Why is this game considered a failure?

marsh9799 · March 2014

Originally posted by Hulluck
Originally posted by lizardbones
I'm going to respond to several things at once, but I'm not going to try and multi-quote people with the ridiculously long post trails.

@marsh9799 - You do not have a reasonable estimate of what it cost to make SWToR. If you did, it wouldn't vary by as much as a hundred million dollars depending on who you talk to. Nobody knows how much SWToR cost to build except EA, and they aren't telling anyone. You stated that part of the reason for your belief that SWToR is a failure is the cost of the game. It's your first reason in the list, after the royalty being paid on the IP. "Additionally, the royalty they're paying to Lucas or maybe Disney now is a massive blow to the economics of the game. The game is a failure primarily because of the cost, development time, and expectation." (marsh9799) You don't even know what the royalty payment is, so there's no way for you to judge whether or not it's massive. You are making sweeping financial judgements with no actual numbers other than the revenue numbers from their cash shop last year, which is itself an (educated) estimate by SuperData Research. We have your judgement, based on no numbers versus statements from EA saying the game is not only profitable, but doing well. They have the numbers, so they are more likely correct. They are the ones who may suffer consequences if they are fibbing about their stuff.

We do have some reasonable estimates. They come from investment companies who do this for a living. I don't think the costs vary as much as you think they do. On the royalty, this is the figures determined by investment companies who do this for a living and how would you not expect Lucas to get a 30% royalty minimum here? I haven't seen any statements from EA indicating the game is doing well.

Additionally, if you look at software development in general, something this large that is developed over six years is going to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Not only that, but consider this. EA is a fairly large company. All that money they are spending on SWToR could be spent on some other project. They aren't spending that money anywhere else, so unless they are irrational, the money they are spending on SWToR is the best possible use of that money. Any alternative use is "next best". When they tell investors that the game is profitable, they mean not only is it making more money than what they are spending on it, it's making at least as much money as their next best alternative, probably more. That next best alternative is probably another version of Call of Duty or whatever their war based FPS game is. They are also funneling more money into the game for additional development and are going to expand the IP because of their deal with Disney. There is no reason to do this unless they are going to make money off the deal somewhere, more money than they would spending all that money on something else.

I dealt with this elsewhere. This is a sunk cost issue. The development costs are front loaded and become irrelevant after the game has been released in determining whether or not the game continues running. This is why games like the original Everquest and LOTRO are still running. You'd never develop a game for that size player base. Once you have developed a game already, it is operationally profitable to have a player base that size. As a side note, a lot of people have mentioned the continued game development. Relative to most MMOs, the additional content that has been added is extremely trivial. Galactic Starfighter is practically a separate game. I don't even know if you can really call it true additional content for SWTOR in any real meaningful way. They are expanding the Star Wars IP pretty much through new games exclusively. The plan for 2014 look pretty shallow (although, the PvP flashpoints could be really awesome).

Actually, that's it. Apparently I have a couple different threads mixed together in my head. Sorry, I'm only responding to marsh9799 in this thread, and I'm not quoting anything except that one little bit.

EA is also fairly well known to not hesitate for to long and just pull the plug on what they think is a failure/under-achiever. Something that should be so obvious to people. The very thing's people partially hate EA for. Yet SWTOR is still kicking. I don't know how it's doing but clearly it's not nearly as bad off as a lot on this site have been leading people to believe for a year. I still haven't looked at the game yet. Said I was going to awhile back in a thread I made about pets.

Again, this is an issue of what to do post-development. You have the game. You've already paid development costs. Hypothetically, let's say you developed a $2 billion dollar game that makes $200 million a year. That's a huge failure. However, you probably aren't going to abandon the game. The economics of continuing a produced game and creating a game are two completely separate issues.

A good additional example can be pulled from the movie industry. If a company releases a movie that is under performing, they don't yank it from theaters. They've paid for the movie. They've spent the bulk of what they'll spend on marketing. They let it run its course.

This is an issue of sunk costs.

Sephiroso · March 2014

Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by marsh9799
So, a game that bears much, if not all, of the responsibility for a 52% drop in stock price that from which it takes more than a year and a half to recover? Failure.

Total speculation.

