Silly threads like this need to go. Completely selfish, isolated, and ignorant. Theme park games don't need to go anywhere. Maybe re-word the OP or something so it doesn't read so careless. Eliminating one type of game doesn't make another magically come to life and doesn't automatically make it any good. Bad choice of words... many words.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I believe that sanboxes are slowly making a return. If if a big franchise like EverQuest succeeds with their EQNext installment the market will pick up on it and get a share of it. Theme parks are well and alive because the market still exists. People are still enjoying this particular (sub)genre and naturally companies will attempt to capitalise on its popularity.
When I played the Wildstar beta this past weekend, I was simply amazed at the great character customization, good animations, funny themes, and detailed introduction into the factions. The gameplay was solid, and the graphics were sound.
However, when I was given a quest to kill 10 and gather these I stopped what I was doing and said to myself "Haven't I already done this a 100 times before?". After that I left the game, went into the game folder and uninstalled the game.
The Themepark is something that World of warcraft has made iconic in the mmo industry. It's almost as if it is impossible for there to be a mmo that is made without this design. Why is this you might ask? It's simple, game publishers are afraid to take chances anymore, they see the only way for them to regain their profit is to base it on the "themepark" or "World of warcraft" formula in order to gain sells. This has plagued the mmo industry for far too long and has severely reduced the amount of unique and innovative mmo's that we used to see on the shelves.
Before WoW there was, City of heroes, Final fantasy XI, Dark age of Camelot, Everquest 1 & 2, Star wars galaxies, Lineage I & II, etc.. Different designs, different gameplay elements, different endgames.
After WoW there was, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW.
A change needs to happen.
While for the most part I agree with you, I think themeparks are here to stay and there is nothing wrong with them. We always have the option of not playing them, and sandboxes are making a return in a big way with games like EQN.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
When I played the Wildstar beta this past weekend, I was simply amazed at the great character customization, good animations, funny themes, and detailed introduction into the factions. The gameplay was solid, and the graphics were sound.
However, when I was given a quest to kill 10 and gather these I stopped what I was doing and said to myself "Haven't I already done this a 100 times before?". After that I left the game, went into the game folder and uninstalled the game.
The Themepark is something that World of warcraft has made iconic in the mmo industry. It's almost as if it is impossible for there to be a mmo that is made without this design. Why is this you might ask? It's simple, game publishers are afraid to take chances anymore, they see the only way for them to regain their profit is to base it on the "themepark" or "World of warcraft" formula in order to gain sells. This has plagued the mmo industry for far too long and has severely reduced the amount of unique and innovative mmo's that we used to see on the shelves.
Before WoW there was, City of heroes, Final fantasy XI, Dark age of Camelot, Everquest 1 & 2, Star wars galaxies, Lineage I & II, etc.. Different designs, different gameplay elements, different endgames.
After WoW there was, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW.
So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?
Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.
I'm pretty sure there are many others who share my opinion.
Don't bring the "You" argument into this.
Being in the gaming industry, you need to have all kinds of games...Today more than ever because to many people like different games..... So closing Theme parks would be silly to do... Their is more fans of Themepark than any other game on the market..
I perfer not to play Theme parks anymore, not that they are good, but I been gaming a long time and want something else. I know many gamers who hate the games I play and perfer Theme parks.
MMO'S are dieing, and people can argue they are not all they want. The fact is any good Dev, or company is going to stay away from MMO's... You know why??? Angry birds, Flapper birds, they take weeks to months to make and need 1 dev . They make more and less hassel than MMO's...
You don't have every person screaming for this and that. When I got into the industry I wanted to help make MMO's better but after dealing with the public, now I see why most good devs and companys are going the other way... I will stick to my phone games tyvm...
Originally posted by nilden How about make sandbox, virtual world, and alternative (MMOFPS, MMORTS, etc) games for the people who want them and the people who like themeparks have tons to choose from as well. You don't need to close something down to open up something new.
