Originally posted by Dealdrick Wow, 10 pages of irrelevant debate on the spending habits of F2P mobile gamers in a thread about the latest build for a sub based MMO about to be launched.....
All for simply agreeing with someone and stating an opinion:)P
Relevance man, apples and oranges, you can have all the opinions you want but hijacked thread is hijacked
HEy man I didn't want to go into it with them which is why I tried keeping my posts on it short and to the point, and why I didn't want to link stuff, yadda, yadda, yadda.. Apparently I didn't have a backbone if I didn't. Forum rules be damned..
Really, you got internet bullied into a pointless 10 page debate on the spending habits of mobile gaming whales (which is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of btw) when you didn't want to? Did they get your lunch money too or just give you a wedgie? =p
Hmm I felt like I was the bully in the situation, apparently I was holding them up for their cosmetics money. Because I essentially said there's too many free riders in the world today.
Either way, ha!, that was pretty good. But now we're derailing talking about derailing.
Lol
Yeah this guy stole my cosmetics money....no pink hawt pants for me this week!!!
So, show of hands, who here was on the PTS that can discuss similarities and differences in the latest build compared to what we saw this last beta weekend?
Originally posted by theprophet85 Although the patch notes for the weekend beta said .18, the .181 patch was indeed rolled into this last weekend's beta. So the PTS and beta weekend you played were the exact same build. Plenty of bugs at lower levels for all 3 factions.
Can you confirm that quest were breaking at roughly the same rate on the PTS as the "stress test"? For arguments sake, let's say that rate was about 40%, is that agreeable?
Some quests are broken 100% of the time on PTS, no matter how many people are doing the quest. But all the ones that were broken on the weekend test I played through were broken on the PTS, so its not just an issue with player population.
Wasn't that the unofficial RP server :P AS opposed to the unofficial PVP server (named by the devs) Bloodfin :P J/K ALways good to meet an SWG vet haha.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by theprophet85 Although the patch notes for the weekend beta said .18, the .181 patch was indeed rolled into this last weekend's beta. So the PTS and beta weekend you played were the exact same build. Plenty of bugs at lower levels for all 3 factions.
Can you confirm that quest were breaking at roughly the same rate on the PTS as the "stress test"? For arguments sake, let's say that rate was about 40%, is that agreeable?
Some quests are broken 100% of the time on PTS, no matter how many people are doing the quest. But all the ones that were broken on the weekend test I played through were broken on the PTS, so its not just an issue with player population.
That is what I was afraid of. From my vantage point, it appears to be a fundamental problem with phasing inside the mega server itself, and that problem is exacerbated by a higher concentration of players. I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I foresee a very rough launch of a game with loads of potential that will turn possible subscribers away.
It seems that "everybody knows" that F2P MMO's make more money than subscription games.
Except the people that develop and run these games, that is. Apparently they didn't get the memo. And even though their livelihoods depend on the gaming industry, they don't read (or believe) any of these "facts" that are freely available on the internet ? They don't ever talk to their peers, attend conventions or read any trade journals.
If MMO's make more money as F2P, why do the people that run these games resist the F2P transition for as long as possible ? Are they trying to avoid making more money ?
Don't they realise that every month they continue with their sub plans, it costs them millions of dollars in lost F2P revenue ?
Don't they realise that as soon as their investors and shareholders google "F2P revenue" they are all going to be fired ?
Really puzzling...
Since we are posting links so here is one. I don't know from where you got that devs resist going F2P? it might be true in the beginning when it was like sailing through new waters but i doubt in todays market any devs would resist going F2P if given an oppertunity. Maybe Zenimax are too confident about their product but then which dev isn't?
So you're basically saying that Zenimax don't believe the SuperdataResearch numbers ?
Because if they did believe those numbers, they'd launch as B2P with a full-blown Cash Shop. No other strategy would be logical.
Unless you're saying F2P makes more money than subs if the subs fall below a certain threshold... ?
Maybe they have 100% confidence in their game and believe that they can get 1 million+ subscribers for their game..who knows. that is something only they know.
No what i am saying is hybrid models make lot more money than pure sub models. Remember that all these F2P mmos also offer 15 bucks a month option.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
It seems that "everybody knows" that F2P MMO's make more money than subscription games.
Except the people that develop and run these games, that is. Apparently they didn't get the memo. And even though their livelihoods depend on the gaming industry, they don't read (or believe) any of these "facts" that are freely available on the internet ? They don't ever talk to their peers, attend conventions or read any trade journals.