Riiight, total speculation. Totally can't be true given the rest of his post you conveniently didn't read.

marsh9799 · March 2014

Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by marsh9799
So, a game that bears much, if not all, of the responsibility for a 52% drop in stock price that from which it takes more than a year and a half to recover? Failure.

Total speculation.

No, there is good evidence to support it.

EA releases Battlefield 3 that October which sold something like $10 million copies in the first month destroying EA's records. Stock price starts dropping shortly before the release of SWTOR, but we were getting bad/cautionary news about the game before the NDA was even lifted.

EA releases extremely successful and anticipated Mass Effect 3. Stock continues to plummet.

EA's financials were very good for the period.

Expectations for this game were huge. The amount of money spent for SWTOR was huge. I think the $500 million number is right (which was an all inclusive number including marketing and assigning a portion of the cost of the Bioware buyout).

EA's stock price didn't just randomly drop...

Phry · March 2014

Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by marsh9799
So, a game that bears much, if not all, of the responsibility for a 52% drop in stock price that from which it takes more than a year and a half to recover? Failure.

Total speculation.

No, there is good evidence to support it.

EA releases Battlefield 3 that October which sold something like $10 million copies in the first month destroying EA's records. Stock price starts dropping shortly before the release of SWTOR, but we were getting bad/cautionary news about the game before the NDA was even lifted.

EA releases extremely successful and anticipated Mass Effect 3. Stock continues to plummet.

EA's financials were very good for the period.

Expectations for this game were huge. The amount of money spent for SWTOR was huge. I think the $500 million number is right (which was an all inclusive number including marketing and assigning a portion of the cost of the Bioware buyout).

EA's stock price didn't just randomly drop...

You are just guessing, which is fine, but you are definitely wrong about SW;TOR, EA would have closed it down if the game was not profitable, they have done it before, and i have no doubt they would do it again, if you think otherwise then you clearly have very little knowledge of EA's history with MMO's. But thats the problem with guesses that are made with little understanding of the subject in question. As for EA's stock value, all stocks fluctuate in value, as they are affected by so many factors including speculation, which can be a driving force either way, if you don't think that happens then take a closer look at currency speculation. EA is involved in quite a few games, they have very little interest in development teams who don't deliver, or on games that don't perform well. That they might or might not get burned by Titanfall for instance, the game is something of a gamble, its coming out on xbox1 and 360 and the PC, but it also involves dlc content (season passes) which they are probably going to be counting on for 'profit margins' MS is also hoping it will help sell XB1's its a gamble, and may have some effect on stock values in both companies, but that doesn't mean that the game won't be 'proitable' just that the amount of profit is questionable. You might not like it or even agree, but for the time being, SW;TOR is profitable, you can be sure when it no longer is, that EA will do something about it.

marsh9799 · March 2014

Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by marsh9799
So, a game that bears much, if not all, of the responsibility for a 52% drop in stock price that from which it takes more than a year and a half to recover? Failure.

Total speculation.

No, there is good evidence to support it.

EA releases Battlefield 3 that October which sold something like $10 million copies in the first month destroying EA's records. Stock price starts dropping shortly before the release of SWTOR, but we were getting bad/cautionary news about the game before the NDA was even lifted.

EA releases extremely successful and anticipated Mass Effect 3. Stock continues to plummet.

EA's financials were very good for the period.

Expectations for this game were huge. The amount of money spent for SWTOR was huge. I think the $500 million number is right (which was an all inclusive number including marketing and assigning a portion of the cost of the Bioware buyout).

EA's stock price didn't just randomly drop...

You are just guessing, which is fine, but you are definitely wrong about SW;TOR, EA would have closed it down if the game was not profitable, they have done it before, and i have no doubt they would do it again, if you think otherwise then you clearly have very little knowledge of EA's history with MMO's. But thats the problem with guesses that are made with little understanding of the subject in question. As for EA's stock value, all stocks fluctuate in value, as they are affected by so many factors including speculation, which can be a driving force either way, if you don't think that happens then take a closer look at currency speculation. EA is involved in quite a few games, they have very little interest in development teams who don't deliver, or on games that don't perform well. That they might or might not get burned by Titanfall for instance, the game is something of a gamble, its coming out on xbox1 and 360 and the PC, but it also involves dlc content (season passes) which they are probably going to be counting on for 'profit margins' MS is also hoping it will help sell XB1's its a gamble, and may have some effect on stock values in both companies, but that doesn't mean that the game won't be 'proitable' just that the amount of profit is questionable. You might not like it or even agree, but for the time being, SW;TOR is profitable, you can be sure when it no longer is, that EA will do something about it.

