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Why is this game considered a failure?

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  • marsh9799marsh9799 Member Posts: 100
    Originally posted by dirtyd77
    Originally posted by Tygranir
     

    prof·it

    ?präfit/
    noun

    noun: profit; plural noun: profits

    1.  

      1
      a financial gain, esp. the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.
       
      Something tells me that EA is not going to go bankrupt while making a financial gain. EA kinda knows what they are doing. Moreso than you.
     

    It all depends if you are talking about Gross Profit or Net Profit. 

    And other factors.  For debt, only the interest is an expense while principal repayment is not, non-cash expenses are critical to take into consideration, timing considerations, etc.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by marsh9799

    I'm very curious to see how they do.  The ESO budget is up there with SWTOR's budget.  I haven't seen anything on Wildstar.

    Never underestimate what people will pay for frivolous cosmetic fluff.  I think that the hybrid model that SWTOR and many other games have employed is what we're going to see more and more of going forward.  You've got to have a cash shop.  Some players will just put down way too much money in them.  I've seen forum posts with people talking about spending upwards of $2000 on them.  That's more than what it would have cost to subscribe to WoW since its release and purchase every single expansion.

    I agree, it seems to be the most effective model for most games.  I just wouldn't characterize having cosmetics in a cash shop that subscribers have to pay extra for as a "problem" because it's generally extra fluff which exists for the sole purpose of being sold in the cash shop.  It's not like they remove something from the game that was going to be there anyway and turn it into a cash shop exclusive.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
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    Through strength, I gain power.
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  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741
    Originally posted by marsh9799
    Originally posted by dirtyd77
    Originally posted by Tygranir
     

    prof·it

    ?präfit/
    noun

    noun: profit; plural noun: profits

    1.  

      1
      a financial gain, esp. the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.
       
      Something tells me that EA is not going to go bankrupt while making a financial gain. EA kinda knows what they are doing. Moreso than you.
     

    It all depends if you are talking about Gross Profit or Net Profit. 

    And other factors.  For debt, only the interest is an expense while principal repayment is not, non-cash expenses are critical to take into consideration, timing considerations, etc.

    Except EA has told shareholders that SWTOR is currently running at a profit which, by definition, is financial gain. Or are you going to tell me EA is Lying to shareholders and the SEC?

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  • dirtyd77dirtyd77 Member UncommonPosts: 383
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by marsh9799

    I'm very curious to see how they do.  The ESO budget is up there with SWTOR's budget.  I haven't seen anything on Wildstar.

    Never underestimate what people will pay for frivolous cosmetic fluff.  I think that the hybrid model that SWTOR and many other games have employed is what we're going to see more and more of going forward.  You've got to have a cash shop.  Some players will just put down way too much money in them.  I've seen forum posts with people talking about spending upwards of $2000 on them.  That's more than what it would have cost to subscribe to WoW since its release and purchase every single expansion.

    I agree, it seems to be the most effective model for most games.  I just wouldn't characterize having cosmetics in a cash shop that subscribers have to pay extra for as a "problem" because it's generally extra fluff which exists for the sole purpose of being sold in the cash shop.  It's not like they remove something from the game that was going to be there anyway and turn it into a cash shop exclusive.

    See it is a problem to me as I consider fluff to be content... and this something that I just can't stand for a very bad trend for the industry.  Maybe I am to much of an old timer and it is time for me to move on... but to me that is just highway robbery.

    Either make it F2P and gate almost everything behind a cash shop

    Make it F2P / Sub with everything obtainable in game with sub (without someone having to buy it off of the cash shop and put it on the AH) 

    or 

    Make it SUB only with no f2p option and no cash shop.

    I know this is my opinion and I know based off the trend the industry is headed in I am on the losing end. I just can't change the way I feel.

    SWTOR has done this on several occasions.... Cathar , Makeb both of these were being worked on before f2p and were transitioned over. 

