have any hope for any of these games,it would be Brad's,i have ZERO confidence in these other kick starter games.
Ok now that i have set Brad above those other mickey mouse operations,i do not think he has the vision to make a game with the kind of depth i want and is because i have seen the way SOE operates and does game design and it is not advancing with time,it has remained stagnant.
Now could he recreate another EQ1?100% most definitely,after all it was his game lol.I believe he could recreate EQ1 but with a lot less assets but would also look better.But wait,didn't Vanguard already do this?Problem is there seems to be a lot of ,hmm idk the term to use but people tend to follow or support the status quo,the game that others are praising and what marketing has portrayed to be amazing.
I FULLY understand game design and like i said,i have zero confidence in these other kick starters,it is just that Brad does not have the acceptance of the marketing,media and advertising world.If i am not being perfectly clear,what i mean is if God himself declared Brad's game the best of all kick starters,the people would still not buy into it.
Bottom line is Brad will have to do it the hard way,he will unlike others have to actually put content out there for people to see and fully explain his game and vision and not with vague terms,again like everyone else is doing.He will have to work hard to sell his product.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Let me put this as delicately as I can. Brad, it's not the game concept that people rejected. It's you sitting at the helm and being responsible for the finances that go into making it that people rejected. You are a talented creative guy...no one trusts you as an executive manager.
-Brad "Aradune Mithara" McQuaid
Chief Creative Officer, Visionary Realms, Inc.
January, 2014
Thumbs up for what I just pointed out to this person: that there is a difference between CEO and CCO.
One of the features of being a CEO is the ability to fire anyone for cause. Do you really think that any CEO appointed would have the power to fire Brad? Would any CFO be able to over rule Brad on cost overruns?
Sorry, titles aside, this is Brad's project and he has less than stellar credentials in project management.
A better question. Why would anyone ever trust this knucklehead ever again much less give him a job creating any form of computer game?
Because some of us have really enjoyed the games he's helped create.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Let me put this as delicately as I can. Brad, it's not the game concept that people rejected. It's you sitting at the helm and being responsible for the finances that go into making it that people rejected. You are a talented creative guy...no one trusts you as an executive manager.
-Brad "Aradune Mithara" McQuaid
Chief Creative Officer, Visionary Realms, Inc.
January, 2014
Thumbs up for what I just pointed out to this person: that there is a difference between CEO and CCO.
One of the features of being a CEO is the ability to fire anyone for cause. Do you really think that any CEO appointed would have the power to fire Brad? Would any CFO be able to over rule Brad on cost overruns?
Sorry, titles aside, this is Brad's project and he has less than stellar credentials in project management.
A better question. Why would anyone ever trust this knucklehead ever again much less give him a job creating any form of computer game?
Because some of us have really enjoyed the games he's helped create.
Would I hire Brad to be the creative force behind a new game? Yes I would because of his past record in creativity.
Would I put Brad into any project management position? No I would not because of his past record in project management.
What role does he have in the Pantheon project? Well he owns the whole thing and I am afraid the recent Kick Starter just confirms my opinion that he should not be in charge of project management. So I will not be putting any of my cash into this project until I see it delivered.
“We approached this as MMO developers... We should have taken at least an extra two-to-four weeks and put together all of that [gameplay] information in a way that people expect to see it conveyed, and we should have then launched with everything up and available and viewable from the beginning.”
That didn't happen. Instead, they were “scrambling from day one” to make game details available to the public."
1st Vanguard's comedy of errors in development, now this right out of the gate on his next project?
Just can't seem to get behind this project even though it looks like it would be a great game.
Would I hire Brad to be the creative force behind a new game? Yes I would because of his past record in creativity.
Would I put Brad into any project management position? No I would not because of his past record in project management.
What role does he have in the Pantheon project? Well he owns the whole thing and I am afraid the recent Kick Starter just confirms my opinion that he should not be in charge of project management. So I will not be putting any of my cash into this project until I see it delivered.
Couldn't agree more. +1
He'll need to show me that he can pull this off for me to start trusting and maybe giving him my money.
Originally posted by unclemo MMORPG.COM is failing to be objective with it's articles related to Pantheon. There were serious mistakes with this Kickstarter regarding the poor presentation of their 'vision', the purposed game has nothing innovative to offer, and there's a number of people that simply don't trust Brad McQuaid.
Perhaps the target audience is not looking for "innovation", maybe they are looking for a return to the roots of the genre.
