Originally posted by kitarad They would not have hoodwinked the number they currently have to purchase the game. Most purchased it because of the Skyrim connection. Without it I doubt it would have sold as much.
They sold it as "Skyrim" while whispering that it was an MMO and would play as such.
If the game had no title at all, it would still be the same game.
All MMOs are merely templates of the same game. You could instantly change WoW into a cowboy and indian western or a pirate MMO merely by slapping on a different coat of paint. The game itself is the same, the appearance of it is what has changed. Lore? Insert pirate names and locales and poof the lore is now about pirates. It's really all just a template.
LOL, it would be interesting to see an MMO go from an asian theme, to a western, to a space opera, to fantasy with each expansion just to prove to everyone that they really are only skin deep.
Ultimately I don't think so. They might have gotten less hate and a lot more indifference, but at the cost of selling far fewer boxes and not having a snowball's chance in hell of selling squat on consoles. With or without the ES name they would have had the same litany of problems, problems that ultimately were going to sink the ship regardless.
Not being "Skyrim Online" they could recover from, I don't think ultimately it really would have mattered. Even the extraordinarily poor handling of a launch they had to know was going to be buggy as an antfarm was recoverable, albeit not without a certain degree of self-inflicted harm to the game. Lacking focus, play variety, or any semblance of a meaningful endgame at launch? Not so much.
I've yet to see a game recover from launching with too little endgame, let alone the utter lack of one.
Originally posted by kitarad They would not have hoodwinked the number they currently have to purchase the game. Most purchased it because of the Skyrim connection. Without it I doubt it would have sold as much.
Money Grab Plan Achieved!
Without the Elder Scrolls (connection, they would not have sold so many copies.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
It wouldn't be a better game without the ES IP. It wouldn't have sold nearly as much without the ES IP. It wouldn't have received as much "hate" without the ES IP as it's receiving now .
It would just be a mediocre MMO very few people would care about and it would be F2P from the start.
But that might be the the issue.
We don't know how many copies ESO as sold on pc. The game as gained alot of attention from it's IP, but that attention is mostly negative or mixed because of said brand.
If ESO didn't have TES name or mechanics that it tries to emulate, it might have actually sold more if it had the marketing PR, since it wouldn't receive the backlash.
I guess it's better to use the IP and get the initial box sales, than to not get the initial box sales everything is riding on.
Would you rather have a TSW that has to make serious cuts because the initial box sales weren't what they hoped for, or an SWTOR that sells tons of boxes that can't be retained and turned into subs?
Even negative attention might be better than no attention.
Originally posted by kitarad They would not have hoodwinked the number they currently have to purchase the game. Most purchased it because of the Skyrim connection. Without it I doubt it would have sold as much.
Money Grab Plan Achieved!
Without the Elder Scrolls (connection, they would not have sold so many copies.
There were multiple beta weekends for people to participate in. There were also a ton of streams and all kinds of info on the game and even the issues that people were having in the beta. So no money grab In my opinion, people can only blame others for so long before they start taking responsibility as consumers and do some research. If you are told shown and given a chance to experience something how is it a money grab or how have you been hoodwinked if you purchase it just because of the IP?
A person who plays single player games and does not play MMOs will not be aware of betas or get invited to them .They go to a store and pick up a game based on the name. Those people would have been hoodwinked if they expected a Skyrim like game. In fact most of the complaints on Metacritic seem to be exactly that so your assumption that they had prior warning from the beta is not entirely valid
Originally posted by kitarad A person who plays single player games and does not play MMOs will not be aware of betas or get invited to them .They go to a store and pick up a game based on the name. Those people would have been hoodwinked if they expected a Skyrim like game. In fact most of the complaints on Metacritic seem to be exactly that so your assumption that they had prior warning from the beta is not entirely valid
I said betas, streams and plenty of info about the game is and was available for someone to find with just a little effort on their part, there is no arguing against that fact. They have no one to blame but themselves if they did no research before purchasing. It's called consumer awareness and responsibility. There is nothing underhanded or hoodwinking about it.
Then it would feel wierd and I would start to think they stole that Elder Scrolls fibe and tagged their own IP to it. Simply because it's a MMORPG that I can not compare to it's singleplayer series. But the feel is there for me.
To be fair do you honestly think Zenimax was not banking on their single player base to buy this game based on their prior single player games ? Why would they not expect single player gamers to buy the game if they ingeniously call it ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE. It's definitely a ploy and by golly it worked as evidenced by the complaints on Metacritic. Why do even reviewers who review this game complain about it not being what they expected an Elder Scroll game to be like. Why would they feel cheated ? I am of the opinion that calling it Elder Scrolls Online was a ploy and it worked.
