This game has the biggest potential to offer everything an MMO should (like Vanilla WoW, TBC etc), with some next gen tech. People at Sony seem dead set on producing something of high quality.
I really hate when people use Vanilla WoW/TBC as a example of the ideal MMO. To me it seems like the WoW generations version of what us old EQ players call EQ nostalgia. Yea Vanilla/TBC was a whoooole lot better than what WoW currently is and maybe it is a good platform for a company to build off of now (wildstar anyone?).
When I think about Vanilla WoW or Everquest 1 I have to wonder whether or not either of those games would gather such a huge following right now. They were more niche and this genre has been dumbed down for so long that most current MMO players probably wouldn't be able to take EQ or Vanilla.
The main thing I see when I look at EQ1 is a game that was made with a specific audience. It didn't try to appeal to the massive audience that todays MMO's are targeting. When I look at EQ Next I see another MMO that is trying to "revolutionize the industry" in order to do that they pretty much have to be targeting the entire MMO market. So while I'm hopeful SOE will pull something out of their ass I'm still worried that they are just making another game that tries to be good for everyone but not amazing.
Also something most people have forgotten is this, SOE did not make Everquest 1.... Verant did and Sony acquired them and slowly but surely EQ turned to a pile of shit... All I'm sayin is SOE doesn't exactly have the greatest track record of making good MMO's so I'm pretty damn skeptical
The main thing I see when I look at EQ1 is a game that was made with a specific audience. It didn't try to appeal to the massive audience that todays MMO's are targeting. When I look at EQ Next I see another MMO that is trying to "revolutionize the industry" in order to do that they pretty much have to be targeting the entire MMO market.
This coupled with the presentation that they are promoting the no restrictions/everyone can do/be everything. So it's ESO/GW2 with some player created content to pacify people in between expansions. I think exploring the world will be fun and collecting the abilities will be interesting, I'm just not sure that will be enough after a month has gone by.
The large class selection is a huge plus for me but if they limit me to one weapon per class, then that cancels out that positive. Please let me play my class the way i want in the style i prefer.
In a perfect world, i'd like an expanded trinity to make use of all those fantastic classes. From the little info we have, i get a strong GW2 impression, which is not what i'm looking for as far as group PVE content goes.
I'm fine with the whole "everyone can be everything" aspect as long as the content dictates that i still need roles. If the encounters boil down to everyone swapping to a DPS build to burn bosses down faster to not have to deal with mechanics, like GW2 did, then that'll be a huge mistake.
Neverwinter is an amzing game for the uber rich or the super casual. What it does it does well. While I no longer play Neverwinter Iconsider it to have the best combat in the genre. One I wish was used more often instead of this quasi-combat crap that plagues games like Wildstar, ESO and GW2.
For the record I am super touched that you follow my posting patterns and know about what former posts I've made. E-Stalker alert LOL.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Really depends on what you consider "hardcore." For me the common use I see seems to mean time-sink. Many connect "oldschool" with "hardcore" but not everyone does. I would much rather it actually mean hard as in challenging, instead of who can sit on their ass the longest standing in place going down a long row of skills.
Holy trinity along with tab targeting and grinding are about as non-hardcore as a game can get for me. Never felt challenged in early EQ or vanilla WoW for all the "hardcore" claims people have about raiding. Show up with XYZ classes, learn the pattern, repeat until geared, learn next pattern, repeat... When you can google/youtube what to do, not very hard.
Now if they can get emergent AI to actually make players think on their toes, have to figure out what class/build/gear to use and have it change from one encounter to the next, I might find a challenge worthy of being called "hardcore."
Only one person gets touched, oops my bad. Was being too hardcore!
Glad I aged out before that became the thing, love the guys in front of cam, listening to slow jams maybe?
Ya, it kind of confused me when he brought up the word "hardcore" then put it in a statement talking about "Class roles". As if group-makeup and abilities denote if a game is "hardcore" or not lol.
I can understand people using hardcore when talking about how brutal the pvp rules are, or how painful death penalties are, or even how much time is required to fully build up a character... but this guy wasn't even talking about that kind of stuff.
Neverwinter is an amzing game for the uber rich or the super casual. What it does it does well. While I no longer play Neverwinter Iconsider it to have the best combat in the genre. One I wish was used more often instead of this quasi-combat crap that plagues games like Wildstar, ESO and GW2.
For the record I am super touched that you follow my posting patterns and know about what former posts I've made. E-Stalker alert LOL.
I'd have to agree, neverwinter's combat system is pretty solid and for the type of game they aimed to deliver, they did it really well. I'd say Tera did action combat pretty good as well though.