And, whether folks trust him or not, he has perhaps the clearest vision of how to base the future of MMO's on the great MMO's of the past.
As to this quote: "Pantheon is about bringing back the true essence of what MMOs were".How is this design have anything to do with what MMO's were? It is just an updated EQ.
Uh, isnt that exactly bringing back the true essence of how MMOs were?
I'm backing Pantheon. We need more choices in the genre. We need to put the challenge back into MMORPG. I'm so sick of themepark MMOs. I'd much rather play an old school niche MMORPG than a brony colored WoW clone.
Comments
Lot of softballs in that so-called interview, and not a tough question in the lot.
No follow-up questions about how/why the KS failed, and potentially violated KS terms, by wanting to use the money to "start a business"?
Nothing about no one else having the gall to charge $15/mo for a forum subscription?
I would say this was "bad games journalism" but there needs to be actual journalism for it to be bad.
This was a softcore marketing piece dressed up in a cheap suit.
I doubt anyone on the website will see anything substantial in the '2-4 weeks' they say they should have waited before starting the KS.
LoL at Brad thinking of his glory in the same vein as Stan Lee...
I pledged during the KS, as the idea sounded interesting to me, however over the course of 40 DAYS, I never saw more than ~4 of their supposed '10' veterans online posting or whatever. Even then it was a paragraph here, a landscape there. Are they really working on this, or what, I thought.
My whole feeling at this point is just .. MEH
First time I have heard about this game. I like what I've seen and heard so far with it though.
Developers seems to be upfront and honest about expectations, past experiences in both success and failures, and seem to have a good general idea on what sort of game they would like to create.
I will probably end up throwing a couple dozen bucks at the development via their webpage a little later in the week.
Hope you get over it, and maybe he will make a game you will like, maybe he won't.
I don't hold studio/dev grudges, if someone makes a mmo I like, I will play it, they are so few and far between, I cannot afford to hold grudges and narrow my choices even more. I wouldn't buy anything from most well known studios if I did (EQ, SoE, etc...).
His 'vision' is a mmo I would like to play, if he can pull it off, everything else aside, I am all for it.
Also, people stuck on this $15 thing, I was interested in what they were talking about, went and looked and it seems a little steep, but you get to have live chats and bounce things off of the guys making the game, so if you can afford it, and you think your ideas need to be heard, go for it. I wouldn't do it, because I don't feel my ideas need to be heard more than the access any donation seems to afford me, if I were to give money to the site.
I pay around $350/mo. for my cable/cell phones bill, so mmo subs do not put me off (my cable/cell phone bill does, it is crazy, but haven't found a good alternative yet), and if I thought I needed to be heard by the devs, I could see wanting to do the $15 thing and have some say in design, maybe.
If I dislike a mmo, I don't care if my mom made it, I wouldn't play it or talk good about it, and I don't have blind faith in any developer, but I think Brad is as capable as anyone else of making the type of mmo that I like to play. EQ/VG are in my top 5, despite it's bad launch killing it.
I do not think their KS is proof positive/negative of demand, Brad is a polarizing figure, I mean just read any thread about Pantheon. People paid money for VG, and a lot of them couldn't play it at launch, due to not having a high end computer. So they are pissed. I had a brand new high end computer, so I only pretty much had some stutter/lag when panning for the most part, so it didn't kill my enjoyment, if I didn't have that computer, I may of hated VG, instead of loving it? So even people that didn't play VG, see all the negativity and alligations of other behavior and probably get scared off. So I think Brad is not the best case study for demand, as someone else said, Jacobs got CU funded, and people were pissed at him too, and CU was way more niche than anything Brad was pushing.
So, I have still not donated now, but I would love to see someone talk Raph into joining a team and making a new mmo.
Are you crazy?!?! You're not suppose to make sense on these forums? Do you know the lvl of flame that awaits you now?
The answer would be, no, you cynical non-self-informer.
A simple look at the website would show you a free join option.
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
There is a difference between being a CEO and a CCO, which he is the latter and not the former.
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
Thumbs up for what I just pointed out to this person: that there is a difference between CEO and CCO.
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
What part of, "free", do people have a problem with?
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
Misquote and twist much?
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
The mmorpg genre has been thoroughly degenerated by greedy corporations. These darn companies only want to make money by getting stupid people addicted to stupid games for morons. In order to squelch competition, these evil corporations pay people to come onto these forums and incite hatred for anyone who has the temerity to develop a game which might be better than the junk produced by mainstream development studios.
