for the best interest of the game: instead of 4 weeks i rather more works put into it. so for me 8-10 weeks from now would be ideal. the game would be more ready.
for the best interest of myself: 4 weeks 8 weeks 12 weeks no problem. just not half a year late as i ve already bought the game.
Originally posted by Natjur I want to petition for the reverse. I think the game needs another month or two of beta testing and bug fixes before release
This has been said again and again, but what we are playing isn't the actual current beta build. It's an old broken build that they haven't bothered to fix because: why the hell should they? These weekend invites for stress tests are just to test the servers under the load of thousands of players.
The most current version of the game is a separate closed beta where people have 24/7 access and can play to 50+ content.
Also, I'm not sure if people are aware, but some quests in the weekend version just end abruptly on purpose. This is because they don't want you going any further, not because it's bugged.
Please give me a link or something confirming your claims here, PLEASE. I'm not trying to start trouble, I want this game bad, but my experience with this past beta that ended yesterday was horrible. The thing that pissed me off the most was the fact that all the bugs I reported in February were still present this past weekend. So this would explain 100% why nothing was fixed, I was so worried with early access less than a month away and it had such glaring problems. So what you're saying would explain everything, but I want an actual official post from Zenimax and not fan speculation. Even though I love the game, the amount of problems I encountered this weekend made me consider cancelling my retail Imperial Edition pre-order, that's how bad it was, so I need my confidence in the game bolstered back to normal.
^There you go, you can watch people streaming the private test server live, (it's the full game, no level cap).
I posted this in another ESO thread too, sorry for the redundancy.
Don't get me wrong, there will be bugs at release, but the current PTS version is not anywhere near the level of brokenness that the weekend beta version is.
"Hey Bob should we use the latest build with no bugs for the weekend beta."
"Nah - we need the bad publicity."
Companies don't need to run betas; they do need to release bug free games.
And before someone says: not possible sorry it is. software these days is a part of everyday life and the techniques are well developed.
We expect car and aircraft manufacturers, powergrid controllers, TVs, operating systems, stock control software - all sorts of software stuff to work. Doesn't always - but we expect it to. And when it doesn't we push back. Why should game companies be given "special dispensation".
Blizzard should not be put on a pedestal for saying "it will release when its ready" - and no that doesn't mean Blizzard games don't have bugs. It is all about the culture; the aim should be zero tolerance. And then bugs that might slip through - it happens - are likely to be obscure and uncommon - not things that impact lots and lots of people.
And less than 4 weeks out from launch ESO just doesn't look ready.
Well to be fair Skyrim is probably the buggiest PC game I've ever played so I guess this is up to the same quality but this game is buggy as heck. Like 1 in 5 quests were bugged during this last beta weekend.
Originally posted by Massive9 Originally posted by Ender4Well to be fair Skyrim is probably the buggiest PC game I've ever played so I guess this is up to the same quality but this game is buggy as heck. Like 1 in 5 quests were bugged during this last beta weekend.
Whilst I have always loved their single player RPGs, to be fair, anything with the name Zenimax or Bethesda attached to it is going to be the most bug ridden mess you have ever played. Both companies are infamous for it.
It is a testament to the quality of their actual games that they can release so buggy and still be so beloved though.
As much as I want the game to be out RIGHT NAOO!!!!!, I want it done right. I want them to fix what needs fixing, to polish, to actually implement and test adventure zones (potentially even having raid content). I want them to test the Imperial City, add in a DF-type dungeon if possible (though I would be fine w/ waiting a few months for that to be added later).
Skill-balancing, lag, etc.
The game is a ton of fun, but it's far from flawless. Fix the bugs, test the game in it's entirely, don't rush it. We've had far too many games do that and blow up as a result. (And not in the good way)
While I appreciate the enthusiasm, the game is far from ready and already releasing too soon IMO. It's only 4 more weeks anyway(preorder). All the quest bugs are frustrating. Not to mention getting stuck in NPC conversations and at crafting tables. /reloadui was the theme of the weekend.
Several bugs just while playing on the starter islands. Had to use /stuck several times. Conversations would bug and keep me in conversation-mode with no possible exit other than /stuck which killed me. Animations aren't my cup of tea but I suppose you can't call them bugs..
The game could use some extra time fixing.. I remind you of the many games released with unfinished content, game breaking bugs etc... Don't let your impatience cloud your judgement! The current build is riddled with bugs. I hope the newest build will solve some of these.
Originally posted by Ender4Well to be fair Skyrim is probably the buggiest PC game I've ever played so I guess this is up to the same quality but this game is buggy as heck. Like 1 in 5 quests were bugged during this last beta weekend.
