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So much for the argument that all F2P games are p2w or not actually free
nariusseldon
Member EpicPosts: 27,775
"There are no gates or delay mechanisms, and no pay-to-win mechanics. All microtransaction items are purely cosmetic -- a style that's often said not to play well with Western gamers despite its popularity in Asia."
"Players can buy time-limited supporter packs that contain credit for microtransaction purchases as well special perks. For example, the Warrior Pack (on sale now for $120 on the game's site) includes exclusive cosmetic in-game items as well as a digital soundtrack and a special title on the game's forums."
And they capture the whales without p2w ...
"He speaks of a time-limited kiwi pet that cost $1,000 and "became such a status symbol" that it sold out quickly"
.... the bottomline ... another free game that I can enjoy.
Comments
Give credit where credit is due
Yes Nari:
Path of Exile is a wonderful example of F2P done right.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
A few things:
1) POE is not an mmo, though it does seem to have a non-bullshitty f2p system.
2) What will happen to POE's system if the game begins to struggle?
3) As for the argument that f2p games are like welfare, sorta... in the POE system if they can sustain themselves on 100% cosmetic stuff, great. I see no problem with POE being f2p. One of the problems MMOs have is lack of population. if you like a game and want more people to play, you can become a "whale" and fund the game bringing all the people that won't spend a cent to the game so you can show off your shineys.. and so the world is not inhabited by a small number of people.
People who don't pay in a f2p game are still a useful commodity to both the devs and the "whales"... in this sense, f2p is unlike welfare. sure if everyone didn't pay the game will die. If you like a game you should buy stuff from it to encourage it to stick around, but a straight up statement that people who like f2p are bad and like leeches is just false, they are a necessary part of the f2p system - population filler to make the world seem more alive and people who don't have the shiny stuff whales buy. If everyone had all the shiny stuff, it would devalue it making people not want to purchase that stuff.
4) F2P is, in my eyes, a shitty payment model. it encourages devs to spend their development time on creating better shit to sell on the cash shop instead of making the game better. Assuming a limited amount of available dev time, I would like as much as possible to go to making the game a place I want to play in and stay in.... not making some cool new shit to sell me. This has nothing to do with p2w, though I do think f2p games tend to start out non- p2w and as the game needs to show more profits, switch to variations of p2w.
I wish PoE the best but it's still in it's honeymoon period. Lets see how it still fairs in a year or two.
Watching F2P "evolve" in western markets has made me believe that it only works long term if you create a arms race of credit limits among your player base and sooner or later that means P2W. if PoE can pull it off without going that route hey great more power to them but I think they have a hard road ahead of them long term.
I don't know the game. How long has this monetization system been in effect and how well is it working out for them?
edit: typo
A question that can be asked about other payment models (P2P, B2P, ...), and to which the answer has been in my experience: the will do the same as F2P.
Now, I suppose the likelihood for a F2P game to struggle as opposed to P2P/B2P is debatable (some people say F2P makes more money, some less).
If for someone money is a barrier to entry, then P2W is better than P2P any day.
Aside from this, I personally don't think the time spent in creating "monetisable items" is really that huge, then of course it depends on the exact focus of the studio.
In the case of PoE they just released a new act or expansion pack if I am not mistaken - in 4 months... so this seems to indicate that in this particular instance you are wrong.
I'm not sure about the OP, but I take pride in things that actually matter. I don't sink a whole lot of pride or self-worth into the way I pay for a damned video game. I don't feel good about myself or my choices because I pay a subscription fee. I don't feel anything because it's completely inconsequential. If the game is fun, then all is well.
Ha ha, you guys aren't the only ones who can identify the OP by his thread titles.
Frankly, after all of this time and all of these painfully repetitive bait threads, it's to the point where this is now cringeworthy. I kind of feel bad for the guy. If this is what you call entertaining/fun.....
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
"An it harm none, do what thou wilt"
Well, the bait is only effective if someone bites.
I seldom agree with his stance but admire the dedication with which he brings this kind of drama.
If more people were actually like he claims he is, then games wouldn't be made with the whales in mind. As 'welfare-ish' as he portrays himself, those that prefer P2P should encourage more ppl to be more like him instead of keeping at arms length.
The barrier between a p2p going f2p then going p2w is much higher than just a f2p beginning to include p2w options in the cash shop. also omg acronyms.
