Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Wanting to SOLO on a MMORPG.....huh?
allnamesleft
Member Posts: 21
I have been seeing a lot of people talking about mmorpgs and how there is lack things to do for people who want to solo the game and I know games will try and meet this need for solo gamers for the simple fact they would want to cast as big of a net over the pool of online gamers as they can, but should they? I guess for me where the confusion comes in is that if I want to play a mmorpg to meet people and to interact with them and if I want to play solo I will grab from a console or non-online game. After all, they usually can provide more graphics, don't have to worry about staying connected, and if you don't like interaction with other people you won't have trouble since no one else is playing. So I am just curious to why people wish to play solo on a mmorpg. I perhaps wouldn't be as interested in this topic except sometimes when mmorpgs try to cater to the solo crowd it sometimes takes away from the game itself. Also you get comments like " I lvled all the way to 60(or max lvl in game) and I did it solo. Haha this game is such a joke!" Also if you do solo and there is another reason you play a game that is made to permit large amounts of people to play together please let me know what that is. Thank you.
Comments
People that like soloing don't dislike interacting with people. They just don't like being FORCED to group with people to proceed. Sometimes I just don't want to group with people in an mmorpg, and have the option not to is nice. I still talk to people while soloing and interract when the need arises, that's not really the point. Also, I would really like an example of this: "sometimes when mmorpgs try to cater to the solo crowd it sometimes takes away from the game itself. " I'm not sure when the standard of forced grouping in MMORPGs became part of the definition of an MMORPG. You're still adventuring in a living breathing world, whether or not you are in a group with other people.
I agree with you,
I mean, I never see the purpose of soloing. Some people say, other people are just too dumb to play correctly .. but I like to chat while grinding ...
If I take what you say, The guy who want to solo just buy a solo game, then invite his friend to his house to talk with it while playing (What I usually do when I want to solo)
But .. I don't know ... people seem to hate to find other people and play with them.
It might come from people who hate how it was hard to lvl in eq in the old time ...
I think that a good mmorpg need some solo grind. but, not base on it. It might be hard to find as a devolopper the good middle point between solo and group grinding.
The good middle point will make people who can't play much more than 1 hour be able to grind a bit by soloing and people with more time will find some group and have a damn good time grinding with people.
I don't think all this is someone really easy to do. Look at eq2 .. easier to grind by grouping, but they add some stuff for small group and solo, but, it still take alot of time to grind. and it's not really nice.
and if you look at the other side, WoW, that you can do it really easy just by soloing. That, the only group thing are instance .. it's kind of hard to think about the good middle point, when I think both game tried to acheive it, and both still look as a solo game or a group game.
WoW group are just really a joke, you got too low xp .. and if you go the other way, like eq2, it might end like the soloing is just too long.
the best thing should be something like, Group is good xp, and easy, but solo is good too, but not that good ...
I love MMORPG, and i love to solo. Does that sound so contradictory to you ? The main reason why MMORPG are fun (for me) is because of the community. Being part of a large community of peoples enjoying the same thing is great. Even better, on a smaller scale, being part of a guild is what make MMORPGS fun.
Peoples want to solo in a MMORPG yes but MOST importantly what they want is being able to do something without wasting hours trying to find peoples to group with. Don't get me wrong here, i'm not saying it should be SOLO only, but the solo game of a MMORPG should be a big part of a game. Most MMORPG players are casual players and they don't want to have to waste hours getting in groups each time they log to play.
MMORPGS are not played because they are solo or group friendly but because peoples like playing a game in a community. Single player games are boring to me, not because you can't team but because i have no one to interact with.
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
MMORPGs are about freedom, non linear, gameplay. I like having a choice to solo or group. In most of mmos, where soloing is viable, it's usually not as exciting or fun as grouping, and sometimes experience bonuses are thrown in when you are with a party to encourage grouping further. I think how it's being looked here in this topic as either, you are a soloer or you are a grouper, where it should be recognized that there is a middle ground where many are in. On days where I have an hour to play, I solo, where as on days I have plenty of freetime, I can take my time looking for a group.
Just my 2 cents.
