I heard it was launching with more. Being uninterested in their raiding, this doesn't sway me in their direction any.
To me, it feels like they're basically saying piss off to players that aren't interested in their large raids.
Although 1 40 man and 1 20 man raid doesn't exactly sound thrilling if I were interested in their raiding.
Well.. if you're not interested in raiding at all.. WildStar isn't the game you're looking for. It can be a good game for hardcore raiders.. others will be pretty disappointed. Their remaining content is sub-par in my opinion.
I'm sure they want more than just raiders playing the game. No way in hell can a game survive off of only the hardcore raiding community.
Also, what's the point of any other type of endgame content being added if they just want the raiders?
It's pretty much suicide to have a raid or gtfo design. Especially if they're only catering to one type of raider.
Wildstar is still in pre-launch hype mode, reality will settle in eventually. But like others have noted, Carbine do have time to add more to the game and fix what isn't quite right.
I personally don't have faith in them to do any of that, but might as well give them the benefit of the doubt, they've created a very nice themepark.
I wish them all the best and i hope, they can keep up the humor in their game.
The hype you speak about - where is it ?
Really, i see only people talking about TESO - The Old Republic Milking Science here ...
Maybe im a bit disapointed because i applied Wildstar for alpha 3 yeas ago or something and they managed to ignore me successfull all time. But then, about 2 years ago, i saw that guy what i thought was from the Wildstar preview video, so i signed up, wondering, why the name changed to Firefall
So i ended up in Firefall closed alpha and it was fun fun fun
Im not sure if "dungeons" are important to a mmorpg, or if other content that can be made together equals that out.
For example, im playing ArcheAge actually and have not seen a dungeon the first 15 levels, nevertheless im looking forward as there is plenty to do in the sand
Wildstar will not fail over the numbers of available dungeons, im sure.
The only dungeon i wont miss ever is my Band Dungeon Rocks, check it out
I am surprised WildStar gets a pass on this, they are releasing with 4 instance dungeons at launch. How is that acceptable? SWTOR had 12 at launch. GW2 had 8 at launch. Neverwinter had 11 at launch. And all these MMOs were looked upon as MMOs that lacked content and generally were considered sub par. ESO is going to release with 16 instance dungeons. Even WoD which cut back on 5 mans will have 7 at launch.
Before people bring up the 6 adventures they have. Other games have similar type of content, like WoD's several scenarios and ESO's 16 additional public dungeons.
I want WildStar to succeed and I don't think it is a bad game, but I don't see how it is possible with a limited choice of dungeons, which to me is the soul of a MMORPG. I think it has other faults, but this to me might be the biggest one along with the bad combat mechanics of the game.
What is the proper number of dungeons a game must have to meet the MMO requirement?
Also, since Puzzle Pirates, ATITD and EVE Online don't have dungeons, are they soulless MMOs?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by jusomdude Originally posted by zelaexOriginally posted by jusomdudeI heard it was launching with more. Being uninterested in their raiding, this doesn't sway me in their direction any.To me, it feels like they're basically saying piss off to players that aren't interested in their large raids.Although 1 40 man and 1 20 man raid doesn't exactly sound thrilling if I were interested in their raiding.
Well.. if you're not interested in raiding at all.. WildStar isn't the game you're looking for. It can be a good game for hardcore raiders.. others will be pretty disappointed. Their remaining content is sub-par in my opinion.I'm sure they want more than just raiders playing the game. No way in hell can a game survive off of only the hardcore raiding community.
Also, what's the point of any other type of endgame content being added if they just want the raiders?
It's pretty much suicide to have a raid or gtfo design. Especially if they're only catering to one type of raider.
Who said they just want raiders? Game has plenty to do besides raiding. Youre also forgetting that a) game is still months from release and b) by the time you get to 50 and exhaust the current content, new content will likely already been released to keep interest going.
I am just going to wait and see how Wildstar turns out few months after release, but I might not even end up playing Wildstar anyways, I couldn't even stand playing that game for more than few minutes each session. Maybe the game might change come release.
Originally posted by jusomdude The guy I quoted was pretty much saying if I don't want to raid then I shouldn't be playing it suggesting they only want raiders. And I wouldn't call 4 end game dungeons and a few adventures a lot of things to do besides raiding. Pretty much the whole point of this thread.
Theres plenty of things to do outside of raiding at the endgame. And certainly once youve exhausted all the content you like/want/enjoy, just like in any other game you can cancel your sub and come back when more has been added. That is ofcourse if the devs dont add new content quickly enough. The failure of many mmorpgs has been slow content rollouts. Devs have already stated that at least for raids some or all aspects have been designed for quick deployment, so its safe to say that that mentality or design applies elsewhere throughout the game.