Whilst I have always loved their single player RPGs, to be fair, anything with the name Zenimax or Bethesda attached to it is going to be the most bug ridden mess you have ever played. Both companies are infamous for it.
It is a testament to the quality of their actual games that they can release so buggy and still be so beloved though.
I guess...or a testement to their loyal fans. Not many fan bases would be so patient and/or take the time to fix huge chunks of game for free, develop "unofficial" patches that far outperform the professional devs efforts etc and all without mass refund requests.
It IS a damning indictment though, games are so expensive these days and ESO is particularly expensive. Companies like ZOS and Bethesda should be accountable for the unfinished messes they release. There comes a point where companies like ZOS and Bethesda are actually mugging off their loyal fan base...
Have you ever made an MMO?
Just because a game has bugs doesn't make it a scam, or mean that the devs are trying to somehow 'cheat' us. These are BY FAR, the most complex, expensive, and difficult games to create. This just gets made worse, considering every year we demand more out of these games, far past the point current tech will allow.
We ask for the impossible from these games, and then when the devs try and give us the closest thing they can to that, we criticize them for either taking to long, or not doing 100% what we asked (which, btw, is different from the other million people all doing the same thing).
I know this is America, but sooner or later you're going to have to realize that quality takes TIME. There's a limit to how much you can speed it up by dumping in cash, and it drives up the costs astronomically. These games do require patience. There no real getting around that. And there's certaintly nothing wrong w/ people being patient for a game they are enjoying.
You can't expect these games to have everything overnight. If you want a truly good game, you need to give it time to develope.
We should hold devs / publisher accountable, but only when they truly have done something wrong to be accountable for. Instead of leading witch hunts to condemn every decision, timetable, or balance change we don't agree with.
Originally posted by achesoma While I appreciate the enthusiasm, the game is far from ready and already releasing too soon IMO. It's only 4 more weeks anyway(preorder). All the quest bugs are frustrating. Not to mention getting stuck in NPC conversations and at crafting tables. /reloadui was the theme of the weekend.
None of that matters apparently as this weekend was purely a stress test
It is very worrying being what, 4 weeks from launch and the game build on public beta is months old. How much time do they think they will have to public beta the CURRENT build, with all of its bugs etc when they game is due to go live in 4 weeks?
I'd be worried too if the weekend beta were anything more than stress test + show and tell.
Good thing there is a REAL 24/7 beta in the PTS with the same testers for about a year who do play test the latest build.
Besides, all this melodramatic "glass half empty" posts are ignoring the fact that, quest and stuck conversation bugs aside, this old build is already in better shape than the release state of many past and current MMOs. Except for those who want to nit-pick shit so they can pose as good forum warriors, it's very playable as is.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Meh, people should really spend less time looking under the hood of the car and start enjoying the ride instead. Not only are they probably not competent, but they're not aware of internal affairs either. What details do we know of their roadmap, and more important, why should we care.
It's really so pointless to start thinking about this beta version or that beta version and these 2 bugs here and those 3 over there.
I'd rather wait a month or two more tbh. Saw lots of things that still need to be fixed during last weekend and they should also address issues with phasing. Game is very good even in current state imo but some more polish would definitely not hurt it.
Originally posted by achesoma While I appreciate the enthusiasm, the game is far from ready and already releasing too soon IMO. It's only 4 more weeks anyway(preorder). All the quest bugs are frustrating. Not to mention getting stuck in NPC conversations and at crafting tables. /reloadui was the theme of the weekend.
None of that matters apparently as this weekend was purely a stress test
It is very worrying being what, 4 weeks from launch and the game build on public beta is months old. How much time do they think they will have to public beta the CURRENT build, with all of its bugs etc when they game is due to go live in 4 weeks?
I'd be worried too if the weekend beta were anything more than stress test + show and tell.
Good thing there is a REAL 24/7 beta in the PTS with the same testers for about a year who do play test the latest build.
Besides, all this melodramatic "glass half empty" posts are ignoring the fact that, quest and stuck conversation bugs aside, this old build is already in better shape than the release state of many past and current MMOs. Except for those who want to nit-pick shit so they can pose as good forum warriors, it's very playable as is.
The "old" build is also irrelevant.
What is there to "show and tell" about a build that is 6 months out of date? From what I have read following the weekend beta the only things they had to show and tell were a considerable number of bugs that were NOT there in the previous beta. Plus many bugs that were simply unfixed despite being reported previously.
A closed beta on the new build is not really a very robust way to test the code base or stress test the server in relation to the current build is it?
With 4-6 weeks till launch we had better hope this new build that few people have even seen is just about perfect as they have left themsevles zero time for recovery if it is not.
Have you actually played or only "read"?
And where's this 6-month-old shit coming from? The build we played last weekend 0.171 was a tiny revision of build 0.17 that is 1.5 months old - January not August lol.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I've enjoyed every beta weekend, but after the first few not seeing an updated build just boogles my mind. Let's be honest here... we aren't testers in the traditional sense and the beta weekends weren't using us as such. We were there to provide a load, maybe a few of us actually submitted reports but the testing phase's are done to draw in customers and preorders. We can lie to ourselves all we want by remembering beta testing of old, but it's simply not done that way anymore. That being the case I do not understand why they didn't update the builds to provide the best "experience" for everyone. The whole notion of beta's just annoys me at this point, it is an antiquated system that needs to be changed. I don't mean we need to go back to the real beta testing, the industry has moved far past that, but the excuse of "it's beta" just doesn't hold water any longer. Granted I loved the weekends, but I would wager not seeing any improvement ran a significant amount of people away from the game. It just feels like a bad practice that hasn't been thought about by most developers.
There are still glaring issues that I want to see corrections for, namely the massive lag in Cyrodil when factions are locking the map. If they can't improve the stability they will have to reduce the caps, and currently playing on any of the faction locked servers was an all out lag fest.
Originally posted by achesoma While I appreciate the enthusiasm, the game is far from ready and already releasing too soon IMO. It's only 4 more weeks anyway(preorder). All the quest bugs are frustrating. Not to mention getting stuck in NPC conversations and at crafting tables. /reloadui was the theme of the weekend.
None of that matters apparently as this weekend was purely a stress test
It is very worrying being what, 4 weeks from launch and the game build on public beta is months old. How much time do they think they will have to public beta the CURRENT build, with all of its bugs etc when they game is due to go live in 4 weeks?
I'd be worried too if the weekend beta were anything more than stress test + show and tell.
Good thing there is a REAL 24/7 beta in the PTS with the same testers for about a year who do play test the latest build.
Besides, all this melodramatic "glass half empty" posts are ignoring the fact that, quest and stuck conversation bugs aside, this old build is already in better shape than the release state of many past and current MMOs. Except for those who want to nit-pick shit so they can pose as good forum warriors, it's very playable as is.
The "old" build is also irrelevant.
What is there to "show and tell" about a build that is 6 months out of date? From what I have read following the weekend beta the only things they had to show and tell were a considerable number of bugs that were NOT there in the previous beta. Plus many bugs that were simply unfixed despite being reported previously.
A closed beta on the new build is not really a very robust way to test the code base or stress test the server in relation to the current build is it?
With 4-6 weeks till launch we had better hope this new build that few people have even seen is just about perfect as they have left themsevles zero time for recovery if it is not.
Have you actually played or only "read"?
And where's this 6-month-old shit coming from? The build we played last weekend 0.171 was a tiny revision of build 0.17 that is 1.5 months old - January not August lol.
You can split hairs and white knite all you want.
That doesnt change the fact that the beta build used for this weekend just gone is out of date and irrelevant.
The current build has some huge changes that could have a potentially huge impact on performance and experience alike, such as collision detection and changes to starter zones. Why is this not the build in public beta / public stress test given that launch day is almost on top of us?
Circa 6 weeks from the live date of this game, there are still no plans for a robust public beta / stress test for what is basically the finished product.
What kind of marketing decision is it to have a beta with such redundent code this close to release? And you spin this as positive? The devs are obviously not confident enough in the current build to roll it out for public beta or stress test and that is a huge problem so close to the live date, a huge problem that all of the apologists are just choosing to ignore.
But it's ok, everything is fine because 6 weeks from release they are still showing and telling old code...win
Okie dokey... you obviously know best what's relevant and isn't... being a beta tester and all.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Preythan I vote to keep the release date as is. People will complain if it's released early and people will complain if it's released later.
And people will complain if it's released as scheduled. It's a fundamental truth of the internet that people will always complain, so it's really not a relevant factor in decision making.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
So enlighten me, why is everything rosey given the following:
1. Six weeks from live and no sign of public beta/stress test for the finished product.
2. Even the old beta build that is still being used has reports of bugs that were not there in the previous beta as well as bugs previously reported but still unfixed.
3. Last beta was hailed as having zero latency in mass PvP. This beta feedback suggests latency is now a problem.
4. Many people now saying the phasing is broken and is actually counter intuitive to a compelling group experience.
So even the OLD build seems to be going backwards in terms of performance.