I disagree with you on GW2 however. They had a lot of interesting mechanics and the combat feels great.
Neverwinter is an amzing game for the uber rich or the super casual. What it does it does well. While I no longer play Neverwinter Iconsider it to have the best combat in the genre. One I wish was used more often instead of this quasi-combat crap that plagues games like Wildstar, ESO and GW2.
For the record I am super touched that you follow my posting patterns and know about what former posts I've made. E-Stalker alert LOL.
I'd have to agree, neverwinter's combat system is pretty solid and for the type of game they aimed to deliver, they did it really well. I'd say Tera did action combat pretty good as well though.
I disagree with you on GW2 however. They had a lot of interesting mechanics and the combat feels great.
GW2's combat was good in how it was delivered but I'm not a fan of hybridization of combat techniques in my MMO's. I feel it would of been much better if it was pure tab target or pure action. As it were I used the Combat Mod for GW2 that used AutoHotkey to turn it into a pure reticule based combat system. In much the same way I'll be using the same mod for Wildstar.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I cant believe people are still getting hyped on plain promises...Eqn showed us so few lousy videos, said the game will be super awesome and half the people here are shi****ing their pants like if they werent let down so many time
Once i see a proper gameplay with all the features they promised i might change my mind. But what i see now is a giant bubble hyped up on famous Ip in mmo genre and nothing to back up its claims - not impressed
We're hyped not because they're not promising a huge amount of unrealistic and wild ideas. Just a handful of completely doable concepts that many of us long time MMO fans have been craving and all the major AAA MMOs have failed to deliver.
From a developer who can't seem to ever tell the truth? Because we are also getting H1Z1, the spiritual successor to SWG.
Neverwinter is an amzing game for the uber rich or the super casual. What it does it does well. While I no longer play Neverwinter Iconsider it to have the best combat in the genre. One I wish was used more often instead of this quasi-combat crap that plagues games like Wildstar, ESO and GW2.
For the record I am super touched that you follow my posting patterns and know about what former posts I've made. E-Stalker alert LOL.
I only remember two of your posts, the general gist was:
1. Neverwinter will be the sleeper hit of the year.
2. I'm not playing Neverwinter anymore because the cash shops too much.
The 2nd one was kinda obvious with a little research, the first was laughable. So you see when you start saying something similar, in similar hyperbolic fashion, it's jars a memory.
Hey and if you don't want to get, 'stalked', (cute), don't get overexcited and make ludicrous predictions. Enjoying something is one thing making outlandish epoch defining statements is another..
Neverwinter is an amzing game for the uber rich or the super casual. What it does it does well. While I no longer play Neverwinter Iconsider it to have the best combat in the genre. One I wish was used more often instead of this quasi-combat crap that plagues games like Wildstar, ESO and GW2.
For the record I am super touched that you follow my posting patterns and know about what former posts I've made. E-Stalker alert LOL.
I only remember two of your posts, the general gist was:
1. Neverwinter will be the sleeper hit of the year.
2. I'm not playing Neverwinter anymore because the cash shops too much.
The 2nd one was kinda obvious with a little research, the first was laughable. So you see when you start saying something similar, in similar hyperbolic fashion, it's jars a memory.
Hey and if you don't want to get, 'stalked', (cute), don't get overexcited and make ludicrous predictions. Enjoying something is one thing making outlandish epoch defining statements is another..
Nothing wrong with predictions. I still think it would of been a sleeper hit if it wasn't produced by Perfect World. Secondly I never said the cash shop was too much. I spent over $600 in NWO but the reason I quit was my guild fell apart mostly because they refused to spend money and were stuck in mediocre enchantments.
None of what I said about it was hyperbolic. Nothing I made in this post is hyperbolic. It is how I feel. You may disagree with my statements and it's your right to do so and disagree, but these are my feelings and I have plenty of past MMO failures (FOR ME) to prove it.
I suppose I need to preface every statement I make from here on with (for me). The average person can see someone's statement and differentiate between opinion or not. And sure my entire argument is filled with opinions, but I sir, am still entitled to them.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
From a developer who can't seem to ever tell the truth? Because we are also getting H1Z1, the spiritual successor to SWG.
Smed isn't a dev on EQN team from what I've seen. His statement about H1Z1 was his own (he needs a PR person). You considering him a liar based on what he said is completely subjective, he didn't lie about anything.
As someone that liked the systems/concepts behind SWG (Sandbox things), I totally get where he was coming from. H1Z1 has a similar vibe if not more so to the freedom it presented (and all the issues that come with it). But I totally understand those expecting a Scifi mmorpg and being let down. He did apologize for misleading people, but I still believe he was coming from a good place.
Similar issue that I see people having with EQN in relation to EQ. Some relate EQ to forced grouping, tab targeting slow trinity combat, corpse runs, camping/grinding, etc, while others like myself see the races/classes/lore/world as what makes up EQ. Both are two sides of the same coin.
H1Z1 unfortunately only has half of the coin maybe.
Maybe down the line they can do EQN in space, you never know. Already a lot of Scifi stuff in Landmark and they have PS2 as well.
The large class selection is a huge plus for me but if they limit me to one weapon per class, then that cancels out that positive. Please let me play my class the way i want in the style i prefer.
In a perfect world, i'd like an expanded trinity to make use of all those fantastic classes. From the little info we have, i get a strong GW2 impression, which is not what i'm looking for as far as group PVE content goes.
I'm fine with the whole "everyone can be everything" aspect as long as the content dictates that i still need roles. If the encounters boil down to everyone swapping to a DPS build to burn bosses down faster to not have to deal with mechanics, like GW2 did, then that'll be a huge mistake.
Each class will have 2 weapons. Each class will also have a theme/role that can be customized to a point. But I think multi-classing is strongly encouraged and while they've said we can play 1 class forever and have a good time, I highly doubt it is comparable to someone that unlocks 40+ classes. Each class is just a fraction of the total experience.
To me it sounds like having a particular class-build-items-role will still be key. Will have a lot more flexibility, but switching to DPS probably won't be the smart start in every situation, especially if encounters aren't 1 vs 50 or what we've come to know as PVE. They've talked about having hundreds of mobs coming at players. Spamming DPS probably not going to work well.
Show up with XYZ classes, learn the pattern, repeat until geared, learn next pattern, repeat... When you can google/youtube what to do, not very hard.
Yes, the fact that it was so easy is why everyone in the game was able to beat those raids. People love to brag about how things are so easy for them and the only reason for failure is because "other people", riiiiight.
"I'm so good and everything is so easy for me I'm a genius, it's always other people that bring me down."
"If there were only a way to do large scale raids by myself, I could beat the encounter the first time out....I'm just that good, same with Pvp, that's why the best rewards should come from 1v1 so I don't have lose by being forced to play with others who simply aren't on my level"
Sorry, but nobody that actually played the content back then buys this load of BS that gets parroted by vanilla wow "pro's".
I'm not bragging or saying any of it was easy. But yes, other people are a big part of it. One of the hardest things about raiding is getting 20-40-70+ people to shut the heck up and follow directions. If you can get over that hurdle, you've taken away a lot of the pain. Then it comes down to bringing the right combo of classes (trinity outlines it nicely for us), being properly geared/buffed/prepped, again, just a matter of time. Then down to trial and error (even with guides). We wiped so many times in EQ/WoW, but eventually we got it down and everything goes into mindless farm mode. After a while, we wouldn't even be talking in Vent or whatever. Just going through the motions, watching TV, eating, whatever.
But I'd love to hear what was so "hard" about raiding/PVE in whatever game, instead of just putting words in my mouth. Even for those first to give it a go, it is just trial and error or bug exploiting. You throw bodies at the mob until fewer are needed to be flung. Is it time consuming, frustrating, and a challenge? Yes. But after the first couple "wins" it no longer is fun for me.
I'm really hoping EQN can keep that fresh kill feeling going. Will it last forever? Of course not, all systems are figured out, but if mobs are more dynamic and the AI is more "emergent" (whatever that means) maybe the 10 time I kill an Orc Warlord will be different enough from the 1st time that I'll still feel like I'm learning something and having to think.
I'm not claiming to be a pro or anything, but as someone that has been in that top 3% or whatever the stat is that does high end (HARDCORE) raiding, I really don't get where all chest pounding comes from. I'm actually the opposite of what you are suggesting. I don't think I'm special at all or have any magic PVE skills. I just think that the vast majority of players do not put in the time/effort needed to accomplish some of the more challenging encounters in games. Like I said, getting people to just stand still and shut up is a challenge many guilds/groups simply can't get past.
That old "More DOTS!" video/audio from WoW is spot on in what can happen. Just one person out of place and everything goes down. Screaming not needed of course.
For me, attempting and failing to kill a dragon 100 times isn't Hardcore. It is a way to learn and overcome an obstacle. It is a time sink with loot and pride at the end. Most give up after a couple tries if not on the first failure. Hence why we now have whatever the heck WoW is and other games that basically reward players for logging in. Failing isn't even an option anymore.
With all that said, yes raiding in EQ was harder the vanilla WoW. For many reasons. One of which is it didn't exist beforehand. There was no youtube or guides to buy at the local game store. You had to learn the hard way, even more so then games after. Toss in no easy form of mass communication, mobs that had millions of HPs that took forever and ever to kill, one slip up and everything would reset or some other over the top action that would leave everyone running for their corpse. Not to mention bugs and unintended results. It was new to the devs as well.
I'll admit I have a lot more experience with WoW's raiding then EQ's, but I still believe the basics are the same. Organize, put in the time/effort to prep and then learn what to do by actually doing it, failing, and doing it again. Again, I wouldn't consider it easy, but this concept of "hardcore" is silly to me. It isn't arm wrestling a bear. It is not sleeping, showering, eating, going outside, and sitting at a keyboard way too long (lots of hot pockets and mountain dew as well).
I wouldn't have gotten anywhere without a great group of people in PVE or PVP and hope EQN strongly encourages and rewards social game play.
This game has the biggest potential to offer everything an MMO should (like Vanilla WoW, TBC etc), with some next gen tech. People at Sony seem dead set on producing something of high quality.
I really hate when people use Vanilla WoW/TBC as a example of the ideal MMO. To me it seems like the WoW generations version of what us old EQ players call EQ nostalgia. Yea Vanilla/TBC was a whoooole lot better than what WoW currently is and maybe it is a good platform for a company to build off of now (wildstar anyone?).
When I think about Vanilla WoW or Everquest 1 I have to wonder whether or not either of those games would gather such a huge following right now. They were more niche and this genre has been dumbed down for so long that most current MMO players probably wouldn't be able to take EQ or Vanilla.
The main thing I see when I look at EQ1 is a game that was made with a specific audience. It didn't try to appeal to the massive audience that todays MMO's are targeting. When I look at EQ Next I see another MMO that is trying to "revolutionize the industry" in order to do that they pretty much have to be targeting the entire MMO market. So while I'm hopeful SOE will pull something out of their ass I'm still worried that they are just making another game that tries to be good for everyone but not amazing.
Also something most people have forgotten is this, SOE did not make Everquest 1.... Verant did and Sony acquired them and slowly but surely EQ turned to a pile of shit... All I'm sayin is SOE doesn't exactly have the greatest track record of making good MMO's so I'm pretty damn skeptical
While I agree that Vanilla WoW isn't the ideal mmo for everyone, especially now a days, I think the idea behind it is. Something that can appeal to many while providing a scale of challenge, does sound fairly ideal. Maybe not for the minority that want more of a particular aspect, but ideal in the sense that it sets a standard. WoW did a lot right/wrong from the start and of course most forum goers seem to agree that the swing to the wrong went and continues to go too far.
EQN has the potential to cater to a lot of players. It might not be the "best" at any one aspect, but even doing pretty good at many seems more rewarding in the long run for everyone except those that have to it it their way or no way. Throw in some new takes on the genre and some unseen tech, might have a winner.
Being F2P and having an open channel on development is also new and will shape the game differently.
EQ didn't try to appeal to a massive audience because it didn't exist. Even today, WoW is shadowed by MOBAs and other games/genres that appeal to a larger crowd that want specific things. There is no right/wrong way to go about it. Roll of the dice and hope something appeals to someone out in gamer land.
They were making EQ3 which would of essentially just been another fantasy mmorpg, snooze. They could of either tried to stick with that catering to a smaller crowd or go big and try to bring in the numbers. Hopefully it turns out for the better for everyone.
The whole Verant/SOE thing is kind of moot at this point. Really fine lines of who owned who or was in control of what when. While I believe as time went on EQ went away from the original and first few expansions, that is expected as the genre and players change as well. EQ still played today by many so while I might have left a long time ago and you call it shit, plenty still enjoy it and never left. Games aren't designed with individuals in mind, they are a business and looking at the larger picture. Sucks, that that's reality.
I am afraid that no AAA MMO will ever bring the revolution many RPG players want due to vicious circle of huge costs requiring attracting large number of customers in order to generate budgeted profit levels.
Games aiming at attracting masses are highly likely to be casual, shallow games granting instant gratification.
I think even Minecraft is much more interesting and fresh game comparing to the new AAA MMOs like Wildstar and TESO for example.
I think that EQN includes number of innovative features, but those few videos they published already indicate what type of game it will be.
Not trying to bash the game. I am sure it will have its fans. Just explaining why I probably wont be among them.
Also I agree with what the person above said with EQN being the last hope until it gets released.
I wholeheartedly do NOT agree, why you ask?
Blizzard never thought, or intended, for WoW to become as huge what it was. Between the game being alpha and going gold, there was a huge positive reaction from players.
As long as any developer gets certain things right, this will happen, again, and again, and again. The problem is that too many developers tried to copy paste that formula with a spin here, and a change there. WoW was and will always be better than any clone for numerous reasons, but the one reason everyone can agree on is its' production quality.
SOE have the ability to replicate that kind of production quality. At the same time they are breaking the mold with the type of combat, and other systems they are implementing. There is a high chance this game can/will be successful.
I imagine they are trying to attract all customers (like Blizzard with WoW), hardcore, softcore, casuals, noobs, you name it. We will see another World of Warcraft (whether you liked or hated it doesn't matter), and I cannot wait to sink my teeth in.
It's going to come down to world PVP for me. What made Asheron's call so great was its PVP server. If EQ Next has a open world pvp server done the right way, then I will be sold.
Even if EQN do it again, they are still only half way there. The game is a PVE game, not PVP. And its not a sandbox and it don't offer complete freedom and open world contents.
While I didn't start with the original Everquest I did know about it's existence while I was playing Asheron's Call the same year both released. While I didn't find anything I would consider "my thing" about original EQ, it did 10 times better in numbers then my beloved AC. It also ushered in the great MMO genre beginings, seeing as it was the first commercial success and relative household name.
I hope this same history will work with its newest MMO. As a huge proponent of Innovation and uniqueness in the Genre It is damn refreshing to see EQN go away from the EQ/WoW model that has stymied this genre for far to damn long.
Here's hoping the EQN Revolution ushers in a new game changing, genre defining MMO. Because sadly if it doesn't I can almost assuredly see me never looking into this genre again. For me this is the last hope and the final nail in the coffin. I have been without an MMO for far too long and I couldn't take another failed MMO.
Get it Right SOE!
I'm with you azzamasin. By the looks of it they ARE getting it right- just look at how they're handling landmark. Transparent development, open communication, community involvement, receptive to ideas, encouraging of creations, holding competitions... you name it!
Landmark, the supposed landscape for EQN, is already a big success. Imagine how good a game based off of that could be! And that's not even mentioning the genre-changing "holy grails". EQN really is the next big hope for the genre.
While I didn't start with the original Everquest I did know about it's existence while I was playing Asheron's Call the same year both released. While I didn't find anything I would consider "my thing" about original EQ, it did 10 times better in numbers then my beloved AC. It also ushered in the great MMO genre beginings, seeing as it was the first commercial success and relative household name.
I hope this same history will work with its newest MMO. As a huge proponent of Innovation and uniqueness in the Genre It is damn refreshing to see EQN go away from the EQ/WoW model that has stymied this genre for far to damn long.
Here's hoping the EQN Revolution ushers in a new game changing, genre defining MMO. Because sadly if it doesn't I can almost assuredly see me never looking into this genre again. For me this is the last hope and the final nail in the coffin. I have been without an MMO for far too long and I couldn't take another failed MMO.
Get it Right SOE!
I'm with you azzamasin. By the looks of it they ARE getting it right- just look at how they're handling landmark. Transparent development, open communication, community involvement, receptive to ideas, encouraging of creations, holding competitions... you name it!
Landmark, the supposed landscape for EQN, is already a big success. Imagine how good a game based off of that could be! And that's not even mentioning the genre-changing "holy grails". EQN really is the next big hope for the genre.
The next one based purely on monetary investment? Yes. The next one based purely on game innovation? No. There are quite a few games coming sooner than EQN which could be just as big and which feature as radical departures from the norm as it, do not let marketing and bigger budgets blind you to what may end up being better games.
While I didn't start with the original Everquest I did know about it's existence while I was playing Asheron's Call the same year both released. While I didn't find anything I would consider "my thing" about original EQ, it did 10 times better in numbers then my beloved AC. It also ushered in the great MMO genre beginings, seeing as it was the first commercial success and relative household name.
I hope this same history will work with its newest MMO. As a huge proponent of Innovation and uniqueness in the Genre It is damn refreshing to see EQN go away from the EQ/WoW model that has stymied this genre for far to damn long.
Here's hoping the EQN Revolution ushers in a new game changing, genre defining MMO. Because sadly if it doesn't I can almost assuredly see me never looking into this genre again. For me this is the last hope and the final nail in the coffin. I have been without an MMO for far too long and I couldn't take another failed MMO.
Get it Right SOE!
I'm with you azzamasin. By the looks of it they ARE getting it right- just look at how they're handling landmark. Transparent development, open communication, community involvement, receptive to ideas, encouraging of creations, holding competitions... you name it!
Landmark, the supposed landscape for EQN, is already a big success. Imagine how good a game based off of that could be! And that's not even mentioning the genre-changing "holy grails". EQN really is the next big hope for the genre.
The next one based purely on monetary investment? Yes. The next one based purely on game innovation? No. There are quite a few games coming sooner than EQN which could be just as big and which feature as radical departures from the norm as it, do not let marketing and bigger budgets blind you to what may end up being better games.
The next one based purely on monetary investment? Yes. The next one based purely on game innovation? No. There are quite a few games coming sooner than EQN which could be just as big and which feature as radical departures from the norm as it, do not let marketing and bigger budgets blind you to what may end up being better games.
Which ones? I pay pretty good attention to new games in development and can't really think of one that is looking to really break the mold like EQN wants to. Can you name some of them?
Comments
I really hate when people use Vanilla WoW/TBC as a example of the ideal MMO. To me it seems like the WoW generations version of what us old EQ players call EQ nostalgia. Yea Vanilla/TBC was a whoooole lot better than what WoW currently is and maybe it is a good platform for a company to build off of now (wildstar anyone?).
When I think about Vanilla WoW or Everquest 1 I have to wonder whether or not either of those games would gather such a huge following right now. They were more niche and this genre has been dumbed down for so long that most current MMO players probably wouldn't be able to take EQ or Vanilla.
The main thing I see when I look at EQ1 is a game that was made with a specific audience. It didn't try to appeal to the massive audience that todays MMO's are targeting. When I look at EQ Next I see another MMO that is trying to "revolutionize the industry" in order to do that they pretty much have to be targeting the entire MMO market. So while I'm hopeful SOE will pull something out of their ass I'm still worried that they are just making another game that tries to be good for everyone but not amazing.
Also something most people have forgotten is this, SOE did not make Everquest 1.... Verant did and Sony acquired them and slowly but surely EQ turned to a pile of shit... All I'm sayin is SOE doesn't exactly have the greatest track record of making good MMO's so I'm pretty damn skeptical
Really? Have you played the game yet?
This coupled with the presentation that they are promoting the no restrictions/everyone can do/be everything. So it's ESO/GW2 with some player created content to pacify people in between expansions. I think exploring the world will be fun and collecting the abilities will be interesting, I'm just not sure that will be enough after a month has gone by.
The large class selection is a huge plus for me but if they limit me to one weapon per class, then that cancels out that positive. Please let me play my class the way i want in the style i prefer.
In a perfect world, i'd like an expanded trinity to make use of all those fantastic classes. From the little info we have, i get a strong GW2 impression, which is not what i'm looking for as far as group PVE content goes.
I'm fine with the whole "everyone can be everything" aspect as long as the content dictates that i still need roles. If the encounters boil down to everyone swapping to a DPS build to burn bosses down faster to not have to deal with mechanics, like GW2 did, then that'll be a huge mistake.
Neverwinter is an amzing game for the uber rich or the super casual. What it does it does well. While I no longer play Neverwinter Iconsider it to have the best combat in the genre. One I wish was used more often instead of this quasi-combat crap that plagues games like Wildstar, ESO and GW2.
For the record I am super touched that you follow my posting patterns and know about what former posts I've made. E-Stalker alert LOL.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Ya, it kind of confused me when he brought up the word "hardcore" then put it in a statement talking about "Class roles". As if group-makeup and abilities denote if a game is "hardcore" or not lol.
I can understand people using hardcore when talking about how brutal the pvp rules are, or how painful death penalties are, or even how much time is required to fully build up a character... but this guy wasn't even talking about that kind of stuff.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
I'd have to agree, neverwinter's combat system is pretty solid and for the type of game they aimed to deliver, they did it really well. I'd say Tera did action combat pretty good as well though.
I disagree with you on GW2 however. They had a lot of interesting mechanics and the combat feels great.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
GW2's combat was good in how it was delivered but I'm not a fan of hybridization of combat techniques in my MMO's. I feel it would of been much better if it was pure tab target or pure action. As it were I used the Combat Mod for GW2 that used AutoHotkey to turn it into a pure reticule based combat system. In much the same way I'll be using the same mod for Wildstar.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
From a developer who can't seem to ever tell the truth? Because we are also getting H1Z1, the spiritual successor to SWG.
