They could have at least tried to improve on the system.
The quests are generic and mind-numbingly boring. The game should be called Tweet-a-Quest-Hub-Star.
The dungeons are easy and predictable.
The graphics are already dated. I'm not talking the art design, the GRAPHICS are just poorly done.
Optimization leaves a lot to be desired.
I'll give the devs this, they were good at advertising it. They actually made it seem fun. To me, they failed horribly on the execution of the game, though.
Overall, it's just another SWTOR, WoW, LOTRO, Warhammer Online, Rift, etc. Each of those games have their own things to them, but they are at their core the same.
I'm not a dev, so I can't speak to what they could have done 'new'. I'm a gamer, though, so I can speak to what's fun for me...and this game ain't it.
This question has been plaguing me for a while as well, not just relating to wildstar, but a lot of new mmos. People always say it's not new, same combat, quests and content, it's all been done before, but then what is this new type of combat, quest and content do you want? It's well and easy saying it, but If people don't know themselves what it is, how will developers know? Saying "New ideas, that can't be like anything done" is like me saying to a music artist "New genre, that can't be like anything done before" and how often does that happen?
Imho the only way is to develop on what's already there, might be little, but any thing is better than nothing and i think in some place wildstar has done this, might not agree not trying to change anyone mind, but to me the ideas with combat + telegraphs, crafting, raids and warplots. They've taken the traditional concept and put a spin on it, might not be a major change, but like i said; something no matter how small is better than nothing.
The studios that think they need to re-invent the MMO fail to realize that it wasn't the traditional elements that caused them to become stale but the money grubbing grasping for WoW dollars studios that pumped out feature starved and unimaginative products. Those games made the MMO look terrible, so many studios won't pony up the cash unless they have some new hook or try to sell themselves as a revolution in MMO.
Carbine goes back to 2005 when about 20 dudes had just finished crunching on WoW for six years and wanted to do their own thing. WildStar may share a similar DNA to WoW, but it's certainly a much different game once you've played it to 50. Not different in that they've abandoned traditional MMO elements, but that they're done in a fresh new way. It's an MMO so it will look like an MMO. I'm more concerned about MMO's that are ashamed to be 100% mmo and think they have to invent something amazing to have an excuse to make one. I'd rather see a solid MMO by a dedicated and responsive team with traditional features that have evolved to be done in fresh new ways.
They could have at least tried to improve on the system.
They've actually improved almost everything
The quests are generic and mind-numbingly boring. The game should be called Tweet-a-Quest-Hub-Star.
No they aren't. There's a wide number of different quests many of them with arcade elements. Whether they are boring for you that's your opinion... they're fine for me.
The dungeons are easy and predictable.
So yeah... it seems like you don't know what you're talking about or just blatantly lying. They aren't easy and they are certainly not predictable if you haven't done them before.
The graphics are already dated. I'm not talking the art design, the GRAPHICS are just poorly done.
How is the graphic style outdated? How can a cartoon style be outdated?
Optimization leaves a lot to be desired.
Some people still have problems, however A LOT has been done and many people are saying it runs much much better now. I get around 50-60 FPS in boss fights... more than enough.
Overall, it's just another SWTOR, WoW, LOTRO, Warhammer Online, Rift, etc. Each of those games have their own things to them, but they are at their core the same.
They could have at least tried to improve on the system.
They've actually improved almost everything
The quests are generic and mind-numbingly boring. The game should be called Tweet-a-Quest-Hub-Star.
No they aren't. There's a wide number of different quests many of them with arcade elements. Whether they are boring for you that's your opinion... they're fine for me.
The dungeons are easy and predictable.
So yeah... it seems like you don't know what you're talking about or just blatantly lying. They aren't easy and they are certainly not predictable if you haven't done them before.
The graphics are already dated. I'm not talking the art design, the GRAPHICS are just poorly done.
How is the graphic style outdated? How can a cartoon style be outdated?
Optimization leaves a lot to be desired.
Some people still have problems, however A LOT has been done and many people are saying it runs much much better now. I get around 50-60 FPS in boss fights... more than enough.
Overall, it's just another SWTOR, WoW, LOTRO, Warhammer Online, Rift, etc. Each of those games have their own things to them, but they are at their core the same.
Let me guess.. you like ESO right? heh
Let me guess, rose tinted glasses?
ESO was ok, but I'm not subbed to it.
What does ESO have to do with WS being generically boring? Aren't they 2 different games?