Companys have tried this, the issue the Themeparks gamers normally throw a fit... If I had it my way we would have no hand holding in any game. But i'm not selfish and understand there are other gamers who like other games. But I would never make a game with hand holding at all. But again, I don't make games justf or profit, I make them because I enjoy to and of course money is important it is not the first thing in my head thinking, how can I screw this person today and over charge .
So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?
Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.
I'm pretty sure there are many others who share my opinion.
Don't bring the "You" argument into this.
Yes but 100x more of those who doesnt unfortunatelly for you boy, you and other themapark haters are the minority here, not the other way around.
That is the issue. The market is driven by numbers. You can always find a small group of people that like anything .. but are they big enough to form a market?
I've been sticking with EVE only for a long time now because each time I play another fantasy-type MMO I run into those same damn kill and collect X quests and there's only so much I can take of that. Doing the same thing I have been for over a decade isn't too fun so if other things pop up I dislike I'm far more likely to pack in the towel. I tell people I quit TERA because I had an NPC tell me that this wasn't his first time at the rodeo, and that was when I logged out for the last time, but the shitty localization was just the last thing on top of the sameness of everything I'd been doing.
I think this is one of the reasons I've like ESO so much in the beta weekends. Whatever you want to say about their quests, they offer purpose for everything you're doing, instead of "10 of these things have to die because of reasons and I'm too lazy to do it myself." I've seen a lot of comments about how ESO feels like every other MMO we've been playing for years but its felt like a breath of damned fresh air to me.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?
Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.
I think the themeparks will always be around , and that's fine for those that like them, have at em. We that want more sandbox-ish games are long overdue for some of those though. There's room for both types of mmorpg's but there aren't many for us to choose from with everyone playing it safe with themeparks. I like when mmorpg's had depth, adventure, and exploration like the old school mmorpg's. Ultima Online and Asheron's Call, in today's mmorpg's there's nothing like them, sadly.
I really do feel for the sandbox players. The pickings are slim, indeed. I am in the same boat desiring MMOs with virtual worlds for my character to live in.
It's not that I do not want to see sandbox MMOs made, for I do. It was the OP's insistence that everyone that likes themeparks should all out lose their type of game.
I think the sandbox players have a better shot at getting an MMO more to their liking than I am
Its not like there's a good selection of themeparks either. A huge variety of mediocre ones, none really all that good imo.
And the future doesn't look exactly promising either.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by CrazKanuk Well. If Video Killed The Radio Star, what will kill the Themepark Star?
It's hard to imagine but I can make a wild scenario which wouldn't bode well for them. WoW continues to lose subs, ESO flops, Wildstar flops and EQN (assuming it's as sandboxy as it seems to be so far) releases to widespread acclaim and success. If those three things happen I don't see anyone spending huge amount of dollars on themeparks and more would try to copy EQN.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk Well. If Video Killed The Radio Star, what will kill the Themepark Star?
It's hard to imagine but I can make a wild scenario which wouldn't bode well for them. WoW continues to lose subs, ESO flops, Wildstar flops and EQN (assuming it's as sandboxy as it seems to be so far) releases to widespread acclaim and success. If those three things happen I don't see anyone spending huge amount of dollars on themeparks and more would try to copy EQN.
Or may be all of them will flop and devs turn their attention away from mmorpgs and to other forms of online games.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk Well. If Video Killed The Radio Star, what will kill the Themepark Star?
It's hard to imagine but I can make a wild scenario which wouldn't bode well for them. WoW continues to lose subs, ESO flops, Wildstar flops and EQN (assuming it's as sandboxy as it seems to be so far) releases to widespread acclaim and success. If those three things happen I don't see anyone spending huge amount of dollars on themeparks and more would try to copy EQN.
Or may be all of them will flop and devs turn their attention away from mmorpgs and to other forms of online games.
I can see this happening too, but I certainly hope not. Without MMO's, I'd be mostly done with gaming at this point in my life.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk Well. If Video Killed The Radio Star, what will kill the Themepark Star?
