Originally posted by grigdusher Someone don't agree that a pure cosmetic founder( and in game shop) is simply better?
You want to lock away mastercrafted, artifact, etc stuff behind founder paywall? Think in Warhammer 40.000 what has only cosmetic differences and you will quickly see you either have something that has stats or you lock away chapters, craftworlds, etc to founders only.
you don't read.
You are a DoW boy because pure cosmetics do not exist in Warhammer 40.000, everything is linked to something (either cheaper weapons, more specialized weapons, etc).
you clearly have read no info about the game.
lol at the "dow boy"
"
Tell me about the Space Marine faction.
Space Marine chapters at launch include (at least) the Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.
Characters such as Assault Marines, Devastators, Apothecaries and Terminators feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Ork faction.
Ork clans at launch include (at least) the Evil Sunz, Bad Moons, Deathskulls and Goffs.
Characters such as Stormyboyz, Lootas, Mekboys & Meganobz feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Chaos Space Marine faction.
Chaos legions at launch include (at least) the Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, and Night Lords.
Characters such as Chosen, Havocs, Raptors & Terminators feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Eldar faction.
Eldar craftworld at launch include (at least) Iyanden, Ulthwé, Saim-Hann, and Biel-tan.
Characters such as Dark Reapers, Dire Avengers, Wraithguards and Warlocks feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
"
Tell me where it says that each sub-faction won't have its own flavor? it would piss off a hell of allot of people if they didn't in which case tell me where do cosmetics fit in then.
so you copypasted here the site faq? for what purpose?
Who say that is needed to lock away chapters, craftworlds, etc to founders only?
Not me.
I don't have idea why you are talking about that chapter/craftword are subfaction not something only cosmetic.
I say the item shop of the game (and the founder program) are more fair and still sucesfull (because war 40k love cosmetic and personalization).
The lore and background of war 40k, is FULL of pattern and small variant in item.
think about purity seal for space marine armor, think about trophy, think about different shape of helmet , spike decoration on armor etc etc...
all faction and subfaction have a lot of decorative and cosmetic:
take as example the robe of a dark angel space marine.
Or a wolf pelt for a space wolf space marine...
really the possibilities are endless in the war 40k background.
Purity seals ward against demonic influence and mechanical faults, trophies are usually demonic fetishes for chaos, authority marks for orks, different patterns of helm offer different bonuses (go look up corvus vs aquilla), spike decorations increase melee damage/protection.
The robe of a Dark Angel is something specific to their chapter, selling that on top of the class would earn immeasurable ire, same with the wolf pelt of a Space Wolf. Go look it up in the lore before talking from arse.
I think you are doing it on purpose.
So basically for you if in EC sell cosmetic robe people get angry but if they sell side grade weapon hero class vehicles is perfecly fine?
if you really belive that cosmetic item are impossibile in a war 40k give direclty the feedback to the dev because cosmetic are considered already inside the founder program:
Excluding the different effects (which in Warhammer 40k could be an indication of more advanced construction, IE better weapons) what he said isn't what you said because he talks about customizing your armor/vehicles/etc which is a whole different beast than patterns, chapters,etc.
Originally posted by grigdusher Someone don't agree that a pure cosmetic founder( and in game shop) is simply better?
You want to lock away mastercrafted, artifact, etc stuff behind founder paywall? Think in Warhammer 40.000 what has only cosmetic differences and you will quickly see you either have something that has stats or you lock away chapters, craftworlds, etc to founders only.
you don't read.
You are a DoW boy because pure cosmetics do not exist in Warhammer 40.000, everything is linked to something (either cheaper weapons, more specialized weapons, etc).
you clearly have read no info about the game.
lol at the "dow boy"
"
Tell me about the Space Marine faction.
Space Marine chapters at launch include (at least) the Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.
Characters such as Assault Marines, Devastators, Apothecaries and Terminators feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Ork faction.
Ork clans at launch include (at least) the Evil Sunz, Bad Moons, Deathskulls and Goffs.
Characters such as Stormyboyz, Lootas, Mekboys & Meganobz feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Chaos Space Marine faction.
Chaos legions at launch include (at least) the Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, and Night Lords.
Characters such as Chosen, Havocs, Raptors & Terminators feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Eldar faction.
Eldar craftworld at launch include (at least) Iyanden, Ulthwé, Saim-Hann, and Biel-tan.
Characters such as Dark Reapers, Dire Avengers, Wraithguards and Warlocks feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
"
Tell me where it says that each sub-faction won't have its own flavor? it would piss off a hell of allot of people if they didn't in which case tell me where do cosmetics fit in then.
so you copypasted here the site faq? for what purpose?
Who say that is needed to lock away chapters, craftworlds, etc to founders only?
Not me.
I don't have idea why you are talking about that chapter/craftword are subfaction not something only cosmetic.
I say the item shop of the game (and the founder program) are more fair and still sucesfull (because war 40k love cosmetic and personalization).
The lore and background of war 40k, is FULL of pattern and small variant in item.
think about purity seal for space marine armor, think about trophy, think about different shape of helmet , spike decoration on armor etc etc...
all faction and subfaction have a lot of decorative and cosmetic:
take as example the robe of a dark angel space marine.
Or a wolf pelt for a space wolf space marine...
really the possibilities are endless in the war 40k background.
Purity seals ward against demonic influence and mechanical faults, trophies are usually demonic fetishes for chaos, authority marks for orks, different patterns of helm offer different bonuses (go look up corvus vs aquilla), spike decorations increase melee damage/protection.
The robe of a Dark Angel is something specific to their chapter, selling that on top of the class would earn immeasurable ire, same with the wolf pelt of a Space Wolf. Go look it up in the lore before talking from arse.
I think you are doing it on purpose.
So basically for you if in EC sell cosmetic robe people get angry but if they sell side grade weapon hero class vehicles is perfecly fine?
if you really belive that cosmetic item are impossibile in a war 40k give direclty the feedback to the dev because cosmetic are considered already inside the founder program:
Excluding the different effects (which in Warhammer 40k could be an indication of more advanced construction, IE better weapons) what he said isn't what you said because he talks about customizing your armor/vehicles/etc which is a whole different beast than patterns, chapters,etc.
you are the only one that talked about locking chapter behind a paywall.
customizing armor and weapon with purity seal spike thropy etc etc etc is EXACLTY what i have said.
Originally posted by grigdusher Someone don't agree that a pure cosmetic founder( and in game shop) is simply better?
You want to lock away mastercrafted, artifact, etc stuff behind founder paywall? Think in Warhammer 40.000 what has only cosmetic differences and you will quickly see you either have something that has stats or you lock away chapters, craftworlds, etc to founders only.
you don't read.
You are a DoW boy because pure cosmetics do not exist in Warhammer 40.000, everything is linked to something (either cheaper weapons, more specialized weapons, etc).
you clearly have read no info about the game.
lol at the "dow boy"
"
Tell me about the Space Marine faction.
Space Marine chapters at launch include (at least) the Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.
Characters such as Assault Marines, Devastators, Apothecaries and Terminators feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Ork faction.
Ork clans at launch include (at least) the Evil Sunz, Bad Moons, Deathskulls and Goffs.
Characters such as Stormyboyz, Lootas, Mekboys & Meganobz feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Chaos Space Marine faction.
Chaos legions at launch include (at least) the Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, and Night Lords.
Characters such as Chosen, Havocs, Raptors & Terminators feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
Tell me about the Eldar faction.
Eldar craftworld at launch include (at least) Iyanden, Ulthwé, Saim-Hann, and Biel-tan.
Characters such as Dark Reapers, Dire Avengers, Wraithguards and Warlocks feature in the game, but the official class roster has not been announced yet.
"
Tell me where it says that each sub-faction won't have its own flavor? it would piss off a hell of allot of people if they didn't in which case tell me where do cosmetics fit in then.
so you copypasted here the site faq? for what purpose?
Who say that is needed to lock away chapters, craftworlds, etc to founders only?
Not me.
I don't have idea why you are talking about that chapter/craftword are subfaction not something only cosmetic.
I say the item shop of the game (and the founder program) are more fair and still sucesfull (because war 40k love cosmetic and personalization).
The lore and background of war 40k, is FULL of pattern and small variant in item.
think about purity seal for space marine armor, think about trophy, think about different shape of helmet , spike decoration on armor etc etc...
all faction and subfaction have a lot of decorative and cosmetic:
take as example the robe of a dark angel space marine.
Or a wolf pelt for a space wolf space marine...
really the possibilities are endless in the war 40k background.
Purity seals ward against demonic influence and mechanical faults, trophies are usually demonic fetishes for chaos, authority marks for orks, different patterns of helm offer different bonuses (go look up corvus vs aquilla), spike decorations increase melee damage/protection.
The robe of a Dark Angel is something specific to their chapter, selling that on top of the class would earn immeasurable ire, same with the wolf pelt of a Space Wolf. Go look it up in the lore before talking from arse.
I think you are doing it on purpose.
So basically for you if in EC sell cosmetic robe people get angry but if they sell side grade weapon hero class vehicles is perfecly fine?
if you really belive that cosmetic item are impossibile in a war 40k give direclty the feedback to the dev because cosmetic are considered already inside the founder program:
Excluding the different effects (which in Warhammer 40k could be an indication of more advanced construction, IE better weapons) what he said isn't what you said because he talks about customizing your armor/vehicles/etc which is a whole different beast than patterns, chapters,etc.
you are the only one that talked about locking chapter behind a paywall.
customizing armor and weapon with purity seal spike thropy etc etc etc is EXACLTY what i have said.
Dude... I already told you purity seals, spikes, trophies ARE FUNCTIONAL in this universe so you basically advocate P2W.
Cry more plz... If you like the game setting go fuckin buy the founderspack. If you don t like that founders may have an advantage in certain situations buy the founderspack. In general go buy a game if you like it to show your support and don t bea cheap ass only take and never give something back...
Retired : Daoc , Warhammer , WoW , Lotro , Tabula Rasa , Everquest 2 , Aion, Eve , AoC , SW:Tor ( failwars ), Planetside 2 Waiting : Star Citizen Playing : Star Citizen FPS : Overwatch
Unfortunately this game seems to be heading P2W route. And its not about f2p ork boys but about "Unique gameplay elments" that is ment for founders only
This is what Miguel says:
The unique pattern vehicles are variations on the theme of the basic vehicles you will get in the game. Weapons might be different and your special tank might be more anti-infantry then anti-tank. Unique Pattern Vehicles have different strengths and weaknesses to their in-game counterparts, but are balanced at the same level of power.
We believe that, at max upgrade, an attack bike with a multi-melta is roughly equivalent to 2 bikes with plasma guns
So basically they are selling stuff that is more powerful in certain situations than stuff that can be acquaired in game.
This is pure P2W its even worse than Star Citizen at least you can get best ships just playing the game, here there is not such an option.
Star Citizen is P2W? You kill your diatribe with misinformation at the start. If you want credibility check your facts first.
Imagine smth like this in Starcraft 2, CS:GO, LOL, DOTA 2, or even in some other MMOS, if there was smth like this in Planetside 2 hell would break loose.
This stuff is completely locked to founders !!! And worse thing is devs put this thing on vote... If they cant see that this is completely wrong then imagine what kinds of P2W stuff we will see later once game is live.
And the worst thing is on the poll in forums people are completely fine with this, While i am writing this 103 votes are YES and 79 are NO . And ionce you read the posts on this thread you can see most of those who voted yes have no idea vote they are voting for and how this could BREAK THE GAME !!!!
This is all really sad I hoped we 40k fans would get finally MMO that we want, but seems its not the case.
And btw Miguel is dodging this question like hell. Me and other posters on forums expressed our concerns even before this poll, but all we could get from him was smth like I HATE P2W and some usual PR stuff....
Looks like he "HATES" it so much that he will make this game most obvious P2W out of them all......
Star Citizen is P2W? You kill your diatribe with misinformation at the start. If you want credibility check your facts first. But i digress.
If Developers want to give better than normal loot and gear to players who backed them from the beginning when everyone else was asleep or nay saying.. well that's their choice. whether you couldn't afford to back, are hateful of crowd funding/kickstarter, or just a starving troll. The Developers feel they should give back to those who backed them. I don't see a problem with this.
Now it has been said that the stats on gear differences would be situational. So i have one major Argument for P2W noobs:
Pay to Win (P2W) Is when a developer installs a cash store or in teh event a game starts with a cash shop (free to play), That offers for real world cash items that offer superior advantages that would not otherwise be available to non paying players in game.
Any game offering the same items on both the cash store and in game cannot be pay to win. There is no chance of advantage/disadvantage when items are available to everyone the difference is usually time spent in game, or those lazy bastids with cash.
if you want to whine about them having more money i could give a few suggestions, but i've been warned about being uncouth before so not gonna do it.
In a nut shell, if its Free to Play then its got a cash store, however its dependent on the developer on whether they balance it or completely screw it up with pay to win.
Unfortunately this game seems to be heading P2W route. And its not about f2p ork boys but about "Unique gameplay elments" that is ment for founders only
This is what Miguel says:
The unique pattern vehicles are variations on the theme of the basic vehicles you will get in the game. Weapons might be different and your special tank might be more anti-infantry then anti-tank. Unique Pattern Vehicles have different strengths and weaknesses to their in-game counterparts, but are balanced at the same level of power.
We believe that, at max upgrade, an attack bike with a multi-melta is roughly equivalent to 2 bikes with plasma guns
So basically they are selling stuff that is more powerful in certain situations than stuff that can be acquaired in game.
This is pure P2W its even worse than Star Citizen at least you can get best ships just playing the game, here there is not such an option.
Star Citizen is P2W? You kill your diatribe with misinformation at the start. If you want credibility check your facts first.
Imagine smth like this in Starcraft 2, CS:GO, LOL, DOTA 2, or even in some other MMOS, if there was smth like this in Planetside 2 hell would break loose.
This stuff is completely locked to founders !!! And worse thing is devs put this thing on vote... If they cant see that this is completely wrong then imagine what kinds of P2W stuff we will see later once game is live.
And the worst thing is on the poll in forums people are completely fine with this, While i am writing this 103 votes are YES and 79 are NO . And ionce you read the posts on this thread you can see most of those who voted yes have no idea vote they are voting for and how this could BREAK THE GAME !!!!
This is all really sad I hoped we 40k fans would get finally MMO that we want, but seems its not the case.
And btw Miguel is dodging this question like hell. Me and other posters on forums expressed our concerns even before this poll, but all we could get from him was smth like I HATE P2W and some usual PR stuff....
Looks like he "HATES" it so much that he will make this game most obvious P2W out of them all......
Star Citizen is P2W? You kill your diatribe with misinformation at the start. If you want credibility check your facts first. But i digress.
If Developers want to give better than normal loot and gear to players who backed them from the beginning when everyone else was asleep or nay saying.. well that's their choice. whether you couldn't afford to back, are hateful of crowd funding/kickstarter, or just a starving troll. The Developers feel they should give back to those who backed them. I don't see a problem with this.
Now it has been said that the stats on gear differences would be situational. So i have one major Argument for P2W noobs:
Pay to Win (P2W) Is when a developer installs a cash store or in teh event a game starts with a cash shop (free to play), That offers for real world cash items that offer superior advantages that would not otherwise be available to non paying players in game.
Any game offering the same items on both the cash store and in game cannot be pay to win. There is no chance of advantage/disadvantage when items are available to everyone the difference is usually time spent in game, or those lazy bastids with cash.
if you want to whine about them having more money i could give a few suggestions, but i've been warned about being uncouth before so not gonna do it.
In a nut shell, if its Free to Play then its got a cash store, however its dependent on the developer on whether they balance it or completely screw it up with pay to win.
it's not a crowfounding/kicstarter, is a preorder the game is complete founder: is write in the article.
The final misconception we are going to talk about here today is the idea that these Founders Packs are being introduced to enable Behaviour to finish the game.
if it is like i understood it that there will be large scale battles and not those tiny pvp maps we're used to in most other games i dont see how it will be p2w.. because i would imagine those founder items would be in the minority and since they only seem to have minimal differences for certain situations i doubt it will even be noticeable.
Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?
If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.
And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...
If you knew the whole story you may have a leg to stand on. But you don't so you sound very ignorant.
The balance is there, there will not be mirrored classes, nothing will be OP or pay to win. You are only going off one part of the conversation and you are missing most of what was discussed about the topic on the official forums. Even the people that have said they are going to buy founders pack, have said they will not put up with Pay to win.
Seriously, go learn something about what you are trying to talk about before you run your mouth.
First you should learn some manners before you try to communicate with someone. I have been on official forums since start and watching this game development very closely.
Main reason i post about this game is since I care about it and love 40k Universe, dont want another Dark Millenium.
This game got it things right and only problem i have with is the one I am posting about. If you actually read smth I wrote here and on EC forums you wouldn't write your no value post.
Thank You Miguel for your post, I appreciate your response but I still remain a bit worried about ''unique gameplay elements'' stuff.
I believe it will only bring more problems and bad hype than positive ones. People who want to buy founder pack would do so even without ''gameplay elements''.
If those weapons/vehicles prove to be the best option for certain scenarios non founders would be quite gimped and angry. Especially since they wont be available for them to acquire.
As for XP booster I never complained about them and find them ok. I do think founders should get them and its strange when I see ppl finding them non fair towards non founders in EC forum poll.
As for DamonVile no one here is complaining here about F2P ork boys. Stuff we are talking about is should founders have gameplay elements that other ppl who buy game on release wont have. Anyway F2P ork boys look more like trial to me and I am more then happy this game took B2P route like GW2 and Star Citizen.
First, I don't need manners to deal with ignorance. Your hostile post in any event would preclude using any type of manners. 2nd if you had been on the official forums since they opened (as I have) you would know your stance is bullshit. So again, I am stating you are basing your assumptions off ignorance.
Most of what you say has no value and is again based on ignorance. But when you do finally go to to the official forums and figure some things out, then come back, and we will talk then. Until that point, you are just having a typing tantrum and looking for attention, which I will no longer give you.
As i thought you cant back your claims, all you write is go read official forums and how ignorant I am. Well go read official forums yourself, same concerns are there and large portion of players believe that this thing will be P2W.
Unfortunately this game seems to be heading P2W route. And its not about f2p ork boys but about "Unique gameplay elments" that is ment for founders only
This is what Miguel says:
The unique pattern vehicles are variations on the theme of the basic vehicles you will get in the game. Weapons might be different and your special tank might be more anti-infantry then anti-tank. Unique Pattern Vehicles have different strengths and weaknesses to their in-game counterparts, but are balanced at the same level of power.
We believe that, at max upgrade, an attack bike with a multi-melta is roughly equivalent to 2 bikes with plasma guns
So basically they are selling stuff that is more powerful in certain situations than stuff that can be acquaired in game.
This is pure P2W its even worse than Star Citizen at least you can get best ships just playing the game, here there is not such an option.
Star Citizen is P2W? You kill your diatribe with misinformation at the start. If you want credibility check your facts first.
Imagine smth like this in Starcraft 2, CS:GO, LOL, DOTA 2, or even in some other MMOS, if there was smth like this in Planetside 2 hell would break loose.
This stuff is completely locked to founders !!! And worse thing is devs put this thing on vote... If they cant see that this is completely wrong then imagine what kinds of P2W stuff we will see later once game is live.
And the worst thing is on the poll in forums people are completely fine with this, While i am writing this 103 votes are YES and 79 are NO . And ionce you read the posts on this thread you can see most of those who voted yes have no idea vote they are voting for and how this could BREAK THE GAME !!!!
This is all really sad I hoped we 40k fans would get finally MMO that we want, but seems its not the case.
And btw Miguel is dodging this question like hell. Me and other posters on forums expressed our concerns even before this poll, but all we could get from him was smth like I HATE P2W and some usual PR stuff....
Looks like he "HATES" it so much that he will make this game most obvious P2W out of them all......
Star Citizen is P2W? You kill your diatribe with misinformation at the start. If you want credibility check your facts first. But i digress.
If Developers want to give better than normal loot and gear to players who backed them from the beginning when everyone else was asleep or nay saying.. well that's their choice. whether you couldn't afford to back, are hateful of crowd funding/kickstarter, or just a starving troll. The Developers feel they should give back to those who backed them. I don't see a problem with this.
Now it has been said that the stats on gear differences would be situational. So i have one major Argument for P2W noobs:
Pay to Win (P2W) Is when a developer installs a cash store or in teh event a game starts with a cash shop (free to play), That offers for real world cash items that offer superior advantages that would not otherwise be available to non paying players in game.
Any game offering the same items on both the cash store and in game cannot be pay to win. There is no chance of advantage/disadvantage when items are available to everyone the difference is usually time spent in game, or those lazy bastids with cash.
if you want to whine about them having more money i could give a few suggestions, but i've been warned about being uncouth before so not gonna do it.
In a nut shell, if its Free to Play then its got a cash store, however its dependent on the developer on whether they balance it or completely screw it up with pay to win.
And that is clearly not the case in Eternal Crusade since founders will be getting items that are not available to normal buyers.
And you obviously didnt understand the problem. And btw I dont think SC is P2W, unlike EC in SC you can get all items in game, here as i said that is not the case......
This founders nonsense is just that, nonsense. I like Warhammer, but I would not touch this travesty with a 10 foot pole. It is ok to give cosmetic things as a bonus, but when you give items that are superior to what is in game and that effect gameplay that is a definite pay-to-win scenario and hence leads to a significant downgrade of this game.
This founders nonsense is just that, nonsense. I like Warhammer, but I would not touch this travesty with a 10 foot pole. It is ok to give cosmetic things as a bonus, but when you give items that are superior to what is in game and that effect gameplay that is a definite pay-to-win scenario and hence leads to a significant downgrade of this game.
They aren't superior... they are sidegrades....
miguelcaronStudio Head - BehaviourMemberUncommonPosts: 70
Originally posted by Grotar89
Originally posted by miguelcaro
Dear Crusader Grotar89,
-Last regarding sidegrade. What you are actually saying is TRUE but your conclusion is flawed mainly since PLAYERS CANT KNOW IN ADVENCE WHAT THE SITUATION WILL BE IN THE BATTLEFIELD. To switch build you need to die first (that mean if you paid... well you did not win.. your dead!) then you can switch to a sidegrade that you ''feel'' (not know) could be better but then again.... in a massive battles with hundreds of players 5 min has passed and what you felt might be irrelevent again.
Like Sun Tzu said: A plan (sidegrade) is only good until the first arrow is shoot.
Regard
p.s. As you learn to know me more. I have tons of weakness but DODGING is certainly not one of them.... quite the opposite. Looking forward to dodge your skilled attack in game Brother. :-)
Well that is one of the the things I am worried about.
Lets say my faction is fighting at medium to close range in lets say enemy fort. Now for example I am quite aware that my Founder bolter has less range but does more dmg compared to standard (non founder) one.
I am most likely to equip it since i wont be shooting at great distance and range means nothing to me so I want to kill my enemy faster.
Wouldn't I have advantage over plalyers who don't have access to founder bolter ?
As for death, what stops me form dying and coming back 30 seconds with loadout that is better suited for given scenario ( lets say taking my founder bolter for close/ medium range combat) ?
And I will pull parallel with Planetside 2 thats seems somehow similar to EC.
If I am fighting in enemy base I am most likely gonna take Heavy or MAX since they can take and deal more dmg than Engineer. And if I die as Engi I just take Heavy, spawn at my sunderer and back in action after 30 seconds or less and siege still last next 30 min.
I dont think it will be that hard to predict what kind of loadout to pick for upcoming situation or I am wrong..... ( and as I said even when I die what stops me form coming back after 30 sec, with more suitable loadout ? )
Ha, I get it Crusader, then you have nothing to worry. I think your concern comes from the terms we used ''Unique Gameplay element for founders''
That my bad, I did not realise that Unique gameplay element could be understood as game mechanics element.... which is NOT.
What tic me to this is when you used RANGE as an exemple. RANGE would be a direct P2W element and these type of element will NOT be in Eternal Crusade.
The sidegrade will only have some small element of difference where players can ONLY make an educated GUESS on what is best on the battle field.
Like you caractere has (simplified exemple) 7 strengh and 9 speed and the sidegrade has 9 strengh and 7 speed.
Same for Vehicules.
80% of the difference between (yeah, Its not an empiric data but a philosophical one) founders items and none founders one will be AESTITIC and the 20% left will be playing around only element that can't give an forseen adventage ingame.
Obvisouly, keeping true to our promise, founders will help us making sure through BETA that our philosophie is well implemented.
When you died... yes you can come with what you think is a better loadout..... but with a massive battle going on.... what you think you need and what you will REALLY need on the battlefield will have changed. Minutes means hours on an active battlefield.
This is our WIKI (made by fans.... way better than what my team can do :-) ) tons of details are in there.
Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade
miguelcaronStudio Head - BehaviourMemberUncommonPosts: 70
Originally posted by Swids2010 I was really looking forward to Dark millennium that was starting to look like it would be a great MMO such a shame they went bankrupt and shutdown. Then I heard about Eternal crusade and thought cool still getting a 40k mmo but the more I read about the more I loose interest its becoming less a MMO and more a p2w 3rd person generic shooter with the 40k license slapped on it.
Dear Crusader,
Could you provide some exemple please on your conclusion?
Dark Millenium was a Story Base (like WoW) game with Stat Base Combat with PvE focus.
Eternal Crusade is a System Base game with Skill base combat with PvP focus.
If you prefer the first, its great but feel free to go visit this fan base WIKI about Eternal Crusade since the reason you brought are actually not even related to Eternal Crusade.
We are not a Shooter, We are so Innovative vs Generic that we won the E3 innovation award and our monetisation was discussed in our forums to meet what the PLAYERS EVEN before we even had a prototype. Thats not ''slapping it on top''
We are 3rd person! :-) So if you dont like that perspective then Eternal Crusade is not for you.
We dont have a marketing firewal and we will NOT try to make a Game for EVERYBODY to like. We are making a GAME for a LOT of people to LOVE.
Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade
miguelcaronStudio Head - BehaviourMemberUncommonPosts: 70
Originally posted by Ozmodan
This founders nonsense is just that, nonsense. I like Warhammer, but I would not touch this travesty with a 10 foot pole. It is ok to give cosmetic things as a bonus, but when you give items that are superior to what is in game and that effect gameplay that is a definite pay-to-win scenario and hence leads to a significant downgrade of this game.
Dear Crusader Ozmodan,
Would you be so kind as to let me know where in ANY official forum, article or even my interviews where EVER we mentionned that we will give SUPERIOR items to founders.
When someone use the harsh expression ''I wont touch this traversty with a 10 foot pole'' I have to assume that person has official knowledge that their comments are TRUE.
Remember, with Eternal Crusade.... VENTING does not exist since we have decided on a NO MARKETING FIREWALL between devs and fan.
That means when you use HARSH comments, I read it and I am the Studio Head involved with the team AND the fans in that ''travesti''
Plus, we are LISTENING to your feedback and acting on it. We can't do that if you make hard negative comments that are actually not related to our Game at all.
-points above- And that ladies and gents is why A) this game is worth taking a poke at when released and what beating someone's opinion with facts and logical arguments looks like. Some game devs could take at least notes on that part of Behavioral's approach to PR.
Now if you'll excuse me I will go show a KV-1 it's arse end in War Thunder while hoping, secretly, to be able to do that in Eternal Crusade some day as well .
-Last regarding sidegrade. What you are actually saying is TRUE but your conclusion is flawed mainly since PLAYERS CANT KNOW IN ADVENCE WHAT THE SITUATION WILL BE IN THE BATTLEFIELD. To switch build you need to die first (that mean if you paid... well you did not win.. your dead!) then you can switch to a sidegrade that you ''feel'' (not know) could be better but then again.... in a massive battles with hundreds of players 5 min has passed and what you felt might be irrelevent again.
Like Sun Tzu said: A plan (sidegrade) is only good until the first arrow is shoot.
Regard
p.s. As you learn to know me more. I have tons of weakness but DODGING is certainly not one of them.... quite the opposite. Looking forward to dodge your skilled attack in game Brother. :-)
Well that is one of the the things I am worried about.
Lets say my faction is fighting at medium to close range in lets say enemy fort. Now for example I am quite aware that my Founder bolter has less range but does more dmg compared to standard (non founder) one.
I am most likely to equip it since i wont be shooting at great distance and range means nothing to me so I want to kill my enemy faster.
Wouldn't I have advantage over plalyers who don't have access to founder bolter ?
As for death, what stops me form dying and coming back 30 seconds with loadout that is better suited for given scenario ( lets say taking my founder bolter for close/ medium range combat) ?
And I will pull parallel with Planetside 2 thats seems somehow similar to EC.
If I am fighting in enemy base I am most likely gonna take Heavy or MAX since they can take and deal more dmg than Engineer. And if I die as Engi I just take Heavy, spawn at my sunderer and back in action after 30 seconds or less and siege still last next 30 min.
I dont think it will be that hard to predict what kind of loadout to pick for upcoming situation or I am wrong..... ( and as I said even when I die what stops me form coming back after 30 sec, with more suitable loadout ? )
Ha, I get it Crusader, then you have nothing to worry. I think your concern comes from the terms we used ''Unique Gameplay element for founders''
That my bad, I did not realise that Unique gameplay element could be understood as game mechanics element.... which is NOT.
What tic me to this is when you used RANGE as an exemple. RANGE would be a direct P2W element and these type of element will NOT be in Eternal Crusade.
The sidegrade will only have some small element of difference where players can ONLY make an educated GUESS on what is best on the battle field.
Like you caractere has (simplified exemple) 7 strengh and 9 speed and the sidegrade has 9 strengh and 7 speed.
Same for Vehicules.
80% of the difference between (yeah, Its not an empiric data but a philosophical one) founders items and none founders one will be AESTITIC and the 20% left will be playing around only element that can't give an forseen adventage ingame.
Obvisouly, keeping true to our promise, founders will help us making sure through BETA that our philosophie is well implemented.
When you died... yes you can come with what you think is a better loadout..... but with a massive battle going on.... what you think you need and what you will REALLY need on the battlefield will have changed. Minutes means hours on an active battlefield.
This is our WIKI (made by fans.... way better than what my team can do :-) ) tons of details are in there.
Ha, I get it Crusader, then you have nothing to worry. I think your concern comes from the terms we used ''Unique Gameplay element for founders''
That my bad, I did not realise that Unique gameplay element could be understood as game mechanics element.... which is NOT.
What tic me to this is when you used RANGE as an exemple. RANGE would be a direct P2W element and these type of element will NOT be in Eternal Crusade.
The sidegrade will only have some small element of difference where players can ONLY make an educated GUESS on what is best on the battle field.
Like you caractere has (simplified exemple) 7 strengh and 9 speed and the sidegrade has 9 strengh and 7 speed.
Same for Vehicules.
80% of the difference between (yeah, Its not an empiric data but a philosophical one) founders items and none founders one will be AESTITIC and the 20% left will be playing around only element that can't give an forseen adventage ingame.
Obvisouly, keeping true to our promise, founders will help us making sure through BETA that our philosophie is well implemented.
When you died... yes you can come with what you think is a better loadout..... but with a massive battle going on.... what you think you need and what you will REALLY need on the battlefield will have changed. Minutes means hours on an active battlefield.
This is our WIKI (made by fans.... way better than what my team can do :-) ) tons of details are in there.
When you first made the thread about *what is pay2win* you made a comparison to PoE as a good example that was clean from p2w elements and I really hoped you would use it as inspiration for the cash shop in this game. I was thinking this is the guy to make a great game. I would buy whatever cosmetics he throws at me.
Why do you suddenly insist on these modified weapons for founders and then locked from the regular buyers? Why do you insist on a two man bike locked for founders only.
Most people can swallow the *exp boosts* pill you gave us. But these altered weapons and bikes ? Why ? If you start like this during alpha where will you end up later ? Exclusives on every added race ?
I'm buying the founders package even though I detest these early access things. My desire for this game to be great is just bigger than my distaste. But I also want to get my friends into the game. How am I supposed to tell them that on release if they want to play with me they will have to pay more and certain things I have will be locked for them ? I've tried once now and my friend told he simply won't play with me.
And finally. Many of the arguments used here are exactly the type of arguments used to defend pay2win games on every forum known to man.
*but it's situational*
*but it has downsides*
*but there are many people so it won't matter*
*but you will not be sure what to use since the battlefield is vast and constantly shifting so it's ok to have these downright different items/vehicles*
Just having more choice than the rest puts you on on a different level. Is this necessary for the game ?
I'm buying the founders package even though I detest these early access things. My desire for this game to be great is just bigger than my distaste. But I also want to get my friends into the game. How am I supposed to tell them that on release if they want to play with me they will have to pay more and certain things I have will be locked for them ? I've tried once now and my friend told he simply won't play with me.
Sounds like you have some shitty "friends".
Also, the Attack Bike is available to Founders sooner than it will be available to non-Founders. It, and other Founder perks, are NOT exclusive. Most of the exclusive items are cosmetic only.
Also, those of you who insist on calling more options Pay to Win, do you not understand that Behaviour wants to make a great game, so why would they allow weapons that are only going to drive players away? That's bad game design, and these guys are smarter than that.
Why not wait and see what they come up with before you start bashing it like it was crawling on your neck.
I'm buying the founders package even though I detest these early access things. My desire for this game to be great is just bigger than my distaste. But I also want to get my friends into the game. How am I supposed to tell them that on release if they want to play with me they will have to pay more and certain things I have will be locked for them ? I've tried once now and my friend told he simply won't play with me.
Sounds like you have some shitty "friends".
Also, the Attack Bike is available to Founders sooner than it will be available to non-Founders. It, and other Founder perks, are NOT exclusive. Most of the exclusive items are cosmetic only.
Also, those of you who insist on calling more options Pay to Win, do you not understand that Behaviour wants to make a great game, so why would they allow weapons that are only going to drive players away? That's bad game design, and these guys are smarter than that.
Why not wait and see what they come up with before you start bashing it like it was crawling on your neck.
I've been around the forums for 8 months. I've hyped this game to everyone who might play it in my friend circle during this time. But now with exp boosts and these exclusives I have no way to promote it to friends anymore. Most people are skeptic about founders programs and early access to begin with. Then I tell them about exclusives and exp boosts and they are gone. And frankly if I wasn't a fan of 40k I'd be gone too.
I've yet to see a reasonable explanation for adding exclusive items that are not cosmetics in. Sure some people will pay more but many others won't touch the game at all.
Once upon a time, games were produced to be fun and engaging and only cost a one time fee, giving the same game for everyone. That is all in the past.
These days these bloodsucking companies try to monetise every single thing. Gaming is not entertainment for them, it is big business. Some may think this is good but I miss the old days of gaming...
Hate to tell you, but it's always been about business. Just because it is, doesn't mean that they don't try to make it fun. That's just good business.
I'm buying the founders package even though I detest these early access things. My desire for this game to be great is just bigger than my distaste. But I also want to get my friends into the game. How am I supposed to tell them that on release if they want to play with me they will have to pay more and certain things I have will be locked for them ? I've tried once now and my friend told he simply won't play with me.
Sounds like you have some shitty "friends".
Also, the Attack Bike is available to Founders sooner than it will be available to non-Founders. It, and other Founder perks, are NOT exclusive. Most of the exclusive items are cosmetic only.
Also, those of you who insist on calling more options Pay to Win, do you not understand that Behaviour wants to make a great game, so why would they allow weapons that are only going to drive players away? That's bad game design, and these guys are smarter than that.
Why not wait and see what they come up with before you start bashing it like it was crawling on your neck.
I've been around the forums for 8 months. I've hyped this game to everyone who might play it in my friend circle during this time. But now with exp boosts and these exclusives I have no way to promote it to friends anymore. Most people are skeptic about founders programs and early access to begin with. Then I tell them about exclusives and exp boosts and they are gone. And frankly if I wasn't a fan of 40k I'd be gone too.
I've yet to see a reasonable explanation for adding exclusive items that are not cosmetics in. Sure some people will pay more but many others won't touch the game at all.
-smh-
Been pointed out that founders get certain things unlocked early and yes a few items which are cosmetically different but functionally nearly the same as their regular counterparts. If you were a fan of 40k you'd know what this means in practice ( possibly slightly more volatile bolters, slightly more damage for some draw back, possibly archaic armor which has better armor but less powered elements which means more protection from flamer-type weapons but get hit with a power weapon and you iz fucked, etc,etc,etc). Almost every MMO and its mom has had non-cosmetic items for Collector's editions but, as I suspect the case is here, those items have minimal practical difference in day to day gaming and considering this is a skill based not gear based MMOFPS I will let you guess how minimal a difference a slight stat difference in gear can make ( just enough for your founding ass to get scraped off my Nob boot and thrown back to an assembly area).