Also, you're REALLY saying that WS isn't a quest hub game and their quest text is about the size of a tweet?
They could have at least tried to improve on the system.
The dungeons are easy and predictable.
Have you tried a veteran adventure? I'm sure you have not. Veteran 5mans are hard, really hard and anything but predictable. As for the 20 and 40 man raids, there are mini bosses in there harder than a number of main bosses in WoW.
The studios that think they need to re-invent the MMO fail to realize that it wasn't the traditional elements that caused them to become stale but the money grubbing grasping for WoW dollars studios that pumped out feature starved and unimaginative products. Those games made the MMO look terrible, so many studios won't pony up the cash unless they have some new hook or try to sell themselves as a revolution in MMO.
Carbine goes back to 2005 when about 20 dudes had just finished crunching on WoW for six years and wanted to do their own thing. WildStar may share a similar DNA to WoW, but it's certainly a much different game once you've played it to 50. Not different in that they've abandoned traditional MMO elements, but that they're done in a fresh new way. It's an MMO so it will look like an MMO. I'm more concerned about MMO's that are ashamed to be 100% mmo and think they have to invent something amazing to have an excuse to make one. I'd rather see a solid MMO by a dedicated and responsive team with traditional features that have evolved to be done in fresh new ways.
This
I like WildStar because its really an mmo. I dont care if quests are generic, anyway i will get bored of them even if they are superb. I like it because it promotes group gameplay. You even have a separate currency which is only obtainable when in group, for buying unique items from vendors. I like also all the options that the game gives you like dungeons, raids, arenas, bg's warplots, adventures, shiphands, paths etc. Maybe most of them are not new ideas, but it doesn't matter, i like them anyway. Others may find this content boring, i m not.
Everything is about tastes, but when it comes to a mmo group play must be a priority and WS get this right. If i wanted a single player experience or doing quests all day, i would rather play a single player game and not a mmo and i would also save my money from the monthly sub
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
The graphics are already dated. I'm not talking the art design, the GRAPHICS are just poorly done.
How is the graphic style outdated? How can a cartoon style be outdated?
Cartoon or not, it still has level of details, textures, and effects. Look at vanilla WoW vs. pandaria WoW graphics, they are like night and day, yet both are cartoon and even in the same universe/game. So yeah, just because they are cartoon does not mean they are automatically great graphics.
Just to put it in perspective, the WS 'hype' on this site has gone DOWN 2 points since open beta.
You may like it, I find it extremely boring and dull.
The devs did make it look good in Dev Speak, I don't know what happened to the actual game.
We all know whats happening in this site about scores etc. Everyone votes for his game and underscores others. Thats what always happening and we all know it
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
I don't care if WS isn't new and innovative. That's overblown. My main issue is that a large portion of the game feels tacked on and plastic. I mean just stop and honestly compare the game world to WoW or GW2. WS ultimately feels like it'll be a hub game where my toon sits in their uninspired city and waits on queues to pop.
It's probably the job of game developers/designers to come up with the new ideas to make us excited, not the other way around. If you haven't played a lot of wow, or haven't played wow recently, this game is great for you. If you have a few active MMO friends who also want to play this, this game is great for you. Otherwise the topic explains it all, its not much new for most MMO gamers.
I got beta in december, gave my keys to friends, and neither of them could stand to play it for more than a few days. For me it was mainly the fact they are launching with only 6 classes that have a very small amount of abilities. WoW launched with 9, EQ launched with 14.
The graphics are already dated. I'm not talking the art design, the GRAPHICS are just poorly done.
How is the graphic style outdated? How can a cartoon style be outdated?
Cartoon or not, it still has level of details, textures, and effects. Look at vanilla WoW vs. pandaria WoW graphics, they are like night and day, yet both are cartoon and even in the same universe/game. So yeah, just because they are cartoon does not mean they are automatically great graphics.
Noone was debating whether they were good or not. The point was that they were outdated and poorly done. They aren't.
This question has been plaguing me for a while as well, not just relating to wildstar, but a lot of new mmos. People always say it's not new, same combat, quests and content, it's all been done before, but then what is this new type of combat, quest and content do you want? It's well and easy saying it, but If people don't know themselves what it is, how will developers know? Saying "New ideas, that can't be like anything done" is like me saying to a music artist "New genre, that can't be like anything done before" and how often does that happen?
Imho the only way is to develop on what's already there, might be little, but any thing is better than nothing and i think in some place wildstar has done this, might not agree not trying to change anyone mind, but to me the ideas with combat + telegraphs, crafting, raids and warplots. They've taken the traditional concept and put a spin on it, might not be a major change, but like i said; something no matter how small is better than nothing.
I agree that inventing a totally new combat system is far from easy, I started playing C-64 once upon a time and there they tried to find new mechanics for most games, something that failed very often.
Then again, someone did invent the current system (mainly Meridian 59 even if it been polished and improved many times since) and anyone saying that making something different and more fun is impossible have no imaginitaion at all.
Wildstar don't have to try making new combat mechanics from scratch, but some games actually need to do this or people will eventually lose interest in the genre. The real problem is of course that a lot of the games that try will fail.
Personally I could see the use of systems from other type of games working, like a console MMO with a combat system close to Soul Calibur and Tekken, or combat mechanics based on pen and paper RPGs like Shadowrun.
Another possibility is a dynamic combat system (something Spellborn kinda tried but in a bad way) where your next attacks and spells are based on what you did the last attack (and maybe on what an opponent hitting you did, like an all out attack hitting you might open up a special attack).
Blaming WS for not improving the mechanics enough is unfair, the blame is really on all MMOs and frankly should not all games try new stuff either, there still are plenty of players who like the classic mechanics but we do need games that try out new stuff as well.
Here is my issue with the current crop of mmo's and Wildstar fits it perfect. I think my issue is more so once you get off the ship, just head to the nearest mound, rock or view point and look in the distance, and what do you see? I see a zone and not a world, I see a clump of mobs sitting in pack about fifteen yards from the next clump of mobs and so on and so on.
I want them to create a world and not a formula on what they think we want.
Maybe if they not gone so much with the cartoony vibe it would have been better , also I found the Looney Tunes type childish humour really irritating. I think they got the combat pretty close to being different though.
They could have at least tried to improve on the system.
The quests are generic and mind-numbingly boring. The game should be called Tweet-a-Quest-Hub-Star.
The dungeons are easy and predictable.
The graphics are already dated. I'm not talking the art design, the GRAPHICS are just poorly done.
Optimization leaves a lot to be desired.
I'll give the devs this, they were good at advertising it. They actually made it seem fun. To me, they failed horribly on the execution of the game, though.
Overall, it's just another SWTOR, WoW, LOTRO, Warhammer Online, Rift, etc. Each of those games have their own things to them, but they are at their core the same.
I'm not a dev, so I can't speak to what they could have done 'new'. I'm a gamer, though, so I can speak to what's fun for me...and this game ain't it.
Could you tell me more about the game. Quest, dungeons are a tiny part of what the game seems to offer? And what obviously every MMO offers.
So could you tell alittle about the housing? all the different paths? Or even talk about the paths you choose?
On topic: I feel there is allot of "new" in Wildstar and I don't even have to play the game to know that. We have all seen it's feature's explained. And as alway's the lower level's are often a intro to the game for those who are new to this genre. So the "new" is there, it's just far too many impatiente players not even getting to that point. And if they reached cap lvl I am sure they ignore most of the game except the things that granted them the most XP.
Wildstar is still on my want to play list. But ESO is keeping me satisfied. I am a one MMORPG type of player.
Let's be honest here. You haven't even played a dungeon. At most, you have played the level 15 -adventure- which is not a dungeon, not by far.
I am a hardcore PvE player that has played about every AAA mmo who has a level 50 toon in Wildstar Beta, and I can tell you this game has the most kickass and delightfully challenging dungeons that any mmo has ever had at launch. The rest of statements in your post were opinions, and as much as I disagree with them, having different opinions is fine, so I respect your opinions on the questing, the graphics and whatever.
But don't make a fool out of yourself with a statement like the one I quoted. That's not an opinion, that's being a ridiculous troll, and the rest of your post loses all its credibility for it.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Anyone that isn't liking or enjoying this game seems to say 'It brings nothing new to the MMO genre' and 'its all been done before'
Well, given that, what should it contain?
Oh Id' have liked the game more if it wasnt an instanced themepark. I guess I dont mind the combat and skills etc. I even like the AA type system with eldergems etc. But its too instanced. I would like MMO's to share dungeon like areas. - Rather like we share other pve zones. Imagine a dungeon type environment as large as a normal pve zone, with mini bosses etc, and people camping around the areas, waiting for a boss or just earning exp.
