Or maybe it's just a lackluster game that isn't "the mmo elder scrolls fans have been waiting for."
Can't possibly be it, right? Maybe a few more apologist pieces will convince the disappointed ES fans they're wrong, and they'll finally accept it for what it is. A mediocre MMO that attempts to capture the ES "feel", while trying not to diverge to far from the "typical" MMO experience.
Remember, according to Firor, the game needed to be familiar to people who played WoW in order for us to understand how to play it.
Obviously these types of threads generate the most user traffic. In my opinion, this game has been a shameful display. I don't hate it though. I tested it several times and offered tons of feedback so that others could enjoy where I could not. But seriously, they done fu**ed it up.
Hate derives from love gone bad. Most people who feel strongly about ESO are experienced in the game. Those jaded mmorpg veterans or distraught Skyrim fans (who never played an mmorpg before) aren't the large segment of people who feel a way about ESO.
I didn't buy and subscribe to ESO out of hate obviously. I cancelled due to growing "hate" because of things being wrong from beta all the way to the first billable month of launch.
When people feel like sites like mmorpg.com sugar coat real issues then turn around and put out these clearly PR firm pushed articles THAT'S what causes the additional hate. When people feel they don't have a voice they try to yell louder and more frequently.
How about stop trivializing things that are wrong with ESO "oh there are few bugs here and there but overall it's a great experience". No the fuck it's not, it's a great experience that is being ruined by dumb things that shouldn't last that long at an in game level. Server issues? Understandable. Optimization issues, understandable. Gold selling spam, understandable. These things take time. World bosses not spawning correctly for weeks at a time, NOT acceptable. Broken quests lasting weeks at a time, NOT ACCEPTABLE. Buggy, not working properly Guild AH, NOT ACCEPTABLE. I'm not even going to get into the falling into the sky bug that was reported day one in BETA.
P.S. The whole "no game is perfect" is a lousy argument. No one expects games to be "perfect", what they do expect is a level of urgency and professionalism from a company charging premium price for the box AND a subscription. Is it not 2014? Who cares how buggy any past game was during their launch. Is the industry not supposed to learn from mistakes or do we repeat them over and over again and refer to the last as a good reason to accept the next?
You're spot on FlyByKnight. I've been a big fan of TES games from Daggerfall and a fan of MMORPG's since Everquest. So this game should have been perfect for me but I just couldn't justify the cost with all the problems at release. The real draw for my wife and I would have been to duo our way through the PvE content. We've all seen the problems with this since beta. We're very disappointed to have to wait until this is fixed. We'll take a look at it again in a year or so.
It's hard to read this without feeling like your digging for exuses. The first couple of paragraphs that claim we are so ignorant that we can't tell the difference between hand holding and a broken game is an insult.
I think when a game company releases a title based on a hugely popular IP and charges $60 plus a sub fee AND has a cash shop, players should expect a little more. The growing trend to charge in every fashion possible and then release a buggy mess to be patched later is what is hurting the game industry.
No, no, no. Sorry. The $60 game is hurting the gaming industry. Even Cliffy B says that. Everything in this industry is sky rocketing, budgets, salaries, graphics, animations, yet they're still charging $60. How long has it been at that price? Shoot, I think that even in the 90s games were selling for $50 bucks!!!!! What's that with inflation? Math people? Please? Damn, it's got to be at least $75.
Reality, the cost of game ownership has actually gotten cheaper over time. Suuuuure, there are a couple titles selling millions of copies but by-and-large being a game company these days is less profitable (if profitable at all).
Yes, ESO too a hugely popular IP and turned it into a hybrid of both. The world is much larger than even Skyrim. There is more time investment than Skyrim. There is more game than Skyrim. So if you're getting MORE, then why is the expectation that you should still pay the same $60. Oh, and still be held accountable for creating content on an ongoing basis, etc. I think this is part of the entitlement spoken about in the article, too. It doesn't just apply to this game, though, it's all games. Crap, why is COD (5 hour campaign) the same price as Skyrim or ESO? It's because we've got it so freakin' good! Believe that!
If they cannot make a $60 box price work - then perhaps they should stop making million dollar cinematics that have absolutely nothing graphically in common with the game they are pushing.
I wonder how much better ESO could have been if they had just made their "awesome cinematics" from in-game footage and put those dollars in the game.
I'll say the same for TOR - put out several high quality cinematics that completely misrepresented what the classes (and graphics) in the game were capable of doing.
Lol, yes, both games were expensive, but they are just the tip of the iceberg my friend. The $100 million game is becoming more common place. Things just get more expensive. It's not about throwing in a cinematic that kills it. It's inflation.
