In wow, dps consists of rotation, cool down stack and watching cool down bars on screens to tell you when to move aka Compulsary dbm. I'd you are a healer you watch a grid..
You think grids and cooldown bars is fun?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom In wow, dps consists of rotation, cool down stack and watching cool down bars on screens to tell you when to move aka Compulsary dbm. I'd you are a healer you watch a grid..
You think grids and cooldown bars is fun?
Congratulations, you just listed the basics of every single MMO that has PvE content. WS will have rotations for the highest DPS too, don't kid yourself by falling into the trap of telling everyone how different it is from every other game - aside from art, theme and aesthetics.
What is wrong with WoW combat exactly? I don't understand this obsession with console-friendly trash where a limited action-set is considered a "feature". I'll take tactical combat with actual strategy and resources over wildstar MOBA bullshit anyday. It's exactly the same as Guild Wars 2 - they took away resources because apparently the masses are too stupid to manage mana now and they replaced it with 30+ second cooldowns on every single skill so basically 90% of the time you're spamming one. Great. How is this progress again? I agree that TERA combat was really good but I still wouldn't say it's better than WoW combat, it's just different. I don't really see how having a reticle as opposed to tab-targeting automatically makes combat better...it's not like an FPS where you have to actually be accurate, compensate for spray/recoil and try and get headshots...enemies in MMOs have such huge hit boxes that you may as well be tab-targetting.. Honestly I get the feeling that most of the people that talk down about WoW-style combat are the same people that only use 5% of their classes abilities and stick to a set rotation for every single situation....or healers that never bother with CC or contributing damage and just sit there spamming heals when the tank is already over 80% hp
+1
because arcane blast spam until a proc happens was compelling game play.
Because rotations are compelling gameplay (Ret paladin forever FCFS style rotation, feral druids, rogues, and warriors most of the game)
Sorry WoW combat has a lot, A LOT of problems.
That was kind of my point though really, this is a REALLY unrealistic description of WoW combat. You should never be spamming one spell and you should never be sticking to one rotation under all circumstances without any ability to divert from it. As far as PvP goes, there is no rotation at all. Realistically the combat is about 50% muscle memory and 50% reaction which in my opinion works great. As far as spamming goes, Wildstar and Guild Wars 2 combat heavily revolves around spamming the 1 key and the combat in these games is considered to be a vast improvement over WoW so I seriously don't understand where this criticism is coming from. If you think WoW is spammy then I seriously don't understand how you could think that Wildstar is an improvement.
Same for me. I don't like the combat of Wildstar that much either.
It's a very dumbed down combat imho hitting 1-1-1-1-1-2 over and over again. It's the same boring combat-system as in TSW actually, with the only difference being the telegraphs instead of tab-targetting.
I'm more in favour of the WoW-style combat with tab-target, where you have bigger skill-rotations with the need of micromanaging ressources.
FPS-style combat doesn't belong in MMORPGs either, but in shooters. Skyrim would've been awesome with a traditional WoW-style combat system imho, but the FPS-combat didn't do it for me at all there.
Micromanaging ressources and closely watching timers never was for everybody, but the younger the players the less interest in such "deeper" combat-systems exist.
My main gripe with the combat system is that every skil has its own CD.... which makes you look more at the cooldown timers then at the actuall combat...
Limited number of skills combined with a cooldown system does not really work..... personally i prefer how ESO did it, resource based....
The system is a bit of fun, but could have been so much better..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
First off, I don't know why people are calling WoW "hardcore"
nothing in the raid is "hardcore".. everything is timed, you know everything that's going to happen before it does.. it's basically a kids version of real hardcore raiding...
You want hardcore raiding, you play EverQuest, you play FF IV on extreme difficulty for dungeons.. you don't play WoW... only thing that makes WoW difficult is playing with noobs
I'll admit, VANILLA WoW's Onyxia and MC were great.. nowdays, it's just, check timer, move back wards, move forward.. repeat
10-man raids? please.. try having a 75 man raid (EverQuest) with 15 clerics in a complete heal rotation because your 3khp tank is getting quad-attacked for 1k a pop (for those that don't do math, that means your tank is effectively taking 4kdmg, but because you're awesome clerics are saving the day, the damage is healed between attacks, even though the attacks happen every half second or so)
My main gripe with the combat system is that every skil has its own CD.... which makes you look more at the cooldown timers then at the actuall combat...
lol not really. You glance at the skills like you do in all mmos.
Also find myself in Wildstar glancing at the skills less because of aiming the telegraphs.
Limited number of skills combined with a cooldown system does not really work..... personally i prefer how ESO did it, resource based....
But it works fine. It's the funnest combat system I've played in a very long while. Lots of people are enjoying it. So it does work
Also... I found ESO's combat sluggish and very boring ;/
The system is a bit of fun, but could have been so much better..
There's always room for improvement.. I've yet to play an mmo where I felt the combat was perfect.
My biggest gripe with the combat system is the poor optimisation in a game that claims to be focussed on dungeons and raiding. Huge framerate drops and lag spikes which can cause critical mistakes at critical points, especially in the more complex boss fights. It's very reminiscent of the problems that plagued WAR. Often your not fighting the boss, your fighting the lag and winning is not you beating the boss, it's you surviving the spikes.
If you die and it's down to your own mistakes, thats ok, but when you die because the game/server does something you cannot control, thats frustrating.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
First off, I don't know why people are calling WoW "hardcore"
nothing in the raid is "hardcore".. everything is timed, you know everything that's going to happen before it does.. it's basically a kids version of real hardcore raiding...
You want hardcore raiding, you play EverQuest, you play FF IV on extreme difficulty for dungeons.. you don't play WoW... only thing that makes WoW difficult is playing with noobs
I'll admit, VANILLA WoW's Onyxia and MC were great.. nowdays, it's just, check timer, move back wards, move forward.. repeat
10-man raids? please.. try having a 75 man raid (EverQuest) with 15 clerics in a complete heal rotation because your 3khp tank is getting quad-attacked for 1k a pop (for those that don't do math, that means your tank is effectively taking 4kdmg, but because you're awesome clerics are saving the day, the damage is healed between attacks, even though the attacks happen every half second or so)
DAoC's 200+ man legion raids/ML raids laugh at your puny 75 man raids
I expect something similar from some EvE junkie.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
After playing games like TERA and Nevewrinter, it's really hard for me to enjoy an MMO with combat that isn't engaging.
Although Wildstar combat isn't as bad as say WoW tab-targetting, it's still pretty medicore.
Does the combat get any better as you level and get more skills?
Something that really bugged me is not having mouse-look in combat that uses aim. What the heck is the sense of that?
But beyond that, it just felt clunky and unengaging.
Is it worth downloading the add-on to get mouselook mode for a more engaging feel?
I'm tempted to try that but with the new mod for Neverwinter coming out tomorrow I'm not all that motivated.e
To each his own I suppose. I played both TERA and Neverwinter extensively and find Wildstar's combat more to my liking.
ESO's combat is my favorite MMO combat system but, all things considered, Wildstar is, IMO, a more complete gaming experience.
Cheers.
I wish ESO changed they combat system just slightly so that it mimic Tera. Tera had it so that if you were swinging your weapons it hit all targets it was swinging at. Which makes much more sense with a mouse cursor aiming system. That would make ESO have the best combat system. Oh and if weapon swapping was more seamless like Gw2 but without the cool down of weapon swapping that GW2 has. Just keep it the way it is without the cool down but make it change quicker like GW2.
Comments
You think grids and cooldown bars is fun?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
yep, that was one of the first questions i had. how to switch from cursor to mouselook mode. they kinda forgot that option.
best part: the "community" flamed me for like 30 mins why i want it... gotta love scrubs *G* they actually thought i am a keyboard turner... noobs ^^
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Congratulations, you just listed the basics of every single MMO that has PvE content. WS will have rotations for the highest DPS too, don't kid yourself by falling into the trap of telling everyone how different it is from every other game - aside from art, theme and aesthetics.