It would have sold 1/10th the box sales but it would have more respect from the MMO community because it didn't botch one of the biggest names of all time.
The problem isn't that it's a bad game, the problem is it's bad compared to Skyrim. But that's the power of having a big name behind your game. Even if you do terribly you will sell 10x as many copies because raging fanboi's will defend the name, not the game itself. In part, the fanboi's are actually to blame for why inexperience companies abuse big names to collect $$.
So I just came across a thread and it got me thinking. What if ESO was actually called something other than Elder Scrolls Online or had nothing to do with the Elder Scrolls IP and was a completely new IP for ZOS?
It would probably receive less vitriol and direct hatred if it hadn't adopted the Elder Scrolls IP. However apart from that,how would it gain attention? It would be another Darkfall or something.
Aside from guiding IPs, it's not a good either way. The core mechanics are off - like grouping and character development. There's smaller titles that offer more and for less.
Then it would feel wierd and I would start to think they stole that Elder Scrolls fibe and tagged their own IP to it. Simply because it's a MMORPG that I can not compare to it's singleplayer series. But the feel is there for me.
^This
I know this is an elder scrolls game every time I log in. It feels like elder scrolls in MMO form to me and to plenty of others.
wouldnt that be the same for wow too? i mean..not many would have drifted to or play wow if it wasnt for their hugely popular RTS? everything has to start somewhere i guess..im sure if it wasnt named ESO alot of thing woulda been done different
and im sure alot of ppl didnt know what wow was and played it and liked it..same with ESO i know some pppl that are playing and dont or havent played skyrim and like it...hell i havent played a ES game sence marrowind cuz imo obliv / skyrim was trash console money grabs or modded to the bone on pc
It always felt like Firor wanted to create a really cool 3-faction PvP game, and had Paul Sage building the mmo PvE-side, with bethesda dictating it should be more like an elder scrolls game that were available to solo-players, so without the elder scrolls it feels like they could deliver a better 3-faction game and also a better MMO instead of trying to satisfy the elder scrolls fans and console players.
With that said, if you take the current game and remove the IP it would have been a huge flop, just like the secret world was. My friends that play ESO would never have bought it if it hadn't been for it being elder scrolls.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
wouldnt that be the same for wow too? i mean..not many would have drifted to or play wow if it wasnt for their hugely popular RTS? everything has to start somewhere i guess..im sure if it wasnt named ESO alot of thing woulda been done different
and im sure alot of ppl didnt know what wow was and played it and liked it..same with ESO i know some pppl that are playing and dont or havent played skyrim and like it...hell i havent played a ES game sence marrowind cuz imo obliv / skyrim was trash console money grabs or modded to the bone on pc
You are right. I was thinking the same thing about WoW and of course SWTOR. Who knows? But true, a lot more people played WoW initially than the Warcraft RTS and so WoW was their first taste into that lore setting. Heck for most it was their first taste into MMOs in general.
However, since you haven't played Oblivion or Skyrim yet, then I recommend you give them a shot at some point down the road. I think you will see that Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim have a lot in common when it comes to game play. There are several differences too like how stats work in all o fthem, but the main differences between Morrowind and the other two is the switch to manually blocking attacks, arrows with physics, and manually aiming your attacks with out tab targeting or soft targeting.
Originally posted by kitarad They would not have hoodwinked the number they currently have to purchase the game. Most purchased it because of the Skyrim connection. Without it I doubt it would have sold as much.
Money Grab Plan Achieved!Without the Elder Scrolls (connection, they would not have sold so many copies.
There were multiple beta weekends for people to participate in. There were also a ton of streams and all kinds of info on the game and even the issues that people were having in the beta. So no money grab In my opinion, people can only blame others for so long before they start taking responsibility as consumers and do some research. If you are told shown and given a chance to experience something how is it a money grab or how have you been hoodwinked if you purchase it just because of the IP?
You are entitled to you opinion, of course. I disagree.
What percentage of the tens of millions of players do you think actually sought information, got into betas, or watched videos? A very small percentage even visit message boards. A huge percentage may watch YouTube, but they are seeking cute cat videos.
There were about 20-50 posters here at MMORPG.com following and discussing it regularly. There may have been more lurking, but even here, out of the over 2.5 million members, a minute percentage showed interest.
Ask yourself, first and foremost, "Why did make an ES:O MMO instead of a new IP based off of DAoC mechanics?" There is one reason, and one reason only, in my mind: Cash in on the IP.
