I just wish dungeons were a little more rewarding although they are fun.
Yes. I completely agree and hope you give feedback, as I intend to as well.
Perhaps a diminishing returns on them per 24 hours or week to keep it from being farmed too heavily. But as it is now, there is little incentive for people to run dungeons while leveling more than once. And that I see as a big problem.
edit-
Also the unlocking chests in a PuG sounds like it's a big issue as well. I've only ran it with friends, but others have told me the horror stories. :- /
I dont think that there should be diminishing returns for dungeon grinding. I just think that the xp for either dungeon crawling/questing and PVP should be somewhat equal.
You shouldnt restrict how a character intends to level. Im not saying I want to level really fast I just see that PVE questing in AvA is more rewarding at the moment.
My flatmate was level 12 and jumped to level 14 in 30 mins and I was like ' How did you do that ?! I want in !'. If something is going to give me levels/skillpoints and crafting supplies as well as gold easier than something else why would I bother?
XP for different activities has been adjusted every new patch, and will continue to be adjusted post-launch - just like in all MMOs.
People will always figure out ways to "game the game"... it's like a separate hobby for some. Then they typically post on the forums, the developers read it, they check it out and adjust... it's the eternal cycle of XP or gold rewards tweaking.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by jigo86 question isent how to get max lvl as fast as possible it is how it makes the most fun
Its not really about getting to level 50 quickly I don't mind leveling slow.
In the beta I saw a lot of players complaining about not having a horse. 100g horses were available for those that pre-ordered the Imperial Edition whilst everyone else needed 17k gold. There were many players crying out that they will never afford that. The questing in AvA got me a horse in a day.
Do you think that these players that want to level via questing and dungeon crawling should be poor ?
There are quite a few quests between 1 to 15 that give less experience then what you would get for just exploring and don't give skill points. Bal Foyen is a huge offender of this where every quest except the main quest gives 64 experience per which is almost nothing by the time you get to that.
I was quite frankly shocked when I realized for the 3rd time (3 characters) that by lvl 7 and 8 I had been playing the characters for 4 or 5 hours each (or more).
Also I should point out that I was HAPPY with the progress. Which shocked me even more.
In the past, while I wanted to love games, I wanted to grind them out and get through them thinking happiness (contentment?) was at the end of the road. With ESO, I am about 90% sure (after 4 betas) that for the 1st time in a LONG time (since my 1st MMO back in 1993-94) that contentment is going to be the PROCESS of getting to the end of the road much more so than the actual end.
I was quite frankly shocked when I realized for the 3rd time (3 characters) that by lvl 7 and 8 I had been playing the characters for 4 or 5 hours each (or more).
Also I should point out that I was HAPPY with the progress. Which shocked me even more.
In the past, while I wanted to love games, I wanted to grind them out and get through them thinking happiness (contentment?) was at the end of the road. With ESO, I am about 90% sure (after 4 betas) that for the 1st time in a LONG time (since my 1st MMO back in 1993-94) that contentment is going to be the PROCESS of getting to the end of the road much more so than the actual end.
Truly surprised.
Good assessment. It also surprised me the first time I played.
There is so much advancement happening between levels that it feels very satisfying without actually dinging. You have skill points gained through skyshards, quest rewards, dungeon completion and even some named elite mobs in the open dungeons. And using those skill points with all the choices available makes that a good thinking-man's character development experience. Then there is the advancement of individual abilities and weapon skills that get incrementally more powerful.
In short, you get the "leveling reward" reinforcement without needing to wait for the next level. It's a great system that makes "growing" your character feel like a more continuous process... instead of it coming in the standard ever-increasing time gaps most other MMOs use.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The levels do not need to come that fast but there should be an adjustment to the leveling curves from PVP to PVE. Either the PVE quests in AvA need to be lowered or the dungeons need to give a little bit more than 300xp a run.
Although if a friend of mine is out of level range of me and I want to play together I could always jump in AvA and catch up.
Im not saying we need to be power leveled im just showing that there is a massive difference in how to level.