It's hard to imagine but I can make a wild scenario which wouldn't bode well for them. WoW continues to lose subs, ESO flops, Wildstar flops and EQN (assuming it's as sandboxy as it seems to be so far) releases to widespread acclaim and success. If those three things happen I don't see anyone spending huge amount of dollars on themeparks and more would try to copy EQN.
How is EQN sanboxy? Landmark is sandboxy...that I get. Are we counting games without quests and level progression 'sandboxy'
Originally posted by CrazKanuk Well. If Video Killed The Radio Star, what will kill the Themepark Star?
It's hard to imagine but I can make a wild scenario which wouldn't bode well for them. WoW continues to lose subs, ESO flops, Wildstar flops and EQN (assuming it's as sandboxy as it seems to be so far) releases to widespread acclaim and success. If those three things happen I don't see anyone spending huge amount of dollars on themeparks and more would try to copy EQN.
Or may be all of them will flop and devs turn their attention away from mmorpgs and to other forms of online games.
I can see this happening too, but I certainly hope not. Without MMO's, I'd be mostly done with gaming at this point in my life.
Well .. that is you.
There are plenty of better games (to me) than MMOs.
So, since *you* don't like a certain style of MMO, they should NOT exist for those that DO like them?
Wow... The entitlement is strong in this one.
It isn't about entitlement. He is 100% correct, the phenomenon of WoW had the secondary effect of creating a void in innovation. Prior to WoW we had a dynamic range of possibilities and the field was open to innovation. Since then, WoW has acted as the sounding stone most MMOs.
I am getting seriously sick of this attitude. I don't like a certian style so we need to close that entire side of the industry. Rational thinking right. Why can't we each have games that we enjoy, Everything must become either sandbox or Themepark, One stays the other is deleted as a waste of space. So lets delete half the industry, just for you Folks that cant believe in both. Then when the amount of players playing these games diminishes to the point of non profit and these games close their doors you will look at yourself and say "Damn, guess i made a mistake". Who am i kidding you will probubly blame EA. /Rant
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
If you hate themepark games and want them to die? Great! Just don't buy them. However, people continuing to buy em indicates that people do sort of enjoy that gameplay. If a better format comes, then maybe it can be a big success. So far though they've all been mehish games.
What do you think happens in Sandbox? Its going to be repetition, often in another form and likely in an even more tedious manor. Any type of 'progression' will involve tedium, even if its repackaged in a slightly different shape.
That and its silly you mention stuff being like wow... you know... when everquest 1 basically consisted of 90% of the stuff wow had already, not to mention those "Old" games had pretty much a good majority of the elements EQ1 even had. Don't be giving credit silly to wow for something that it wasn't event he first to start, just the one to cash in the most from the EQ formula made more casual.
Prior to WoW we had a dynamic range of possibilities and the field was open to innovation.
Do people really believe that hogwash?
If the innovation did exist, you're admitting the whole industry was so weak and incompetent to allow one company to rule all of them.
What next, think Blizzard can part the Red Sea, too? -_-
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or perfunctory comments in retort...
For example, when Steve Jobs created NeXT Computer Inc. it wasn't incompetency that ended the technological hardware line of that company, they were making some of the best hardware on the planet (at the time). However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology; the technology and software were over a decade ahead of the curve and cross collaboration was a rather cryptic concept (ref 'the NeXT book').
Later, after certain hallmarks were reached and public awareness increased, through osmosis demand was created for both the hardware and the operating system, both in different forms (ie apple OS X).
WoW, for example, already had a suscessful base (of 13 year olds) with their off-line game series, and when the WoW mmorpg entered the market it had the "McDonalds effect" of expandanding the base but accutely. Postmodern people do not seem to understand that greater numbers do not equal superior quality, but unfortunately this must be explained over (and over) again on all levels of the human condition.
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or perfunctory comments in retort...
However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology
^ The entitlement is strong in this guy...whoa!
Do we need to define more insidious comments, again?