  • obocoboc Member UncommonPosts: 189
    Love it or hate it , SWTOR will be around for many more years. 
  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by dirtyd77

    See it is a problem to me as I consider fluff to be content... and this something that I just can't stand for a very bad trend for the industry.  Maybe I am to much of an old timer and it is time for me to move on... but to me that is just highway robbery.

    Either make it F2P and gate almost everything behind a cash shop

    Make it F2P / Sub with everything obtainable in game with sub (without someone having to buy it off of the cash shop and put it on the AH) 

    or 

    Make it SUB only with no f2p option and no cash shop.

    I know this is my opinion and I know based off the trend the industry is headed in I am on the losing end. I just can't change the way I feel. 

    Perfectly fair.  Like I said before, I'm just fortunate I don't feel that way about it.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • marsh9799marsh9799 Member Posts: 100


    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    Originally posted by marsh9799 I'm very curious to see how they do. The ESO budget is up there with SWTOR's budget. I haven't seen anything on Wildstar. Never underestimate what people will pay for frivolous cosmetic fluff. I think that the hybrid model that SWTOR and many other games have employed is what we're going to see more and more of going forward. You've got to have a cash shop. Some players will just put down way too much money in them. I've seen forum posts with people talking about spending upwards of $2000 on them. That's more than what it would have cost to subscribe to WoW since its release and purchase every single expansion.
    I agree, it seems to be the most effective model for most games. I just wouldn't characterize having cosmetics in a cash shop that subscribers have to pay extra for as a "problem" because it's generally extra fluff which exists for the sole purpose of being sold in the cash shop. It's not like they remove something from the game that was going to be there anyway and turn it into a cash shop exclusive.

    I wouldn't characterize that as a problem either. That stuff is highly addictive. When I first started playing League of Legends, I laughed at the idea of someone buying skins... like some 50 odd skins later (and several cosmetic things out of various MMO cash shops including SWTOR) I've changed my mind.


    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Originally posted by marsh9799

    Originally posted by dirtyd77

    Originally posted by Tygranir

     
    prof·it ?präfit/ noun noun: profit; plural noun: profits [*]   1 a financial gain, esp. the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.   Something tells me that EA is not going to go bankrupt while making a financial gain. EA kinda knows what they are doing. Moreso than you.
     
    It all depends if you are talking about Gross Profit or Net Profit. 
    And other factors.  For debt, only the interest is an expense while principal repayment is not, non-cash expenses are critical to take into consideration, timing considerations, etc.
    Except EA has told shareholders that SWTOR is currently running at a profit which, by definition, is financial gain. Or are you going to tell me EA is Lying to shareholders and the SEC?
     

    Financial gain =! making money.

    And like I said earlier... please show me where I said SWTOR wasn't profitable. I'm pretty sure I said I was confident that it was both profitable and cash flowing. I think the game is making money. I don't think it is making enough money to justify the investment. That's a failed investment. I said that they'd changed the game and prevented it from being an unmitigated disaster, and I'm pretty sure I was complementary about how they turned it around.

  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741
    Originally posted by marsh9799

     


    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    Originally posted by marsh9799 I'm very curious to see how they do. The ESO budget is up there with SWTOR's budget. I haven't seen anything on Wildstar. Never underestimate what people will pay for frivolous cosmetic fluff. I think that the hybrid model that SWTOR and many other games have employed is what we're going to see more and more of going forward. You've got to have a cash shop. Some players will just put down way too much money in them. I've seen forum posts with people talking about spending upwards of $2000 on them. That's more than what it would have cost to subscribe to WoW since its release and purchase every single expansion.
    I agree, it seems to be the most effective model for most games. I just wouldn't characterize having cosmetics in a cash shop that subscribers have to pay extra for as a "problem" because it's generally extra fluff which exists for the sole purpose of being sold in the cash shop. It's not like they remove something from the game that was going to be there anyway and turn it into a cash shop exclusive.

     

    I wouldn't characterize that as a problem either. That stuff is highly addictive. When I first started playing League of Legends, I laughed at the idea of someone buying skins... like some 50 odd skins later (and several cosmetic things out of various MMO cash shops including SWTOR) I've changed my mind.

