It has been said already. If you start your defense of an MMORPG with graphics and storyline then you have your problem right there.
Gameplay, world dynamics and backstory should be the main points on which an MMORPG is based. Graphics age as technology evolves. Storylines are static and become obsolete as the game ages. If the are not extended or replaced, the game feels static and empty.
Also the lack of "End Game" is exactly the indicator. You built a static world where the only content available is developer generated. The players can't do anything themselves.
I don't care if ESO is successful or not, it's just another game. I do care if it is a game that is talked about years after it was closed (SWG).
Agree 100% not only for ESO but for every mmo.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Boring and uninspired game... the moment i read about its features i knew 1 thing only , f2p model in a year top . This is M M O and so many years after those stuiped companies still bring u a single player experince which ofc cant compare to single player games , and standard boring endgame that brings nothing new to the table which u can find in any other mmo... i really wont be surprised if this company planned to make easy cash on some boring product first p2p when the hype in work and then f2p to milk it out ... and ppl rush in like sheeps to support such plans... oh well... can always keep hoping there are companies out there with some balls that willing to take a risk and make something new and maybe make a furtune out of it
I liked the game at first. The quests were well written as was the story. The graphics were lovely as well. Problem with the game is there is literally nothing to do but quest, quest, quest and quest somore !
I like exploring, I like crafting, I like trading (though only trade person to person as I am unguilded) I like the quests but am not doing them all linear as I mixed it up with all the other things I like doing in ESO
Crafting boiled down to breaking down weaps and armour then onto whack-a-mole crafting.
Crafting goes a little deeper then that, have you tried different armor sets as not only different styles but at different craft tables scattered around in Tamriel outside maincity's? Have you build up traits? I am not grinding craft, but did grind my foods/drinks due to far to much food/drink resources. All my other crafts gentily level up among my own character levels.
I couldn't produce anything different to any other crafter on the server..
You can because I have noticed not everyone goes deep into craft, I have seen plenty who just made white's, I am saving my legendary resources for now but often push out blue's
It became just a huge quest hub and not a world to exist and forge a path in.
Depends on your own playstyle to be honost!
With this in mind I have jumped into AA alpha and my god what a breath of fresh air. An old school feel with a mix of themepark and sandbox elements...
Looking forward to AA mainly because it's a sandbox, ESO is not and I will treat and compare it like that. Hope today's toxic community can handle a game like ArcheAge but regardless it does seem a game closer to what I want from a MMORPG. But definitly not going to ruin that experiance by jumping in AA right now.
Its a complete world where I can choose the activity I want to do any day, not have only quests waiting for me at every log-in.
Yup that seems more sandbox to me, ESO is not, perhaps people havn't thought of that yet seeing the type of complaints the game gets. Which doesn't mean it wouldn't be great if ESO was but the fact remains it isn't.
Needless to say, TESO sub cancelled, full patron on AA.
I'm happy for the folks that love TESO though.. It's great when you find a home and I think I have found mine.
Thanks but ESO is far from a MMORPG to call home to me as said I am more closer to sandbox, but am able to enjoy Themepark and for me ESO is a great themepark, if it wasn't I would be playing other themeparks as I did, ESO just is keeping me entertained allot more then the rest.
Edit**** C'mon forum dev's, its about time line breaks displayed properly !!! Its not good when I have to put 2 in so the post displays 1! Ironic that editing actually displays the post as I meant it to look.
Have fun in AA maybe one day I enter that world aswell, just need to wait how much is left after AA is released with today's toxic community (commonly speaking of course)
Probably all this speculation would end if Zenimax would come out with some statement on sales. They are not doing so and it is their right but it all makes the tongues wag more.
I don't think a game which such a strong IP can ever die unless the company just don't want to keep going with it. I do believe that this game will beat least B2P in a year... There's just not enough stuff to do to justify throwing 15 dollars at them every month.
"Dying or just carving a niche?" - The title alone indicates how bias the reviewer is, lets see if he can get the word dying in again...
"which is a direct tie to why people are asking if the game is dying." - The reviewer may be asking if the game is dying, those of us playing and there are many are not. But thanks for putting this thought into players heads.
"Is this why people say ESO is dying?" - There he goes again.
"What do you think, is ESO dying?" - And again.