If MMO's make more money as F2P, why do the people that run these games resist the F2P transition for as long as possible ? Are they trying to avoid making more money ?
Don't they realise that every month they continue with their sub plans, it costs them millions of dollars in lost F2P revenue ?
Don't they realise that as soon as their investors and shareholders google "F2P revenue" they are all going to be fired ?
Really puzzling...
Since we are posting links so here is one. I don't know from where you got that devs resist going F2P? it might be true in the beginning when it was like sailing through new waters but i doubt in todays market any devs would resist going F2P if given an oppertunity. Maybe Zenimax are too confident about their product but then which dev isn't?
So you're basically saying that Zenimax don't believe the SuperdataResearch numbers ?
Because if they did believe those numbers, they'd launch as B2P with a full-blown Cash Shop. No other strategy would be logical.
Unless you're saying F2P makes more money than subs if the subs fall below a certain threshold... ?
Maybe they have 100% confidence in their game and believe that they can get 1 million+ subscribers for their game..who knows. that is something only they know.
No what i am saying is hybrid models make lot more money than pure sub models. Remember that all these F2P mmos also offer 15 bucks a month option.
Gold Five: "Stay on target!"
this isn't the place for f2p discussion, make a new thread or use that handy dandy search function
Review is pretty spot on. Being a PTS tester, I dont think its just an issue with phasing.
There are so many issues with the game bug wise, they havent even addressed the imbalance problems (like heavy armor being useless, I can hit the softcap of armor as a dk in medium armor lol), and other game issues like trying to reset a VR dungeon, which is nearly impossible (and takes forever).
<p double-border="" bottom"="">Matt-Firor said on :
We will make sure that no matter where you live, every player in North America, Europe, Oceania and many places beyond, will have a polished, lag-free launch experience.
Did he really say that? WHat an idiot...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
<p double-border="" bottom"="">Matt-Firor said on :
We will make sure that no matter where you live, every player in North America, Europe, Oceania and many places beyond, will have a polished, lag-free launch experience.
Did he really say that? WHat an idiot...
That looks like a quote from the "letter" he posted Friday morning right before the beta server opened. Here's the link to it on the main page
Naturally, there is no mention (at least that I saw) of bugs, phasing issues or quest mobs respawning. Personally, I have not seen a comment from a PTS tester that indicated these issues were either fixed or non-issues on their end and Zeni doesn't seem to want to publicly address this.
Anyway, I think the horse I'm beating is pretty much dead at this point......
Firstly, it's a forum for video games, this is a video game, debating the game is the point of the site, so there is plenty of sense in doing so. Secondly, I will be playing at launch, not that that further validates my opinion. I love the game when it works, the weekend it did not. It was a major step backwards right before launch, if someone doesn't consider that an ominous sign then I question the impartiality of their opinion.
Let's just think of the numbers for a second ....ESO had 5 million Beta accounts for this weekend . That's 350 times as many people as TSW had at launch ....2 times as many people as ever bought GW2 and 5 times population WOW had when it started . So you can debate all you want I still think it was a pretty good showing for a game in Beta that was well overloaded for what will be actual launch numbers .
4,999,999. I never logged in even though I had access.
Wasn't that the unofficial RP server :P AS opposed to the unofficial PVP server (named by the devs) Bloodfin :P J/K ALways good to meet an SWG vet haha.
Yes, yes Bloodfin was the "official" PvP server but RP? You cut me deep man lol...
I was pre pub 9, TEF generation...good times
Recently spent 3 months solid on the EMU...the game is still like digital crack....god help me when they implement CH in the next publish
There are so many issues with the game bug wise, they havent even addressed the imbalance problems (like heavy armor being useless, I can hit the softcap of armor as a dk in medium armor lol), and other game issues like trying to reset a VR dungeon, which is nearly impossible (and takes forever).
yeah that stuff doesnt get talked about because it isnt as pressing as the other stuff. But I have mentioned the oft caps and hard caps a few times and how theyre totally broken. But since people dont really pay attention to that stuff anyway (while being experts at every thing else regarding MMOs) no one is talking about it.
Also since it is going to directly impact PvP, the one thing people think s actually release worthy in this game I am sre theye also too scared to bring it up. They have nerfed and buffed classes so many times is is hard to tell what is going on and they still havent addressed the major issues like stats and caps. Which if they would might fix some of the skills.
One PvP becomes the main focus and the glaring imbalances are seen ia RELEASED game there will be plenty of threads about it I am sure. Because even though there are only 4 classes theyre all going ot be over powered or underpowered.
There are so many issues with the game bug wise, they havent even addressed the imbalance problems (like heavy armor being useless, I can hit the softcap of armor as a dk in medium armor lol), and other game issues like trying to reset a VR dungeon, which is nearly impossible (and takes forever).
yeah that stuff doesnt get talked about because it isnt as pressing as the other stuff. But I have mentioned the oft caps and hard caps a few times and how theyre totally broken. But since people dont really pay attention to that stuff anyway (while being experts at every thing else regarding MMOs) no one is talking about it.
Also since it is going to directly impact PvP, the one thing people think s actually release worthy in this game I am sre theye also too scared to bring it up. They have nerfed and buffed classes so many times is is hard to tell what is going on and they still havent addressed the major issues like stats and caps. Which if they would might fix some of the skills.
One PvP becomes the main focus and the glaring imbalances are seen ia RELEASED game there will be plenty of threads about it I am sure. Because even though there are only 4 classes theyre all going ot be over powered or underpowered.
I don't think that balancing is being ignored or forgotten about, it has just taken a back seat since this weekend's test. Luckily, most of the balance issues are relatively easy to deal with; its mostly just tweaking numbers as opposed to finding the flaws in the mechanics themselves.
Originally posted by Distopia Best advice one can give "wait and see".. I agree.
If a few bugged quests are going to stop them from playing well... I really have nothing nice to say to those people.
I have a car with no engine you can have for $1000. Hey it doesn't work properly but you sound like the kind of guy who will be suckered into buying any old crap.
I'm not worried. Beta tests are for working out the kinks and as OP mentioned, a lot is going on behind the scenes that we are often unaware of. Even then, many MMO launches can be a bit rocky due to the complexity and size of MMO's. I'm totally fine with all of that and will enjoy myself no matter what. Anyone that is stressing themselves out over this is only making themselves upset and talking themselves out of a fun gameplay experience.
I'm not worried. Beta tests are for working out the kinks and as OP mentioned, a lot is going on behind the scenes that we are often unaware of. Even then, many MMO launches can be a bit rocky due to the complexity and size of MMO's. I'm totally fine with all of that and will enjoy myself no matter what. Anyone that is stressing themselves out over this is only making themselves upset and talking themselves out of a fun gameplay experience.
I admire your outlook, and agree that beta testing exists to iron out kinks, but I do not believe that the issues we have seen are mere kinks. I fear there is a fundamental issue with the game mechanics that still not been resolved, and I also hope I am wrong. Either way, I'll be there at launch trying my best to enjoy it.
Simply put. This game is not ready for launch. It has received very little end game testing and has massive exploits everywhere. There is no endgame pve and very little planned. Only 1 endgame pve content is planned in their immediate list of new content drops. There. Is no thieves guild and no stealing mechanic even on the idea table.
Sooooo..... Will it be fun? Probably. Should it have been polished more? Probably. Will it be a good game? Probably. Should you play it? Yeah probably. Might it go free2play after a few months? Yeah probably. Is this a standard former of release and make money way that mmos are released and served to us gamers? Yup. Can we expect a change soon?
I hope so.
In the mean time, have fun wait a few months if want. Or buy it now. If you have fun good. If you don't learn some selfcontrol. If it is terrible. Demand a refund.
Mmos are only as fun as the people you play with IMHO.
Comments
Lulz
Lol
Yeah this guy stole my cosmetics money....no pink hawt pants for me this week!!!
:P
Makes me wanna break out some sweet pink comp armor and my trusty stun baton, then beat Zenimax into fixing this ****
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
lol...
There speaks a man of experience!!
Don't make me log in to the EMU and re-colour my stun layered comp over this
/flipcoin
I am too poor to afford a decent baton though.../sigh
Heh, Bloodfin vet here, speaking of which I haven't checked out their duck yet.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Bloodfin....pffft!!!
Euro_Chim FTW!!
Some quests are broken 100% of the time on PTS, no matter how many people are doing the quest. But all the ones that were broken on the weekend test I played through were broken on the PTS, so its not just an issue with player population.
Wasn't that the unofficial RP server :P AS opposed to the unofficial PVP server (named by the devs) Bloodfin :P J/K ALways good to meet an SWG vet haha.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That is what I was afraid of. From my vantage point, it appears to be a fundamental problem with phasing inside the mega server itself, and that problem is exacerbated by a higher concentration of players. I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I foresee a very rough launch of a game with loads of potential that will turn possible subscribers away.
