Crap... This sounds alot like Age of Wushu where you also were limited to the amount of crafting/gathering you could do each day. Dunno why they have stupid shit like that. If some1 wanna be a dedicated crafter in a sandbox, they need to be able to be that, and not have some silly labor points hindering them. Item decay is they way to go 7 days a week. Now I'm not sosure I will get it anymore.
As a newbie I sold my labour to a vet last night, because he needed iron smelted and trees felled.
This is why labour points are a great system. They give everyone something to sell that has value to even the richest, and they make interaction between the high and low levels needed.
Your labour points are a cap on what *you* can personally do, not what you can achieve. it's a great system if you stop thinking traditionally
And it all encourages people to buy labor Point potions to use and to sell. Fantastic system...for XL/Trion.
ArcheAge's crafting is WoW crafting with RNG procs.
You gather the mats, click, and no fail combine. You cant influence the outcome in any way.
The game has a lot of options to craft, but the actual process of crafting an item is standard and boring.
It is about as far from SWG as you can get.
If you like to make money by crafting but dont care about the process AA will be fantastic. If SWG and VG drew you in with the depth and control of their craft systems ArcheAge's crafting will be a total disappointment.
Originally posted by dandurin You're entitled to your own dictionary, but don't expect other people to use it. The fact is that the term "sandbox feature" is a very useful and descriptive, while the term "sandbox game" is vague and leads to flame wars. For instance Some people claim EQ was a sandbox game, others claim this is ridiculous. I hope you can manage to contribute more to this discussion than "you can't disagree with me because I am right".
"Sandbox feature" makes no sense by definition of those 2 terms - design and feature.
Again, if you do not understand what those terms means, do not use them.
You're entitled to your own dictionary, but don't expect other people to use it.
The fact is that the term "sandbox feature" is a very useful and descriptive, while the term "sandbox game" is vague and leads to flame wars. For instance Some people claim EQ was a sandbox game, others claim this is ridiculous.
I hope you can manage to contribute more to this discussion than "you can't disagree with me because I am right".
We have a troll here. Gdemami is derailing a thread to discuss a matter that has already been laid to rest is not useful unless you are a troll.
Anyhow....I would address the subjects above the troll post and just say that you can only expect so much from a game.
I played the crafting mini games in Vanguard and didn't find them to be impressive. To be honest the system sounded close to what is being offered here. Basically you gather and sometimes get a rare ingredient. Then you craft and have a chance to make a better than average finished product. Only difference was there was a mini game to play in Vanguard similar to Everquest 2 crafting system. This was a bit sloppy in my opinion and would not really be reflected in the real world making the same thing. It was more of a time sink and not needed. If I were A. D.D. I could understand the need and for many that suffer from it, I am happy you have games to meet that need. For the rest of us the Wow style with a bit more detail is not so bad.
You're entitled to your own dictionary, but don't expect other people to use it.
The fact is that the term "sandbox feature" is a very useful and descriptive, while the term "sandbox game" is vague and leads to flame wars. For instance Some people claim EQ was a sandbox game, others claim this is ridiculous.
I hope you can manage to contribute more to this discussion than "you can't disagree with me because I am right".
We have a troll here. Gdemami is derailing a thread to discuss a matter that has already been laid to rest is not useful unless you are a troll.
Anyhow....I would address the subjects above the troll post and just say that you can only expect so much from a game.
I played the crafting mini games in Vanguard and didn't find them to be impressive. To be honest the system sounded close to what is being offered here. Basically you gather and sometimes get a rare ingredient. Then you craft and have a chance to make a better than average finished product. Only difference was there was a mini game to play in Vanguard similar to Everquest 2 crafting system. This was a bit sloppy in my opinion and would not really be reflected in the real world making the same thing. It was more of a time sink and not needed. If I were A. D.D. I could understand the need and for many that suffer from it, I am happy you have games to meet that need. For the rest of us the Wow style with a bit more detail is not so bad.
Vanguard was nothing at all like EQ2. EQ2's minigame is terrible, because its almost impossible to fail. Its just extra tedium.
Vanguards was different because ti made you work for the high quality items. there was certainly strategy involved. I wont disagree that leveling it was a huge grind, but that was due to the work order system not the craft process. FFXIV actually has a pretty nice watered down version of VG's item making.
The major disappointment with AA crafting is that there is zero skill element involved to it. The farming aspect is neat and at least the material gathering isnt quite so simplistic, but the crafting itself is not one of the game's strong points which is disappointing for a game with a craft based economy.
You're entitled to your own dictionary, but don't expect other people to use it.
The fact is that the term "sandbox feature" is a very useful and descriptive, while the term "sandbox game" is vague and leads to flame wars. For instance Some people claim EQ was a sandbox game, others claim this is ridiculous.
I hope you can manage to contribute more to this discussion than "you can't disagree with me because I am right".
"Sandbox feature" makes no sense by definition of those 2 terms - design and feature.
Again, if you do not understand what those terms means, do not use them.
I've concluded from this thread that you think pithy, dismissive answers make you look smart.
Unfortunately you continue to fail to provide any reason for readers to accept your definitions. In fact you haven't even defined the term "sandbox", you've merely belittled people for using their definitions. With all your talk of "sandbox design", one would think you'd actually present what "sandbox design" means to you, but perhaps you are afraid of the kind of criticism you like to dish out.
If I go to sandboxer.org for instance, there's an essay on what they think makes a sandbox a sandbox. It's not definitive, but it's more than what you've provided.
Randomly generated resource spawns + random quantity retrieved + random for rare drop of resource.
Player driven resources mostly logs, pelts, food 90% of ingredients come from player generation.
World region specializations, some regions have ingredients that only spawn in that location, other have specific items that can only be produce in X location, therefore increasing demand the further you are away from the source.
You can attach stats to your items think alchemy/magic skills make them.
You need to transport goods from place to place(logistics) something SWG had in a very limited way in SWG you carry 1000 tons on your character here you need mules, make convoys or transport them via sea or air.
High end products require high investment monetary and gameplay time.
(maybe more but I haven't even reach lvl 20)
Now tell me why is it ridiculous compared to SWG?
Originally posted by dumpcat The Repopulation is probably going to be the closest game to SWG.
Agree thought SWGEmu is closer XD
ASROCK Z97 E-ITX Intel i7 4790k @ 4.5Ghz+KrakenX41 Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC 16GB Crucial 1333mhz 1.3V SWG 8 Year Vet, WW2OL 8 Year Vet. Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
Randomly generated resource spawns + random quantity retrieved + random for rare drop of resource.
Player driven resources mostly logs, pelts, food 90% of ingredients come from player generation.
World region specializations, some regions have ingredients that only spawn in that location, other have specific items that can only be produce in X location, therefore increasing demand the further you are away from the source.
You can attach stats to your items think alchemy/magic skills make them.
You need to transport goods from place to place(logistics) something SWG had in a very limited way in SWG you carry 1000 tons on your character here you need mules, make convoys or transport them via sea or air.
High end products require high investment monetary and gameplay time.
(maybe more but I haven't even reach lvl 20)
Now tell me why is it ridiculous compared to SWG?
Originally posted by dumpcat The Repopulation is probably going to be the closest game to SWG.
Agree thought SWGEmu is closer XD
well for one resources in SWG had stats, disappeared over time, and they werent in static areas. You wanted to find the new resources fast so you can get your harvesters down, and of course you had to balance harvesters, power generators, and factories all competing for your land slots.
But that resource stat system...Different strains of aluminum could be dramatically different from each other. That 998 malleability copper maybe hasnt been seen in months, and you are sitting on a ton of it.
Originally posted by Lahuzer No item decay? For real? In a sandbox? Trion better fix that one...
Ah, let me add this to my list of sandbox requirements. Do you also include player looting on yours?
This again is my issue with people who clamor for sandbox games - nobody can agree on what's required or not.
Item decay is a pain to me and I'm glad it's not in, for the record.
Completely agree. Item decay is a silly artificial thing that makes you not want to play or use your best gear. In just about every game I've played that used item decay players wore 2nd rate gear the majority of the time. It's just an awful way to take items out of circulation when in all actuality the players do a fine job of it themselves when they quit or move on and new players join the game. There is no need for item decay in today's MMO. Like restricted or weight based inventory management it's just a holdover from when games didn't know any better.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
well for one resources in SWG had stats, disappeared over time, and they werent in static areas. You wanted to find the new resources fast so you can get your harvesters down, and of course you had to balance harvesters, power generators, and factories all competing for your land slots.
But that resource stat system...Different strains of aluminum could be dramatically different from each other. That 998 malleability copper maybe hasnt been seen in months, and you are sitting on a ton of it.
Aluminium, iron and copper and other resources do not vary in quality in real life if you smelt making the most pure as possible you will always obtain the same quality.
So SWG resources randomization of stats was kinda dumb it vary from 1 to 999 many times resources sucked and had no value other times some resources did not even spawn so you couldn't build specific items.
In contrast in AA you can sometimes come across pure iron or other metal this simply affects the quantity, normal iron you need 3 pieces to make a ingot with pure you need 1 so this is very realistic.
In archeage you also compete for land slots and in some cases you have to defend them in SWG you just have to be the first to get there, I still think you are the retarded one here nothing of that is unique or better than the current Archeage resource gathering mechanics.
I'm glad that stuff was removed from SWG it sucked big time you might had the best crafted armor ever on the server having spend millions but after a couple of weeks of playing IT WAS GONE!
In AA items do decay when you die but they can be repair, the problem in SWG was that you couldn't repair and when you could you could even broke it more.
ASROCK Z97 E-ITX Intel i7 4790k @ 4.5Ghz+KrakenX41 Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC 16GB Crucial 1333mhz 1.3V SWG 8 Year Vet, WW2OL 8 Year Vet. Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
Not even close, its just blanket stats for the resources and the result of an item created is RNG. There is some depth to the crafting though but the resource gathering is just done by harvesting simple nodes that respawn. They have this system that uses a predtermined cap of points called Labor Points. At max level you have 5k labor points and once its used up you have to wait until they regen to do any crafting,gathering. Labor Points and no item decay is the number one reason why i quit AA already on the alpha. I can't stand it.
As for housing, there are no player vendors and there is an Auction house. Every "sandbox" feature this game has UO,SWG,EVE just do it better.
Just wanted to say, i know you never got to max level because you would know that pvp crafted items decay.
Originally posted by azzamasin Completely agree. Item decay is a silly artificial thing that makes you not want to play or use your best gear. In just about every game I've played that used item decay players wore 2nd rate gear the majority of the time. It's just an awful way to take items out of circulation when in all actuality the players do a fine job of it themselves when they quit or move on and new players join the game. There is no need for item decay in today's MMO. Like restricted or weight based inventory management it's just a holdover from when games didn't know any better.
Yeah, because demand of 1 unit per capita is very much the same as 100 units...
Decay is not a must for an MMO but it is a must for any meanignful, dynamic economy.
Originally posted by Lahuzer No item decay? For real? In a sandbox? Trion better fix that one...
Yup afraid so, i understand the reasoning why they don't but I totally don't agree with it. They put in labor points to create the artificial cap of not allowing people to just flood the market with items. They then made RNG so that the top crafted items in the game are very very very difficult to achieve. They think this will slow people down enough. I believe though that without item decay or items being removed from circulation that the sheer volume of people will eventually craft enough items and the market will be flooded anyways. Its just dumb to because it really really limits my playstyle. I was burning 2-3k labor points in an hour just mining stone for my farmhouse. Then i'd be pretty much left with nothing to do except trade packs and quest grind in the same old linear fashion zone to zone hub style. The pvp for trade packs is the only fun thing to do really once labor points are used up. This artificial cap is a bad idea limiting playtime doing what crafters like to do instead of just having item decay remove items and tweaking RNG. I mentioned this on the forums for AA alot and was basically crucified so whatever. Some agreed and we got a poll that actually was in favor of it but not even a response from Trion so again whatever
Also the trade in this game is extreemly limited. Its just a crafted trade pack you make in a zone then you take it to any trade recipient NPC you want in another zone and he gives you the reward. But like the rewards aren't tradeable their soulbound. The trade never varies or changes like in EVE. The market and trading in EVE completely obliterates AA trade.
Can someone explain to me what is item decay? I held it as the item in question losing durability until it reaches 0 at which point it causes no to minimal damage or breaks.
Items do have some form of decay when you die, but you do have means to pay for repairs. Is that the same thing or related?
well for one resources in SWG had stats, disappeared over time, and they werent in static areas. You wanted to find the new resources fast so you can get your harvesters down, and of course you had to balance harvesters, power generators, and factories all competing for your land slots.
But that resource stat system...Different strains of aluminum could be dramatically different from each other. That 998 malleability copper maybe hasnt been seen in months, and you are sitting on a ton of it.
Aluminium, iron and copper and other resources do not vary in quality in real life if you smelt making the most pure as possible you will always obtain the same quality.
So SWG resources randomization of stats was kinda dumb it vary from 1 to 999 many times resources sucked and had no value other times some resources did not even spawn so you couldn't build specific items.
In contrast in AA you can sometimes come across pure iron or other metal this simply affects the quantity, normal iron you need 3 pieces to make a ingot with pure you need 1 so this is very realistic.
In archeage you also compete for land slots and in some cases you have to defend them in SWG you just have to be the first to get there, I still think you are the retarded one here nothing of that is unique or better than the current Archeage resource gathering mechanics.
When you have to bring up 'its more realistic' to defend your gathering system you know you have a lousy argument. Having to resort to name calling makes it even more obvious. And why would a game that takes place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away care about what iron is like on earth?
Not even close, its just blanket stats for the resources and the result of an item created is RNG. There is some depth to the crafting though but the resource gathering is just done by harvesting simple nodes that respawn. They have this system that uses a predtermined cap of points called Labor Points. At max level you have 5k labor points and once its used up you have to wait until they regen to do any crafting,gathering. Labor Points and no item decay is the number one reason why i quit AA already on the alpha. I can't stand it.
As for housing, there are no player vendors and there is an Auction house. Every "sandbox" feature this game has UO,SWG,EVE just do it better.
Just wanted to say, i know you never got to max level because you would know that pvp crafted items decay.
No thats not true item decay for me sorry. Trivial gold sinks is worthless to me. The decay needs to use mats used in the crafting or the item removed from game completely after so many failed attempts or successes. Just my opinion thouhh but thanks for assuming.
I am glad crafting in this game is nothing like SWG, SWG felt more like a job and took hours and hours a day to make anything of any quality. I do want crafting the best items to take time and be a challenge, but in SWG this left no time really for combat, unless of course you have no job or a life.
Although im not a huge fan of crafting being strictly RNG, it would be nice that some skill and certain resources would make better items as well.
Seriously there was no time left for combat and you had to have no real life job to craft??
Why do people try to play games like a job. MMORPG give you plenty of time to do things. In SWG it took me 6 months to become a master doc. Meanwhile I did all sorts of things ranging from combat, experimenting, crafting, harvest runs, resource hunts, lots of grouping because it was fun and meaningfull.
You see it wasn't that SWG crafting felt like a job it was people trying to play it like a job which was the bigger problem and then those people complain it feels like a job due to their own playstyle. It's really funny to see people complain about no time for combat in SWG, kinda shows how impatiece people can be.
In a MMORPG what's not done today can be done tommorow, next week, next month. People new into this genre need to stop this rush mentality as it hurts this genre allot more then how people pretend it's these games.
Originally posted by ReklawPeople new into this genre need to stop this rush mentality as it hurts this genre allot more then how people pretend it's these games.
No, they don't. It hurts probably you but you =/= genre.
Comments
And it all encourages people to buy labor Point potions to use and to sell. Fantastic system...for XL/Trion.
I agree.
"Sandbox feature" makes no sense by definition of those 2 terms - design and feature.
Again, if you do not understand what those terms means, do not use them.
Vanguard was nothing at all like EQ2. EQ2's minigame is terrible, because its almost impossible to fail. Its just extra tedium.
Vanguards was different because ti made you work for the high quality items. there was certainly strategy involved. I wont disagree that leveling it was a huge grind, but that was due to the work order system not the craft process. FFXIV actually has a pretty nice watered down version of VG's item making.
The major disappointment with AA crafting is that there is zero skill element involved to it. The farming aspect is neat and at least the material gathering isnt quite so simplistic, but the crafting itself is not one of the game's strong points which is disappointing for a game with a craft based economy.
I've concluded from this thread that you think pithy, dismissive answers make you look smart.
Unfortunately you continue to fail to provide any reason for readers to accept your definitions. In fact you haven't even defined the term "sandbox", you've merely belittled people for using their definitions. With all your talk of "sandbox design", one would think you'd actually present what "sandbox design" means to you, but perhaps you are afraid of the kind of criticism you like to dish out.
If I go to sandboxer.org for instance, there's an essay on what they think makes a sandbox a sandbox. It's not definitive, but it's more than what you've provided.
AA resource gathering is like 3x deeper than SWG and involves more people. (therefore more sandbox than SWG in this department)
But there is no actual craft minigame like SWG/EQ2/FF , the quality of items in AA is just based on ingredients.
/Thread
ASROCK Z97 E-ITX
Intel i7 4790k @ 4.5Ghz+KrakenX41
Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC
16GB Crucial 1333mhz 1.3V
SWG 8 Year Vet, WW2OL 8 Year Vet.
Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
uh...no.
This is a completely ridiculous statement.
Randomly generated resource spawns + random quantity retrieved + random for rare drop of resource.
Player driven resources mostly logs, pelts, food 90% of ingredients come from player generation.
World region specializations, some regions have ingredients that only spawn in that location, other have specific items that can only be produce in X location, therefore increasing demand the further you are away from the source.
You can attach stats to your items think alchemy/magic skills make them.
You need to transport goods from place to place(logistics) something SWG had in a very limited way in SWG you carry 1000 tons on your character here you need mules, make convoys or transport them via sea or air.
High end products require high investment monetary and gameplay time.
(maybe more but I haven't even reach lvl 20)
Now tell me why is it ridiculous compared to SWG?
Agree thought SWGEmu is closer XDASROCK Z97 E-ITX
Intel i7 4790k @ 4.5Ghz+KrakenX41
Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC
16GB Crucial 1333mhz 1.3V
SWG 8 Year Vet, WW2OL 8 Year Vet.
Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
well for one resources in SWG had stats, disappeared over time, and they werent in static areas. You wanted to find the new resources fast so you can get your harvesters down, and of course you had to balance harvesters, power generators, and factories all competing for your land slots.
But that resource stat system...Different strains of aluminum could be dramatically different from each other. That 998 malleability copper maybe hasnt been seen in months, and you are sitting on a ton of it.