Mr Getchell tells us he thinks ESO is a fantastic game, one with plenty subscribers, but for some reason he can't stop talking about it dying. He uses his own version of "I come to praise Caesar not to bury him", to some effect. Pretending to talk something up while saying it is on its way out is hardly new.
I know it wasn't the intention but this article and the comments reads like an eulogy for Elder Scrolls: Online. Even the raging or blatant fan-boyism is kept to a very low minimum, it's sort of a solemn farewell to a game that had so much potential but became an overwhelming disappointment to the majority.
One can hope that failures such as these will make developers think about putting the creation of games back in the hands of the creative and game design department rather than the marketing department.
I do however highly salute the fact that people voted with their vallets. With sub games the consumers really do have a way of communicating clearly with the developer.
Obviously I won't be providing any active subscription numbers but - lets pluck a figure out the the air and say assume it only has 200k.
Post-30 day retention is usually about 40% dropping to c. 20% around the 6 month mark. So that would suggest sales of c. 700k. And the author seems to be suggesting 200k as a low estimate.
We don't know of course and with the megaserver technology we won't know. People should still see "lots of players" and there will be no need for server mergers (a good thing).
But ... the usual suspect indicators have numbers so low the question they raise is was the game stillborn? The lack of PvP activity; no reports of overflow servers being needed; CS jobs cut early; very fast retail price drops - all suggest poor sales. But we don't know.
What I find telling however is that the game has no buzz. I type this the day after the article was posted. An article that leaps out of the front page with a title that calls out for people to post their response. Yes or no. Am I the 10,000th poster? Nah. The 1,000th? Nah. Not even 200.
So if TESO isn't dead or dying then mmorpg.com must be!
Zenimax are the ones that know. And there actions going forward will suggest how good / bad it has been. Launch on console with sub as planned - we can assume that the PC launch met expectations - however low or high they were. Change the business model and that will imply the PC launch didn't meet expectations.
...and those who rushed through the content to get to level cap and “End Game” essentially skipped what the same is designed on. ESO isn’t trying to be the next World of Warcraft, it’s trying to be itself, and for some people that’s not enough, but for the thousands of players who are still playing it, it’s enough.
That is all I am keeping from this article, the rest being blablabla
As usual folks that rushed to End Game are the ones complaining for lack of content. pathetic IMHO.
Originally posted by nbtscan Really it all comes down to how many people ZOS expected to play. If they were hoping for a million+ active subscribers, well, they're probably in bad shape right now. Most developers/publishers won't outright tell you what their expectations were though.
I agree with this. I believe that ZOS--full of visions of greatness and overconfident--set themselves up as a big company which intended to go big in how it works. Unfortunately, as many have pointed out, TESO suffers from many fundamental flaws (i.e. players are consuming it as a single-player game and leaving) and, because of this, is not retaining the bigger audience which ZOS expected it to have.
Is TESO dying? No. But I think that ZOS is going to get a rude wake-up call when the numbers settle down and they face financial losses which require some serious belt tightening. And, on top of this, they'll still have to fix TESO.
I think that TESO going "F2P" is an academic event at this point. The real question in my mind is this: How aggressive will ZOS's "F2P" scheme be in terms of nickle-and-diming? And will Zenimax Media somehow redistribute funds from Bethesda Game Studios and to ZOS in order to minimize losses?
Waiting for:Citadel of Sorcery. Along the way, The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P).
Keeping an eye on:www.play2crush.com (whatever is going on here).
This is what you get today with MMO's that do not focus on community. Community is what kept the old MMOs around with a strong population for years... more than the game itself did. When devs start figuring that out this genre may thrive again.
...and those who rushed through the content to get to level cap and “End Game” essentially skipped what the same is designed on. ESO isn’t trying to be the next World of Warcraft, it’s trying to be itself, and for some people that’s not enough, but for the thousands of players who are still playing it, it’s enough.
That is all I am keeping from this article, the rest being blablabla
As usual folks that rushed to End Game are the ones complaining for lack of content. pathetic IMHO.
I hope people remember why players rushed through the contents to get to level cap and "end game" because of the ******* promise about multiplayers gameplay at end game.
Why people rush through contents in massively multiplayer ? because they want to play multiplayer game (aka raid , PVP) with other who like them search for multiplayer games.
People who enjoy the story are one thing , but majority buy multiplayer game to play the ****** multiplayer part of it in first place.
Join PVP when you lack of gears and level (stats/skill/ects) , 90% you lost in the game.
And lost because you lacking on gears and stats don't "fun" at all.
Then you can't even join the ****** raid if you lack of the requirements.
Just stopped my subscription. Reached one character at lvl 30.... the story line is ok . I didnt rush through quests so i didnt cap my character fast as you can see. I just didnt feel like coming back to a game that seemed so single player.. Same sensation with SWTOR... which btw had a much better single player story. Decisions ACTUALLY mattered.
I would only come back if it went ftp...with a cash shop for fluff items. Already spend 80 euros with game and two months subscriptions for a small single player experience. What killed it for me is that ALL single player dungeons are EXACTLY the same which is UNACCEPTABLE for 2014 game...... the multi aspect is impossible to do dungeons unless you roll a tank or have a tank friend ..this is so WoW and too old..
For pvp...it took ages to get your first horse as gold is very difficult to gather at early lvls...and you cant pvp without a horse in cyrodil...and by the time I could go there...every one is in VR lvl and im a one shot deal....so no no....
All the PvP'ers complaining about the game is failing because of the "PvE grind. Yet all of the evidence points toward the game failing because of the PvP. Case in point, no one is quitting before they get to level 50 and that is all PvE. Where they are quitting is once they get to level 50 and the game turns to PvP. It then starts to reason that the people leaving are the PvE'rs who have finished the PvE portion and have no interest in PvP. Of course, once the PvP'ers get to 50 and see no one participating in PvP are going to find an issue when the PvP field is dead. But that is always the case, is it not? How many successful MMORPG PvP games can you name? Counts down before the PvP'ers mention their one and only crying mantra ... "Eve."
5 .... 4 ..... 3 .... 2 .... 1 ...
The game you are looking for requiring no PvE completion and where you can just jump in and start mindlessly shooting at people is that way - >>>>
... it's called an FPS.
Quit ruining the MMORPG genre with your constant "PvE grind" whines.
Just stopped my subscription. Reached one character at lvl 30.... the story line is ok . I didnt rush through quests so i didnt cap my character fast as you can see. I just didnt feel like coming back to a game that seemed so single player.. Same sensation with SWTOR... which btw had a much better single player story. Decisions ACTUALLY mattered.
I would only come back if it went ftp...with a cash shop for fluff items. Already spend 80 euros with game and two months subscriptions for a small single player experience. What killed it for me is that ALL single player dungeons are EXACTLY the same which is UNACCEPTABLE for 2014 game...... the multi aspect is impossible to do dungeons unless you roll a tank or have a tank friend ..this is so WoW and too old..
For pvp...it took ages to get your first horse as gold is very difficult to gather at early lvls...and you cant pvp without a horse in cyrodil...and by the time I could go there...every one is in VR lvl and im a one shot deal....so no no....
Pretty much word for word what I would say.
Tis back to Darkfall for me, the only MMO I truly enjoy these days.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
All the PvP'ers complaining about the game is failing because of the "PvE grind. Yet all of the evidence points toward the game failing because of the PvP. Case in point, no one is quitting before they get to level 50 and that is all PvE. Where they are quitting is once they get to level 50 and the game turns to PvP. It then starts to reason that the people leaving are the PvE'rs who have finished the PvE portion and have no interest in PvP. Of course, once the PvP'ers get to 50 and see no one participating in PvP are going to find an issue when the PvP field is dead. But that is always the case, is it not? How many successful MMORPG PvP games can you name? Counts down before the PvP'ers mention their one and only crying mantra ... "Eve."
5 .... 4 ..... 3 .... 2 .... 1 ...
WOW , did you forget it have 2 factions war ? or at less PVP battlefield
and WOW are same catalogue with ESO so it easier to compare the 2.
Originally posted by OminousDawn All the PvP'ers complaining about the game is failing because of the "PvE grind. Yet all of the evidence points toward the game failing because of the PvP. Case in point, no one is quitting before they get to level 50 and that is all PvE. Where they are quitting is once they get to level 50 and the game turns to PvP. It then starts to reason that the people leaving are the PvE'rs who have finished the PvE portion and have no interest in PvP. Of course, once the PvP'ers get to 50 and see no one participating in PvP are going to find an issue when the PvP field is dead. But that is always the case, is it not? How many successful MMORPG PvP games can you name? Counts down before the PvP'ers mention their one and only crying mantra ... "Eve." 5 .... 4 ..... 3 .... 2 .... 1 ...