I want to group thats why I play MMO's I quit WoW because of the lack of grouping and I now play EQ2 and am happy has hell because the game almost forces people to group while you can solo its alot easier to group. And Ive had notstop invites to groups and am having a blast. I dont see the point in soloing all the time, If you want to do that play a solo game and load up msn. but its each to there own not my choice but if I can play a game where Groups are prefured of solo I would much rather join the later
most single player rpg's have groups in them, why not play final fantasy and load up MSN and chat with friends? you got your group and your interaction. see how stupid that thought process is yet?
"I quit WoW because of the lack of grouping "
WHAT?!
Can you explain this? Did you reach 30+ where partying is where the game is? I remember grinding Scarlet Monestary early numerous numerous times in groups, then moving to LBRS and UBRS.. once you hit high lvls there's ZF, MC, and BWL. If you left WoW because of grouping you didn't even attempt to give the game a chance.
I on the other hand left the game because it became an uneventful grinding of MC (with a guild group)for upper tier gear. I don't understand how you can say WoW isn't revolved COMPLETELY around grouping.
I agree... but I do like to have the ABILITY to solo if I want to (ie if I don't have much time/can't find a group/don't feel like grouping). Also, don't forget that when MMORPGs age their playerbase dwindles and becomes very top-heavy, making it almost impossible for new players to catch up through grouping.
I think its fairly safe to say that half of all MMOG players (or more) prefer the option to solo. I would suggest that its actually closer to 75%. Solo play doesnt mean that you never group, just that you dont regularily group.
Soloers still chat, join guilds, purchase and sell, congergate in public areas and socialize.
-Gooney
Soloing usually bores the hell out of me but that said I certainly wouldnt play a game where you are forced to group. There are occasions where grouping is just out of the question so the chance to spend a little time soloing is good for me.
I have played and quit WoW three times now. Not becasue I dont like the game, its becasue generally grouping outside of raids and instances is pretty much unheard of. That to me is crap and needs addressing. It kind of takes the MMO out of MMORPG to me. So now I play Everquest 2 where grouping happens all the time. So much more fun. Also playing CoH becasue again people do group.
I hate groups in MMOs because most of the time the people around in the towns who you want to party with either A:Go off killing a group of monsters and then get killed or B:They act really dumb.
That's why I prefer soloing,I hate to group. But then again that all depends on the game.
"The one who begins with nothing, gains everything slowly."
I solo most of the time.
Ive found in numerous games that when i join a guild and im at a low level i never see any of the other members.Sometimes i get blind invites when im afk in towns for a few minutes.
Yeah these sound like real nice groups to join.
I dont pay to play with other players.I pay to play for updated and continuing content.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
Massively MULTIPLAYER does not mean massively GROUPED. Even as a solo player (and I group as needed) I have huge interactions with other players that I don't have playing single player games. Crafting, socializing and roleplaying require others to interact with. Simply running a dungeon, and needing a group to do it, is the worst possible reason to have to group, imho.
This topic is beat to death and anyone who doesn't understand why others wish to play a certain way shouldn't worry about it so much. Live and let live I say, as long as it doesn't effect you negatively.
To that, I offer the example of old school EQ prior to Planes of Power, which was solo friendly, group friendly, and raid friendly, able to satisfy all those playstyles with adequate content, while being challenging for each of those playstyles, unlike games such as WoW which is a good game but too easy overall. So it is possible to create a MMOG that casts the widest net while retaining interest to a variety of playstyles.
Unfortunately, EQ was ruined starting with Planes of Power and following expansions which focused on raiding and alienated soloers and regular group players.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I swear. Every time I see a thread like this I think the OP is dim or something. In ANY MMORPG there will be times when you want to log in and play but either don't have time for a group or can't find one. I don't care how group friendly an MMO is there will ALWAYS be times when you need to, want to or are forced to solo. Even the most group friendly classes SOMETIMES have difficulty finding a group. That is the single biggest reason that MMO's absolutely have to be able to support solo play.
People with young kids are a prime example of a need to be able to solo in an MMORPG. Most of us that are constantly running AFK to chase a kid down or change a diaper or get the dog or cat off the kid or the kid off the cat or dog (more frequently) or change the TV channel... If I'm on 'kid duty' because the wife is shopping but still feel like playing I am NOT about to subject my group to my constant AFK status. That doesn't mean that I don't want to be able to advance my character, however. Thus I play... solo... at those times.