     


    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Originally posted by marsh9799

    Originally posted by dirtyd77

    Originally posted by Tygranir

     
    prof·it ?präfit/ noun noun: profit; plural noun: profits [*]   1 a financial gain, esp. the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.   Something tells me that EA is not going to go bankrupt while making a financial gain. EA kinda knows what they are doing. Moreso than you.
     

    It all depends if you are talking about Gross Profit or Net Profit. 
    And other factors.  For debt, only the interest is an expense while principal repayment is not, non-cash expenses are critical to take into consideration, timing considerations, etc.
    Except EA has told shareholders that SWTOR is currently running at a profit which, by definition, is financial gain. Or are you going to tell me EA is Lying to shareholders and the SEC?
     

     

    Financial gain =! making money.

    And like I said earlier... please show me where I said SWTOR wasn't profitable. I'm pretty sure I said I was confident that it was both profitable and cash flowing. I think the game is making money. I don't think it is making enough money to justify the investment. That's a failed investment. I said that they'd changed the game and prevented it from being an unmitigated disaster, and I'm pretty sure I was complementary about how they turned it around.

    So, you don't think it was successful. That's fine. What you think doesn't change the fact that they have recouped their costs and are currently in the black with SWTOR. To me, and in concourse with the definition of the word, SWTOR is a success.

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  • marsh9799marsh9799 Member Posts: 100
    Originally posted by dirtyd77

    I agree, it seems to be the most effective model for most games.  I just wouldn't characterize having cosmetics in a cash shop that subscribers have to pay extra for as a "problem" because it's generally extra fluff which exists for the sole purpose of being sold in the cash shop.  It's not like they remove something from the game that was going to be there anyway and turn it into a cash shop exclusive.

    See it is a problem to me as I consider fluff to be content... and this something that I just can't stand for a very bad trend for the industry.  Maybe I am to much of an old timer and it is time for me to move on... but to me that is just highway robbery.

    Either make it F2P and gate almost everything behind a cash shop

    Make it F2P / Sub with everything obtainable in game with sub (without someone having to buy it off of the cash shop and put it on the AH) 

    or 

    Make it SUB only with no f2p option and no cash shop.

    I know this is my opinion and I know based off the trend the industry is headed in I am on the losing end. I just can't change the way I feel.

    SWTOR has done this on several occasions.... Cathar , Makeb both of these were being worked on before f2p and were transitioned over. 

    I would say there's a few things to consider here.

    1.)  Subs are great for a game economically.  It's stable revenue and covers costs easily.  You want to encourage people to sub.

    2.)  Cash shops allow players to spend more money than they would on subscriptions with minimal work by the developer.  I think it is important not to make it P2W, but that generates a lot of money too.  It really needs to focus on non-critical game elements- XP boosts, crafting boosts, cosmetics, mounts, etc.  At least in my opinion.

    3.)  Cash shops allow for a non-expansion development path.  Content can be continuously developed and released as finished rather than having to have enough to justify a $60 expansion purchase.  I think that's really going to be important going forward with the way players have dealt with content in the recent past combined with developer refusal to make extremely difficult content.

    There's definitely a place for both and I think SWTOR does it well with having all the cash shop items sellable in game.

  • marsh9799marsh9799 Member Posts: 100
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by marsh9799

     


    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    Originally posted by marsh9799 I'm very curious to see how they do. The ESO budget is up there with SWTOR's budget. I haven't seen anything on Wildstar. Never underestimate what people will pay for frivolous cosmetic fluff. I think that the hybrid model that SWTOR and many other games have employed is what we're going to see more and more of going forward. You've got to have a cash shop. Some players will just put down way too much money in them. I've seen forum posts with people talking about spending upwards of $2000 on them. That's more than what it would have cost to subscribe to WoW since its release and purchase every single expansion.
    I agree, it seems to be the most effective model for most games. I just wouldn't characterize having cosmetics in a cash shop that subscribers have to pay extra for as a "problem" because it's generally extra fluff which exists for the sole purpose of being sold in the cash shop. It's not like they remove something from the game that was going to be there anyway and turn it into a cash shop exclusive.