You do realize I said the game was profitable? In the post you quoted, I was specifically talking about the difference between the economics behind making a game which is based on RoI expectations and supporting a game which is based on operational profits / cash flows.

I have never said that SWTOR is not profitable. I have repeatedly said profitable / not-profitable is an insufficient measure of success.

Additionally, the NASDAQ and some, not all of course, gaming companies did not track with EA's fall. There was certainly nothing with currency to justify a drop of anything close to that magnitude.

asmkm22 · March 2014

Originally posted by Phry

You are just guessing, which is fine, but you are definitely wrong about SW;TOR, EA would have closed it down if the game was not profitable, they have done it before, and i have no doubt they would do it again, if you think otherwise then you clearly have very little knowledge of EA's history with MMO's. But thats the problem with guesses that are made with little understanding of the subject in question. As for EA's stock value, all stocks fluctuate in value, as they are affected by so many factors including speculation, which can be a driving force either way, if you don't think that happens then take a closer look at currency speculation. EA is involved in quite a few games, they have very little interest in development teams who don't deliver, or on games that don't perform well. That they might or might not get burned by Titanfall for instance, the game is something of a gamble, its coming out on xbox1 and 360 and the PC, but it also involves dlc content (season passes) which they are probably going to be counting on for 'profit margins' MS is also hoping it will help sell XB1's its a gamble, and may have some effect on stock values in both companies, but that doesn't mean that the game won't be 'proitable' just that the amount of profit is questionable. You might not like it or even agree, but for the time being, SW;TOR is profitable, you can be sure when it no longer is, that EA will do something about it.

I'm not convinced they would have shut it down simply for being unprofitable. They past the point of no return long before it was released. Not to mention that IP contracts like that tend to include clauses stipulating that the game must shipped and supported properly for some kind of duration. Failure to do so would just invite even more penalty costs.

So yeah, the game could be a financial train wreck and still keep going. I actually doubt that they've even recouped the dev costs yet. They always said the game would be profitable at 500k subs, but they never said how long it would take for that to happen. For all we know, that number could have been spread out over the length of IP contract as a worst-case scenario for shareholders to gauge risk or something.

Anyway, one thing is certain. The SWtOR team didn't suffer massive layoffs and retirements right before going F2P less than a year after release if they truly were profitable in the slightest. That kind of course correction happens when shit hits the fan.

Droosteel · March 2014

Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by marsh9799
So, a game that bears much, if not all, of the responsibility for a 52% drop in stock price that from which it takes more than a year and a half to recover? Failure.

Total speculation.

No, there is good evidence to support it.

EA releases Battlefield 3 that October which sold something like $10 million copies in the first month destroying EA's records. Stock price starts dropping shortly before the release of SWTOR, but we were getting bad/cautionary news about the game before the NDA was even lifted.

EA releases extremely successful and anticipated Mass Effect 3. Stock continues to plummet.

EA's financials were very good for the period.

Expectations for this game were huge. The amount of money spent for SWTOR was huge. I think the $500 million number is right (which was an all inclusive number including marketing and assigning a portion of the cost of the Bioware buyout).

EA's stock price didn't just randomly drop...

EA would have closed it down if the game was not profitable, they have done it before,

You might not like it or even agree, but for the time being, SW;TOR is profitable, you can be sure when it no longer is, that EA will do something about it.

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost.

They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

jpnz · March 2014

Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost.

They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million.

Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL!

Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!

Droosteel · March 2014

This therad gets more and more hilarious as The Musco brigade tries (more and more desperatel to prove that Titanic was NOT a failure rofl.

But anyone with 2 live braincells can easily see through PR spins The Musco brigade tries more and more desperately.

Oh, and logic The Musco brigade is fabulous: EA wins golden poo award few years in a row and exactly THAT makes it BEST company in the world. rofl right

Droosteel · March 2014

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost.