Here's a great scenario. I don't know what you do, but let's say I'm your boss. I come in this morning and I say that I'm going to cut your salary by a third. Oh, and then I'm not going to be giving you a raise for the next 20 years either. What are you going to do? I know what I'd do, I'd scrawl my resignation on the nearest post-it and GTFO. That's what I'm saying. Game prices aren't inflating to meet the market price of talent.
Sure, you could outsource to China and probably get the same job done for a quarter of the price, but the moment someone like ZOS mentions such a thing, the bleeding-heart patriots are out in full-force talking about how they're going to boycott ZOS because they're taking away American jobs! Look at both ESO and SWTOR. Both were developed in North America.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want game prices to increase, but cutting cinematics isn't the silver bullet that's going to save all the problems in the game industry, either. Every one of us should be thankful that we only pay $60 for a game.
Bethesda pay much for this? Bad games are bad...period....bad games that cost 60$ plus sub....even worse. Bad articles are bad....period... Bad articles saying bad games are good....even worse.
I'm not saying this is the only flaw of the game, but it's a big one and symptomatic of the big problem with the game's design decisions. Out of all the Elder Scrolls features they chose to place an enourmous amount of work into implementing the one that was the least compatible with an MMO: The single player experience.
The PvP zone designers were on to something, though. Debatable if the format is fitting for an Elder Scrolls game, though. It certainly didn't fit the marketing team.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I'm not saying this is the only flaw of the game, but it's a big one and symptomatic of the big problem with the game's design decisions. Out of all the Elder Scrolls features they chose to place an enourmous amount of work into implementing the one that was the least compatible with an MMO: The single player experience.
The PvP zone designers were on to something, though. Debatable if the format is fitting for an Elder Scrolls game, though. It certainly didn't fit the marketing team.
For me an MMO should be all about options. If you force someone to craft, solo, raid you have a design flaw. Im glad ESO has some great solo content, its where you are forced to play it alone is my problem.
Originally posted by Muppetier Shame it is no longer possible to express an honest opinion of any new game without being labelled a fanboy or hater. Some posts might actually reflect the authors view.
My thoughts exactly. Why does mmorpg.com have to be so supportive of ESO on this anyway? I mean, I understand that some of the hate isn't justified, but that's the case for a lot of games. Personally, I'm so turned off by their business decisions that I refuse to pay for the box. I tried a beta weekend, but wasn't really blown away. Of course an MMORPG is going to be compared to other MMORPGs. Of course people are going to dislike that it's missing some features of other games, such as WoW (for example). That's just the way of it, and there's nothing wrong holding new titles to standards set by old ones. That said, whether someone likes those standards or not is up to them.
TL;DR Some people are gonna love it, let them. Some people are gonna hate it, let them. I just feel like there's really no need for an article commenting on peoples feelings and opinions about the game.
I can understand your frustration as I shelled out 150 for archage's alpha and I am 100% unsatisfied with the game. I was promised a completely new sandbox experience and from what I see so far it's a cross between runes of magic and dragon's prophet (dragon's prophet being better then archage). The combat and graphics suck- it's 2014 not 2005.
I am also not happy with my recent purchase of guild wars 2. Supposed to be the best mmo of 2012 and I just can't find the enjoyment in a non sandbox game. So far I blew 200 bucks for nothing.
I hear I am supposed to buy wildstar but I am refusing. I am not a fan of sci-fi fantasy. This is a far stretch to be called anything like world of Warcraft as wow had no sci-fi. If anything it is a clone of allods online.
My expectations are, however, set high for everquest next. I believe this is the type of sandbox I can enjoy. It appears it will have everything archage already has but more control of the sandbox elements with the latest technology like destructible enviroments and smart ui. They will also follow up on that with storyline- best of both worlds.
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Don't accept sloppy games or you'll allow for the continuation of sloppy games.
This so much. That's one of the main problems with MMOs these days. With all these MMO hoppers who played/tried every single MMO on the market, no wonder why we still have those crappy games. Devs know that most people will follow the hype and play no matter what, even if they end up crying on how the game is bad and stop playing down the road.
The ESO hate comes mostly from people who had big expectation (they wanted a REAL ES experience, not some same old themepark crap with an ES skin) and the people who understand that this game doesn't deserve a sub price at all. ESO is a good game for what it is (minus the sub part), but it should've been way more than that.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Most people admit it's a less then stellar cash in/rip off, but there are indeed a few die hards that plug their ears while screaming:
"LA LA LA LA LA! I'm not listening!!!!"