The big "if" is how quickly the leveling process will be. If we can get to max level in less than thirty days and consume all the available content then the devs will unlikely have time to keep up. If however the game is more like classic WoW where it took 2-3 months to get to max level, and then much longer to exhaust the existing launch content, then the devs hopefully will keep up.
Ahh yes lack of content, true, true. Because really nobody this day and age counts running around the game world and questing as content or crafting jobs either. A MMORPG today is measured by Raids or Dungeons, and ONLY that.
As if the game simply told you to choose Race and Class and then gifted you max level, max level gear, and pointed to the dungeons and raids. Go greedy, ambitious, spoiled, rotted player and play THE ONLY content I offer you. GO. Its as if because of this disgusting breed of new players that mmorpgs are lobby based shooters revolving around dungeons or raids. Nothing else matters. So in the eyes of this creature, 4 dungeons and whatever few raids it has is indeed few and lacking.
Ahh yes lack of content, true, true. Because really nobody this day and age counts running around the game world and questing as content or crafting jobs either. A MMORPG today is measured by Raids or Dungeons, and ONLY that.
As if the game simply told you to choose Race and Class and then gifted you max level, max level gear, and pointed to the dungeons and raids. Go greedy, ambitious, spoiled, rotted player and play THE ONLY content I offer you. GO. Its as if because of this disgusting breed of new players that mmorpgs are lobby based shooters revolving around dungeons or raids. Nothing else matters. So in the eyes of this creature, 4 dungeons and whatever few raids it has is indeed few and lacking.
The reason why dungeons and raids are mostly considered for content is because that's what players are mostly rewarded for.
If developers can find meaningful rewards for doing other activities at end game then maybe things will change.
This thread only proves 1 of 2 things to me. Either Carbine needs to explain their group content better or people are either terrible trolls or really lazy, to the point that they don't even have the ability to check the front page of the game's website. You know, the one with the giant banner up top that say "Adventures Epic Drop".
There are 4 traditional dungeons and 6 adventure, which are pretty much just dungeons, but with different objectives than normal "run boss to boss until it ends". For level 50, there are 8 total group content dungeons. The 4 traditional dungeons on Veterans (heroic) or the 4 adventures not tied to a faction on Veteran. So while leveling you have 10 group content experience and at max level you have 8 harder versions. Before anyone cries "NDA BREAKER!!!", this is explained on the front page of the website. Seriously, I understand if you want to hype ESO up, but please at least do basic research on games you are poorly attempting to bash.
Oh and anyone complaining about there only being 2 raids, WoW launched with only 2 raids, MC and BWL. WoD will only be launching with 2 raids, Blackrock Foundry and Highmaul. Both games are bringing World Bosses back, so I guess those kind of count. Please find something better to complain about, there are plenty of much more valid reason to complain about the game.
I would bet all the tea in china that the next truly successful MMORPG (2 million + Subs maintained) will launch with approximately 0 instances, and maintain this level of instanced dungeons.
Instances are a lazy developers crutch.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
It doesn't matter how many dungeon there are. That's silly. All that matter is how much content there are and things to do. There is a lot more content here than in games like GW2. Get real.
Originally posted by evilastro As others have said, adventures are essentially dungeons with multiple paths. So thats basically 10 dungeons, 2 large raids and a bunch of small group shiphand missions. The adventures and dungeons are far bigger than ESOs offerings at launch.
But other games have dozens of activities like the ship hand missions and adventures. The one adventure they showed on the live stream was basically defending an object against scores of mobs coming at it. It was more of a horde mode from Gears of War than an actual dungeon of any kind.
It seems like the game is launching with 4 instance dungeons and the adventures seem like glorified group quests.
I hope for their sake it is enough, because it just doesn't seem like it is.
I actually can't think of any mmorpg with a horde mode/tower defense mechanic in it.
The problem of dungeons and raids is that they're beyond overdone, atleast trinity based ones, which sadly, for me, WS has.
You know, besides dungeons, and speaking of horse mode, i'd love a customazible tower defense instance with those Warplots, that scale between 5 - 40 players and you have to set up the defenses and protect objectives against invading mobs and raids bosses. For me, that'd be way more interesting than dungeons.