Those who say that the failure of the Pantheon kickstarter proves that there isn't a market for Brad's vision are really just stating the obvious: most consumers are dumb enough to enjoy playing games that are designed for people with the IQ of a darn monkey.
How many of these Brad haters are going to spend money on ESO and Wildstar?
Vanguard = fail *could have been great*
Kickstarter: presentation, funding = fail
What in the world makes anyone think this motley crew can honestly deliver on what they are promising? Desperation? Like not wanting to go home from the bar alone so you bed the only thing available, the woofer?
I want a throwback mmo too but I don't want to piss away money for Vangaurd 2.0 with bad management, crappy communication and disappointment as features.
Actual post pertaining to the discussion:
I like the idea of Pantheon- I really, really do. However, there is just not enough presentation available to me at the moment to even begin to think of paying for anything. I, personally, have never gufawed over concept art when games are unveiled. I need to see a snipit of it in pictures- maybe in motion with a video.
I fully support what these guys are doing, and I hope to see Pantheon develop further.
Loves: SMITE, WildStar, Project Zomboid, PSO2, DCUO,
Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB
"Im ready for
All the comparisons
I think its dumb and its embarrassing
Im switching off
No longer listening
Ive had enough of persecution and conditioning
Maybe its instinct- Were only animal" - Lily Allen, Sheezus
One of the features of being a CEO is the ability to fire anyone for cause. Do you really think that any CEO appointed would have the power to fire Brad? Would any CFO be able to over rule Brad on cost overruns?
Sorry, titles aside, this is Brad's project and he has less than stellar credentials in project management.
A better question. Why would anyone ever trust this knucklehead ever again much less give him a job creating any form of computer game?
The sad reality for Brad is unlike other junk kickstarter operations,it sounds like both Brad and the industry demands that he has to work extra hard to sell his product.
This is probably true as well as expected but look around at other kick starters,they are to me a complete joke,i wouldn't give them a red penny.
I can also say this much,if i was to fund a game,it would be Brad's,if i was to have any hope for any of these games,it would be Brad's,i have ZERO confidence in these other kick starter games.
Ok now that i have set Brad above those other mickey mouse operations,i do not think he has the vision to make a game with the kind of depth i want and is because i have seen the way SOE operates and does game design and it is not advancing with time,it has remained stagnant.
Now could he recreate another EQ1?100% most definitely,after all it was his game lol.I believe he could recreate EQ1 but with a lot less assets but would also look better.But wait,didn't Vanguard already do this?Problem is there seems to be a lot of ,hmm idk the term to use but people tend to follow or support the status quo,the game that others are praising and what marketing has portrayed to be amazing.
I FULLY understand game design and like i said,i have zero confidence in these other kick starters,it is just that Brad does not have the acceptance of the marketing,media and advertising world.If i am not being perfectly clear,what i mean is if God himself declared Brad's game the best of all kick starters,the people would still not buy into it.
Bottom line is Brad will have to do it the hard way,he will unlike others have to actually put content out there for people to see and fully explain his game and vision and not with vague terms,again like everyone else is doing.He will have to work hard to sell his product.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Because some of us have really enjoyed the games he's helped create.
Would I hire Brad to be the creative force behind a new game? Yes I would because of his past record in creativity.
Would I put Brad into any project management position? No I would not because of his past record in project management.
What role does he have in the Pantheon project? Well he owns the whole thing and I am afraid the recent Kick Starter just confirms my opinion that he should not be in charge of project management. So I will not be putting any of my cash into this project until I see it delivered.
“We approached this as MMO developers... We should have taken at least an extra two-to-four weeks and put together all of that [gameplay] information in a way that people expect to see it conveyed, and we should have then launched with everything up and available and viewable from the beginning.”
That didn't happen. Instead, they were “scrambling from day one” to make game details available to the public."
1st Vanguard's comedy of errors in development, now this right out of the gate on his next project?
Just can't seem to get behind this project even though it looks like it would be a great game.
Couldn't agree more. +1
He'll need to show me that he can pull this off for me to start trusting and maybe giving him my money.
Screw Kickstarter!
Brad should take his business plan to "Dragons Den" or "Shark Tank"
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Perhaps the target audience is not looking for "innovation", maybe they are looking for a return to the roots of the genre.
And, whether folks trust him or not, he has perhaps the clearest vision of how to base the future of MMO's on the great MMO's of the past.
Uh, isnt that exactly bringing back the true essence of how MMOs were?