If you think studio's are not spending a lot of their time figuring out and designing ways to make more money, I think you're wrong :-) As for PoE releasing their xpac in 4 months.... that does nothing to invalidate my point... as a side note they were in "Open beta" and taking money for a long time before "release". Simply put, without insider knowledge of the studio, there's no way to know if they would have had this expansion ready months ago or months from now with a p2p or b2p model. If they had launched p2p/b2p when they started taking money and not wiping characters, maybe we would have had this expansion 4 months ago instead of an "official" launch. Hyperbole of course, but you see what I mean I hope.
I love how people think that pointing out ONE example of something (in this case not even a friggin MMO) and acting like that somehow dismantles an entire argument.
Thats like saying you found 1 retarded lion that for some reason won't pounce on a wounded gazelle when its hungry, and trying to portray that as evidence that gazelle's should stop being afraid and or weary of lions. Because obviously, that argument is shot to hell.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Uhm, in 4 months? Try in almost a year and a half. Clearly you havent played PoE. They've been stringing people along with "content" patches that basically consist of 2-3 new unique items, a couple new skill gems, and a couple new skins for abilities, etc.
The game has 3 acts, those are the same 3 acts that have been there since release. Well, technically the third act was about 60% complete, and they did finish off the rest of the third act about 8 months after release. Now, they're finally adding PART of the 4th act. PART. Not all. Look, the game is definitely a better example of a F2P model game, for sure. But its still strong evidence of why F2P games are unsustainable. They can't add content fast enough. Period. The only way for them to stay afloat is to spend development time on cash shop items, which is development time NOT spent on the actual game.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I'm curious how you know PoE isn't sustainable. The developers said that the micro-transactions are enough to run the company. Guess that throws a wrench in the whole unsustainable thing. They can't add content fast enough for who exactly?
I believe he was suggesting that they have not added enough content to keep him interested in the game. I played poe a long time ago and grew bored with the lack of stuff to do. To me their content pace, or just game model, does not keep my interest. It does keep quite a number of people entertained, though, so a generalized unsustainable label isn't warranted here. Really, a games sustainability won't be known until it's been around a long long time, or dies. til then it's just speculation based on personal experience.
Just food for thought, if there were more varied content in PoE they wouldn't need to add new content as quickly (more randomization). the F2P vs P2P model doesn't make too much sense when talking about PoE really since PoE is not churning out content for the mmo masses to devour... it's not a MMO and as such doesn't have the server/content overhead that mmo's come with.
Ding ding ding ding. Exactly. While some people may be content with rolling 8 different characters and playing through the same 3 acts fifty three times, i am not. I got a character to level 83, got sick of doing the ridiculous grind needed for even the slightest upgrade in gear. Which involved grinding maps that were useless to you, just so you could hope to get a higher level map that *might* be useful to you. Just to end up not being able to complete said map because end boss in said map has a bug where its 1 shotting anybody who gets near it. Etc.
It really is a good game OVERALL, but their end game is terrible. Adding the 4th act is definitely a move in the right direction, but, like usual, they're adding about 1 hours worth of new content, and we wont see the rest of act 4 for likely 4-6 more months.
Meanwhile we've got plenty of new skins for spell abilities. Or stupid new pets. Plenty of those.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
So....if I play the game and decide to purchase something in the game....am I playing for free? What am I paying for when I make such a purchase? Is it just the cost of making that item? Or, am I also paying for someone else who FAILS TO PAY so that they get the benefits ON MY DIME?
You see, if you are honest about it, you aren't playing for free. SOMEONE is paying for you to play.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Yep, there is no free lunch.
With that being said, I have no problem with free to play games. If they allow someone to have fun without having to pay themselves, that's all well and good.
So what if they're not contributing any money to the game? So what if the devs only put in more cosmetic fluff in between actual content patches? Guess what, if you don't like the game, you don't have to play (a novel concept it seems on these forums) and you certainly don't have to pay.
Their mini-expansion releases today.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/807869
I have no idea what this stuff is, but this is what is included.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Cool.. now there are actually 2 real F2P games.. Path of Exile and DoTA2. 2 out of a few thousands aint that bad...
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Though i tend to agree with you, one thing to keep in mind is there are a decent amount of people out there to whom $120 is chump change. I'm not gonna lie, if i was some executive making 500 or 600k/yr i probably wouldnt scoff at paying $120 for stuff in a game. Admittedly for a single cosmetic item is still a stretch, but i could see it happening.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche