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WoW and Blizzard lack of support for GLBT players.
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I think it's absolutely irresponsible for anyone to advertise, recruit or start any "gay/black/white/lesbian/whatever friendly" guild. How can you be 100% certain that whoever you are recruiting is GBLT? They may only be 12 years old and not understand. You want to explain to a young girl what a lesbian is? You think Blizzard or bigots are the ones with the problem.
Wait a minute... gays are a whole separate RACE now?
asd
What a non-issue, doubtless rooted in American 'family value' christian 'ethics'.
One thing I've always liked about the net is being able to get to know each other without prejudgements, which making a particularly-oriented guild sort of defeats, but then so much of the online world is so childish and uses so much hate language that I can certainly respect people's wishes in wanting to play with other like-minded people.
Its no different to selecting an RP guild due to wanting a certain atmosphere.
WoW allows Christian guilds, and I find evangelical religion extremely upsetting, if they have a right to it, so do you.
Go somewhere else.
Neocron has a low population but the setting at least seems mature.
)
Age of Conan may well allow for such (and the barbarian aesthetic should appeal to some of that spectrum
Lastly, you could come give Ryzom a try. Lots of europeans, more tolerant attitude and - if memory serves - the first in game marriage was a same-gender one (something that has caused outcry in other games).
As to GLBT, sounds like a sandwich. Gay Lettuce Bacon and Tomato (made only using bacon from gay pigs).
Mmm, bacon.
Postmortem Studios
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Until I read this article I had no idea that GLBT meant what it does! Soemone must have a real grudge against anything seeming not 'normal'. I am not a gay or anything else for that matter other than a 'straight ' mal. But I do feel that what has been done here is a bit unjust. Whilst it was not strictly in keeping with the gaming world that is WoW it neitrher offensive nor insulting, also it is only something of interest to those who know what it stands for.
But seeing as you are taking this matter of a 'caution' outside to all and sundry it is now becoming an issue that it need not be. Why not just go back to playing as normal and make it plain when someone joins your guild that you are indeed GLBT friendly and do not allow anyone to be insulting etc etc in to anyone of a non specific gender/sexual orientation. Live with what you, it was your choice, I've made my choice, when I play WoW or any other online game I keep to the gaming world in general chats etc and save the more sensitive/risky subjects for the whispers or a private chat pane. Just forgive and move on, in the end the only who will suffer anything in all of this is you. Give it up, life is more important than any single offence that will be taken in it.
I came, I saw and in Azeroth I made my home.
I think the poster previous to you has you pretty much pegged, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...
Religion, particularly Christianity, in inexorably tied up with sexuality from some interpretations of original sin to ideas such as chastity and the few passages that mmore illiberal churches use to condemn homosexuality and other aspects of sexual reproduction - even claiming to be able to 'cure' it.
In fact pretty much every field of human endeavour is mixed up with sexual psychology, so... yeah.
Anyway, in spite of the fact that they are a private enterprise the company, Blizzard, is beholden to anti discrimination laws and standards of human decency as enforced by the government of the country in which the company resides.
Now, using a not-widely-know acronym such as GLBT can hardly be considered offensive when language such as yours (Using 'gay' as a perjorative and calling people 'fags' in an insulting fashion) is more often than not gotten away with.
As the net becomes broader and deeper hopefully we'll see these childish attitudes pushed away and the digital realm becoming more welcoming to people of all types but especially women and alternate-sexualities who, at the moment, get the rough end of the stick.
Postmortem Studios
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Don't need to advertize sexual orientation in a game. I don't care if you're being equal-opportunity about it, it doesn't need to be brought up. What if a guild came out that was "nazi friendly"? Or "KKK friendly"? Anybody could join, but they advertize it (as the guild in question) did as a guild that accepts those beliefs. I'm sure a lot of people would complain seeing that guild advertizement on general chat, and it would shortly be disbanned. If they didn't do the same to a "gay and lesbian friendly" guild, then that would not be protecting equally freedom of speech (or an equal lack thereof).
It's sort of like after-school organizations: if you allow a club to meet, you're opening the doors for any club to form. If you don't want a nazi club, then you can't have a gay and lesbian club.
_____________________________________
"Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro;
Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore."
-Machiavelli
How can you even remotely compare a group that supports GLBT tolerance and support to a group that promotes racism, haterd and genocaidal doctrines?
You beat me to it. I'm amazed there's even a discussion about this being wrong.
Postmortem Studios
Roleplaying games to DIE for
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I should have double checked my typing. Didn't know you couldn't edit. Some ugly typos in there.
It amazes me how people react to this by bringing up such banal comparisons. Whether or not a private entity has the right to impose such restrictions is irrelevant to the ignorant comparisons and justifications some of you are making.
He didn't... he was saying that in order to support one group of people, you'd have to support another or you'd just be being hypocritical. You believe that a nazi guild would be a bad thing for promoting racist values just like I'm sure some people believe a GLBT guild would be a bad thing for promoting homosexuality/gender ambuguity.
The bottom line is... it's a ROLE-PLAYING game... I couldn't care less what the person sitting behind the computer gets up to in their free time. If you wanna RP a gay nightelf who wears pink armor, fair enough, but the fact that you're gay IRL has NOTHING to do with the game or the fantasy setting.
Quit whining because they didn't let you have your GLBT guild and get on with your life...
I dont think theres anything wrong with advertizing a GLBT friendly guild in wow general chat or any other game. Its no different than advertizing for a guild thats for french speaking quebeccers or some other small segment of the population that would benefit from grouping together on the basis of common interests. I dont think blizzard acted appropriatly and i hope that your taking action will change their minds but im skeptical.