Originally posted by DEAD.line Originally posted by SoMuchMassOriginally posted by evilastroAs others have said, adventures are essentially dungeons with multiple paths. So thats basically 10 dungeons, 2 large raids and a bunch of small group shiphand missions. The adventures and dungeons are far bigger than ESOs offerings at launch.
But other games have dozens of activities like the ship hand missions and adventures. The one adventure they showed on the live stream was basically defending an object against scores of mobs coming at it. It was more of a horde mode from Gears of War than an actual dungeon of any kind. It seems like the game is launching with 4 instance dungeons and the adventures seem like glorified group quests.I hope for their sake it is enough, because it just doesn't seem like it is.I actually can't think of any mmorpg with a horde mode/tower defense mechanic in it.
The problem of dungeons and raids is that they're beyond overdone, atleast trinity based ones, which sadly, for me, WS has.
You know, besides dungeons, and speaking of horse mode, i'd love a customazible tower defense instance with those Warplots, that scale between 5 - 40 players and you have to set up the defenses and protect objectives against invading mobs and raids bosses. For me, that'd be way more interesting than dungeons.
40 man tower defense in an mmorpg? .... oh wow, that would be sexy. Really sexy. If the tower defense adventure works out well I see no reason why they couldnt scale it up.
FFXIV: Released with 16 dungeons. 3 Primal Fights (normal and hard modes). and an 8 man (4 boss) raid.
When 2.2 releases at the end of the month (~6-7 months after release) it will have,
22 Dungeons
6-7 Primal Fights each with Story/Hard/Extreme Mode (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, King Moogle Mog, Ultima and maybe Gilgamesh).
2- Eight Man raids (Coil turns 1-5 and then 6-9).
1 Twenty-four man raid.
I'm using this as a frame of reference. If you can't pump out content 3-4 months at a time, your game is going to die. FFXIV has the right idea.
Wildstar, no matter how great it is for the first month, will DIE, unless it offers more content.
The leveling experience doesn't matter becasue ALL games have that. Some people enjoy the ride, some people race to the top. A game that offers both has a chance to survive. WoW does that, so does GW2 with the great leveling experience and 2 week updates.
I'm really shocked at there are only 4 dungeons. A lof of people LOVE running dungeons as a diversion to grinding xp with quests or open world content. You need a mix of both.
I'm using this as a frame of reference. If you can't pump out content 3-4 months at a time, your game is going to die. FFXIV has the right idea.
Wildstar, no matter how great it is for the first month, will DIE, unless it offers more content.
The leveling experience doesn't matter becasue ALL games have that.
A game that offers both has a chance to survive. WoW does that, so does GW2 with the great leveling experience and 2 week updates.
I'm really shocked at there are only 4 dungeons. A lof of people LOVE running dungeons as a diversion to grinding xp with quests or open world content. You need a mix of both.
You're really all over the map here, saying "the leveling experience doesn't matter", and then right after that saying GW2 has a great leveling experience...
then you harp on 4 dungeons, and leave out the adventures and solo story dungeons and "heroic modes" which Wow also does.
then you talk about content updates of 3-4 months, and ignore that Wildstar has said content updates 3-4 weeks.
So everything you talked about in your post, they are doing, but you are ignoring all of that information....it really stands out when people just post nonsense.
I'm using this as a frame of reference. If you can't pump out content 3-4 months at a time, your game is going to die. FFXIV has the right idea.
Wildstar, no matter how great it is for the first month, will DIE, unless it offers more content.
The leveling experience doesn't matter becasue ALL games have that.
A game that offers both has a chance to survive. WoW does that, so does GW2 with the great leveling experience and 2 week updates.
I'm really shocked at there are only 4 dungeons. A lof of people LOVE running dungeons as a diversion to grinding xp with quests or open world content. You need a mix of both.
You're really all over the map here, saying "the leveling experience doesn't matter", and then right after that saying GW2 has a great leveling experience...
then you harp on 4 dungeons, and leave out the adventures and solo story dungeons and "heroic modes" which Wow also does.
then you talk about content updates of 3-4 months, and ignore that Wildstar has said content updates 3-4 weeks.
So everything you talked about in your post, they are doing, but you are ignoring all of that information....it really stands out when people just post nonsense.
You either misunderstood my post or I didn't do a good job of explaining myself... probably a mixture of both.
The leveling experience matters, but most people are in the honeymoon phase after the first month. When they shiny coating wears off from a new game, you're left with people at level cap with not much to do, or, people quit the game before they get there.
GW2 did a good job of providing a good leveling experience with a mixture of dynamic content, crafting xp going towards leveling, dungeons and pvp. People enjoyed getting to the end and a lot of people still love the living story and the 2 week content patches.