They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million.

Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL!

Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!

200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl

No? hahahahahaha

Game didnt sell all too well (only 2 million at launch) and was losing subscribers fastest in the hostory of MMOs. Doesnt matter 300/500, but 300 was budget and it was mentioned several times they went over that so do your own math.

jpnz · March 2014

Originally posted by Droosteel
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost.

They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million.

Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL!

Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!

200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl

No? hahahahahaha

So... where's the official EA numbers for SWTOR? 500 Million did you say?

No numbers huh? ROFL!

At least that 200 Million came from a financial source.

Just... /FACEPALM

Whatever you are smoking has to be some good stuff so please share it.

marsh9799 · March 2014

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost.

They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million.

Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL!

Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!

200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl

No? hahahahahaha

So... where's the official EA numbers for SWTOR? 500 Million did you say?

No numbers huh? ROFL!

At least that 200 Million came from a financial source.

Just... /FACEPALM

Whatever you are smoking has to be some good stuff so please share it.

The $500 million comes from a financial source and is not comparable to the $200 million number. Analysts estimated the production costs for the game were between $200 and $300 million with another $100 million in advertising. The $500 million takes into account some of the Bioware acquisition.

skyline385 · March 2014

Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost.

They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million.

Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL!

Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!

200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl

No? hahahahahaha

So... where's the official EA numbers for SWTOR? 500 Million did you say?

No numbers huh? ROFL!

At least that 200 Million came from a financial source.

Just... /FACEPALM

Whatever you are smoking has to be some good stuff so please share it.

The $500 million comes from a financial source and is not comparable to the $200 million number. Analysts estimated the production costs for the game were between $200 and $300 million with another $100 million in advertising. The $500 million takes into account some of the Bioware acquisition.

Since you failed to share any sources, atleast share that stuff you are smoking. It seems darn good.

skyline385 · March 2014

ITT: Armchair Economists "estimating" numbers without any sources.

marsh9799 · March 2014

Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost. They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.
So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million. Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL! Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!
200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl No? hahahahahaha
So... where's the official EA numbers for SWTOR? 500 Million did you say? No numbers huh? ROFL! At least that 200 Million came from a financial source. Just... /FACEPALM Whatever you are smoking has to be some good stuff so please share it.
The $500 million comes from a financial source and is not comparable to the $200 million number. Analysts estimated the production costs for the game were between $200 and $300 million with another $100 million in advertising. The $500 million takes into account some of the Bioware acquisition.
Since you failed to share any sources, atleast share that stuff you are smoking. It seems darn good.

/eyeroll

https://www.google.com/#q=SWTOR+total+cost+$500+million

It's so hard man...

For the completely inept.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-riccitiello-aims-high-2012-01-17?pagenumber=2#

skyline385 · March 2014

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Droosteel

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost. They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million. Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL! Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!

200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl No? hahahahahaha

So... where's the official EA numbers for SWTOR? 500 Million did you say? No numbers huh? ROFL! At least that 200 Million came from a financial source. Just... /FACEPALM Whatever you are smoking has to be some good stuff so please share it.

The $500 million comes from a financial source and is not comparable to the $200 million number. Analysts estimated the production costs for the game were between $200 and $300 million with another $100 million in advertising. The $500 million takes into account some of the Bioware acquisition.

Since you failed to share any sources, atleast share that stuff you are smoking. It seems darn good.

/eyeroll

https://www.google.com/#q=SWTOR+total+cost+$500+million

It's so hard man...

For the completely inept.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-riccitiello-aims-high-2012-01-17?pagenumber=2#

So apparently, one Analyst's estimate becomes fact now, is it? And the fact that most analysts put it at 100-300M is meant to be ignored. Classic haters.

DocBrody · March 2014

a quick reminder:

http://www.vg247.com/2012/08/01/pachter-backs-swtor-for-50-million-monthly-users/

for the lulz...

look EA and their analysts gambled high with their predictions, and they lost.

As I said above, it is their own failure to come up with these ridiculous predictions.

Remember the content plans? "Hundreds of planets" will be added in the next years.

Yeah right, they added.. ONE.. Makeb.