Then they "sell" players the 10th (previously unavailable) race, Imperials, in a Collector's Edition. This in a fully priced, subscription based MMO.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I will disagree.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
So I just came across a thread and it got me thinking. What if ESO was actually called something other than Elder Scrolls Online or had nothing to do with the Elder Scrolls IP and was a completely new IP for ZOS?
Put the word sandbox in the name and people here would cream in there pants and give the game a 9.9 lol.
Ummm no. The fact we were expecting more of a sandbox TES experience and did not get it is why the game is so heavily criticized in the first place.
Originally posted by BurntCabbage wouldnt that be the same for wow too? i mean..not many would have drifted to or play wow if it wasnt for their hugely popular RTS? everything has to start somewhere i guess..im sure if it wasnt named ESO alot of thing woulda been done different and im sure alot of ppl didnt know what wow was and played it and liked it..same with ESO i know some pppl that are playing and dont or havent played skyrim and like it...hell i havent played a ES game sence marrowind cuz imo obliv / skyrim was trash console money grabs or modded to the bone on pc
You are right. I was thinking the same thing about WoW and of course SWTOR. Who knows? But true, a lot more people played WoW initially than the Warcraft RTS and so WoW was their first taste into that lore setting. Heck for most it was their first taste into MMOs in general. However, since you haven't played Oblivion or Skyrim yet, then I recommend you give them a shot at some point down the road. I think you will see that Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim have a lot in common when it comes to game play. There are several differences too like how stats work in all o fthem, but the main differences between Morrowind and the other two is the switch to manually blocking attacks, arrows with physics, and manually aiming your attacks with out tab targeting or soft targeting.
WoW did NOT create a Massively Multi-Player RTS game. They took the franchise in whole new direction. There is no comparison between WarCraft: Orcs and Humans and World of Warcraft. THAT is the difference.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I only put no because the only reason I wanted to play it was because of ESO lore and world. It brought me back to MMO's though, so that's a great thing. Really enjoy the game
If you are playing it right now just because it has "Elder Scrolls" on the name and not because you are having fun, then theres something wrong with you. If it didn't have the name the only thing that would change would be the reviewers expectations being different and that they would have a harder time marketing the game, TES is famous enough to make people think twice before dismissing any ads.
No, no matter what the name on this game is, dosnt change the fact the combat is not my thing, theres no endgame, loot on mobs is boring, from what I understand even bosses drop coins and other random useless junk.
theres tons of bots , some places so crowded with bots you cant even get your kills
theres many other reasons why this game is not for me.
Comments
They sold it as "Skyrim" while whispering that it was an MMO and would play as such.
If the game had no title at all, it would still be the same game.
All MMOs are merely templates of the same game. You could instantly change WoW into a cowboy and indian western or a pirate MMO merely by slapping on a different coat of paint. The game itself is the same, the appearance of it is what has changed. Lore? Insert pirate names and locales and poof the lore is now about pirates. It's really all just a template.
LOL, it would be interesting to see an MMO go from an asian theme, to a western, to a space opera, to fantasy with each expansion just to prove to everyone that they really are only skin deep.
Ultimately I don't think so. They might have gotten less hate and a lot more indifference, but at the cost of selling far fewer boxes and not having a snowball's chance in hell of selling squat on consoles. With or without the ES name they would have had the same litany of problems, problems that ultimately were going to sink the ship regardless.
Not being "Skyrim Online" they could recover from, I don't think ultimately it really would have mattered. Even the extraordinarily poor handling of a launch they had to know was going to be buggy as an antfarm was recoverable, albeit not without a certain degree of self-inflicted harm to the game. Lacking focus, play variety, or any semblance of a meaningful endgame at launch? Not so much.
I've yet to see a game recover from launching with too little endgame, let alone the utter lack of one.
Without the Elder Scrolls (connection, they would not have sold so many copies.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I guess it's better to use the IP and get the initial box sales, than to not get the initial box sales everything is riding on.
Would you rather have a TSW that has to make serious cuts because the initial box sales weren't what they hoped for, or an SWTOR that sells tons of boxes that can't be retained and turned into subs?
Even negative attention might be better than no attention.
There were multiple beta weekends for people to participate in. There were also a ton of streams and all kinds of info on the game and even the issues that people were having in the beta. So no money grab In my opinion, people can only blame others for so long before they start taking responsibility as consumers and do some research. If you are told shown and given a chance to experience something how is it a money grab or how have you been hoodwinked if you purchase it just because of the IP?
No signature, I don't have a pen
I said betas, streams and plenty of info about the game is and was available for someone to find with just a little effort on their part, there is no arguing against that fact. They have no one to blame but themselves if they did no research before purchasing. It's called consumer awareness and responsibility. There is nothing underhanded or hoodwinking about it.
No signature, I don't have a pen
And you mean everthing ingame is as is?
Then it would feel wierd and I would start to think they stole that Elder Scrolls fibe and tagged their own IP to it. Simply because it's a MMORPG that I can not compare to it's singleplayer series. But the feel is there for me.
It would have sold 1/10th the box sales but it would have more respect from the MMO community because it didn't botch one of the biggest names of all time.
The problem isn't that it's a bad game, the problem is it's bad compared to Skyrim. But that's the power of having a big name behind your game. Even if you do terribly you will sell 10x as many copies because raging fanboi's will defend the name, not the game itself. In part, the fanboi's are actually to blame for why inexperience companies abuse big names to collect $$.
It would probably receive less vitriol and direct hatred if it hadn't adopted the Elder Scrolls IP. However apart from that,how would it gain attention? It would be another Darkfall or something.
Aside from guiding IPs, it's not a good either way. The core mechanics are off - like grouping and character development. There's smaller titles that offer more and for less.
My mind has been blown.
^This
I know this is an elder scrolls game every time I log in. It feels like elder scrolls in MMO form to me and to plenty of others.
No signature, I don't have a pen
wouldnt that be the same for wow too? i mean..not many would have drifted to or play wow if it wasnt for their hugely popular RTS? everything has to start somewhere i guess..im sure if it wasnt named ESO alot of thing woulda been done different
and im sure alot of ppl didnt know what wow was and played it and liked it..same with ESO i know some pppl that are playing and dont or havent played skyrim and like it...hell i havent played a ES game sence marrowind cuz imo obliv / skyrim was trash console money grabs or modded to the bone on pc
It always felt like Firor wanted to create a really cool 3-faction PvP game, and had Paul Sage building the mmo PvE-side, with bethesda dictating it should be more like an elder scrolls game that were available to solo-players, so without the elder scrolls it feels like they could deliver a better 3-faction game and also a better MMO instead of trying to satisfy the elder scrolls fans and console players.
With that said, if you take the current game and remove the IP it would have been a huge flop, just like the secret world was. My friends that play ESO would never have bought it if it hadn't been for it being elder scrolls.
You are right. I was thinking the same thing about WoW and of course SWTOR. Who knows? But true, a lot more people played WoW initially than the Warcraft RTS and so WoW was their first taste into that lore setting. Heck for most it was their first taste into MMOs in general.
However, since you haven't played Oblivion or Skyrim yet, then I recommend you give them a shot at some point down the road. I think you will see that Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim have a lot in common when it comes to game play. There are several differences too like how stats work in all o fthem, but the main differences between Morrowind and the other two is the switch to manually blocking attacks, arrows with physics, and manually aiming your attacks with out tab targeting or soft targeting.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
What percentage of the tens of millions of players do you think actually sought information, got into betas, or watched videos? A very small percentage even visit message boards. A huge percentage may watch YouTube, but they are seeking cute cat videos.
There were about 20-50 posters here at MMORPG.com following and discussing it regularly. There may have been more lurking, but even here, out of the over 2.5 million members, a minute percentage showed interest.
Ask yourself, first and foremost, "Why did make an ES:O MMO instead of a new IP based off of DAoC mechanics?" There is one reason, and one reason only, in my mind: Cash in on the IP.
Then they "sell" players the 10th (previously unavailable) race, Imperials, in a Collector's Edition. This in a fully priced, subscription based MMO.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I will disagree.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Ummm no. The fact we were expecting more of a sandbox TES experience and did not get it is why the game is so heavily criticized in the first place.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I only put no because the only reason I wanted to play it was because of ESO lore and world. It brought me back to MMO's though, so that's a great thing. Really enjoy the game
Yes.
If you are playing it right now just because it has "Elder Scrolls" on the name and not because you are having fun, then theres something wrong with you. If it didn't have the name the only thing that would change would be the reviewers expectations being different and that they would have a harder time marketing the game, TES is famous enough to make people think twice before dismissing any ads.
No, no matter what the name on this game is, dosnt change the fact the combat is not my thing, theres no endgame, loot on mobs is boring, from what I understand even bosses drop coins and other random useless junk.
theres tons of bots , some places so crowded with bots you cant even get your kills
theres many other reasons why this game is not for me.
Feels like watching Weekend at Bernies. The IP propping this dead boring game up can only do so much, just like the poor saps in this movie.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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