Completely agree. Item decay is a silly artificial thing that makes you not want to play or use your best gear. In just about every game I've played that used item decay players wore 2nd rate gear the majority of the time. It's just an awful way to take items out of circulation when in all actuality the players do a fine job of it themselves when they quit or move on and new players join the game. There is no need for item decay in today's MMO. Like restricted or weight based inventory management it's just a holdover from when games didn't know any better.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Aluminium, iron and copper and other resources do not vary in quality in real life if you smelt making the most pure as possible you will always obtain the same quality.
So SWG resources randomization of stats was kinda dumb it vary from 1 to 999 many times resources sucked and had no value other times some resources did not even spawn so you couldn't build specific items.
In contrast in AA you can sometimes come across pure iron or other metal this simply affects the quantity, normal iron you need 3 pieces to make a ingot with pure you need 1 so this is very realistic.
In archeage you also compete for land slots and in some cases you have to defend them in SWG you just have to be the first to get there, I still think you are the retarded one here nothing of that is unique or better than the current Archeage resource gathering mechanics.
@ITEMDECAY
I'm glad that stuff was removed from SWG it sucked big time you might had the best crafted armor ever on the server having spend millions but after a couple of weeks of playing IT WAS GONE!
In AA items do decay when you die but they can be repair, the problem in SWG was that you couldn't repair and when you could you could even broke it more.
ASROCK Z97 E-ITX
Intel i7 4790k @ 4.5Ghz+KrakenX41
Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC
16GB Crucial 1333mhz 1.3V
SWG 8 Year Vet, WW2OL 8 Year Vet.
Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
Just wanted to say, i know you never got to max level because you would know that pvp crafted items decay.
Those are not my definitions and I pointed out why the usage of collocation "sandbox/themepark feature" makes no sense.
In case you missed it: Feature as a component does not determine the functionality or characteristic of the entire system(design).
Yeah, because demand of 1 unit per capita is very much the same as 100 units...
Decay is not a must for an MMO but it is a must for any meanignful, dynamic economy.
Can someone explain to me what is item decay? I held it as the item in question losing durability until it reaches 0 at which point it causes no to minimal damage or breaks.
Items do have some form of decay when you die, but you do have means to pay for repairs. Is that the same thing or related?
item decay is a bad idea, mortal online has full player looting feature.
so you see players being nakked in fights, or wearing cheap ass armours all the time in mortal online.
so yea item decay is like full player looting bad idea.
item decay means if it reaches 0 durability your item is gone.
this also happens in dark fall, where players dont wear their best armour to fights.
Since you continue to refuse to define "sandbox design", I'm going to assume you have no idea and are just trolling.
At least the rest of us use precise, useful definitions as opposed to vague generalities.
When you have to bring up 'its more realistic' to defend your gathering system you know you have a lousy argument. Having to resort to name calling makes it even more obvious. And why would a game that takes place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away care about what iron is like on earth?
No thats not true item decay for me sorry. Trivial gold sinks is worthless to me. The decay needs to use mats used in the crafting or the item removed from game completely after so many failed attempts or successes. Just my opinion thouhh but thanks for assuming.
Seriously there was no time left for combat and you had to have no real life job to craft??
Why do people try to play games like a job. MMORPG give you plenty of time to do things. In SWG it took me 6 months to become a master doc. Meanwhile I did all sorts of things ranging from combat, experimenting, crafting, harvest runs, resource hunts, lots of grouping because it was fun and meaningfull.
You see it wasn't that SWG crafting felt like a job it was people trying to play it like a job which was the bigger problem and then those people complain it feels like a job due to their own playstyle. It's really funny to see people complain about no time for combat in SWG, kinda shows how impatiece people can be.
In a MMORPG what's not done today can be done tommorow, next week, next month. People new into this genre need to stop this rush mentality as it hurts this genre allot more then how people pretend it's these games.
No, they don't. It hurts probably you but you =/= genre.
No it doesn't hurt me, I enjoy games and find my own niche. And if I don't like a game I leave, simple as that.
Anyone that does not enjoy the game leaves and since the market is still growing, there is no hurt done and therefore your point is moot.