Even if you count in Oricon which is basically a daily area, the total number of planets added in two years is.. TWO.

It all just doesn´t add up

Droosteel · March 2014

Originally posted by DocBrody
a quick reminder:

http://www.vg247.com/2012/08/01/pachter-backs-swtor-for-50-million-monthly-users/

for the lulz...

look EA and their analysts gambled high with their predictions, and they lost.

As I said above, it is their own failure to come up with these ridiculous predictions.

Remember the content plans? "Hundreds of planets" will be added in the next years.

Yeah right, they added.. ONE.. Makeb.

Even if you count in Oricon which is basically a daily area, the total number of planets added in two years is.. TWO.

It all just doesn´t add up

Thats because teh game is sooooooooooo successful that it doesnt need to add much content at all!

It goes along:

"because its SUCH A SUCCESS it went down form 216 to 17 servers"

"because its SUCH A SUCCESS it had to fire 2/3 of its core staff"

"because its SUCH A SUCCESS almost whole game management at BW and CEO were sacked"

"because it SUCH A SUCCESS it had to stop all content production just to go F2P in under a year"

"because its SUCH A SUCCESS it had to relable free patch to "expansion" and charge even subscribers for it"

"because its SUCH A SUCCESS most of what you get is recolored launch stuff"

"because its SUCH A SUCCESS EA is embarassed/dont want to show any SWTOR numbers and deals with "we have UNDER 500k subs" phrases"

........

The Musco brigade. Gotta love 'em lol

skyline385 · March 2014

Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Droosteel

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost. They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million. Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL! Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!

200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl No? hahahahahaha

So... where's the official EA numbers for SWTOR? 500 Million did you say? No numbers huh? ROFL! At least that 200 Million came from a financial source. Just... /FACEPALM Whatever you are smoking has to be some good stuff so please share it.

The $500 million comes from a financial source and is not comparable to the $200 million number. Analysts estimated the production costs for the game were between $200 and $300 million with another $100 million in advertising. The $500 million takes into account some of the Bioware acquisition.

Since you failed to share any sources, atleast share that stuff you are smoking. It seems darn good.

/eyeroll

https://www.google.com/#q=SWTOR+total+cost+$500+million

It's so hard man...

For the completely inept.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-riccitiello-aims-high-2012-01-17?pagenumber=2#

So apparently, one Analyst's estimate becomes fact now, is it? And the fact that most analysts put it at 100-300M is meant to be ignored. Classic haters.

Actually, you've demonstrated an inability to read English or a willful ignorance of those numbers. As I said before, the $500 million number is not comparable to the production numbers. It is not a production cost estimate.

Classic cult fanboy.

From the market watch article

“I think it’s safe to say that the total all-in investment in ‘Star Wars’ is probably approaching half a billion dollars,” Creutz says.

That's it.

From the original VG article, the full line reads

The one thing that everyone can agree on is that the game was expensive, and while most analysts are estimating somewhere between $100-$300 million, analyst Doug Creutz suspects that Electronic Arts has sunk nearly half a billion dollars into the project.

So unless your English comprehension is poor, the line clearly reads that all the estimates are for the total. Nowhere does it state that the 100M-300M was only for developement and that 500M is with everything.

But, on gamesradar i found this,

http://www.gamesradar.com/analysts-eas-stake-old-republic-probably-approaches-500m/

Speaking to Market Watch, analyst Doug Creutz estimates that Electronic Arts likely invested around $500 million dollars on Star Wars: The Old Republic, factoring in development costs and EA CEO John Riccitiello’s push to acquire the game’s developer, BioWare/Pandemic.

This is ridiculous. EA acquired Bioware for a variety of Game IPs and using that as an excuse to increase the costs just reeks of sensationalism and poor journalism.

eGumball · March 2014

Because of the hype and the title itself, the expectations became too high and fell apart for most people via release. Most the sales were based on the hype and therefore can't really be counted as a measure of success. Though it is not wrong if some may love it or believe it is successful because it is all a matter of opinion.

To be more specific, the only game that was considered successful Is Guild Wars 2 since WoW's release at 2004. Even with this title though, we got alot of people hating on the title, saying the game is dead, even though the game ran a 150-man-boss-fight every hour in every single server just a week ago. In general, what people say in MMORPG forums are mostly false becasue they are either too hardcore or too casual leading to a big ''WHAT!''.