The only question is how long it takes before it goes F2P either way..
You can love it all you want, but saying something like "HATERS!! You're just JELLY!!!!" is about as stupid as that South Park episode pointed out last season..
"hate" huh? What a convenient word. Oh look someone said something I don't like about something I like........"HATERS GONNA HATE" One thing I've noticed a lot, the ones who use that term the most are generally the ones who abuse the hate. Even just saying the word "hater" is an attack on a person.
Someone makes what they believe to be a justified criticism, not even born out of hatred, but what immediately ensues is a laundry list of all kinds of personal attacks against the poster. And that's against a person not a game.......Which is the true hate?
Anyway, one reason for the criticism.....not the hate....is because there is a huge difference between the unrealistic expectation that a game be bug free before it launches and the realistic expectation that a game be properly QA'd before it launches. And over and over, I have seen the answer to the 1st point being used as the answer to the 2nd.
ESO is a step in the right direction and for all future MMOs.
Come on MMORPG.com, who's the editor that let this freelance writer shovel this drivel...
I actually agree with this post, as much as it pains me to admit it. I never like to be overly-critical, but this is just plain untrue. If MMORPG's started being like this, I'd have to leave the genre, and I've never considered doing that in over a decade.
The article as a whole, while a very few things I agree about (e.g., hating the term 'WoW clone), just seems plain wrong. Best I can give it is highly opinionative and left me just shaking my head.
I'm a hater. I'm glad people are enjoying it and I don't want to spew hate but I do hate it. I hate it because of their overall design direction. I hate it because (I feel) it doesn't represent TES at all. I hate it because this could have been an epic game that reflected the strengths of the original series. I hate it because I love TES and I've hated this game before it was cool to hate this game.
I could keep going on but it doesn't really do any good. This is only my opinion and while it may be shared by others, that does not define the game. Again, I'm glad people are enjoying it and I hope Zenimax continues to make improvements but nothing short of a total redesign would change the amount of hate I have for this game.
As others have said, but it bears repeating so maybe some GAME COMPANY EXEC will read it and have it finally penetrate their thick money-encrusted skulls....
In 2014, releasing an unfinished and buggy game or a game that lacks the common quality-of-life features that other games have developed and perfected over the last 15 years is STUPID.
I understand that game studios are cowards. They are too afraid of potential litigation to build on existing systems that other games already perfected. Even when the studio works for the same company, they still feel compelled to reinvent the wheel instead of borrowing from their own stable. BUT, there's no excuse for ignoring features entirely and not finding a way to re-imagine them that still works.
How many times are we going to have to put up with clunky inventory systems, dumb-as-a-rock AI, and player trading that assumes you have as much real-life time as your character's have in-game time to stand around and hawk your wares for hours on end?
The last few years have been horrible for gamers. We've seen companies become more greedy, expecting people to pre-purchase their game up-front, and now getting people to pay even more money to get into their alpha/beta tests by calling them "founder's packs". It just further encourages them to not bother polishing or fixing things, since they can take your money without needing to do so, and maybe get around to it later.... if they feel like it.
So, while I've always been a fan of the subscription model, I have to say that I'll never again buy into a game until a few months after launch. The fun of being in that initial rush to see the shiny new content has been dwarfed by the annoyance of dealing with unfinished products that probably won't be close to what the devs wanted them to be for months. TESO might turn into a good game, but like so many others... it's not there yet. I'm not so desperate that I need to give them money AND be their QA staff too.
I look forward to games getting a lot of hate these days. It means the companies are doing something right because people are playing. It's when no one is talking about a game that it's actually a problem and in trouble.
It's the usual chorus of whines, nothing more, nothing less.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
ESO is a step in the right direction and for all future MMOs.
Come on MMORPG.com, who's the editor that let this freelance writer shovel this drivel...
I actually agree with this post, as much as it pains me to admit it. I never like to be overly-critical, but this is just plain untrue. If MMORPG's started being like this, I'd have to leave the genre, and I've never considered doing that in over a decade.
The article as a whole, while a very few things I agree about (e.g., hating the term 'WoW clone), just seems plain wrong. Best I can give it is highly opinionative and left me just shaking my head.
I think one of the things that article forgot to say "it happens, what you gonna do" is that gold spammers are posting in the official forums right now.
But it happens, what you gonna do. It is the right direction.
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
I look forward to games getting a lot of hate these days. It means the companies are doing something right because people are playing. It's when no one is talking about a game that it's actually a problem and in trouble.
