Originally posted by Jodokai Originally posted by Minsc No. In order to be an MMO the game must be hosted on a central server and everyone must connect to that server. Battlefield or any other FPS besides Planetside does not fit that bill. They have a central server listing that your game connects to to find games, but once you connect to one of those you are connecting to another server in a different location. Being an MMO does not have arequirement that all players MUST have the ability to gather in one spot if they so choose. Besides that would likely make the server go supernova anyways. This is really irrelevant but, your not actually correct. In other FPS, it is actually run from a central server. The servers just happen to be run by people that play the game.
Yes, DDO fits the bill as a MMORPG. Forget instances and the total lack of anything to do, here is why DDO is a MMORPG:
Massively While I am not certain, the install will likely consist of several disks PLUS a patch. This is pretty customary for a MMORPG. Finally, so you create your account and actually log into the game. Very quickly you will likely mumble to yourselves, "Whoa, what a MASSIVE waste of time."
Multiplayer You must party to get anywhere in this game, so the multiplayer part is obvious. Of course, in the true tradition of "party-only" games, you will likely be sitting at a taven asking for groups for five hours a night, and actually playing and questing for about an hour. You will soon realize that you are paying $15 a month for a chat program. But the instanced dungeons are nice the first three times you visit them.
Online There is no argument here. This IS an online game. It says so right on the box. No, really. It says so all over the box. Look, right there it says so. Also, it says you must have an internet connection where the system specs are listed. I know it doesn't SEEM like an online game, but trust me, it is.
Role Playing Game An angry and confused consumer walks into a virtual tavern. He moves to the middle of the tavern, takes off all his clothes and begins to dance. Hey, dancing naked was THE thing to do in Guild Wars, so why not do it here. Whooopie!!!
Originally posted by Kelsonmac Yes, DDO fits the bill as a MMORPG. Forget instances and the total lack of anything to do, here is why DDO is a MMORPG: Massively While I am not certain, the install will likely consist of several disks PLUS a patch. This is pretty customary for a MMORPG. Finally, so you create your account and actually log into the game. Very quickly you will likely mumble to yourselves, "Whoa, what a MASSIVE waste of time." Multiplayer You must party to get anywhere in this game, so the multiplayer part is obvious. Of course, in the true tradition of "party-only" games, you will likely be sitting at a taven asking for groups for five hours a night, and actually playing and questing for about an hour. You will soon realize that you are paying $15 a month for a chat program. But the instanced dungeons are nice the first three times you visit them. Online There is no argument here. This IS an online game. It says so right on the box. No, really. It says so all over the box. Look, right there it says so. Also, it says you must have an internet connection where the system specs are listed. I know it doesn't SEEM like an online game, but trust me, it is. Role Playing Game An angry and confused consumer walks into a virtual tavern. He moves to the middle of the tavern, takes off all his clothes and begins to dance. Hey, dancing naked was THE thing to do in Guild Wars, so why not do it here. Whooopie!!!
Hehehe - don't agree with you at all, but that was really funny...
------------------------------- Here are my credentials (skip to the next dotted line if you don't care):
I'm a big MMO fan. I played all of them (except CoH).
One thing that I learned is that you cannot judge an MMO based on less than 8 hours of gameplay. There were many games that I looked forward to, yet was disapointed (FFXI, AC2, Horizons), and there were many that I payed no heed before trying out but nonetheless anjoyed greatly (WoW, AC).
I also enjoy all the other geners of games (fps, crpg, rts, fighting, puzzle, adventure ... and even sports games) and can easily adapt to new styles of gameplay.
I have never gotten that much into pnp other then a occasional game session, yet I am familiar with the DnD ruleset and a few of the settings.
I have played through the stress test and I played three characters: Wizard, Rogue, and Ranger. Each one to level 2 -------------------------------- This is a short list of things I noticed about the game (call it a simplified review), as comapred to existing games:
Cons: - there are many ways you can exploit the combat system (although i hear the circle strafe has been fixed) - the fights can get extremly hectic and often it's hard to keep track of what's going on due to interface problems - The graphics are a bit too static and some animations are terrible - It is possible to easily run through a dungeon since it does not scale to party size - you can't sit on chairs in the taverns - no ability to change body type, hieght, frame, etc. - lack of RP options with NPCs and quests ( still better than any other MMO) - not enaugh open areas to explore ( there are some jungle zones where you can face random encounters and get xp for each encounter, so all of you that complain that you can't roam the wilderness need to shut up for good) - mostly static dungeons - no end game content
Pros: - fighting system that is a good mix between action and tactics ( hack'n'slash with RP elements, similar to morrowind melee) - sneaking system that takes into account sound and visibility ( I especially like the way the game shows you that your footsteps are too loud and will attract attention) - action-adventure like movement system adds another dimension to dungeons - complex character creation and good facial customization ( not exactly SWG or EQ2 but then again (almost)nobody pays that much attention to your face in an MMO so as to notice how far apart are your eyebrows) - atmoshpheric graphics - very diferent styles of gample for each archetype - innovative experience system ( just like Deux Ex - one of the best games ever) - easy to use grouping system - scripted events in a MMOrpg - exciting dungeon adventures (when playing the first ... and second.. and maybe even a third time) - focus on the journey(gameplay) and not on the goal
Summery: DDO is not a classic MMO (not a EQ clone), it is more like a SP game with other people around. This game invoked the same feelings of immersion for me as did Baldur's Gate and NWN. It has little in common with pnp other than the general spirit of adventure and group dynamics. The gameplay is akin to adventure/action games. DDO has the potential of doing for MMOs what Rainbow Six did for FPS'.