Or does logic go out the window as that rage of gimme gimme gimme is more important than common sense, especially when at war with the customers themselves? -_-
BTW, now you know why my relative's computer shop dumped Apple back in the late 80s. Not only where their own representatives nasty with customers, they were with those in the business (and tried to rape them on parts costs). The local Mac shops came and went, because high price tags and the designer "artiste" mentality rubbed both the customer and techs wanting to service the pieces of junk. If customers wanted service in their shop, customers had to ditch Apple as a consequence (and since he developed a very good rep in building and maintaining networks for decades), they usually did.
Don't piss off the customers AND service people. It doesn't help that bottom line...at all.
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or perfunctory comments in retort...
However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology
Or does logic go out the window as that rage of gimme gimme gimme is more important than common sense, especially when at war with the customers themselves? -_-
Actually you are right.
Just on this one comment.
A physiology lesson for all mmorpg.com goers.
When someone gets angry there is decreased blood flow to the frontal lobe. This means that their ability to reason is impaired.
Thus angry = stupid.
Explains a lot of posts on this board doesn't it.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
When I played the Wildstar beta this past weekend, I was simply amazed at the great character customization, good animations, funny themes, and detailed introduction into the factions. The gameplay was solid, and the graphics were sound.
However, when I was given a quest to kill 10 and gather these I stopped what I was doing and said to myself "Haven't I already done this a 100 times before?". After that I left the game, went into the game folder and uninstalled the game.
The Themepark is something that World of warcraft has made iconic in the mmo industry. It's almost as if it is impossible for there to be a mmo that is made without this design. Why is this you might ask? It's simple, game publishers are afraid to take chances anymore, they see the only way for them to regain their profit is to base it on the "themepark" or "World of warcraft" formula in order to gain sells. This has plagued the mmo industry for far too long and has severely reduced the amount of unique and innovative mmo's that we used to see on the shelves.
Before WoW there was, City of heroes, Final fantasy XI, Dark age of Camelot, Everquest 1 & 2, Star wars galaxies, Lineage I & II, etc.. Different designs, different gameplay elements, different endgames.
After WoW there was, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW, WoW.
A change needs to happen.
Sorry too hard to make a sandbox game with EVERYTHING. What you end up getting is specialized games or games that don't do anything well.
Comments
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
While for the most part I agree with you, I think themeparks are here to stay and there is nothing wrong with them. We always have the option of not playing them, and sandboxes are making a return in a big way with games like EQN.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Can I have your beta key at least?
Being in the gaming industry, you need to have all kinds of games...Today more than ever because to many people like different games..... So closing Theme parks would be silly to do... Their is more fans of Themepark than any other game on the market..
I perfer not to play Theme parks anymore, not that they are good, but I been gaming a long time and want something else. I know many gamers who hate the games I play and perfer Theme parks.
MMO'S are dieing, and people can argue they are not all they want. The fact is any good Dev, or company is going to stay away from MMO's... You know why??? Angry birds, Flapper birds, they take weeks to months to make and need 1 dev . They make more and less hassel than MMO's...
You don't have every person screaming for this and that. When I got into the industry I wanted to help make MMO's better but after dealing with the public, now I see why most good devs and companys are going the other way... I will stick to my phone games tyvm...
Companys have tried this, the issue the Themeparks gamers normally throw a fit... If I had it my way we would have no hand holding in any game. But i'm not selfish and understand there are other gamers who like other games. But I would never make a game with hand holding at all. But again, I don't make games justf or profit, I make them because I enjoy to and of course money is important it is not the first thing in my head thinking, how can I screw this person today and over charge .
That is the issue. The market is driven by numbers. You can always find a small group of people that like anything .. but are they big enough to form a market?
I think this is one of the reasons I've like ESO so much in the beta weekends. Whatever you want to say about their quests, they offer purpose for everything you're doing, instead of "10 of these things have to die because of reasons and I'm too lazy to do it myself." I've seen a lot of comments about how ESO feels like every other MMO we've been playing for years but its felt like a breath of damned fresh air to me.