     

    I wouldn't characterize that as a problem either. That stuff is highly addictive. When I first started playing League of Legends, I laughed at the idea of someone buying skins... like some 50 odd skins later (and several cosmetic things out of various MMO cash shops including SWTOR) I've changed my mind.

     


    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Originally posted by marsh9799

    Originally posted by dirtyd77

    Originally posted by Tygranir

     
    prof·it ?präfit/ noun noun: profit; plural noun: profits [*]   1 a financial gain, esp. the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.   Something tells me that EA is not going to go bankrupt while making a financial gain. EA kinda knows what they are doing. Moreso than you.
     

    It all depends if you are talking about Gross Profit or Net Profit. 
    And other factors.  For debt, only the interest is an expense while principal repayment is not, non-cash expenses are critical to take into consideration, timing considerations, etc.
    Except EA has told shareholders that SWTOR is currently running at a profit which, by definition, is financial gain. Or are you going to tell me EA is Lying to shareholders and the SEC?
     

     

    Financial gain =! making money.

    And like I said earlier... please show me where I said SWTOR wasn't profitable. I'm pretty sure I said I was confident that it was both profitable and cash flowing. I think the game is making money. I don't think it is making enough money to justify the investment. That's a failed investment. I said that they'd changed the game and prevented it from being an unmitigated disaster, and I'm pretty sure I was complementary about how they turned it around.

    So, you don't think it was successful. That's fine. What you think doesn't change the fact that they have recouped their costs and are currently in the black with SWTOR. To me, and in concourse with the definition of the word, SWTOR is a success.

    1.)  I'm pretty sure that's an improper use of "concourse."

    2.)  That's a terrible definition of success as I've said in multiple other areas and indicates an ignorance of critically important items such as RoI and opportunity cost.

  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741
    Originally posted by marsh9799
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by marsh9799

     


    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    Originally posted by marsh9799 I'm very curious to see how they do. The ESO budget is up there with SWTOR's budget. I haven't seen anything on Wildstar. Never underestimate what people will pay for frivolous cosmetic fluff. I think that the hybrid model that SWTOR and many other games have employed is what we're going to see more and more of going forward. You've got to have a cash shop. Some players will just put down way too much money in them. I've seen forum posts with people talking about spending upwards of $2000 on them. That's more than what it would have cost to subscribe to WoW since its release and purchase every single expansion.
    I agree, it seems to be the most effective model for most games. I just wouldn't characterize having cosmetics in a cash shop that subscribers have to pay extra for as a "problem" because it's generally extra fluff which exists for the sole purpose of being sold in the cash shop. It's not like they remove something from the game that was going to be there anyway and turn it into a cash shop exclusive.

     

    I wouldn't characterize that as a problem either. That stuff is highly addictive. When I first started playing League of Legends, I laughed at the idea of someone buying skins... like some 50 odd skins later (and several cosmetic things out of various MMO cash shops including SWTOR) I've changed my mind.

     


    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Originally posted by marsh9799

    Originally posted by dirtyd77

    Originally posted by Tygranir

     
    prof·it ?präfit/ noun noun: profit; plural noun: profits [*]   1 a financial gain, esp. the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.   Something tells me that EA is not going to go bankrupt while making a financial gain. EA kinda knows what they are doing. Moreso than you.
     

    It all depends if you are talking about Gross Profit or Net Profit. 
    And other factors.  For debt, only the interest is an expense while principal repayment is not, non-cash expenses are critical to take into consideration, timing considerations, etc.
    Except EA has told shareholders that SWTOR is currently running at a profit which, by definition, is financial gain. Or are you going to tell me EA is Lying to shareholders and the SEC?
     

     

    Financial gain =! making money.