Been pointed out that founders get certain things unlocked early and yes a few items which are cosmetically different but functionally nearly the same as their regular counterparts. If you were a fan of 40k you'd know what this means in practice ( possibly slightly more volatile bolters, slightly more damage for some draw back, possibly archaic armor which has better armor but less powered elements which means more protection from flamer-type weapons but get hit with a power weapon and you iz fucked, etc,etc,etc). Almost every MMO and its mom has had non-cosmetic items for Collector's editions but, as I suspect the case is here, those items have minimal practical difference in day to day gaming and considering this is a skill based not gear based MMOFPS I will let you guess how minimal a difference a slight stat difference in gear can make ( just enough for your founding ass to get scraped off my Nob boot and thrown back to an assembly area).
First: no. The information on founders came very late.
Second: This isn't tabletop so your comparison is mostly invalid. We don't even really know how far customizations could go but extra customizations are always a plus. A slight percentage difference could be the stepping stone to a more efficient build and it usually is. A two man bike remains the thing you want to use with friends but it's locked from you for no other reason that to make founders feel special.
Third: You are a non-founder yet you support founder exclusives that limit you from certain vehicles ? What is wrong with you ?
But why do I waste my breath. You are the guy ignoring the issue with *every other mmo has it* and talking about kicking ass.
Comments
Excluding the different effects (which in Warhammer 40k could be an indication of more advanced construction, IE better weapons) what he said isn't what you said because he talks about customizing your armor/vehicles/etc which is a whole different beast than patterns, chapters,etc.
you are the only one that talked about locking chapter behind a paywall.
customizing armor and weapon with purity seal spike thropy etc etc etc is EXACLTY what i have said.
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Dude... I already told you purity seals, spikes, trophies ARE FUNCTIONAL in this universe so you basically advocate P2W.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Purity_seal#.U48oiii3jLM
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chieftain_Trophy_Rack#.U48o1Si3jLM (similar function for orks but also inspiration for the lesser orks)
Shall I even go into detail how much it would be more advantageous for a khornate berzerker to be spikier?
Modifying armor in adding more battle honors etc, a deeper heraldry, etc.
If you like the game setting go fuckin buy the founderspack.
If you don t like that founders may have an advantage in certain situations buy the founderspack.
In general go buy a game if you like it to show your support and don t bea cheap ass only take and never give something back...
Retired : Daoc , Warhammer , WoW , Lotro , Tabula Rasa
, Everquest 2 , Aion, Eve , AoC , SW:Tor ( failwars ), Planetside 2
Waiting : Star Citizen
Playing : Star Citizen
FPS : Overwatch
Yt chan : https://www.youtube.com/user/raine187
Star Citizen is P2W? You kill your diatribe with misinformation at the start. If you want credibility check your facts first. But i digress.
If Developers want to give better than normal loot and gear to players who backed them from the beginning when everyone else was asleep or nay saying.. well that's their choice. whether you couldn't afford to back, are hateful of crowd funding/kickstarter, or just a starving troll. The Developers feel they should give back to those who backed them. I don't see a problem with this.
Now it has been said that the stats on gear differences would be situational. So i have one major Argument for P2W noobs:
Pay to Win (P2W) Is when a developer installs a cash store or in teh event a game starts with a cash shop (free to play), That offers for real world cash items that offer superior advantages that would not otherwise be available to non paying players in game.
Any game offering the same items on both the cash store and in game cannot be pay to win. There is no chance of advantage/disadvantage when items are available to everyone the difference is usually time spent in game, or those lazy bastids with cash.
if you want to whine about them having more money i could give a few suggestions, but i've been warned about being uncouth before so not gonna do it.
In a nut shell, if its Free to Play then its got a cash store, however its dependent on the developer on whether they balance it or completely screw it up with pay to win.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
it's not a crowfounding/kicstarter, is a preorder the game is complete founder: is write in the article.
The final misconception we are going to talk about here today is the idea that these Founders Packs are being introduced to enable Behaviour to finish the game.
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I had fun once, it was terrible.
As i thought you cant back your claims, all you write is go read official forums and how ignorant I am. Well go read official forums yourself, same concerns are there and large portion of players believe that this thing will be P2W.
[mod edit]
And that is clearly not the case in Eternal Crusade since founders will be getting items that are not available to normal buyers.
And you obviously didnt understand the problem. And btw I dont think SC is P2W, unlike EC in SC you can get all items in game, here as i said that is not the case......
This founders nonsense is just that, nonsense. I like Warhammer, but I would not touch this travesty with a 10 foot pole. It is ok to give cosmetic things as a bonus, but when you give items that are superior to what is in game and that effect gameplay that is a definite pay-to-win scenario and hence leads to a significant downgrade of this game.
They aren't superior... they are sidegrades....
Ha, I get it Crusader, then you have nothing to worry. I think your concern comes from the terms we used ''Unique Gameplay element for founders''
That my bad, I did not realise that Unique gameplay element could be understood as game mechanics element.... which is NOT.
What tic me to this is when you used RANGE as an exemple. RANGE would be a direct P2W element and these type of element will NOT be in Eternal Crusade.
The sidegrade will only have some small element of difference where players can ONLY make an educated GUESS on what is best on the battle field.
Like you caractere has (simplified exemple) 7 strengh and 9 speed and the sidegrade has 9 strengh and 7 speed.
Same for Vehicules.
80% of the difference between (yeah, Its not an empiric data but a philosophical one) founders items and none founders one will be AESTITIC and the 20% left will be playing around only element that can't give an forseen adventage ingame.
Obvisouly, keeping true to our promise, founders will help us making sure through BETA that our philosophie is well implemented.
When you died... yes you can come with what you think is a better loadout..... but with a massive battle going on.... what you think you need and what you will REALLY need on the battlefield will have changed. Minutes means hours on an active battlefield.
This is our WIKI (made by fans.... way better than what my team can do :-) ) tons of details are in there.
http://eternalcrusade.wikia.com/wiki/Eternal_Crusade_Wiki
Regards
Miguel
Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade
Dear Crusader,
Could you provide some exemple please on your conclusion?
Dark Millenium was a Story Base (like WoW) game with Stat Base Combat with PvE focus.
Eternal Crusade is a System Base game with Skill base combat with PvP focus.