The opinions regarding SWTOR weren't exclusive here though, and became to be consdiered a failure based on the huge production costs. I personally enjoyed the game and thought it was fun until the story was over, and I left. I basically have had my fun with SW's story which I thought they did beautifully.

In my personal opinion, the two big titles of the MMO industry atm are Guild Wars 2 and WoW.

simsalabim77 · March 2014

It cost a trillion USD to make and it went F2P. Also, SWG closed, it's a themepark, it's linear, no housing, and space on-rails. Also, did I mention SWG closed? That about sums it up.

TheLizardbones · March 2014

Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by marsh9799
So, a game that bears much, if not all, of the responsibility for a 52% drop in stock price that from which it takes more than a year and a half to recover? Failure.

Total speculation.

It's speculation, but this is probably true. EA took a big hit in their stock price, and SWToR was directly pointed to by investors as the reason. Of course, now the stock is at a five year high.

Droosteel · March 2014

Originally posted by eGumball
snip Though it is not wrong if some may love it or believe it is successful because it is all a matter of opinion. snip

I pretty much agree with what you said except this part.

This just cannot be. Because - where do you draw the line?

"lookie i farted its biggets succes in mankind history" "WTF?" "you are a hater, its my opinion so it is SO?

"blurp! OMG achievent of the century!" "dude it really isnt" "you hate, i said its achievement of the century and its my opinion?"

Really, you think thats acceptable?

Or to redefine success so even Titanic is a SUCCESS?

Or no failure of ANY kind ever because some nut out there proclaims anythig/everything a success?

Ill go with established standard, standard that was put in for a reason. If these people want to redefine this standard to even fit SWTOR in, theyll have to go a bit farther than (sanctioned) forum drivel.

marsh9799 · March 2014

Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by marsh9799
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost. They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.
So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million. Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL! Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!
200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl No? hahahahahaha
So... where's the official EA numbers for SWTOR? 500 Million did you say? No numbers huh? ROFL! At least that 200 Million came from a financial source. Just... /FACEPALM Whatever you are smoking has to be some good stuff so please share it.
The $500 million comes from a financial source and is not comparable to the $200 million number. Analysts estimated the production costs for the game were between $200 and $300 million with another $100 million in advertising. The $500 million takes into account some of the Bioware acquisition.
Since you failed to share any sources, atleast share that stuff you are smoking. It seems darn good.
/eyeroll https://www.google.com/#q=SWTOR+total+cost+$500+million It's so hard man... For the completely inept. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-riccitiello-aims-high-2012-01-17?pagenumber=2#
So apparently, one Analyst's estimate becomes fact now, is it? And the fact that most analysts put it at 100-300M is meant to be ignored. Classic haters.
Actually, you've demonstrated an inability to read English or a willful ignorance of those numbers. As I said before, the $500 million number is not comparable to the production numbers. It is not a production cost estimate. Classic cult fanboy.
From the market watch article I think its safe to say that the total all-in investment in Star Wars is probably approaching half a billion dollars, Creutz says. That's it. From the original VG article, the full line reads The one thing that everyone can agree on is that the game was expensive, and while most analysts are estimating somewhere between $100-$300 million, analyst Doug Creutz suspects that Electronic Arts has sunk nearly half a billion dollars into the project. So unless your English comprehension is poor, the line clearly reads that all the estimates are for the total. Nowhere does it state that the 100M-300M was only for developement and that 500M is with everything. But, on gamesradar i found this, http://www.gamesradar.com/analysts-eas-stake-old-republic-probably-approaches-500m/ Speaking to Market Watch, analyst Doug Creutz estimates that Electronic Arts likely invested around $500 million dollars on Star Wars: The Old Republic, factoring in development costs and EA CEO John Riccitiellos push to acquire the games developer, BioWare/Pandemic. This is ridiculous. EA acquired Bioware for a variety of Game IPs and using that as an excuse to increase the costs just reeks of sensationalism and poor journalism.

Part of the Bioware acquisition was for the purpose of developing SWTOR. Doug Creutz factored that into his total cost estimate. The others are actual development cost estimates. The only one that put it at the $100 million mark was an estimate in May 2011. He also predicted they would have 10 to 50 million players after going FTP.