    And like I said earlier... please show me where I said SWTOR wasn't profitable. I'm pretty sure I said I was confident that it was both profitable and cash flowing. I think the game is making money. I don't think it is making enough money to justify the investment. That's a failed investment. I said that they'd changed the game and prevented it from being an unmitigated disaster, and I'm pretty sure I was complementary about how they turned it around.

    So, you don't think it was successful. That's fine. What you think doesn't change the fact that they have recouped their costs and are currently in the black with SWTOR. To me, and in concourse with the definition of the word, SWTOR is a success.

    1.)  I'm pretty sure that's an improper use of "concourse."

    2.)  That's a terrible definition of success as I've said in multiple other areas and indicates an ignorance of critically important items such as RoI and opportunity cost.

    con·course

    noun ?kän-?ko?rs, ?kä?- .headword .ld_on_collegiate { margin:10px 0 0 0;padding:0 0 0 19px; width: 405px;}
    .ld_on_collegiate p {margin:0 0 10px 0;padding:0;line-height:20px; }
    .ld_on_collegiate p.bottom_entry {margin:0 0 3px 0;padding:0;line-height:20px;}
    #mwEntryData div.headword .ld_on_collegiate p em,
    .ld_on_collegiate p em { color: black; font-weight: normal; }
    #mwEntryData div.headword + div.d { margin-top: -7px; }
    .ld_on_collegiate .bnote { font-weight: bold; }
    .ld_on_collegiate .sl, .ld_on_collegiate .ssl { font-style: italic; }

     

    : a large open space or hall in a public building

     

     

    Full Definition of CONCOURSE

     

    1

     

    : an act or process of coming together and merging

     

    2

     

    : a meeting produced by voluntary or spontaneous coming together

     

    3

     

    a: an open space where roads or paths meet

     

    b: an open space or hall (as in a railroad terminal) where crowds gather
     
    As my definition of success, and the dictionary's definition of success are in line, there was a concourse in my reasoning and the definition of Success.
     
    If you don't agree with dictionary definitions of words, I can't help you there. By the definition of the word success, SWTOR qualifies as successful.

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  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    So, you don't think it was successful. That's fine. What you think doesn't change the fact that they have recouped their costs and are currently in the black with SWTOR. To me, and in concourse with the definition of the word, SWTOR is a success.

     So, according to you, if I invest 100 dollar and get 101 back, that's a success.

    You clearly don't know much about economics. There's no such thing as a "successful Investment" when you could easily increase the profit by investing the money on something else.

    I have no idead about how MUCH they're earning on SWTOR, but then again, neither do you.

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 711

    I like the hybrid model that Turbine uses (for DDO, never liked LOTRO)

    1) Sub, get access to everything and have the perk of getting the "cash shop" currency to spend (monthly)

    2)  Play for free, but be restricted on what content (and classes/races) you have access to.  Pay money to perma unlock them for your account, and play for free after that.

     

    Another option is not restricting content for F2P, but giving the player benefits/incentives to subscribe.

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  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    So, you don't think it was successful. That's fine. What you think doesn't change the fact that they have recouped their costs and are currently in the black with SWTOR. To me, and in concourse with the definition of the word, SWTOR is a success.

     So, according to you, if I invest 100 dollar and get 101 back, that's a success.

    You clearly don't know much about economics. There's no such thing as a "successful Investment" when you could easily increase the profit by investing the money on something else.

    I have no idead about how MUCH they're earning on SWTOR, but then again, neither do you.

    Well, they claim $139 Mil from the Cartel market for last year. They also state the stabilized subs just under 500,000. 500,000 subs at $15 a month is $90 Mil for the year. I'm sure you can do the rest yourself. And yes, any financial gain is profit. If your goal is profit, then you have achieved your goal, which denotes success. If your goal was a certain level of profit, then you would need to attain that. Only EA knows if they are gaining the success that they are currently aiming for. As we do not have that information, we need to revert to basic definitions. Companies make video games to earn money. If more money is made than is needed to develop, sustain, and progress the game, then it is successful in that endeavor. How successful is subjective.