That was kind of my point though really, this is a REALLY unrealistic description of WoW combat. You should never be spamming one spell and you should never be sticking to one rotation under all circumstances without any ability to divert from it. As far as PvP goes, there is no rotation at all. Realistically the combat is about 50% muscle memory and 50% reaction which in my opinion works great. As far as spamming goes, Wildstar and Guild Wars 2 combat heavily revolves around spamming the 1 key and the combat in these games is considered to be a vast improvement over WoW so I seriously don't understand where this criticism is coming from. If you think WoW is spammy then I seriously don't understand how you could think that Wildstar is an improvement.
Same for me. I don't like the combat of Wildstar that much either.
It's a very dumbed down combat imho hitting 1-1-1-1-1-2 over and over again. It's the same boring combat-system as in TSW actually, with the only difference being the telegraphs instead of tab-targetting.
I'm more in favour of the WoW-style combat with tab-target, where you have bigger skill-rotations with the need of micromanaging ressources.
FPS-style combat doesn't belong in MMORPGs either, but in shooters. Skyrim would've been awesome with a traditional WoW-style combat system imho, but the FPS-combat didn't do it for me at all there.
Micromanaging ressources and closely watching timers never was for everybody, but the younger the players the less interest in such "deeper" combat-systems exist.
My main gripe with the combat system is that every skil has its own CD.... which makes you look more at the cooldown timers then at the actuall combat...
Limited number of skills combined with a cooldown system does not really work..... personally i prefer how ESO did it, resource based....
The system is a bit of fun, but could have been so much better..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
First off, I don't know why people are calling WoW "hardcore"
nothing in the raid is "hardcore".. everything is timed, you know everything that's going to happen before it does.. it's basically a kids version of real hardcore raiding...
You want hardcore raiding, you play EverQuest, you play FF IV on extreme difficulty for dungeons.. you don't play WoW... only thing that makes WoW difficult is playing with noobs
I'll admit, VANILLA WoW's Onyxia and MC were great.. nowdays, it's just, check timer, move back wards, move forward.. repeat
10-man raids? please.. try having a 75 man raid (EverQuest) with 15 clerics in a complete heal rotation because your 3khp tank is getting quad-attacked for 1k a pop (for those that don't do math, that means your tank is effectively taking 4kdmg, but because you're awesome clerics are saving the day, the damage is healed between attacks, even though the attacks happen every half second or so)
lol not really. You glance at the skills like you do in all mmos.
Also find myself in Wildstar glancing at the skills less because of aiming the telegraphs.
But it works fine. It's the funnest combat system I've played in a very long while. Lots of people are enjoying it. So it does work
Also... I found ESO's combat sluggish and very boring ;/
There's always room for improvement.. I've yet to play an mmo where I felt the combat was perfect.
..Cake..
My biggest gripe with the combat system is the poor optimisation in a game that claims to be focussed on dungeons and raiding. Huge framerate drops and lag spikes which can cause critical mistakes at critical points, especially in the more complex boss fights. It's very reminiscent of the problems that plagued WAR. Often your not fighting the boss, your fighting the lag and winning is not you beating the boss, it's you surviving the spikes.
If you die and it's down to your own mistakes, thats ok, but when you die because the game/server does something you cannot control, thats frustrating.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
DAoC's 200+ man legion raids/ML raids laugh at your puny 75 man raids
I expect something similar from some EvE junkie.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I wish ESO changed they combat system just slightly so that it mimic Tera. Tera had it so that if you were swinging your weapons it hit all targets it was swinging at. Which makes much more sense with a mouse cursor aiming system. That would make ESO have the best combat system. Oh and if weapon swapping was more seamless like Gw2 but without the cool down of weapon swapping that GW2 has. Just keep it the way it is without the cool down but make it change quicker like GW2.
The combat is very similar to other action combat mmorpgs.
The main difference is that with telegraphs you'll see where the weapon/attack will hit. The feel might be different but the logic behind is the same.