Maybe they have 100% confidence in their game and believe that they can get 1 million+ subscribers for their game..who knows. that is something only they know.
No what i am saying is hybrid models make lot more money than pure sub models. Remember that all these F2P mmos also offer 15 bucks a month option.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Link to a similar thread on Tamriel Foundry
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/ars-technica-on-eso-bete-too-buggy-for-launch/
Gold Five: "Stay on target!"
this isn't the place for f2p discussion, make a new thread or use that handy dandy search function
Review is pretty spot on. Being a PTS tester, I dont think its just an issue with phasing.
There are so many issues with the game bug wise, they havent even addressed the imbalance problems (like heavy armor being useless, I can hit the softcap of armor as a dk in medium armor lol), and other game issues like trying to reset a VR dungeon, which is nearly impossible (and takes forever).
Snipped from that thread
We will make sure that no matter where you live, every player in North America, Europe, Oceania and many places beyond, will have a polished, lag-free launch experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That looks like a quote from the "letter" he posted Friday morning right before the beta server opened. Here's the link to it on the main page
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/03/14/eso-road-ahead
Naturally, there is no mention (at least that I saw) of bugs, phasing issues or quest mobs respawning. Personally, I have not seen a comment from a PTS tester that indicated these issues were either fixed or non-issues on their end and Zeni doesn't seem to want to publicly address this.
Anyway, I think the horse I'm beating is pretty much dead at this point......
4,999,999. I never logged in even though I had access.
One more thing, this could be interesting. Zenimax doing an AMA on Reddit this Thursday
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/20owuo/zenimax_online_studioseso_prelaunch_ama_this/
Bloodfin....pffft!!!
Euro_Chim FTW!!
Wasn't that the unofficial RP server :P AS opposed to the unofficial PVP server (named by the devs) Bloodfin :P J/K ALways good to meet an SWG vet haha.
Yes, yes Bloodfin was the "official" PvP server but RP? You cut me deep man lol...I was pre pub 9, TEF generation...good times
Recently spent 3 months solid on the EMU...the game is still like digital crack....god help me when they implement CH in the next publish
Sorry for going OT everyone
yeah that stuff doesnt get talked about because it isnt as pressing as the other stuff. But I have mentioned the oft caps and hard caps a few times and how theyre totally broken. But since people dont really pay attention to that stuff anyway (while being experts at every thing else regarding MMOs) no one is talking about it.
Also since it is going to directly impact PvP, the one thing people think s actually release worthy in this game I am sre theye also too scared to bring it up. They have nerfed and buffed classes so many times is is hard to tell what is going on and they still havent addressed the major issues like stats and caps. Which if they would might fix some of the skills.
One PvP becomes the main focus and the glaring imbalances are seen ia RELEASED game there will be plenty of threads about it I am sure. Because even though there are only 4 classes theyre all going ot be over powered or underpowered.
I don't think that balancing is being ignored or forgotten about, it has just taken a back seat since this weekend's test. Luckily, most of the balance issues are relatively easy to deal with; its mostly just tweaking numbers as opposed to finding the flaws in the mechanics themselves.
I have a car with no engine you can have for $1000. Hey it doesn't work properly but you sound like the kind of guy who will be suckered into buying any old crap.
I'm not worried. Beta tests are for working out the kinks and as OP mentioned, a lot is going on behind the scenes that we are often unaware of. Even then, many MMO launches can be a bit rocky due to the complexity and size of MMO's. I'm totally fine with all of that and will enjoy myself no matter what. Anyone that is stressing themselves out over this is only making themselves upset and talking themselves out of a fun gameplay experience.
I admire your outlook, and agree that beta testing exists to iron out kinks, but I do not believe that the issues we have seen are mere kinks. I fear there is a fundamental issue with the game mechanics that still not been resolved, and I also hope I am wrong. Either way, I'll be there at launch trying my best to enjoy it.
Sooooo..... Will it be fun? Probably. Should it have been polished more? Probably. Will it be a good game? Probably. Should you play it? Yeah probably. Might it go free2play after a few months? Yeah probably. Is this a standard former of release and make money way that mmos are released and served to us gamers? Yup. Can we expect a change soon?
I hope so.
In the mean time, have fun wait a few months if want. Or buy it now. If you have fun good. If you don't learn some selfcontrol. If it is terrible. Demand a refund.
Mmos are only as fun as the people you play with IMHO.