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  • marsh9799marsh9799 Member Posts: 100
    Originally posted by wildscore12

     

     

    Financial gain =! making money.

    And like I said earlier... please show me where I said SWTOR wasn't profitable. I'm pretty sure I said I was confident that it was both profitable and cash flowing. I think the game is making money. I don't think it is making enough money to justify the investment. That's a failed investment. I said that they'd changed the game and prevented it from being an unmitigated disaster, and I'm pretty sure I was complementary about how they turned it around.

    "YOU don't think" see that's your problem.  YOU think because YOU think it does not justify the investment (YOU have no idea how much money its making) its a failure.  Well YOU have no idea and will not listen to all the people posting about how for example the cartel shop alone brought in $139 Million in revenue.  So how much money would make you happy? 

     

    What YOU think is a justified investment has ZERO to do with the actual success of the game or how any business feels about their investment.  What you are giving us is your business opinion without knowing or accepting any of the given facts. 

    Which facts have I not accepted?

    No, I don't think so.  I've admitted that the numbers don't exist.  However, I've posted up reasonable numbers and expectations.  You and some others have merely engaged in wild speculation and demonstrated complete and total ignorance of finance and business operations.  Your argument has been little more than $139 million is a large number and lots of people play this game.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I've been looking around and it seems to be one of the most successful titles currently running.

     

    It sold nearly 3 million copies at full price, peaked at well over 2 million subscribers (something almost no MMO manages to come anywhere near) and since going f2p with optional subscription has been shown to make large amounts of money from both ($139 million from it's cash shop sales alone last year).  Added to that EA recently renewed the star wars licence and commented it's very happy with how profitable this game is.

     

    Why is it considered a failure when it's one of the biggest and most successful mmo titles currently running?

    Cost $200 million to make and had to transition to F2P to get players to play.  If the game spent a little (ok a lot) less on unneeded voice acting and started off as a F2P title then it would of been a raging success in the eyes of the gaming community.  And hate to break it to you guys on this site.  The average MMORPG.com gamer is not the average gamer.  More like the hipster pretentious gamer.  I say this in all respect.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    So, you don't think it was successful. That's fine. What you think doesn't change the fact that they have recouped their costs and are currently in the black with SWTOR. To me, and in concourse with the definition of the word, SWTOR is a success.

     So, according to you, if I invest 100 dollar and get 101 back, that's a success.

    You clearly don't know much about economics. There's no such thing as a "successful Investment" when you could easily increase the profit by investing the money on something else.

    I have no idead about how MUCH they're earning on SWTOR, but then again, neither do you.

    Well, they claim $139 Mil from the Cartel market for last year. They also state the stabilized subs just under 500,000. 500,000 subs at $15 a month is $90 Mil for the year. I'm sure you can do the rest yourself. And yes, any financial gain is profit. If your goal is profit, then you have achieved your goal, which denotes success. If your goal was a certain level of profit, then you would need to attain that. Only EA knows if they are gaining the success that they are currently aiming for. As we do not have that information, we need to revert to basic definitions. Companies make video games to earn money. If more money is made than is needed to develop, sustain, and progress the game, then it is successful in that endeavor. How successful is subjective.

     

    If the CEO of pretty much any large company told the share holders he/she considered a financial period a success, if they barely made a profit, I can guarantee you he wouldn't be keeping his position for long. It's always about maximizing profit, and never ever accepting a minimal profit as "successful", unless long term Investments are affecting the numbers for said period and haven't paid off yet.

  • marsh9799marsh9799 Member Posts: 100
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    So, you don't think it was successful. That's fine. What you think doesn't change the fact that they have recouped their costs and are currently in the black with SWTOR. To me, and in concourse with the definition of the word, SWTOR is a success.

     So, according to you, if I invest 100 dollar and get 101 back, that's a success.

    You clearly don't know much about economics. There's no such thing as a "successful Investment" when you could easily increase the profit by investing the money on something else.

    I have no idead about how MUCH they're earning on SWTOR, but then again, neither do you.