Another example is PVP group games, like DAOC. I LOVE RVR in DAOC and I ALWAYS try to join a group for it. But if I don't have time for a group in RVR I will typically go PVE solo to advance my character. Basically because in DAOC if I have time to go get in a group I would rather go RVR than PVE. So in DAOC I typically PVE solo unless a PVE group happens to fall in my lap or my guild is doing something in my level range.
Wanting Solo content doesn't mean people want the game to revolve around solo play. It means we want the ABILITY to play solo if we need/desire to. When I solo I do not expect to get the same quality of rewards as a group would. But I absolutely expect to be able to advance my character's XP or cash.
Another type of MMO player that PREFERS to solo still plays MMO's because they still interact with other players. They prefer to adventure alone but they like having a player run economy. They enjoy buying items from other players and interacting in guild or general chat while playing. IE: They enjoy the SOCIAL aspect of the MMORPG but prefer to experience the game itself... SOLO. There's nothing wrong with that either. Now... games should not be built to CATER to these folks but they should certainly be written in such a way that this style of play is possible if that's what a player prefers. Players of this type should be willing to accept the fact that people who join groups will generally get/find better equipment than solo players, however.
Needless to say there are NUMEROUS reasons why people solo in an MMORPG. Just because you don't understand them, or choose not to, does not make those people wrong.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I'd like to say a few words to clarify matters.
Who are you?
I am the solo gamer. I do not play in groups or raids; I avoid guild activity. The vast majority of my play is spent duoing with a single partner. Technically, this makes me a "duo gamer", but for the point of the discussion, there is little deviation from my wants and needs from my solo time to that of my duo time.
While I am an avid PvPer, I disdain duels and find the controlled, limited environment of the Battlegrounds unfulfilling. I play hard, I have two 60s right now, and am working on both my 3rd and 4th 60. My characters have respectable (sometimes superb) gear for their levels, though as raid content expands, I fall ever further behind the maximum curve.
Are you a casual or a raider?
I am not a casual gamer. I play 3-5 hours on an average night, and 8-10 hours on weekends and holidays. When the honor system first came out, I invested enough time to achieve top 10 status on my server, though the lustre of that quickly faded, and the implementation of the BG system ruined "honor" for me.
I am not a raider. By choice, I do not participate in large group activities. This is not a limitation of time, but of preference. I despise large guilds and the accompanying drama. I don't find raids to contribute to "teamwork" but rather that they contribute to my stress levels.
Have you experienced raiding?
To cut-off the argument that I should give the big group scene another go, a brief history. In my first MMO (WoW is my 4th) I was a guild leader for a 500+ person guild. My job was to act as a raid coordinator. I lead large group actions and coordinated quests to help the guild get ahead.
Since moving on from that game and guild, I have participated in large guild activity on many occassions, and in multiple games. From large scale player driven PvP battles to single strike boss raids to the lengthy time sinks that make up WoW 40 man play, I have done it. And done it again. And again until I don't want to do it anymore.
Why do you play MMOs then?
Many reasons exist to play MMOs besides the "mob gang mass zerg" experience. Reasons that keep me playing MMOs as opposed to linear individual games:
1) Player interaction.
Despite my slam on large guilds and large raids, I like dealing with people. From small groups being formed out of necessity to run 5-man dungeons to dynamic economic trade on the auction houses, I like the sense of being part of something larger and more intricate than myself.
2) Impact
In an individual game, even though the story may circle around my actions, my impact is limited to that scripted by the designers. In MMO, I can make a name for myself. People who deal with me in trade remember me. Every player I kill adds to my reputation as a PvPer (or ganker, depending on your point of view). My actions have a lasting impact, on the value of my name, if on nothing else.
3) Sheer size and depth.
No non-MMO can compete with the size and depth of the MMO genre. WoW is simply huge. It gives the illusion of immersion into a living, breathing world.
4) Competition
As I've mentioned, I PvP extensively. Matching up against the other sides best and trying to win is quite the thrill. Getting ambushed in the middle of the Plaguelands, turning the tables and winning against overwhelming odds gives me a sense of accomplishment and achievement. Sterile, "fair" scripted fights don't live up to the possibilities offered by tactics in an open, dynamic and living world.