With the actual finished product build still not even ready for public beta or stress test I am failing to see the bright side...
You make a few huge mistakes for someone working in the IT industry.
You're simplifying things so much. Phasing is broken? What does that even mean, do you even know? It's meaningless, it doesn't mean anything. And it means even less when regular people say it.
You're also assuming they do their testing right if they do it the way you would do it. That's basically your argument. They're not doing the tests the way I would do it. That's your message.
So enlighten me, why is everything rosey given the following:
1. Six weeks from live and no sign of public beta/stress test for the finished product.
2. Even the old beta build that is still being used has reports of bugs that were not there in the previous beta as well as bugs previously reported but still unfixed.
3. Last beta was hailed as having zero latency in mass PvP. This beta feedback suggests latency is now a problem.
4. Many people now saying the phasing is broken and is actually counter intuitive to a compelling group experience.
So even the OLD build seems to be going backwards in terms of performance.
With the actual finished product build still not even ready for public beta or stress test I am failing to see the bright side...
Enlightenment on the way.
1. They had over a Million people on this last stress test.
2. They used the old beta build, because the new one is stil being tested in closed beta, and they don't feel like dealing with new doom and gloom threads or posts. But it has been stated that it addressed all the major bugs of the old beta version and over 1000 fixs to it. You will see the new beta version before launch also they have already said to us.
3. They had a few test instances of PVP where you were unwilling participants in beta testing. All the other instances of PVP were perfect and was no latency.
4. Phasing isn't broken, what is the issue is people who group up want to never see their friends disappear or see mobs that pop for them. They are already testing a fix to this whilch keeps people on each others steps of the quest so that never happsns. It will be ready before launch.
So there it is an a nutshell, its easier to just ask about a bug or feature then shouting fire in a theater!
Comments
for the best interest of the game: instead of 4 weeks i rather more works put into it. so for me 8-10 weeks from now would be ideal. the game would be more ready.
for the best interest of myself: 4 weeks 8 weeks 12 weeks no problem. just not half a year late as i ve already bought the game.
List of SOE lies
^There you go, you can watch people streaming the private test server live, (it's the full game, no level cap).
I posted this in another ESO thread too, sorry for the redundancy.
Don't get me wrong, there will be bugs at release, but the current PTS version is not anywhere near the level of brokenness that the weekend beta version is.
+1
"Hey Bob should we use the latest build with no bugs for the weekend beta."
"Nah - we need the bad publicity."
Companies don't need to run betas; they do need to release bug free games.
And before someone says: not possible sorry it is. software these days is a part of everyday life and the techniques are well developed.
We expect car and aircraft manufacturers, powergrid controllers, TVs, operating systems, stock control software - all sorts of software stuff to work. Doesn't always - but we expect it to. And when it doesn't we push back. Why should game companies be given "special dispensation".
Blizzard should not be put on a pedestal for saying "it will release when its ready" - and no that doesn't mean Blizzard games don't have bugs. It is all about the culture; the aim should be zero tolerance. And then bugs that might slip through - it happens - are likely to be obscure and uncommon - not things that impact lots and lots of people.
And less than 4 weeks out from launch ESO just doesn't look ready.
Well to be fair Skyrim is probably the buggiest PC game I've ever played so I guess this is up to the same quality but this game is buggy as heck. Like 1 in 5 quests were bugged during this last beta weekend.
Whilst I have always loved their single player RPGs, to be fair, anything with the name Zenimax or Bethesda attached to it is going to be the most bug ridden mess you have ever played. Both companies are infamous for it.
It is a testament to the quality of their actual games that they can release so buggy and still be so beloved though.
Disagree.
As much as I want the game to be out RIGHT NAOO!!!!!, I want it done right. I want them to fix what needs fixing, to polish, to actually implement and test adventure zones (potentially even having raid content). I want them to test the Imperial City, add in a DF-type dungeon if possible (though I would be fine w/ waiting a few months for that to be added later).
Skill-balancing, lag, etc.
The game is a ton of fun, but it's far from flawless. Fix the bugs, test the game in it's entirely, don't rush it. We've had far too many games do that and blow up as a result. (And not in the good way)
Several bugs just while playing on the starter islands. Had to use /stuck several times. Conversations would bug and keep me in conversation-mode with no possible exit other than /stuck which killed me. Animations aren't my cup of tea but I suppose you can't call them bugs..
The game could use some extra time fixing.. I remind you of the many games released with unfinished content, game breaking bugs etc... Don't let your impatience cloud your judgement! The current build is riddled with bugs. I hope the newest build will solve some of these.