Questing xp seemed quite low for the amount of running around I had to do and by the time I completed a quest to get not much gold or xp I could have used my time better grinding mobs or AvAvA.
I find that to be the case with all games. It's all transit and as time sinks go it's one of the bigger ones. I think what makes ESO different is it has actual options. Most quest hub grinders don't.
The levels do not need to come that fast but there should be an adjustment to the leveling curves from PVP to PVE. Either the PVE quests in AvA need to be lowered or the dungeons need to give a little bit more than 300xp a run.
Although if a friend of mine is out of level range of me and I want to play together I could always jump in AvA and catch up.
Im not saying we need to be power leveled im just showing that there is a massive difference in how to level.
In all honestly.. the pve quests in the AvA zones should be rewarded more. Because you will have a hard time doing those quests, because you will get constantly ganked. Now in beta not a lot player knowing about those quest spots or don't care and you can do those more or less undisturbed, but come release those spots will be hot spots for pvp, especially small groups, stealth ganking and so forth.. so don't expect to get lvl and money fast there without constanlty fighting against players.
But nevertheless there will always tweaking how many xp and gold you get from different sources.
I was quite frankly shocked when I realized for the 3rd time (3 characters) that by lvl 7 and 8 I had been playing the characters for 4 or 5 hours each (or more).
Also I should point out that I was HAPPY with the progress. Which shocked me even more.
In the past, while I wanted to love games, I wanted to grind them out and get through them thinking happiness (contentment?) was at the end of the road. With ESO, I am about 90% sure (after 4 betas) that for the 1st time in a LONG time (since my 1st MMO back in 1993-94) that contentment is going to be the PROCESS of getting to the end of the road much more so than the actual end.
Truly surprised.
They made a compelling low level game. Instead of one exp bar you've got 5 or 6 going and all of them are impactful.
I would love if they removed exp from every thing but mobs. They wont do that but i would love it and as for pvp i don't intend to do any but i probably will get dragged into it by my friends.
I also was very surprised that after 6 or 7 hours playing i was only level 7 on one of my chars and i felt that i had achieved a lot and was very happy with my progress.
I did get some of my other chars much higher by doing quests but i had way more fun on my level 7 char and all the different things i tryed out.
XP for different activities has been adjusted every new patch, and will continue to be adjusted post-launch - just like in all MMOs.
People will always figure out ways to "game the game"... it's like a separate hobby for some. Then they typically post on the forums, the developers read it, they check it out and adjust... it's the eternal cycle of XP or gold rewards tweaking.
Agree 100%
MMOs are always in the middle of class balancing and tidying up loopholes in levelling or gold-earning. It's not surprising to hear this at all. If you're #1 goal is to progress to the max level the fastest then there will always be a way to do that. You end up bypassing any meaningful content along the way, but if that's what you're looking to do there will likely always be a way to do it. The whole formula for that could be reversed by tomorrow, but something will still be there.
With regards to the xp gain differences and leveling I am a little worried about being able to play with friends. If I spend a few hours dungeon crawling and my friend spends a few hours PVPing and they outlevel me quicker I may no longer be able to group with them.
Although PVP does scale everyone to 50 so that will always allow players to group together. I am not sure if there was an xp penalty for grouping with players that were more than 3 levels higher because I only grouped with players around my level.
I did however see level 21s group with level 10s and take them through the Fungal Grotto but didnt get a chance to ask if they were gimping the xp gain or not.
Yeah one of the few things I did like about ESO was the slightly slower leveling. Hopefully more games start going that path. The game doesn't start at end game, in fact most games tend to just get boring at end game.
I managed to make enough gold for a horse in one day from PVP. I just think its odd that it levels you much faster than the other ways. I would rather be doing PVE but since I can do the PVE quests in PVP I will do that instead since it makes me rich and levels my skills the fastest.
Also I forgot to mention when I was in PVP leveling and making gold I never joined a raid, never defended a castle or attacked a player. I just ran around solo killing the NPCs for the quests.
never saw a PvE quest in Cyrodill
Only the tutorial quest, and the 4 quests with PvP goals at our homekeep..