5) Character advancement and content
In an individual game, once done, you put the game on the shelf to gather dust. An MMO is never really "finished". New content is added in patches. New goals offer fresh ways to experience old content, and player "made" content through direct PvP encounters abound. As the game grows, so too does the ability for my character to grow and develop. Talent builds, weapon choices, armor layouts all add to my sense of purpose and continued interaction.
So, what is it you want then?
What I, and others like me, want is quite simple:
The ability to continue to advance.
When our characters begin to stagnate, we lose much of the drive and purpose behind these games. I understand that powergaming types will hit the caps and boundaries faster than any developer can provide for us, that is why I have alts.
What I can't accept is the dead end we're being presented right now. We want the ability to progress, to continue building our characters, to have goals to work towards and for.
Do you want epics on a silver platter?
Absolutely not. Quite the opposite in fact. Hardcore solo gamers pride themselves on self-sufficiency and self-accomplishment. We don't wand hand-outs. We see the raid system as being dependent, a collectivist action to strip our independence from us. Proud and rugged, we turn on our back on the "easy" solution of riding the coat-tails of a large, mob force guild.
We want epics, and eventually legendaries and artifacts, just like everyone else does. We want to be able to make character progress through our own hard work and achievement, struggling, striving, and succeeding in a challenging and enrichening environment. We do not want to be forced to participate in a mob of people united not by fraternity, but by greed, for the accomplishment of even the most meager of our goals.
We want hard quests and difficult dungeons. We don't mind the difficult road, we just want a road that doesn't say "dead end".
Why can't you just raid like everyone else?
From 1 to 60, I loved WoW. I enjoyed the character creation, questing and advancement systems. I felt like the lore, expansive world and atmosphere contributed towards a long term participatory system. At 60, as we all know, the brakes come on, and hard. Where advancement used to be possible it now slows to a trinkle, and then a standstill, and then it stops moving at all.
I've done the Raid deal. I've done Onyxia and Ragnaros, I've run MC to mind-numbingness. I've compromised with my own wishes and the style of gaming I consider fun to participate in the what the game's given me, and now, as I play up my third character, I groan with the notion that to advance beyond the wall at 60 I'll have to sell myself out again. I don't want to do it.
Some of you will say you love your raiding guild and that you love raids. I couldn't be more glad for you. Though your style of gaming does not appeal to me, I can appreciate that you enjoy what you do. I don't want to take anything away from your playstyle. I just want *my* choice in playstyle to have an equitable respect.
In conclusion, the solo gamer isn't so different than any other gamer. We all want to experience what WoW has to offer, we all want to progress and advance our characters. We all want a sense of accomplishment. No other gaming form offers us the depth and scope of the MMO. We embrace that.
I feel that soloing is a valid, respectible choice. WoW deems so too, at least from 1 to 60. Only at the endgame has the balking, dodgy behaviour become apparent, and only at the post-60 epic doorway have soloers been denied entrance.
All we want is the ability to continue our advancement into the future, and the understanding of our fellow gamers as we make our own, sometimes eccentric way through the game.
1
To be honest. I find this topic pointless. If you don't understand why people like to solo in MMO's. Then you are misunderstanding what a MMORPG truly is. MMORPG does not equate into forced grouping. That's some non-sense that SoE/Verant started. Honestly if you don't understand.. well it would be pointless to try to explain it to you. As more then likely you'll never understand. MMORPG = Grouping is just too embedded into your mind. When in fact the founding idea's of MMORPG as a genre has nothing to do with forced grouping. Just look at a two of the oldest MMO's. M59 and UO.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I absolutely hate being forced to group!
If my friends aren't playing, I'm soloing!
I'll just add my voice to the consensus (albeit with a copy-and-pasted post I use every time this topic appears). The first thing to understand is that solo fighting and solitary existence are two different things. While one might prefer to do their "pve" activities alone, that doesn't necessarily mean they don't interact with people to trade, chat, roleplay, etc.
That said, there are several reasons I prefer to solo. One is that I take some measure of pride in the fact that everything my character is or becomes is due entirely to my own endeavours; this doesn't mean that I think people who group are lesser for that decision, however. I just like being personally responsible for my character's strengths and weaknesses, exercising a degree of independence that is rarely possible in the real world. I feel that by grouping, much of my character's progress can be attributed to others.