Originally posted by d_20 This thread feels like a kind of funeral with each poster coming by and tossing a handful of dirt down onto ESO's coffin and saying a few final words about the deceased.
This is more of a "I went against my own judgement and played a game I knew I didn't like" wellness group....aka group therapy.
I only have one question. What is wrong with you WoW kids? ESO is awesome. Did you know that Zenimax gamemasters have gotten together and created their own guild ingame. What game does that.? This is the best MMO experience I have ever had long before WoW ever existed
I never expected it to be some blockbuster game. There was a thread before it launched asking how many subscribers would there be after free month, and I said 500k-1m. It's not for everyone, there is no game that is for everyone, and there never will be. I know people who have played MMOs as long as I have, and they have never played WoW, not even WoW is for everyone lol.
It's dying quicker than SWTOR. If they don't do something extreme soon, it's just going to be a very small niche game the same as Darkfall, where you have a small devoted fan base.
Comments
Agree 100% not only for ESO but for every mmo.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Have fun in AA maybe one day I enter that world aswell, just need to wait how much is left after AA is released with today's toxic community (commonly speaking of course)
As soon as i hear subscription its a no purchase from me
I wish they would do a server with a subscription and a server without a subscription but with a cash shop and then everyone can be happy
Its not dying, Zenimax is prepairing it for next release, consoles.
The PC market is important only for the alpha and beta testing.
We paid for an unfinished product.
Look at WS, it is possible to launch a bug free game with content.
I do agree that ESO is beautiful, and I like the combat but thats it.
Its not an TES game and it will never be.
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I don't think a game which such a strong IP can ever die unless the company just don't want to keep going with it. I do believe that this game will beat least B2P in a year... There's just not enough stuff to do to justify throwing 15 dollars at them every month.
"Dying or just carving a niche?" - The title alone indicates how bias the reviewer is, lets see if he can get the word dying in again...
"which is a direct tie to why people are asking if the game is dying." - The reviewer may be asking if the game is dying, those of us playing and there are many are not. But thanks for putting this thought into players heads.
"Is this why people say ESO is dying?" - There he goes again.
"What do you think, is ESO dying?" - And again.
Mr Getchell tells us he thinks ESO is a fantastic game, one with plenty subscribers, but for some reason he can't stop talking about it dying. He uses his own version of "I come to praise Caesar not to bury him", to some effect. Pretending to talk something up while saying it is on its way out is hardly new.
I know it wasn't the intention but this article and the comments reads like an eulogy for Elder Scrolls: Online. Even the raging or blatant fan-boyism is kept to a very low minimum, it's sort of a solemn farewell to a game that had so much potential but became an overwhelming disappointment to the majority.
One can hope that failures such as these will make developers think about putting the creation of games back in the hands of the creative and game design department rather than the marketing department.
I do however highly salute the fact that people voted with their vallets. With sub games the consumers really do have a way of communicating clearly with the developer.
Obviously I won't be providing any active subscription numbers but - lets pluck a figure out the the air and say assume it only has 200k.
Post-30 day retention is usually about 40% dropping to c. 20% around the 6 month mark. So that would suggest sales of c. 700k. And the author seems to be suggesting 200k as a low estimate.
We don't know of course and with the megaserver technology we won't know. People should still see "lots of players" and there will be no need for server mergers (a good thing).
But ... the usual suspect indicators have numbers so low the question they raise is was the game stillborn? The lack of PvP activity; no reports of overflow servers being needed; CS jobs cut early; very fast retail price drops - all suggest poor sales. But we don't know.
What I find telling however is that the game has no buzz. I type this the day after the article was posted. An article that leaps out of the front page with a title that calls out for people to post their response. Yes or no. Am I the 10,000th poster? Nah. The 1,000th? Nah. Not even 200.
So if TESO isn't dead or dying then mmorpg.com must be!
Zenimax are the ones that know. And there actions going forward will suggest how good / bad it has been. Launch on console with sub as planned - we can assume that the PC launch met expectations - however low or high they were. Change the business model and that will imply the PC launch didn't meet expectations.
Rarely for a new mmo TESO has a second chance.
...and those who rushed through the content to get to level cap and “End Game” essentially skipped what the same is designed on. ESO isn’t trying to be the next World of Warcraft, it’s trying to be itself, and for some people that’s not enough, but for the thousands of players who are still playing it, it’s enough.
That is all I am keeping from this article, the rest being blablabla
As usual folks that rushed to End Game are the ones complaining for lack of content. pathetic IMHO.
I agree with this. I believe that ZOS--full of visions of greatness and overconfident--set themselves up as a big company which intended to go big in how it works. Unfortunately, as many have pointed out, TESO suffers from many fundamental flaws (i.e. players are consuming it as a single-player game and leaving) and, because of this, is not retaining the bigger audience which ZOS expected it to have.
Is TESO dying? No. But I think that ZOS is going to get a rude wake-up call when the numbers settle down and they face financial losses which require some serious belt tightening. And, on top of this, they'll still have to fix TESO.
I think that TESO going "F2P" is an academic event at this point. The real question in my mind is this: How aggressive will ZOS's "F2P" scheme be in terms of nickle-and-diming? And will Zenimax Media somehow redistribute funds from Bethesda Game Studios and to ZOS in order to minimize losses?
Waiting for: Citadel of Sorcery. Along the way, The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P).
Keeping an eye on: www.play2crush.com (whatever is going on here).
I hope people remember why players rushed through the contents to get to level cap and "end game" because of the ******* promise about multiplayers gameplay at end game.
Why people rush through contents in massively multiplayer ? because they want to play multiplayer game (aka raid , PVP) with other who like them search for multiplayer games.
People who enjoy the story are one thing , but majority buy multiplayer game to play the ****** multiplayer part of it in first place.
Join PVP when you lack of gears and level (stats/skill/ects) , 90% you lost in the game.
And lost because you lacking on gears and stats don't "fun" at all.
Then you can't even join the ****** raid if you lack of the requirements.
seriously , i can't hold back anymore . Sorry !!
Just stopped my subscription. Reached one character at lvl 30.... the story line is ok . I didnt rush through quests so i didnt cap my character fast as you can see. I just didnt feel like coming back to a game that seemed so single player.. Same sensation with SWTOR... which btw had a much better single player story. Decisions ACTUALLY mattered.
I would only come back if it went ftp...with a cash shop for fluff items. Already spend 80 euros with game and two months subscriptions for a small single player experience. What killed it for me is that ALL single player dungeons are EXACTLY the same which is UNACCEPTABLE for 2014 game...... the multi aspect is impossible to do dungeons unless you roll a tank or have a tank friend ..this is so WoW and too old..
For pvp...it took ages to get your first horse as gold is very difficult to gather at early lvls...and you cant pvp without a horse in cyrodil...and by the time I could go there...every one is in VR lvl and im a one shot deal....so no no....
All the PvP'ers complaining about the game is failing because of the "PvE grind. Yet all of the evidence points toward the game failing because of the PvP. Case in point, no one is quitting before they get to level 50 and that is all PvE. Where they are quitting is once they get to level 50 and the game turns to PvP. It then starts to reason that the people leaving are the PvE'rs who have finished the PvE portion and have no interest in PvP. Of course, once the PvP'ers get to 50 and see no one participating in PvP are going to find an issue when the PvP field is dead. But that is always the case, is it not? How many successful MMORPG PvP games can you name? Counts down before the PvP'ers mention their one and only crying mantra ... "Eve."
5 .... 4 ..... 3 .... 2 .... 1 ...
The game you are looking for requiring no PvE completion and where you can just jump in and start mindlessly shooting at people is that way - >>>>
... it's called an FPS.
Quit ruining the MMORPG genre with your constant "PvE grind" whines.
Pretty much word for word what I would say.
Tis back to Darkfall for me, the only MMO I truly enjoy these days.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
WOW , did you forget it have 2 factions war ? or at less PVP battlefield
and WOW are same catalogue with ESO so it easier to compare the 2.
Excellent post.
Sadly, denying a reason is much easier.
Or like majority you live in high sec....
Narrow minds, narrow minds...
SWTOR Referral Link
Free Goodies for new or returning players.
See what it gets you Here
This is more of a "I went against my own judgement and played a game I knew I didn't like" wellness group....aka group therapy.
I only have one question. What is wrong with you WoW kids? ESO is awesome. Did you know that Zenimax gamemasters have gotten together and created their own guild ingame. What game does that.? This is the best MMO experience I have ever had long before WoW ever existed