And when i did fight some PvE mob, the fight took over a minute, i had the mob down to 1/4th of health.... and suddenly there where arrows in my back... was sighted by two ennemy players and i died quickly
So do the PvE quests in Cyrodill work the same way as the PvE quests in PvE lands.... find a random questgiver with a black arrow and finish the task?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The obvious design of the game is to pve to vr10 creating a full char and to then use it in pvp. The lvl 10 intro to Cyrodiil is to allow for down time when your pve partners are not online.
There are pve quest in Cyrodiil that are for lvl 50 or less. I think these are gap fillers for high lvl 40's to reach 50.
I managed to make enough gold for a horse in one day from PVP. I just think its odd that it levels you much faster than the other ways. I would rather be doing PVE but since I can do the PVE quests in PVP I will do that instead since it makes me rich and levels my skills the fastest.
Also I forgot to mention when I was in PVP leveling and making gold I never joined a raid, never defended a castle or attacked a player. I just ran around solo killing the NPCs for the quests.
never saw a PvE quest in Cyrodill
Only the tutorial quest, and the 4 quests with PvP goals at our homekeep..
And when i did fight some PvE mob, the fight took over a minute, i had the mob down to 1/4th of health.... and suddenly there where arrows in my back... was sighted by two ennemy players and i died quickly
So do the PvE quests in Cyrodill work the same way as the PvE quests in PvE lands.... find a random questgiver with a black arrow and finish the task?
Yeah the PVE quests in AvA were pretty straight forward. One of the quests was kill 1 mob, one was run 50m and open a chest and return. There were only 2 NPCs but they each offered random simple fetch and kill quests.
Originally posted by bcbully Cyrodiill is #1 in ESO. It's the most important thing.
Warhammer Online was never a very popular game, but it had a decent following when they put effort into the PvE game along with the PvP. When they changed it so that PvE was highly unrewarding in order to push people into the PvP lakes, the game began its spiral into shut down.
Originally posted by bcbully Cyrodiill is #1 in ESO. It's the most important thing.
Warhammer Online was never a very popular game, but it had a decent following when they put effort into the PvE game along with the PvP. When they changed it so that PvE was highly unrewarding in order to push people into the PvP lakes, the game began its spiral into shut down.
PvE is far from unrewarding. PvP and PvE seems to be on par here in ESO, where as in other mmorpgs pve was ahead.
After leveling several new characters this weekend to level 12 I have noticed that some choices on how to level are extremely faster than others.
This is how I found from personal experience to gain xp easily.
AvAvA > Solo grinding mobs > Questing > Dungeons.
AvAvA was without a doubt the fastest way to level and make a lot of gold on the side. I found a little repeatable questing hub and gave just short of 200g per quest and a decent amount of xp. These repeatable quests only took about 1 minute to complete.
Solo Grinding mobs was ok, I would just find a small circuit and run around and kill mobs one after the other that were 1 level higher than myself. (Did I mention that I was a healer ?) This was slower as it took about 30 -40 mins per level 10+.
Questing xp seemed quite low for the amount of running around I had to do and by the time I completed a quest to get not much gold or xp I could have used my time better grinding mobs or AvAvA.
Dungeons is my favourite way to level in any game. The xp from dungeon crawling was almost non existant compared to all the other ways of getting xp. Even though this was the slowest way I still did many back to back dungeons as I found it extremely fun.
I hope this gets looked at as I think all paths that players choose to level should be equal. But I can tell you that I will be going straight to AvAvA at launch to make as much gold and as many levels as I can.
I got (and I think this is what your intent is)
Questing in Cyrodil > Solo grinding mobs > Questing > Dungeons > AvAvA (PvP)?.
I managed to make enough gold for a horse in one day from PVP. I just think its odd that it levels you much faster than the other ways. I would rather be doing PVE but since I can do the PVE quests in PVP I will do that instead since it makes me rich and levels my skills the fastest.
Also I forgot to mention when I was in PVP leveling and making gold I never joined a raid, never defended a castle or attacked a player. I just ran around solo killing the NPCs for the quests.
never saw a PvE quest in Cyrodill
Only the tutorial quest, and the 4 quests with PvP goals at our homekeep..
And when i did fight some PvE mob, the fight took over a minute, i had the mob down to 1/4th of health.... and suddenly there where arrows in my back... was sighted by two ennemy players and i died quickly
So do the PvE quests in Cyrodill work the same way as the PvE quests in PvE lands.... find a random questgiver with a black arrow and finish the task?
No there are repeatable quests in Cyrodiil. Many of them with very short turnaround times and they give large chunks of experience. Go away from the keeps and into the villages and you will find them.
The two best ones I found were to:
1) Kill a single mob about 30 m away from the quest giver.
2) Poison 3 bits of food in the same area.
You could just keep repeating them, each would give about 10% of an XP bar, and didn't seem to diminish as I levelled (since Cyrodiil XP scales with your level).
The NPCs rotated 3-4 quests each, some slightly farther away, but you could just delete and grab again until you got the one you wanted.
Comments
I dont think that there should be diminishing returns for dungeon grinding. I just think that the xp for either dungeon crawling/questing and PVP should be somewhat equal.
You shouldnt restrict how a character intends to level. Im not saying I want to level really fast I just see that PVE questing in AvA is more rewarding at the moment.
My flatmate was level 12 and jumped to level 14 in 30 mins and I was like ' How did you do that ?! I want in !'. If something is going to give me levels/skillpoints and crafting supplies as well as gold easier than something else why would I bother?
XP for different activities has been adjusted every new patch, and will continue to be adjusted post-launch - just like in all MMOs.
People will always figure out ways to "game the game"... it's like a separate hobby for some. Then they typically post on the forums, the developers read it, they check it out and adjust... it's the eternal cycle of XP or gold rewards tweaking.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Its not really about getting to level 50 quickly I don't mind leveling slow.
In the beta I saw a lot of players complaining about not having a horse. 100g horses were available for those that pre-ordered the Imperial Edition whilst everyone else needed 17k gold. There were many players crying out that they will never afford that. The questing in AvA got me a horse in a day.
Do you think that these players that want to level via questing and dungeon crawling should be poor ?
I was quite frankly shocked when I realized for the 3rd time (3 characters) that by lvl 7 and 8 I had been playing the characters for 4 or 5 hours each (or more).
Also I should point out that I was HAPPY with the progress. Which shocked me even more.
In the past, while I wanted to love games, I wanted to grind them out and get through them thinking happiness (contentment?) was at the end of the road. With ESO, I am about 90% sure (after 4 betas) that for the 1st time in a LONG time (since my 1st MMO back in 1993-94) that contentment is going to be the PROCESS of getting to the end of the road much more so than the actual end.
Truly surprised.
Good assessment. It also surprised me the first time I played.
There is so much advancement happening between levels that it feels very satisfying without actually dinging. You have skill points gained through skyshards, quest rewards, dungeon completion and even some named elite mobs in the open dungeons. And using those skill points with all the choices available makes that a good thinking-man's character development experience. Then there is the advancement of individual abilities and weapon skills that get incrementally more powerful.
In short, you get the "leveling reward" reinforcement without needing to wait for the next level. It's a great system that makes "growing" your character feel like a more continuous process... instead of it coming in the standard ever-increasing time gaps most other MMOs use.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The levels do not need to come that fast but there should be an adjustment to the leveling curves from PVP to PVE. Either the PVE quests in AvA need to be lowered or the dungeons need to give a little bit more than 300xp a run.
Although if a friend of mine is out of level range of me and I want to play together I could always jump in AvA and catch up.
Im not saying we need to be power leveled im just showing that there is a massive difference in how to level.
I find that to be the case with all games. It's all transit and as time sinks go it's one of the bigger ones. I think what makes ESO different is it has actual options. Most quest hub grinders don't.
In all honestly.. the pve quests in the AvA zones should be rewarded more. Because you will have a hard time doing those quests, because you will get constantly ganked. Now in beta not a lot player knowing about those quest spots or don't care and you can do those more or less undisturbed, but come release those spots will be hot spots for pvp, especially small groups, stealth ganking and so forth.. so don't expect to get lvl and money fast there without constanlty fighting against players.
But nevertheless there will always tweaking how many xp and gold you get from different sources.
They made a compelling low level game. Instead of one exp bar you've got 5 or 6 going and all of them are impactful.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
I would love if they removed exp from every thing but mobs. They wont do that but i would love it and as for pvp i don't intend to do any but i probably will get dragged into it by my friends.
I also was very surprised that after 6 or 7 hours playing i was only level 7 on one of my chars and i felt that i had achieved a lot and was very happy with my progress.
I did get some of my other chars much higher by doing quests but i had way more fun on my level 7 char and all the different things i tryed out.
Agree 100%
MMOs are always in the middle of class balancing and tidying up loopholes in levelling or gold-earning. It's not surprising to hear this at all. If you're #1 goal is to progress to the max level the fastest then there will always be a way to do that. You end up bypassing any meaningful content along the way, but if that's what you're looking to do there will likely always be a way to do it. The whole formula for that could be reversed by tomorrow, but something will still be there.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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With regards to the xp gain differences and leveling I am a little worried about being able to play with friends. If I spend a few hours dungeon crawling and my friend spends a few hours PVPing and they outlevel me quicker I may no longer be able to group with them.
Although PVP does scale everyone to 50 so that will always allow players to group together. I am not sure if there was an xp penalty for grouping with players that were more than 3 levels higher because I only grouped with players around my level.
I did however see level 21s group with level 10s and take them through the Fungal Grotto but didnt get a chance to ask if they were gimping the xp gain or not.
Does anyone know ?
Yeah one of the few things I did like about ESO was the slightly slower leveling. Hopefully more games start going that path. The game doesn't start at end game, in fact most games tend to just get boring at end game.
ESO endgame is just about getting more skillpoints until you have maxed everything. Also raising your valor rank to get access to premium gear.
never saw a PvE quest in Cyrodill
Only the tutorial quest, and the 4 quests with PvP goals at our homekeep..
And when i did fight some PvE mob, the fight took over a minute, i had the mob down to 1/4th of health.... and suddenly there where arrows in my back... was sighted by two ennemy players and i died quickly
So do the PvE quests in Cyrodill work the same way as the PvE quests in PvE lands.... find a random questgiver with a black arrow and finish the task?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The obvious design of the game is to pve to vr10 creating a full char and to then use it in pvp. The lvl 10 intro to Cyrodiil is to allow for down time when your pve partners are not online.
There are pve quest in Cyrodiil that are for lvl 50 or less. I think these are gap fillers for high lvl 40's to reach 50.
Yeah the PVE quests in AvA were pretty straight forward. One of the quests was kill 1 mob, one was run 50m and open a chest and return. There were only 2 NPCs but they each offered random simple fetch and kill quests.
None of the quests were PVP related.
Warhammer Online was never a very popular game, but it had a decent following when they put effort into the PvE game along with the PvP. When they changed it so that PvE was highly unrewarding in order to push people into the PvP lakes, the game began its spiral into shut down.
PvE is far from unrewarding. PvP and PvE seems to be on par here in ESO, where as in other mmorpgs pve was ahead.
I got (and I think this is what your intent is)
Questing in Cyrodil > Solo grinding mobs > Questing > Dungeons > AvAvA (PvP)?.
Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
Palazious 75 wizard EQ
Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15
No there are repeatable quests in Cyrodiil. Many of them with very short turnaround times and they give large chunks of experience. Go away from the keeps and into the villages and you will find them.
The two best ones I found were to:
1) Kill a single mob about 30 m away from the quest giver.
2) Poison 3 bits of food in the same area.
You could just keep repeating them, each would give about 10% of an XP bar, and didn't seem to diminish as I levelled (since Cyrodiil XP scales with your level).
The NPCs rotated 3-4 quests each, some slightly farther away, but you could just delete and grab again until you got the one you wanted.
My 2 cents:
I don't want to level fast
I like the fact there is AvA...pve....crafting
now all they need is non instanced housing that allows you to build a great home furnished by craft-able furniture/decorations.