That would ofcourse require that earning exp took a little longer and that grouping for it was rewarded. It might also work out better if once earned alternate experience to strengthen ones toon that way too, rather than mainly relying on phat loot.
Basically, I would just like mmo's to be less about themepark themes, and more about getting back to what made the genre to begin with
Comments
They could have at least tried to improve on the system.
The quests are generic and mind-numbingly boring. The game should be called Tweet-a-Quest-Hub-Star.
The dungeons are easy and predictable.
The graphics are already dated. I'm not talking the art design, the GRAPHICS are just poorly done.
Optimization leaves a lot to be desired.
I'll give the devs this, they were good at advertising it. They actually made it seem fun. To me, they failed horribly on the execution of the game, though.
Overall, it's just another SWTOR, WoW, LOTRO, Warhammer Online, Rift, etc. Each of those games have their own things to them, but they are at their core the same.
I'm not a dev, so I can't speak to what they could have done 'new'. I'm a gamer, though, so I can speak to what's fun for me...and this game ain't it.
This question has been plaguing me for a while as well, not just relating to wildstar, but a lot of new mmos. People always say it's not new, same combat, quests and content, it's all been done before, but then what is this new type of combat, quest and content do you want? It's well and easy saying it, but If people don't know themselves what it is, how will developers know? Saying "New ideas, that can't be like anything done" is like me saying to a music artist "New genre, that can't be like anything done before" and how often does that happen?
Imho the only way is to develop on what's already there, might be little, but any thing is better than nothing and i think in some place wildstar has done this, might not agree not trying to change anyone mind, but to me the ideas with combat + telegraphs, crafting, raids and warplots. They've taken the traditional concept and put a spin on it, might not be a major change, but like i said; something no matter how small is better than nothing.
The studios that think they need to re-invent the MMO fail to realize that it wasn't the traditional elements that caused them to become stale but the money grubbing grasping for WoW dollars studios that pumped out feature starved and unimaginative products. Those games made the MMO look terrible, so many studios won't pony up the cash unless they have some new hook or try to sell themselves as a revolution in MMO.
Carbine goes back to 2005 when about 20 dudes had just finished crunching on WoW for six years and wanted to do their own thing. WildStar may share a similar DNA to WoW, but it's certainly a much different game once you've played it to 50. Not different in that they've abandoned traditional MMO elements, but that they're done in a fresh new way. It's an MMO so it will look like an MMO. I'm more concerned about MMO's that are ashamed to be 100% mmo and think they have to invent something amazing to have an excuse to make one. I'd rather see a solid MMO by a dedicated and responsive team with traditional features that have evolved to be done in fresh new ways.
..Cake..
Let me guess, rose tinted glasses?
ESO was ok, but I'm not subbed to it.
What does ESO have to do with WS being generically boring? Aren't they 2 different games?
Also, you're REALLY saying that WS isn't a quest hub game and their quest text is about the size of a tweet?
Have you tried a veteran adventure? I'm sure you have not. Veteran 5mans are hard, really hard and anything but predictable. As for the 20 and 40 man raids, there are mini bosses in there harder than a number of main bosses in WoW.
This
I like WildStar because its really an mmo. I dont care if quests are generic, anyway i will get bored of them even if they are superb. I like it because it promotes group gameplay. You even have a separate currency which is only obtainable when in group, for buying unique items from vendors. I like also all the options that the game gives you like dungeons, raids, arenas, bg's warplots, adventures, shiphands, paths etc. Maybe most of them are not new ideas, but it doesn't matter, i like them anyway. Others may find this content boring, i m not.
Everything is about tastes, but when it comes to a mmo group play must be a priority and WS get this right. If i wanted a single player experience or doing quests all day, i would rather play a single player game and not a mmo and i would also save my money from the monthly sub
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Cartoon or not, it still has level of details, textures, and effects. Look at vanilla WoW vs. pandaria WoW graphics, they are like night and day, yet both are cartoon and even in the same universe/game. So yeah, just because they are cartoon does not mean they are automatically great graphics.
Just to put it in perspective, the WS 'hype' on this site has gone DOWN 2 points since open beta.
You may like it, I find it extremely boring and dull.
The devs did make it look good in Dev Speak, I don't know what happened to the actual game.
We all know whats happening in this site about scores etc. Everyone votes for his game and underscores others. Thats what always happening and we all know it
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur6GQp5mCYs
You would think that a group of mmo vets would watch something like this for quest design.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Anything that isn't WoW. Oh wait, the devs are mostly old WoW devs... Well no wonder.