Have you ever made an MMO?
Just because a game has bugs doesn't make it a scam, or mean that the devs are trying to somehow 'cheat' us. These are BY FAR, the most complex, expensive, and difficult games to create. This just gets made worse, considering every year we demand more out of these games, far past the point current tech will allow.
We ask for the impossible from these games, and then when the devs try and give us the closest thing they can to that, we criticize them for either taking to long, or not doing 100% what we asked (which, btw, is different from the other million people all doing the same thing).
I know this is America, but sooner or later you're going to have to realize that quality takes TIME. There's a limit to how much you can speed it up by dumping in cash, and it drives up the costs astronomically. These games do require patience. There no real getting around that. And there's certaintly nothing wrong w/ people being patient for a game they are enjoying.
You can't expect these games to have everything overnight. If you want a truly good game, you need to give it time to develope.
We should hold devs / publisher accountable, but only when they truly have done something wrong to be accountable for. Instead of leading witch hunts to condemn every decision, timetable, or balance change we don't agree with.
I'd be worried too if the weekend beta were anything more than stress test + show and tell.
Good thing there is a REAL 24/7 beta in the PTS with the same testers for about a year who do play test the latest build.
Besides, all this melodramatic "glass half empty" posts are ignoring the fact that, quest and stuck conversation bugs aside, this old build is already in better shape than the release state of many past and current MMOs. Except for those who want to nit-pick shit so they can pose as good forum warriors, it's very playable as is.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
From my limited time is the beta from this game I would say the need a few more months at least if not more
Meh, people should really spend less time looking under the hood of the car and start enjoying the ride instead. Not only are they probably not competent, but they're not aware of internal affairs either. What details do we know of their roadmap, and more important, why should we care.
It's really so pointless to start thinking about this beta version or that beta version and these 2 bugs here and those 3 over there.
Have you actually played or only "read"?
And where's this 6-month-old shit coming from? The build we played last weekend 0.171 was a tiny revision of build 0.17 that is 1.5 months old - January not August lol.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I've enjoyed every beta weekend, but after the first few not seeing an updated build just boogles my mind. Let's be honest here... we aren't testers in the traditional sense and the beta weekends weren't using us as such. We were there to provide a load, maybe a few of us actually submitted reports but the testing phase's are done to draw in customers and preorders. We can lie to ourselves all we want by remembering beta testing of old, but it's simply not done that way anymore. That being the case I do not understand why they didn't update the builds to provide the best "experience" for everyone. The whole notion of beta's just annoys me at this point, it is an antiquated system that needs to be changed. I don't mean we need to go back to the real beta testing, the industry has moved far past that, but the excuse of "it's beta" just doesn't hold water any longer. Granted I loved the weekends, but I would wager not seeing any improvement ran a significant amount of people away from the game. It just feels like a bad practice that hasn't been thought about by most developers.
There are still glaring issues that I want to see corrections for, namely the massive lag in Cyrodil when factions are locking the map. If they can't improve the stability they will have to reduce the caps, and currently playing on any of the faction locked servers was an all out lag fest.
Okie dokey... you obviously know best what's relevant and isn't... being a beta tester and all.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I would like to see them wait and fix the phasing issues assuming they can be fixed.
If not then the game will die fast and hard.
And people will complain if it's released as scheduled. It's a fundamental truth of the internet that people will always complain, so it's really not a relevant factor in decision making.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
You make a few huge mistakes for someone working in the IT industry.
You're simplifying things so much. Phasing is broken? What does that even mean, do you even know? It's meaningless, it doesn't mean anything. And it means even less when regular people say it.
You're also assuming they do their testing right if they do it the way you would do it. That's basically your argument. They're not doing the tests the way I would do it. That's your message.
Enlightenment on the way.
1. They had over a Million people on this last stress test.
2. They used the old beta build, because the new one is stil being tested in closed beta, and they don't feel like dealing with new doom and gloom threads or posts. But it has been stated that it addressed all the major bugs of the old beta version and over 1000 fixs to it. You will see the new beta version before launch also they have already said to us.
3. They had a few test instances of PVP where you were unwilling participants in beta testing. All the other instances of PVP were perfect and was no latency.
4. Phasing isn't broken, what is the issue is people who group up want to never see their friends disappear or see mobs that pop for them. They are already testing a fix to this whilch keeps people on each others steps of the quest so that never happsns. It will be ready before launch.
So there it is an a nutshell, its easier to just ask about a bug or feature then shouting fire in a theater!
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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