It's the usual chorus of whines, nothing more, nothing less.
Ya I dont mind someone saying they hate a game, but when 4 months later that same 10 people on the forums jumps on anyone that says they love x,y,z game because they like something else. I do tend to wana punch them in the face. Maybe thats just my personal flaw lol
Comments
Or maybe it's just a lackluster game that isn't "the mmo elder scrolls fans have been waiting for."
Can't possibly be it, right? Maybe a few more apologist pieces will convince the disappointed ES fans they're wrong, and they'll finally accept it for what it is. A mediocre MMO that attempts to capture the ES "feel", while trying not to diverge to far from the "typical" MMO experience.
Remember, according to Firor, the game needed to be familiar to people who played WoW in order for us to understand how to play it.
You're spot on FlyByKnight. I've been a big fan of TES games from Daggerfall and a fan of MMORPG's since Everquest. So this game should have been perfect for me but I just couldn't justify the cost with all the problems at release. The real draw for my wife and I would have been to duo our way through the PvE content. We've all seen the problems with this since beta. We're very disappointed to have to wait until this is fixed. We'll take a look at it again in a year or so.
Lol, yes, both games were expensive, but they are just the tip of the iceberg my friend. The $100 million game is becoming more common place. Things just get more expensive. It's not about throwing in a cinematic that kills it. It's inflation.
Here's a great scenario. I don't know what you do, but let's say I'm your boss. I come in this morning and I say that I'm going to cut your salary by a third. Oh, and then I'm not going to be giving you a raise for the next 20 years either. What are you going to do? I know what I'd do, I'd scrawl my resignation on the nearest post-it and GTFO. That's what I'm saying. Game prices aren't inflating to meet the market price of talent.
Sure, you could outsource to China and probably get the same job done for a quarter of the price, but the moment someone like ZOS mentions such a thing, the bleeding-heart patriots are out in full-force talking about how they're going to boycott ZOS because they're taking away American jobs! Look at both ESO and SWTOR. Both were developed in North America.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want game prices to increase, but cutting cinematics isn't the silver bullet that's going to save all the problems in the game industry, either. Every one of us should be thankful that we only pay $60 for a game.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I'm not saying this is the only flaw of the game, but it's a big one and symptomatic of the big problem with the game's design decisions. Out of all the Elder Scrolls features they chose to place an enourmous amount of work into implementing the one that was the least compatible with an MMO: The single player experience.
The PvP zone designers were on to something, though. Debatable if the format is fitting for an Elder Scrolls game, though. It certainly didn't fit the marketing team.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
For me an MMO should be all about options. If you force someone to craft, solo, raid you have a design flaw. Im glad ESO has some great solo content, its where you are forced to play it alone is my problem.
My thoughts exactly. Why does mmorpg.com have to be so supportive of ESO on this anyway? I mean, I understand that some of the hate isn't justified, but that's the case for a lot of games. Personally, I'm so turned off by their business decisions that I refuse to pay for the box. I tried a beta weekend, but wasn't really blown away. Of course an MMORPG is going to be compared to other MMORPGs. Of course people are going to dislike that it's missing some features of other games, such as WoW (for example). That's just the way of it, and there's nothing wrong holding new titles to standards set by old ones. That said, whether someone likes those standards or not is up to them.
TL;DR Some people are gonna love it, let them. Some people are gonna hate it, let them. I just feel like there's really no need for an article commenting on peoples feelings and opinions about the game.
I can understand your frustration as I shelled out 150 for archage's alpha and I am 100% unsatisfied with the game. I was promised a completely new sandbox experience and from what I see so far it's a cross between runes of magic and dragon's prophet (dragon's prophet being better then archage). The combat and graphics suck- it's 2014 not 2005.
I am also not happy with my recent purchase of guild wars 2. Supposed to be the best mmo of 2012 and I just can't find the enjoyment in a non sandbox game. So far I blew 200 bucks for nothing.
I hear I am supposed to buy wildstar but I am refusing. I am not a fan of sci-fi fantasy. This is a far stretch to be called anything like world of Warcraft as wow had no sci-fi. If anything it is a clone of allods online.
My expectations are, however, set high for everquest next. I believe this is the type of sandbox I can enjoy. It appears it will have everything archage already has but more control of the sandbox elements with the latest technology like destructible enviroments and smart ui. They will also follow up on that with storyline- best of both worlds.
This so much. That's one of the main problems with MMOs these days. With all these MMO hoppers who played/tried every single MMO on the market, no wonder why we still have those crappy games. Devs know that most people will follow the hype and play no matter what, even if they end up crying on how the game is bad and stop playing down the road.