I only remember two of your posts, the general gist was:
1. Neverwinter will be the sleeper hit of the year.
2. I'm not playing Neverwinter anymore because the cash shops too much.
The 2nd one was kinda obvious with a little research, the first was laughable. So you see when you start saying something similar, in similar hyperbolic fashion, it's jars a memory.
Hey and if you don't want to get, 'stalked', (cute), don't get overexcited and make ludicrous predictions. Enjoying something is one thing making outlandish epoch defining statements is another..
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
Nothing wrong with predictions. I still think it would of been a sleeper hit if it wasn't produced by Perfect World. Secondly I never said the cash shop was too much. I spent over $600 in NWO but the reason I quit was my guild fell apart mostly because they refused to spend money and were stuck in mediocre enchantments.
None of what I said about it was hyperbolic. Nothing I made in this post is hyperbolic. It is how I feel. You may disagree with my statements and it's your right to do so and disagree, but these are my feelings and I have plenty of past MMO failures (FOR ME) to prove it.
I suppose I need to preface every statement I make from here on with (for me). The average person can see someone's statement and differentiate between opinion or not. And sure my entire argument is filled with opinions, but I sir, am still entitled to them.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Smed isn't a dev on EQN team from what I've seen. His statement about H1Z1 was his own (he needs a PR person). You considering him a liar based on what he said is completely subjective, he didn't lie about anything.
As someone that liked the systems/concepts behind SWG (Sandbox things), I totally get where he was coming from. H1Z1 has a similar vibe if not more so to the freedom it presented (and all the issues that come with it). But I totally understand those expecting a Scifi mmorpg and being let down. He did apologize for misleading people, but I still believe he was coming from a good place.
Similar issue that I see people having with EQN in relation to EQ. Some relate EQ to forced grouping, tab targeting slow trinity combat, corpse runs, camping/grinding, etc, while others like myself see the races/classes/lore/world as what makes up EQ. Both are two sides of the same coin.
H1Z1 unfortunately only has half of the coin maybe.
Maybe down the line they can do EQN in space, you never know. Already a lot of Scifi stuff in Landmark and they have PS2 as well.
Exactly. Also, before getting hyped SOE should show something solid. So far we have only dev speak...from SOE.
Each class will have 2 weapons. Each class will also have a theme/role that can be customized to a point. But I think multi-classing is strongly encouraged and while they've said we can play 1 class forever and have a good time, I highly doubt it is comparable to someone that unlocks 40+ classes. Each class is just a fraction of the total experience.
To me it sounds like having a particular class-build-items-role will still be key. Will have a lot more flexibility, but switching to DPS probably won't be the smart start in every situation, especially if encounters aren't 1 vs 50 or what we've come to know as PVE. They've talked about having hundreds of mobs coming at players. Spamming DPS probably not going to work well.
I'm not bragging or saying any of it was easy. But yes, other people are a big part of it. One of the hardest things about raiding is getting 20-40-70+ people to shut the heck up and follow directions. If you can get over that hurdle, you've taken away a lot of the pain. Then it comes down to bringing the right combo of classes (trinity outlines it nicely for us), being properly geared/buffed/prepped, again, just a matter of time. Then down to trial and error (even with guides). We wiped so many times in EQ/WoW, but eventually we got it down and everything goes into mindless farm mode. After a while, we wouldn't even be talking in Vent or whatever. Just going through the motions, watching TV, eating, whatever.
But I'd love to hear what was so "hard" about raiding/PVE in whatever game, instead of just putting words in my mouth. Even for those first to give it a go, it is just trial and error or bug exploiting. You throw bodies at the mob until fewer are needed to be flung. Is it time consuming, frustrating, and a challenge? Yes. But after the first couple "wins" it no longer is fun for me.
I'm really hoping EQN can keep that fresh kill feeling going. Will it last forever? Of course not, all systems are figured out, but if mobs are more dynamic and the AI is more "emergent" (whatever that means) maybe the 10 time I kill an Orc Warlord will be different enough from the 1st time that I'll still feel like I'm learning something and having to think.
I'm not claiming to be a pro or anything, but as someone that has been in that top 3% or whatever the stat is that does high end (HARDCORE) raiding, I really don't get where all chest pounding comes from. I'm actually the opposite of what you are suggesting. I don't think I'm special at all or have any magic PVE skills. I just think that the vast majority of players do not put in the time/effort needed to accomplish some of the more challenging encounters in games. Like I said, getting people to just stand still and shut up is a challenge many guilds/groups simply can't get past.
That old "More DOTS!" video/audio from WoW is spot on in what can happen. Just one person out of place and everything goes down. Screaming not needed of course.