    Well, they claim $139 Mil from the Cartel market for last year. They also state the stabilized subs just under 500,000. 500,000 subs at $15 a month is $90 Mil for the year. I'm sure you can do the rest yourself. And yes, any financial gain is profit. If your goal is profit, then you have achieved your goal, which denotes success. If your goal was a certain level of profit, then you would need to attain that. Only EA knows if they are gaining the success that they are currently aiming for. As we do not have that information, we need to revert to basic definitions. Companies make video games to earn money. If more money is made than is needed to develop, sustain, and progress the game, then it is successful in that endeavor. How successful is subjective.

    No, they did not claim they made $139 million from the Cartel Market last year.  A third party estimate they had $139 million in revenue from F2P.  After they said the game stabilized at 500k, they reported that they had a 19% decrease in subscription revenue driven primarily by SWTOR.

    Again, no one competent uses your definition of success.  I certainly hope you don't use it for your retirement planning because it will be horrifically unsuccessful.

  • DigitallyEndowedDigitallyEndowed Member Posts: 125

    Overall SWTOR is a successful business venture. It walked the line for sure and has had a definite struggle, but sadly it should be considered...successful…

    As a game however, it is a failure for me, and for many others as well. SWTOR was butchered and abused by its corporate slave masters, left trembling in a dark, muddy ditch, violated and bleeding from every orifice. So cold.

    What once had massive amounts of potential now turns tricks just to survive...

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857

    I recall reading an interview where the EA CFO said in an off the cuff one liner, "SWTOR is profitable" with nothing to follow that statement up with. Well, OK, so he said the game is profitable and I am not going to call anyone a liar so I will assume the game is making money. I have no reason not to believe it is making money.

    But here is what we (or maybe it's just me but I'm willing to hear out) don't know entirely.

    How many hundreds of millions did BW spend on development?

    Beyond that, How much did EA spend to acquire BW?

    I believe it was referenced that Disney is getting 35% from SWTOR.

    In the same interview where EA said the gaem was profitable, it also says SWTOR had a rocky 1st year.

    How much did EA need to spend on the F2P conversion?

    After a rocky 1st year, that means 2013 was really SWTOR's 1st "profitable" year.

    What is the extent of that profit....not revenue...profit?

    How much from the above expenses (if not more) does EA still owe shareholders for this title?

    So, just how much overhead/loss/expense what have you can one profitable year recover?

    I certainly don't have all the facts, but I do find it hard to believe that this game has turned any corners beyond the 1st (They stopped the bleeding) and still has a long way to go to become a success story.

  • dirtyd77dirtyd77 Member UncommonPosts: 383
    Originally posted by Tygranir
     

    Well, they claim $139 Mil from the Cartel market for last year. They also state the stabilized subs just under 500,000. 500,000 subs at $15 a month is $90 Mil for the year. I'm sure you can do the rest yourself. And yes, any financial gain is profit. If your goal is profit, then you have achieved your goal, which denotes success. If your goal was a certain level of profit, then you would need to attain that. Only EA knows if they are gaining the success that they are currently aiming for. As we do not have that information, we need to revert to basic definitions. Companies make video games to earn money. If more money is made than is needed to develop, sustain, and progress the game, then it is successful in that endeavor. How successful is subjective.

    Common sense would tell you that EA is not just going for profit. Yes you are right in saying that we do not know what their goal is however we do know that they have a goal set ( as all companies do) So reverting back to basic definitions is pointless.  

    EA is a publicly traded company so they make video games to earn a return on investment for their shareholders. If that return on investment is not being met at or is failing to meet an adequate rate of return. Then it could be considered a failure based off of opportunity cost. 

  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741
    Originally posted by marsh9799
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    So, you don't think it was successful. That's fine. What you think doesn't change the fact that they have recouped their costs and are currently in the black with SWTOR. To me, and in concourse with the definition of the word, SWTOR is a success.

     So, according to you, if I invest 100 dollar and get 101 back, that's a success.

    You clearly don't know much about economics. There's no such thing as a "successful Investment" when you could easily increase the profit by investing the money on something else.