The ESO hate comes mostly from people who had big expectation (they wanted a REAL ES experience, not some same old themepark crap with an ES skin) and the people who understand that this game doesn't deserve a sub price at all. ESO is a good game for what it is (minus the sub part), but it should've been way more than that.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
ESO is a step in the right direction and for all future MMOs.
Come on MMORPG.com, who's the editor that let this freelance writer shovel this drivel...
Most people admit it's a less then stellar cash in/rip off, but there are indeed a few die hards that plug their ears while screaming:
"LA LA LA LA LA! I'm not listening!!!!"
The only question is how long it takes before it goes F2P either way..
You can love it all you want, but saying something like "HATERS!! You're just JELLY!!!!" is about as stupid as that South Park episode pointed out last season..
"hate" huh? What a convenient word. Oh look someone said something I don't like about something I like........"HATERS GONNA HATE" One thing I've noticed a lot, the ones who use that term the most are generally the ones who abuse the hate. Even just saying the word "hater" is an attack on a person.
Someone makes what they believe to be a justified criticism, not even born out of hatred, but what immediately ensues is a laundry list of all kinds of personal attacks against the poster. And that's against a person not a game.......Which is the true hate?
Anyway, one reason for the criticism.....not the hate....is because there is a huge difference between the unrealistic expectation that a game be bug free before it launches and the realistic expectation that a game be properly QA'd before it launches. And over and over, I have seen the answer to the 1st point being used as the answer to the 2nd.
I actually agree with this post, as much as it pains me to admit it. I never like to be overly-critical, but this is just plain untrue. If MMORPG's started being like this, I'd have to leave the genre, and I've never considered doing that in over a decade.
The article as a whole, while a very few things I agree about (e.g., hating the term 'WoW clone), just seems plain wrong. Best I can give it is highly opinionative and left me just shaking my head.
I'm a hater. I'm glad people are enjoying it and I don't want to spew hate but I do hate it. I hate it because of their overall design direction. I hate it because (I feel) it doesn't represent TES at all. I hate it because this could have been an epic game that reflected the strengths of the original series. I hate it because I love TES and I've hated this game before it was cool to hate this game.
I could keep going on but it doesn't really do any good. This is only my opinion and while it may be shared by others, that does not define the game. Again, I'm glad people are enjoying it and I hope Zenimax continues to make improvements but nothing short of a total redesign would change the amount of hate I have for this game.
As others have said, but it bears repeating so maybe some GAME COMPANY EXEC will read it and have it finally penetrate their thick money-encrusted skulls....
In 2014, releasing an unfinished and buggy game or a game that lacks the common quality-of-life features that other games have developed and perfected over the last 15 years is STUPID.
I understand that game studios are cowards. They are too afraid of potential litigation to build on existing systems that other games already perfected. Even when the studio works for the same company, they still feel compelled to reinvent the wheel instead of borrowing from their own stable. BUT, there's no excuse for ignoring features entirely and not finding a way to re-imagine them that still works.
How many times are we going to have to put up with clunky inventory systems, dumb-as-a-rock AI, and player trading that assumes you have as much real-life time as your character's have in-game time to stand around and hawk your wares for hours on end?
The last few years have been horrible for gamers. We've seen companies become more greedy, expecting people to pre-purchase their game up-front, and now getting people to pay even more money to get into their alpha/beta tests by calling them "founder's packs". It just further encourages them to not bother polishing or fixing things, since they can take your money without needing to do so, and maybe get around to it later.... if they feel like it.
So, while I've always been a fan of the subscription model, I have to say that I'll never again buy into a game until a few months after launch. The fun of being in that initial rush to see the shiny new content has been dwarfed by the annoyance of dealing with unfinished products that probably won't be close to what the devs wanted them to be for months. TESO might turn into a good game, but like so many others... it's not there yet. I'm not so desperate that I need to give them money AND be their QA staff too.
I look forward to games getting a lot of hate these days. It means the companies are doing something right because people are playing. It's when no one is talking about a game that it's actually a problem and in trouble.
It's the usual chorus of whines, nothing more, nothing less.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
I think one of the things that article forgot to say "it happens, what you gonna do" is that gold spammers are posting in the official forums right now.
But it happens, what you gonna do. It is the right direction.
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
Ya I dont mind someone saying they hate a game, but when 4 months later that same 10 people on the forums jumps on anyone that says they love x,y,z game because they like something else. I do tend to wana punch them in the face. Maybe thats just my personal flaw lol