Many people love dungeons, if Wildstar is only offering 4, then they need a LOT of alternative ways of leveling up a class to break up the boredom. If it's a quest hub game, that's going to get old really quickly. The more ways you offer people to level up the better off you are. In terms of all modern mmo's 4 is the lowest number of dungeons at release i've ever seen.
Comments
I'm sure they want more than just raiders playing the game. No way in hell can a game survive off of only the hardcore raiding community.
Also, what's the point of any other type of endgame content being added if they just want the raiders?
It's pretty much suicide to have a raid or gtfo design. Especially if they're only catering to one type of raider.
I wish them all the best and i hope, they can keep up the humor in their game.
The hype you speak about - where is it ?
Really, i see only people talking about TESO - The Old Republic Milking Science here ...
Maybe im a bit disapointed because i applied Wildstar for alpha 3 yeas ago or something and they managed to ignore me successfull all time. But then, about 2 years ago, i saw that guy what i thought was from the Wildstar preview video, so i signed up, wondering, why the name changed to Firefall
So i ended up in Firefall closed alpha and it was fun fun fun
Im not sure if "dungeons" are important to a mmorpg, or if other content that can be made together equals that out.
For example, im playing ArcheAge actually and have not seen a dungeon the first 15 levels, nevertheless im looking forward as there is plenty to do in the sand
Wildstar will not fail over the numbers of available dungeons, im sure.
The only dungeon i wont miss ever is my Band Dungeon Rocks, check it out
What is the proper number of dungeons a game must have to meet the MMO requirement?
Also, since Puzzle Pirates, ATITD and EVE Online don't have dungeons, are they soulless MMOs?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm sure they want more than just raiders playing the game. No way in hell can a game survive off of only the hardcore raiding community.
Also, what's the point of any other type of endgame content being added if they just want the raiders?
It's pretty much suicide to have a raid or gtfo design. Especially if they're only catering to one type of raider.
Who said they just want raiders? Game has plenty to do besides raiding. Youre also forgetting that a) game is still months from release and b) by the time you get to 50 and exhaust the current content, new content will likely already been released to keep interest going.
As far as we know right now there is one 20 man and one 40 man raid for launch. Theyre also supposed to be large, long, hard and dynamic.
The guy I quoted was pretty much saying if I don't want to raid then I shouldn't be playing it suggesting they only want raiders.
And I wouldn't call 4 end game dungeons and a few adventures a lot of things to do besides raiding. Pretty much the whole point of this thread.
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Theres plenty of things to do outside of raiding at the endgame. And certainly once youve exhausted all the content you like/want/enjoy, just like in any other game you can cancel your sub and come back when more has been added. That is ofcourse if the devs dont add new content quickly enough. The failure of many mmorpgs has been slow content rollouts. Devs have already stated that at least for raids some or all aspects have been designed for quick deployment, so its safe to say that that mentality or design applies elsewhere throughout the game.
The big "if" is how quickly the leveling process will be. If we can get to max level in less than thirty days and consume all the available content then the devs will unlikely have time to keep up. If however the game is more like classic WoW where it took 2-3 months to get to max level, and then much longer to exhaust the existing launch content, then the devs hopefully will keep up.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
You seem to make a lot of decisions based on what random people tell you, is that so you can safely blame them if you make the wrong decision?
Ahh yes lack of content, true, true. Because really nobody this day and age counts running around the game world and questing as content or crafting jobs either. A MMORPG today is measured by Raids or Dungeons, and ONLY that.
As if the game simply told you to choose Race and Class and then gifted you max level, max level gear, and pointed to the dungeons and raids. Go greedy, ambitious, spoiled, rotted player and play THE ONLY content I offer you. GO. Its as if because of this disgusting breed of new players that mmorpgs are lobby based shooters revolving around dungeons or raids. Nothing else matters. So in the eyes of this creature, 4 dungeons and whatever few raids it has is indeed few and lacking.
The reason why dungeons and raids are mostly considered for content is because that's what players are mostly rewarded for.
If developers can find meaningful rewards for doing other activities at end game then maybe things will change.
This thread only proves 1 of 2 things to me. Either Carbine needs to explain their group content better or people are either terrible trolls or really lazy, to the point that they don't even have the ability to check the front page of the game's website. You know, the one with the giant banner up top that say "Adventures Epic Drop".