    I have no idead about how MUCH they're earning on SWTOR, but then again, neither do you.

    Well, they claim $139 Mil from the Cartel market for last year. They also state the stabilized subs just under 500,000. 500,000 subs at $15 a month is $90 Mil for the year. I'm sure you can do the rest yourself. And yes, any financial gain is profit. If your goal is profit, then you have achieved your goal, which denotes success. If your goal was a certain level of profit, then you would need to attain that. Only EA knows if they are gaining the success that they are currently aiming for. As we do not have that information, we need to revert to basic definitions. Companies make video games to earn money. If more money is made than is needed to develop, sustain, and progress the game, then it is successful in that endeavor. How successful is subjective.

    No, they did not claim they made $139 million from the Cartel Market last year.  A third party estimate they had $139 million in revenue from F2P.  After they said the game stabilized at 500k, they reported that they had a 19% decrease in subscription revenue driven primarily by SWTOR.

    Again, no one competent uses your definition of success.  I certainly hope you don't use it for your retirement planning because it will be horrifically unsuccessful.

    M'kay. So you still refuse basic definitions, which is all we have to go by with current information. You choose to see it as a failure, that's fine. The dictionary disagrees with you. I disagree with you. Nothing fruitful can be gained by further interaction with you. Have a great day.

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  • ThornrageThornrage Member UncommonPosts: 659
    Originally posted by Droosteel
    Originally posted by Thornrage
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    It's only considered a failure by two groups of people; those who don't know what the word means, and those whose tinfoil hats are on a little too tight.  There are, as you point out, several sources indicating that the game makes lots of money, likely more money than any other western MMO that isn't WoW, with not one shred of evidence, anywhere, which so much as implies that the game is not profitable.

    The largest segment of the "those who don't know what the word means" crowd appears to be people who can't tell the difference between "failure" and "game we don't like."

    EDIT: You'll notice, pretty much every attempted explanation in this thread of why the game is a "failure" has absolutely nothing to do with success vs. failure, but rather only with things the posters personally dislike about the game.

    This 100%

    SWTOR is NOT a failure, and I don't even like it that much.

    100 %

    Yes and Titanic was NOT a failure either!

    I'm confused.

    You replied with 100% which means you agree then you compare SWTOR to Titanic? Is that what is going on?

    If you are comparing the two, then you are way off. SWTOR is doing just fine with nearly 500k subscribers. Titanic crashed and sunk. No comparison. 

    "I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist

  • TygranirTygranir Member Posts: 741
    Originally posted by dirtyd77
    Originally posted by Tygranir
     

    Well, they claim $139 Mil from the Cartel market for last year. They also state the stabilized subs just under 500,000. 500,000 subs at $15 a month is $90 Mil for the year. I'm sure you can do the rest yourself. And yes, any financial gain is profit. If your goal is profit, then you have achieved your goal, which denotes success. If your goal was a certain level of profit, then you would need to attain that. Only EA knows if they are gaining the success that they are currently aiming for. As we do not have that information, we need to revert to basic definitions. Companies make video games to earn money. If more money is made than is needed to develop, sustain, and progress the game, then it is successful in that endeavor. How successful is subjective.

    Common sense would tell you that EA is not just going for profit. Yes you are right in saying that we do not know what their goal is however we do know that they have a goal set ( as all companies do) So reverting back to basic definitions is pointless.  

    EA is a publicly traded company so they make video games to earn a return on investment for their shareholders. If that return on investment is not being met at or is failing to meet an adequate rate of return. Then it could be considered a failure based off of opportunity cost. 

    Agreed, but in that scenario, a company would cut losses and attempt to recoup. As SWTOR is seeing continued development, and EA has extended their licensing agreement for Star Wars, chances are they are at least close to meeting their projections. This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to make sense to me.

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  • ThornrageThornrage Member UncommonPosts: 659
    Just because you don't like the game, does not mean it was a failure.

    "I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist

This discussion has been closed.