For me, attempting and failing to kill a dragon 100 times isn't Hardcore. It is a way to learn and overcome an obstacle. It is a time sink with loot and pride at the end. Most give up after a couple tries if not on the first failure. Hence why we now have whatever the heck WoW is and other games that basically reward players for logging in. Failing isn't even an option anymore.
With all that said, yes raiding in EQ was harder the vanilla WoW. For many reasons. One of which is it didn't exist beforehand. There was no youtube or guides to buy at the local game store. You had to learn the hard way, even more so then games after. Toss in no easy form of mass communication, mobs that had millions of HPs that took forever and ever to kill, one slip up and everything would reset or some other over the top action that would leave everyone running for their corpse. Not to mention bugs and unintended results. It was new to the devs as well.
I'll admit I have a lot more experience with WoW's raiding then EQ's, but I still believe the basics are the same. Organize, put in the time/effort to prep and then learn what to do by actually doing it, failing, and doing it again. Again, I wouldn't consider it easy, but this concept of "hardcore" is silly to me. It isn't arm wrestling a bear. It is not sleeping, showering, eating, going outside, and sitting at a keyboard way too long (lots of hot pockets and mountain dew as well).
I wouldn't have gotten anywhere without a great group of people in PVE or PVP and hope EQN strongly encourages and rewards social game play.
While I agree that Vanilla WoW isn't the ideal mmo for everyone, especially now a days, I think the idea behind it is. Something that can appeal to many while providing a scale of challenge, does sound fairly ideal. Maybe not for the minority that want more of a particular aspect, but ideal in the sense that it sets a standard. WoW did a lot right/wrong from the start and of course most forum goers seem to agree that the swing to the wrong went and continues to go too far.
EQN has the potential to cater to a lot of players. It might not be the "best" at any one aspect, but even doing pretty good at many seems more rewarding in the long run for everyone except those that have to it it their way or no way. Throw in some new takes on the genre and some unseen tech, might have a winner.
Being F2P and having an open channel on development is also new and will shape the game differently.
EQ didn't try to appeal to a massive audience because it didn't exist. Even today, WoW is shadowed by MOBAs and other games/genres that appeal to a larger crowd that want specific things. There is no right/wrong way to go about it. Roll of the dice and hope something appeals to someone out in gamer land.
They were making EQ3 which would of essentially just been another fantasy mmorpg, snooze. They could of either tried to stick with that catering to a smaller crowd or go big and try to bring in the numbers. Hopefully it turns out for the better for everyone.
The whole Verant/SOE thing is kind of moot at this point. Really fine lines of who owned who or was in control of what when. While I believe as time went on EQ went away from the original and first few expansions, that is expected as the genre and players change as well. EQ still played today by many so while I might have left a long time ago and you call it shit, plenty still enjoy it and never left. Games aren't designed with individuals in mind, they are a business and looking at the larger picture. Sucks, that that's reality.
Fear not , I bet blizzard will come to the rescue .
I wholeheartedly do NOT agree, why you ask?
Blizzard never thought, or intended, for WoW to become as huge what it was. Between the game being alpha and going gold, there was a huge positive reaction from players.
As long as any developer gets certain things right, this will happen, again, and again, and again. The problem is that too many developers tried to copy paste that formula with a spin here, and a change there. WoW was and will always be better than any clone for numerous reasons, but the one reason everyone can agree on is its' production quality.
SOE have the ability to replicate that kind of production quality. At the same time they are breaking the mold with the type of combat, and other systems they are implementing. There is a high chance this game can/will be successful.
I imagine they are trying to attract all customers (like Blizzard with WoW), hardcore, softcore, casuals, noobs, you name it. We will see another World of Warcraft (whether you liked or hated it doesn't matter), and I cannot wait to sink my teeth in.
"The term vanialla can never be used again after world of warcraft's cataclysm."
Nancy Haste- Stay at home mother
I'm with you azzamasin. By the looks of it they ARE getting it right- just look at how they're handling landmark. Transparent development, open communication, community involvement, receptive to ideas, encouraging of creations, holding competitions... you name it!
Landmark, the supposed landscape for EQN, is already a big success. Imagine how good a game based off of that could be! And that's not even mentioning the genre-changing "holy grails". EQN really is the next big hope for the genre.
The next one based purely on monetary investment? Yes. The next one based purely on game innovation? No. There are quite a few games coming sooner than EQN which could be just as big and which feature as radical departures from the norm as it, do not let marketing and bigger budgets blind you to what may end up being better games.
Like what games?
Which ones? I pay pretty good attention to new games in development and can't really think of one that is looking to really break the mold like EQN wants to. Can you name some of them?