Like others have said it makes sense in terms of dollars to support the mainstream social norms on this issue and thats all blizzard really cares about.
----ITS A TRAP!!!----
I feel that maybe Blizzard was a little heavy handed here, but I do agree that general chat is the wrong way place to describe "out of game" statements about a guilds nature.
Better off to direct the person to the guild website where the information can be read, also I don't think most young people would know what GLBT stands for.
So you'd need to spell it out in more obvious terms, which again would be easy if directed to the guilds web site, where it was spelt out on the home page.
While I hate gay people that policy is non-sense because everyone has the right to play an MMO game for all it's qualities. In this situation he/she wasn't harrassing anyone so I see that to be completely stupid.
"The one who begins with nothing, gains everything slowly."
Blizzard aren't stopping gays from PLAYING the game... they're merely stopping them creating a 'gay guild' which would no doubt just cause trouble.
Blizzard aren't stopping gays from PLAYING the game... they're merely stopping them creating a 'gay guild' which would no doubt just cause trouble.
Read the underlined word. A guild is a quality of the game that they're halting them from doing which IMO kinda sucks for them..even though it would cause trouble they still have some rights. *coughnotmanycough*
"The one who begins with nothing, gains everything slowly."
Of course Blizzard aren't stopping gays when there are GAY BARS in Azeroth!
Blizzard aren't stopping gays from PLAYING the game... they're merely stopping them creating a 'gay guild' which would no doubt just cause trouble.
Read the underlined word. A guild is a quality of the game that they're halting them from doing which IMO kinda sucks for them..even though it would cause trouble they still have some rights. *coughnotmanycough*
Again, Blizzard are not stopping them from forming/joining a guild... just forming a guild that specifically advertises itself as a gay guild. It doesn't take a genius to realise how much trouble this would cause for them... at the very least it promotes segregation. The next step would have be 'gay servers' and 'gay MMOs' to prevent the gay community isolating itself from the rest of the gaming population.
A couple of people in this thread are trying to stir up a load of trouble by making out Blizzard stopped this gay guild because they are prejudiced against gays/trans/etc... the truth is Blizzard simply do not want the hastle a 'gay guild' would cause in their game, so please stop trolling and playing the martyr card.
1. GLBT friendly, or gay only, it doesn't matter. They don't want that enviroment in their game, PERIOD. They don't care what you mask it under, they don't want such a volatile enviroment.
2. Comparing a "GLBT friendly" clan to a "White Supremacist/KKK/Nazi" clan, in the terms of their reason for halting such "GLBT friendly" clans, there is no difference?
Why? I'll explain it once more. They know that many people find both organizations of people offense, or make them uncomfortable. Thus because of their corporational obligation to make money, they bar such organizations from their game.
It's that simple, it's not hard to explain. You can try to argue it whichever way you please, but when it comes to the end of the day, they're in the business to make cash. They don't want groups that cause a disruption to the flow of the game, that simple.
And to put it bluntly, they really do have every right to make such calls.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Your right they do have every right to make those decesions about their game. MMO Players such as myself who feel it's wrong have a right to boycott their game and their company. MMO Players such as myself who feel it's wrong also have a right to do everything in our power to let everyone know of their policies. This includes letters to all major gay media and media outlets like the NYT.
It's really that simple.
Man, take your political correctness crusade elsewhere. WoW is a game and while you might this its absolutely hilarious to advertise your sexuality, others as myself do not. I dont care if someone is gay straight or bi, i just dont want to know about it when im playing a GAME... i get enough of that in real life. Thank you.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
As you can see, this discussion has so much controversy within our forum.
We hear mature and intelligent people share their ideas on both side.
This controversy is not good for the general/shout channel in the game.
I support Blizzard's decision, as they have to protect the general WoW player base from this mess.
This really wouldn't be such a messed up situation if Blizzard actually was quick to take action on other aspects. They let players be as nasty and crude as they want in the ingame chat. There is a reason people dread Westfall and Barrens chat and it's been that way for a long time. Yet when something mature or at least adult like this is even mentioned they are quick to warn people.
LOL. I could have written the message above as a satire! The fact that someone wrote it and was being sincere is scary.
"Like live your life as an example of how decent and proper gay people can be." What is Mr. uptight really saying here? He's promoting the notion that gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered persons would be better off if they would keep quiet about their sexuality in situations where straights might feel uncomfortable and threatened.
That's bullshit.
Pretending to be what you're not encourages homophobes to act out against you. And, not just with baseball bats. The primative violence and destruction of a physical attack manifests itself higher up as laws against you. Housing and employment opportunities are denied. If you keep silent long enough your right to live at all will eventually be challenged; religious zealots and other fanatics won't stop hating you because you hide in the shadows or act "normal" like them, except for who you like to sleep with. Silence to them is interpreted as a sure sign that they are winning the battle.
At the root, World of Warcraft is a game built on very conservative, christian ideas. Start a character in WoW and take a look around. What do you see? You see only straight points of view. There's no lack of male chauvanism, either. The game constantly reinforces the idea that straight is normal and that's the only way beings behave. How ridiculous. No wonder that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered persons feel the need to create a space in the game where anyone can feel like a person instead of like they do not exist.
Please, don't quote from the WoW EULA to defeat all I've said, it won't work. We all know that the EULA grants Blizzard the right to do whatever they want, I don't care. With its 5 million subscribers WoW is no longer a private commecial venture, it's a public instituition like the power and light company, and should be regulated as one.
Yeah, yeah, I know it'll never happen. Especially if you keep silent about it.