There are 4 traditional dungeons and 6 adventure, which are pretty much just dungeons, but with different objectives than normal "run boss to boss until it ends". For level 50, there are 8 total group content dungeons. The 4 traditional dungeons on Veterans (heroic) or the 4 adventures not tied to a faction on Veteran. So while leveling you have 10 group content experience and at max level you have 8 harder versions. Before anyone cries "NDA BREAKER!!!", this is explained on the front page of the website. Seriously, I understand if you want to hype ESO up, but please at least do basic research on games you are poorly attempting to bash.
Oh and anyone complaining about there only being 2 raids, WoW launched with only 2 raids, MC and BWL. WoD will only be launching with 2 raids, Blackrock Foundry and Highmaul. Both games are bringing World Bosses back, so I guess those kind of count. Please find something better to complain about, there are plenty of much more valid reason to complain about the game.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
I actually can't think of any mmorpg with a horde mode/tower defense mechanic in it.
The problem of dungeons and raids is that they're beyond overdone, atleast trinity based ones, which sadly, for me, WS has.
You know, besides dungeons, and speaking of horse mode, i'd love a customazible tower defense instance with those Warplots, that scale between 5 - 40 players and you have to set up the defenses and protect objectives against invading mobs and raids bosses. For me, that'd be way more interesting than dungeons.
I actually can't think of any mmorpg with a horde mode/tower defense mechanic in it.
The problem of dungeons and raids is that they're beyond overdone, atleast trinity based ones, which sadly, for me, WS has.
You know, besides dungeons, and speaking of horse mode, i'd love a customazible tower defense instance with those Warplots, that scale between 5 - 40 players and you have to set up the defenses and protect objectives against invading mobs and raids bosses. For me, that'd be way more interesting than dungeons.
40 man tower defense in an mmorpg? .... oh wow, that would be sexy. Really sexy. If the tower defense adventure works out well I see no reason why they couldnt scale it up.
instanced dungeons are boring. it's 2014. why don't developers develop something else?
FFXIV: Released with 16 dungeons. 3 Primal Fights (normal and hard modes). and an 8 man (4 boss) raid.
When 2.2 releases at the end of the month (~6-7 months after release) it will have,
22 Dungeons
6-7 Primal Fights each with Story/Hard/Extreme Mode (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, King Moogle Mog, Ultima and maybe Gilgamesh).
2- Eight Man raids (Coil turns 1-5 and then 6-9).
1 Twenty-four man raid.
I'm using this as a frame of reference. If you can't pump out content 3-4 months at a time, your game is going to die. FFXIV has the right idea.
Wildstar, no matter how great it is for the first month, will DIE, unless it offers more content.
The leveling experience doesn't matter becasue ALL games have that. Some people enjoy the ride, some people race to the top. A game that offers both has a chance to survive. WoW does that, so does GW2 with the great leveling experience and 2 week updates.
I'm really shocked at there are only 4 dungeons. A lof of people LOVE running dungeons as a diversion to grinding xp with quests or open world content. You need a mix of both.
You're really all over the map here, saying "the leveling experience doesn't matter", and then right after that saying GW2 has a great leveling experience...
then you harp on 4 dungeons, and leave out the adventures and solo story dungeons and "heroic modes" which Wow also does.
then you talk about content updates of 3-4 months, and ignore that Wildstar has said content updates 3-4 weeks.
So everything you talked about in your post, they are doing, but you are ignoring all of that information....it really stands out when people just post nonsense.
You either misunderstood my post or I didn't do a good job of explaining myself... probably a mixture of both.
The leveling experience matters, but most people are in the honeymoon phase after the first month. When they shiny coating wears off from a new game, you're left with people at level cap with not much to do, or, people quit the game before they get there.
GW2 did a good job of providing a good leveling experience with a mixture of dynamic content, crafting xp going towards leveling, dungeons and pvp. People enjoyed getting to the end and a lot of people still love the living story and the 2 week content patches.
Many people love dungeons, if Wildstar is only offering 4, then they need a LOT of alternative ways of leveling up a class to break up the boredom. If it's a quest hub game, that's going to get old really quickly. The more ways you offer people to level up the better off you are. In terms of all modern mmo's 4 is the lowest number of dungeons at release i've ever seen.
Good luck to wildstar....
Instanced dungeons are bad as opposed to what? Open World zerg dungeons?
What is a viable alternative to instanced dungeons for open world play with large populations of people?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
again, it's been pointed out many times, not only in this thread but from other sources, it isn't just 4.
So either you are refusing to read.....or you are intentionally ignoring the information you have read, either one is bad.