It's probably the job of game developers/designers to come up with the new ideas to make us excited, not the other way around. If you haven't played a lot of wow, or haven't played wow recently, this game is great for you. If you have a few active MMO friends who also want to play this, this game is great for you. Otherwise the topic explains it all, its not much new for most MMO gamers.
I got beta in december, gave my keys to friends, and neither of them could stand to play it for more than a few days. For me it was mainly the fact they are launching with only 6 classes that have a very small amount of abilities. WoW launched with 9, EQ launched with 14.
something new?
the development started in 2005
so no, i doubt anyone expected something new
..Cake..
Noone was debating whether they were good or not. The point was that they were outdated and poorly done. They aren't.
..Cake..
I agree that inventing a totally new combat system is far from easy, I started playing C-64 once upon a time and there they tried to find new mechanics for most games, something that failed very often.
Then again, someone did invent the current system (mainly Meridian 59 even if it been polished and improved many times since) and anyone saying that making something different and more fun is impossible have no imaginitaion at all.
Wildstar don't have to try making new combat mechanics from scratch, but some games actually need to do this or people will eventually lose interest in the genre. The real problem is of course that a lot of the games that try will fail.
Personally I could see the use of systems from other type of games working, like a console MMO with a combat system close to Soul Calibur and Tekken, or combat mechanics based on pen and paper RPGs like Shadowrun.
Another possibility is a dynamic combat system (something Spellborn kinda tried but in a bad way) where your next attacks and spells are based on what you did the last attack (and maybe on what an opponent hitting you did, like an all out attack hitting you might open up a special attack).
Blaming WS for not improving the mechanics enough is unfair, the blame is really on all MMOs and frankly should not all games try new stuff either, there still are plenty of players who like the classic mechanics but we do need games that try out new stuff as well.
Or at least that is my opinion...
Here is my issue with the current crop of mmo's and Wildstar fits it perfect. I think my issue is more so once you get off the ship, just head to the nearest mound, rock or view point and look in the distance, and what do you see? I see a zone and not a world, I see a clump of mobs sitting in pack about fifteen yards from the next clump of mobs and so on and so on.
I want them to create a world and not a formula on what they think we want.
Could you tell me more about the game. Quest, dungeons are a tiny part of what the game seems to offer? And what obviously every MMO offers.
So could you tell alittle about the housing? all the different paths? Or even talk about the paths you choose?
On topic: I feel there is allot of "new" in Wildstar and I don't even have to play the game to know that. We have all seen it's feature's explained. And as alway's the lower level's are often a intro to the game for those who are new to this genre. So the "new" is there, it's just far too many impatiente players not even getting to that point. And if they reached cap lvl I am sure they ignore most of the game except the things that granted them the most XP.
Wildstar is still on my want to play list. But ESO is keeping me satisfied. I am a one MMORPG type of player.
To be quite honest, the denizens of this site are about as poor a predictor of a game's ultimate success or failure as one could possibly imagine.
To the point where frankly I'd consider the fact that so many around here are down on Wildstar as being in its favor.
Let's be honest here. You haven't even played a dungeon. At most, you have played the level 15 -adventure- which is not a dungeon, not by far.
I am a hardcore PvE player that has played about every AAA mmo who has a level 50 toon in Wildstar Beta, and I can tell you this game has the most kickass and delightfully challenging dungeons that any mmo has ever had at launch. The rest of statements in your post were opinions, and as much as I disagree with them, having different opinions is fine, so I respect your opinions on the questing, the graphics and whatever.
But don't make a fool out of yourself with a statement like the one I quoted. That's not an opinion, that's being a ridiculous troll, and the rest of your post loses all its credibility for it.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Oh Id' have liked the game more if it wasnt an instanced themepark. I guess I dont mind the combat and skills etc. I even like the AA type system with eldergems etc. But its too instanced. I would like MMO's to share dungeon like areas. - Rather like we share other pve zones. Imagine a dungeon type environment as large as a normal pve zone, with mini bosses etc, and people camping around the areas, waiting for a boss or just earning exp.
That would ofcourse require that earning exp took a little longer and that grouping for it was rewarded. It might also work out better if once earned alternate experience to strengthen ones toon that way too, rather than mainly relying on phat loot.
Basically, I would just like mmo's to be less about themepark themes, and more about getting back to what made the genre to begin with