If you prefer the first, its great but feel free to go visit this fan base WIKI about Eternal Crusade since the reason you brought are actually not even related to Eternal Crusade.
We are not a Shooter, We are so Innovative vs Generic that we won the E3 innovation award and our monetisation was discussed in our forums to meet what the PLAYERS EVEN before we even had a prototype. Thats not ''slapping it on top''
We are 3rd person! :-) So if you dont like that perspective then Eternal Crusade is not for you.
We dont have a marketing firewal and we will NOT try to make a Game for EVERYBODY to like. We are making a GAME for a LOT of people to LOVE.
Here is our wiki
http://eternalcrusade.wikia.com/wiki/Eternal_Crusade_Wiki
Regards
Behaviour
Miguel Caron
Studio Head, Online Games and
Executive Producer for:
Warhammer 40 000 Eternal Crusade
Chris Roberts, Star Citizen
Skype: miguel.caron
Twitter: @miguelcaron
bhvr.com
Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade
Dear Crusader Ozmodan,
Would you be so kind as to let me know where in ANY official forum, article or even my interviews where EVER we mentionned that we will give SUPERIOR items to founders.
When someone use the harsh expression ''I wont touch this traversty with a 10 foot pole'' I have to assume that person has official knowledge that their comments are TRUE.
Remember, with Eternal Crusade.... VENTING does not exist since we have decided on a NO MARKETING FIREWALL between devs and fan.
That means when you use HARSH comments, I read it and I am the Studio Head involved with the team AND the fans in that ''travesti''
Plus, we are LISTENING to your feedback and acting on it. We can't do that if you make hard negative comments that are actually not related to our Game at all.
Please go see our WIKI, made by fans here http://eternalcrusade.wikia.com/wiki/Eternal_Crusade_Wiki
Behaviour
Miguel Caron
Studio Head, Online Games and
Executive Producer for:
Warhammer 40 000 Eternal Crusade
Chris Roberts, Star Citizen
Skype: miguel.caron
Twitter: @miguelcaron
bhvr.com
Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade
-points above- And that ladies and gents is why A) this game is worth taking a poke at when released and
what beating someone's opinion with facts and logical arguments looks like. Some game devs could take at least notes on that part of Behavioral's approach to PR.
Now if you'll excuse me I will go show a KV-1 it's arse end in War Thunder while hoping, secretly, to be able to do that in Eternal Crusade some day as well
.
yes Miguel "Unique gameplay element" was the expression that concerned some people.
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You DO realize posting in title US, a lot of people thought is being developed only for US, like in United States...
It's Being Developed for us!
What's wrong with writing without capitals ?
Cheers
It's being developed for US! ...what he said
It's being developed for the US!....what he didn't say
It's really not all that unclear what he means.
Miguel I am amazed at you.
When you first made the thread about *what is pay2win* you made a comparison to PoE as a good example that was clean from p2w elements and I really hoped you would use it as inspiration for the cash shop in this game. I was thinking this is the guy to make a great game. I would buy whatever cosmetics he throws at me.
Why do you suddenly insist on these modified weapons for founders and then locked from the regular buyers? Why do you insist on a two man bike locked for founders only.
Most people can swallow the *exp boosts* pill you gave us. But these altered weapons and bikes ? Why ? If you start like this during alpha where will you end up later ? Exclusives on every added race ?
I'm buying the founders package even though I detest these early access things. My desire for this game to be great is just bigger than my distaste. But I also want to get my friends into the game. How am I supposed to tell them that on release if they want to play with me they will have to pay more and certain things I have will be locked for them ? I've tried once now and my friend told he simply won't play with me.
And finally. Many of the arguments used here are exactly the type of arguments used to defend pay2win games on every forum known to man.
*but it's situational*
*but it has downsides*
*but there are many people so it won't matter*
*but you will not be sure what to use since the battlefield is vast and constantly shifting so it's ok to have these downright different items/vehicles*
Just having more choice than the rest puts you on on a different level. Is this necessary for the game ?
Sounds like you have some shitty "friends".
Also, the Attack Bike is available to Founders sooner than it will be available to non-Founders. It, and other Founder perks, are NOT exclusive. Most of the exclusive items are cosmetic only.
Also, those of you who insist on calling more options Pay to Win, do you not understand that Behaviour wants to make a great game, so why would they allow weapons that are only going to drive players away? That's bad game design, and these guys are smarter than that.
Why not wait and see what they come up with before you start bashing it like it was crawling on your neck.
T
I've been around the forums for 8 months. I've hyped this game to everyone who might play it in my friend circle during this time. But now with exp boosts and these exclusives I have no way to promote it to friends anymore. Most people are skeptic about founders programs and early access to begin with. Then I tell them about exclusives and exp boosts and they are gone. And frankly if I wasn't a fan of 40k I'd be gone too.
I've yet to see a reasonable explanation for adding exclusive items that are not cosmetics in. Sure some people will pay more but many others won't touch the game at all.
Hate to tell you, but it's always been about business. Just because it is, doesn't mean that they don't try to make it fun. That's just good business.
I self identify as a monkey.
-smh-
Been pointed out that founders get certain things unlocked early and yes a few items which are cosmetically different but functionally nearly the same as their regular counterparts. If you were a fan of 40k you'd know what this means in practice ( possibly slightly more volatile bolters, slightly more damage for some draw back, possibly archaic armor which has better armor but less powered elements which means more protection from flamer-type weapons but get hit with a power weapon and you iz fucked, etc,etc,etc). Almost every MMO and its mom has had non-cosmetic items for Collector's editions but, as I suspect the case is here, those items have minimal practical difference in day to day gaming and considering this is a skill based not gear based MMOFPS I will let you guess how minimal a difference a slight stat difference in gear can make ( just enough for your founding ass to get scraped off my Nob boot and thrown back to an assembly area).
First: no. The information on founders came very late.
Second: This isn't tabletop so your comparison is mostly invalid. We don't even really know how far customizations could go but extra customizations are always a plus. A slight percentage difference could be the stepping stone to a more efficient build and it usually is. A two man bike remains the thing you want to use with friends but it's locked from you for no other reason that to make founders feel special.
Third: You are a non-founder yet you support founder exclusives that limit you from certain vehicles ? What is wrong with you ?
But why do I waste my breath. You are the guy ignoring the issue with *every other mmo has it* and talking about kicking ass.