I think what makes or breaks the game is the community. The game requires the players to respect the needs of others. I'm going to get the game once it's out and see how things go from there.
---------------------aside
instancing is not what killed guild wars, it was lack of servers, and lack of monthly fee (no GMs, no bans). When you mix chilies, chocolate, and chicken in one big pot you get something really nasty.
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never listen to the nay sayers since they always shout the loudest, always try things yourself
Turbine has used the name Dungeons and Dragons to hopefully carry over some new things they hope to start with MMorgpg's. Namely the all instances and clicking to attack. The entire game is listless and uninspired.
The art is bland, and seem to be all Variations of the color brown. Doesn't do much to be emersive, instances are repeatable and shallow. Top that all with no epic level content and forced grouping, I found DDO to be wanting in several areas.
To do this to what is considered by most to be the heaviest hitter in fantasy gaming today shows a distinct lack of vision from Turbine. Turbine has stated this is a niche game, I have one question for them,.. Why?
Dungeons and Dragons has always meant for most of us, go anywhere and do anything, no it's do this, and do that, and don't go very far when do..
Just the aspect of having it all happen in one city is amazingly limiting. I really don't think that instances alone or the "click fest" fighting by themselves are the game killer. I think that lack of fredom will end this game. It's almost like they made a fantasy City of Heros, with this title it was nothing short of a grand disaster. This will be the another game they shut down, sure the people that want to make this game work will hang on tightly, but sooner or later some other game will come around and take them away.
To say I have been completly disappointed in this title is an understatement. I wish Turbine the best, but I think maybe they need to think things through better, understand the title before they try to fill a market slot. It's obviouse they have no understanding of the DnD world nor most of it's players.
I am going to make this blunt, and those that disagree are welcome to.I'm not looking to force my opinion on anyone.What follows is the simple opinion of DDO from someone who has played almost every mmorpg since beta of EQ1.
1.DDO is not an mmorpg.It is a roleplaying game with multiplayer elements.It has a "lbby" like town where adventurers can meet up and form groups,pick up new quests, etc.
2. DDO Beta held my attention for all of about 2 weeks, and i had to force myself to play.While very polished, with few bugs.I found it to be extremely boring.Questing alone or with others was "wash,rinse and repeat".
3. DDO does do a god job representing the D&D classes as they ought to be, unfortunately this does little to add to the game.
4. Anyone expecting highend and/or detailed, colorful graphics, need look elsewhere.While DDO will no doubr opertate on older machines, even other graphicly simple games like WoW make DDO pale in comparison.
5. DDO will appeal to those who like their games almost fully instanced.It will also appeal ALOT more to the casual players than to the power gamers.The power gamers will blaze through it in under a month, grow bored and quit before they have to pay for their 2nd month.I can easily see why.
Seems to me Turbine failed to learn much from AC2.While DDO should launch very smoothly, the gloss of being new will wear off very fast for most mmorpg vets that decide to try it.
Anyone concerned about anything i said, ought to save their money, or at least wait a few months before deciding to spend any hard earned cash on DDO.
Originally posted by Hashman Become a beta tester and slag the game off months later, all for free, sign up here!Did anyone actually beta test or just played it going this sucks, that sucks? Who beta-testing gave real feedback, the idea is to make the game better. You guys wander why when people buy mmorpgs they scream it's still in beta. This rant is really directed at those who beta-test and had the privelege of doing so and not giving any feedback about parts they absolutely hated.
Oh, I gave feedback on what I disliked and liked. Unfortunately they changed nothing. The forums for the game are full of feedback and yet... it's not changed. I don't expect them to change based just on what I say but just read any forum from people testing the game and you see the exact SAME feedback.
Hmm I read all the posts and figured I'd drop my review of the time I spent in stress test here. I'm not sure why so many didn't like the game, personaly Id be curious to know how many of the nay sayers actualy plaed the pnp game. All that aside here is my 'review' reposted for your enjoyment.
After more than 60 hours of play last week, here's what I have to say:
I ended the week with a level 5 Rank 1 Dwarven Cleric and here is what I thought of my experiance:
Bottom line: I really enjoyed the game, and plan to pick it up on release. (I may even pre order, something I hardly ever do, but an early entry to the game? hard to pass that up for sure!)
the Graphics are great.
The install It went great, with one minor glitch on getting the update, it was solved by either doing the .net update, or disabling my Logitech Set point mouse program for the update, then turning it back on before logging into the server.
Who will really like the game:I really think this game will apeal to anyone that liked the PnP game, AND likes computer MMO games. (note that I said AND not or, I think the target audiance for the game may be a bit narrow.)