The main reason, however, is that every pickup group I've been in has had one of two goals: gain as much experience as possible in as short a period of time as possible, or accomplish the quest objective as efficiently as possible with no mucking about; there's no time to stop and smell the flowers, there's no time to read any lore that might happen to be involved, there's only time for achieving objectives. I simply don't enjoy that style of play. I greatly prefer to take my time, set my own pace, and retain the ability to change my mind at any given moment.
Now, why play online if that's the case? Because online worlds are persistent, evolving, dynamic worlds that last years. I can complete a single-player rpg in a week, and then that character is forever finished. In an MMO, my character can continue to grow and change. Also, as I mentioned above, there is more to any MMO than simply killing things. I enjoy roleplaying, and I enjoy belonging to a quality guild. I also enjoy the hum of life that other players present. In a sense, they're like additional scenery, extras in a movie; they flesh out the environment and make it seem more vibrant.
Really, the list goes on and on. I suspect there are as many reasons people choose the solo playstyle as there are players. I feel that the primary thing to understand is that people respond to different things in all areas of life, but those differences do not preclude co-existence. People tend to get so preoccupied with differences that they completely fail to notice any similarities. When it comes to MMOs, we're all gamers, after all. Some of us like pvp, some pve, some like grouping, some like soloing, but we're all after quality products that capture our imagination and give us enjoyment.
Grouping is a requirement as a feature. I don't think its the end-all and be-all of MMORPGs.
Presuppose no solo-content. The game has been set up so that in order to merely get to the mobs you must be grouped in some way. Why is this a bad idea? Bad groups, for one thing. Ninjas and faulty support class players. Secondly, the game would have to be engineered very carefully, like you'd have kind of a linear progression. Almost everyone would go for the best place to get loot/xp and if you wanted to try some other aspect or dungeon you'd basically be out of luck.
Some new players aren't really even UP to teaming up at low levels. They don't have much of a margin for error and probably don't understand their role fully yet, if they're not outright gimps. If they screw up and get the team killed because they don't understand the game very well they'll probably get kicked off. Not only can they not advance, they can't actually figure out what they're supposed to be doing. Reading guides will help them sure, but only so much.
Here's an example from a BAD grouping in Anarchy Online...
I'm playing an Enforcer. Essentially, the tank-class. I have taunts and use big aggro-gathering weapons. I'm very weak, however, in the healing department. My only heal is linked to a 20m AOE taunt, which isn't that powerful a heal anyway. So our team goes into the local dungeon to beat up Lien the Memorstalker for his nifty Nano-tech RAM. We pick up a pair of Metaphyscists on the way. The MPs are a pet class with a healing pet that floats around them and heals whomever the MP instructs them to.
Ok so we get to "The Boss" and take him down once. One of the dopey MPs ninjaloots the widget and gets kicked off the team. The other brain trust lets me tank this guy until he's close to dying, without ever sending his healing pet to heal the guy who is religiously holding onto the Aggro. In the process, I die. Then he also Ninjaloots the item we wedre trying to get.
I think I solo'ed some things after that and went back later. At which time I got some very good team-mates and we raged through the dungeon with hardly a bump in the road.
Heck here's another point... What if you accidently gimp yourself somehow and people don't want you in teams so that you can focus on your class's important skills and un-gimp? Or what if your class has a time period when its ineffective? Even if you get on a team, you'll be taking up room as a secondary damage-dealer.
Why play a mmorpg if you like to play solo?
-Give me an offline single player game that has the size world that MMO's do.
-Give me an offline single player game that gets updated with new content on a regular basis.
-Give me an offline world that has non-linear play and lots of quests
-Give me an offline game that will let me play for hours a day for months to years without getting bored.
The fact is that offline single player games are limited, most last 40 hours and it's done. MMO's on the other hand last 1000's of hours.
offline games are
significantly cheaper
have zero lag/maintenance/rollback
some do have non-linear play
the cost you save through havnig no monthly fee can be used to buy more/hardware upgrade
most now even have multiplayer functions or have fantastic free mods
your character won't get nerfed after 4 months