Its not like there's a good selection of themeparks either. A huge variety of mediocre ones, none really all that good imo.
And the future doesn't look exactly promising either.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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It's hard to imagine but I can make a wild scenario which wouldn't bode well for them. WoW continues to lose subs, ESO flops, Wildstar flops and EQN (assuming it's as sandboxy as it seems to be so far) releases to widespread acclaim and success. If those three things happen I don't see anyone spending huge amount of dollars on themeparks and more would try to copy EQN.
Or may be all of them will flop and devs turn their attention away from mmorpgs and to other forms of online games.
I can see this happening too, but I certainly hope not. Without MMO's, I'd be mostly done with gaming at this point in my life.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
How is EQN sanboxy? Landmark is sandboxy...that I get. Are we counting games without quests and level progression 'sandboxy'
Well .. that is you.
There are plenty of better games (to me) than MMOs.
It isn't about entitlement. He is 100% correct, the phenomenon of WoW had the secondary effect of creating a void in innovation. Prior to WoW we had a dynamic range of possibilities and the field was open to innovation. Since then, WoW has acted as the sounding stone most MMOs.
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Do people really believe that hogwash?
If the innovation did exist, you're admitting the whole industry was so weak and incompetent to allow one company to rule all of them.
What next, think Blizzard can part the Red Sea, too? -_-
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
What do you think happens in Sandbox? Its going to be repetition, often in another form and likely in an even more tedious manor. Any type of 'progression' will involve tedium, even if its repackaged in a slightly different shape.
That and its silly you mention stuff being like wow... you know... when everquest 1 basically consisted of 90% of the stuff wow had already, not to mention those "Old" games had pretty much a good majority of the elements EQ1 even had. Don't be giving credit silly to wow for something that it wasn't event he first to start, just the one to cash in the most from the EQ formula made more casual.
I was debating if I should bother correcting this wrong-headed mode of thinking as it will no doubt result in a trivial or perfunctory comments in retort...
For example, when Steve Jobs created NeXT Computer Inc. it wasn't incompetency that ended the technological hardware line of that company, they were making some of the best hardware on the planet (at the time). However, by and large the bone-headed public weren't ready for that level of ubiquity in technology; the technology and software were over a decade ahead of the curve and cross collaboration was a rather cryptic concept (ref 'the NeXT book').
Later, after certain hallmarks were reached and public awareness increased, through osmosis demand was created for both the hardware and the operating system, both in different forms (ie apple OS X).
WoW, for example, already had a suscessful base (of 13 year olds) with their off-line game series, and when the WoW mmorpg entered the market it had the "McDonalds effect" of expandanding the base but accutely. Postmodern people do not seem to understand that greater numbers do not equal superior quality, but unfortunately this must be explained over (and over) again on all levels of the human condition.
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
+1
^ The entitlement is strong in this guy...whoa!
Do we need to define more insidious comments, again?
Or does logic go out the window as that rage of gimme gimme gimme is more important than common sense, especially when at war with the customers themselves? -_-
BTW, now you know why my relative's computer shop dumped Apple back in the late 80s. Not only where their own representatives nasty with customers, they were with those in the business (and tried to rape them on parts costs). The local Mac shops came and went, because high price tags and the designer "artiste" mentality rubbed both the customer and techs wanting to service the pieces of junk. If customers wanted service in their shop, customers had to ditch Apple as a consequence (and since he developed a very good rep in building and maintaining networks for decades), they usually did.
Don't piss off the customers AND service people. It doesn't help that bottom line...at all.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Actually you are right.
Just on this one comment.
A physiology lesson for all mmorpg.com goers.
When someone gets angry there is decreased blood flow to the frontal lobe. This means that their ability to reason is impaired.
Thus angry = stupid.
Explains a lot of posts on this board doesn't it.
Sorry too hard to make a sandbox game with EVERYTHING. What you end up getting is specialized games or games that don't do anything well.