$80 million *DEVELOPMENT COSTS*

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-cost-ea-80-million-analyst/1100-6312400/

$200 million *CREATING IT*
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/games/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=63378#/0

$200 - $300 million *PRODUCTION COSTS*
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/

Droosteel · March 2014

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Droosteel

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Droosteel

Just imagine what would closing 500m$$ Star Wars game shortly after launch do to their stock. It costed SO much that it HAD to survive no matter the cost. They just said goodbye to their investment and ever making it back. They are scraping what they can to lower the loss over the years to come.

So we went from 300Million of EALouse (which turned out to be false) to 500 Million. Why not just say it cost 1 Billion dollars? ROFL! Apparently, 200 million per year earnings is a 'failure' for some people. lolwut?!

200 million? SHOW OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS FOR SWTOR rofl No? hahahahahaha

So... where's the official EA numbers for SWTOR? 500 Million did you say? No numbers huh? ROFL! At least that 200 Million came from a financial source. Just... /FACEPALM Whatever you are smoking has to be some good stuff so please share it.

The $500 million comes from a financial source and is not comparable to the $200 million number. Analysts estimated the production costs for the game were between $200 and $300 million with another $100 million in advertising. The $500 million takes into account some of the Bioware acquisition.

Since you failed to share any sources, atleast share that stuff you are smoking. It seems darn good.

/eyeroll https://www.google.com/#q=SWTOR+total+cost+$500+million It's so hard man... For the completely inept. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-riccitiello-aims-high-2012-01-17?pagenumber=2#

So apparently, one Analyst's estimate becomes fact now, is it? And the fact that most analysts put it at 100-300M is meant to be ignored. Classic haters.

Actually, you've demonstrated an inability to read English or a willful ignorance of those numbers. As I said before, the $500 million number is not comparable to the production numbers. It is not a production cost estimate. Classic cult fanboy.

From the market watch article “I think it’s safe to say that the total all-in investment in ‘Star Wars’ is probably approaching half a billion dollars,” Creutz says. That's it. From the original VG article, the full line reads The one thing that everyone can agree on is that the game was expensive, and while most analysts are estimating somewhere between $100-$300 million, analyst Doug Creutz suspects that Electronic Arts has sunk nearly half a billion dollars into the project. So unless your English comprehension is poor, the line clearly reads that all the estimates are for the total. Nowhere does it state that the 100M-300M was only for developement and that 500M is with everything. But, on gamesradar i found this, http://www.gamesradar.com/analysts-eas-stake-old-republic-probably-approaches-500m/ Speaking to Market Watch, analyst Doug Creutz estimates that Electronic Arts likely invested around $500 million dollars on Star Wars: The Old Republic, factoring in development costs and EA CEO John Riccitiello’s push to acquire the game’s developer, BioWare/Pandemic. This is ridiculous. EA acquired Bioware for a variety of Game IPs and using that as an excuse to increase the costs just reeks of sensationalism and poor journalism.

Part of the Bioware acquisition was for the purpose of developing SWTOR. Doug Creutz factored that into his total cost estimate. The others are actual development cost estimates. The only one that put it at the $100 million mark was an estimate in May 2011. He also predicted they would have 10 to 50 million players after going FTP.

$80 million *DEVELOPMENT COSTS*

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-cost-ea-80-million-analyst/1100-6312400/

$200 million *CREATING IT*
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/games/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=63378#/0

$200 - $300 million *PRODUCTION COSTS*
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/01/five-lessons-learned-as-swtor-surrenders/

I still roll with EALouse, i mean, when he said that stuff it was a bit suspicious and not to hard to reject, but everything he said was true, analysts put it in that area also. He said budget for SWTOR was 300m$ (note that they probably did go over budget nearing the launch because of panic that took over BW/EA)

If you factor in BW aquisition...oh boy. saying "500m$" endevour even sounds on the low side because 800m JUST for buying BW can in majority be factored to SWTOR (EA desperately wanted WoW level success MMO, and BW was there as established developer in possesion on biggets IP in the world making THE one, its like EA magnet lol)

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