Combat Mechanics: I was happily supprised. I say surprised, becuase when I heard that the combat was more action and less 'turn based' I was sure it would be a disastor. Instead I found that I really liked the combat of the game. It could get rather hectic, but also, if you took your time and developed some skill at it, you really could get the rythem of blocking and attacking, then spell casting etc. anyway, bottom line, I liked it.
Quest System: I really liked puzzles, each dungeon wasn't just a place to 'grind'. I liked that the experiance was gained from completing the quest, not from mindlessly slaying monsters. sometimes getting away from a group of baddies was the objective. this reward method also allowd for a greater diversity in completing missions.
The team dynamic: I'm torn on this, it really was great working with a team and I actualy came away from my weeks play session with some very good friends that I'm sure I will play many a game with over the next several years, and that is awesome in and of itself. (and a major objective of how to keep people paying to play your game I suppose.)
That being said, what if I want to solo? If I just want to jump in and play a bit, no worries, no people, just me and the pixels? It seemed difficult, at level 2.. but by level 3, I was able to go into old level 2 dungeons, and do them solo... so maybe there is a solo game there... I do hope that there is. perhaps even some content designed around solo adventures will make it in sometime.
Groups / Grouping: another thing though, when trying to flesh out the group, I noticed that many of the tools for forming groups didn't seem to be working... mostly the searches, and such. It looks like some thought has been put into how to 'connect' players with each other, but unfortunatly they were not available in 'full streangth' in the stress test. Since the game is so very group oriented, those tools are an absolute requirement when this Game is released. (as well as somehow encouraging the community to actualy use them --settting themselfs to LFG etc. should be well documented, and explained in in game tutorials. Bottom line though, I had a wonderfull time Grouping and made some great friends.
Pet Peeves: "/tell" -- Every time I had to type that out my agro twards developers increased greatly... Please Please Please add an alias so that I can type /T (seriously, what the heck on that one! /t please?)
/invite - again, how was this missed? it really needs to be in the game.
Targeting: as a cleric, I really need to know who I have in my sights. I really had to pay attention to make sure that the name I had was the off white color instead of the light yellow color. It's hard to count how many times I miss healed myself instead of the target PC due to the fact that I hit their hot key, while they were already targeted (thus un-targeting them,) leaving no target, then hitting my heal spell hot key, which would hit me with a heal. (very nice for keeping me alive, but on a whole, quite a waste of mana.) All could be avoided by some how indicating my target more clearly.
AI: Overall the AI was great! however... if we got in a really tight spot, one way that we could get over the hard to master hurddle was to try to get a mob 'caught' on a corner of the terain so that it would be 'trapped'... I would pretend that we were using 'tactics' but the truth is, that at some point, as we would pelt a group of kobolds that just couldn't get out of a tunnle with arrows, or watch a CR 11 Paladin get stuck on a ladder by a pool while we (all at level 4) stood on the other side and slowly whittled him down till he died, ya had to feel just the litlte bit guilty at it... so it would be nice if I couldn't do that sort of thing I guess... (sort of like addmiting that getting diciplined by parents is a good thing.. it's hard to do, but it's also true.)
Conclusion: I really liked this game. the innovations were unique, the world was beutiful, I really got into careing for the development of my character. I also started to really develop a scence of community after only a few short days. The puzzles were just down right cool. The DM text emotes were great. The rogue emplementation / utilization was the best I have ever seen in an MMORPG (and I didn't even play as a rogue.) Basicly, it's a game that I very much want to play more of.
Originally posted by burrek - not enaugh open areas to explore ( there are some jungle zones where you can face random encounters and get xp for each encounter, so all of you that complain that you can't roam the wilderness need to shut up for good)
Actually it would seem you need to do more than just visit an area once and claim you know all there is to know about it. The areas you are talking about are as static as the dungeons, and also very small comparatively. The "random encounters" that you claim to exist are not random at all, you get the exact same encounters everytime you go to the places and at the exact same spots.
So I would suggest before being so overtly crude and insulting to others and claiming what they say are false, that you make sure what you are claiming to be true actually is. I was in the DDO beta since the frist drawing of participants, and so far I've not seen anything mentioned in any of these posts as being blown out of proportion..other than the claim I've commented on above.
*IF* DDO does survive the market it will be categorized as a niche-game, which in reality it is. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all either, but it's obviously not designed to attract the bulk of the MMO market to date (which again isn't necessarily a bad thing either).
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Originally posted by burrek - not enaugh open areas to explore ( there are some jungle zones where you can face random encounters and get xp for each encounter, so all of you that complain that you can't roam the wilderness need to shut up for good)
Actually it would seem you need to do more than just visit an area once and claim you know all there is to know about it. The areas you are talking about are as static as the dungeons, and also very small comparatively. The "random encounters" that you claim to exist are not random at all, you get the exact same encounters everytime you go to the places and at the exact same spots.
So I would suggest before being so overtly crude and insulting to others and claiming what they say are false, that you make sure what you are claiming to be true actually is. I was in the DDO beta since the frist drawing of participants, and so far I've not seen anything mentioned in any of these posts as being blown out of proportion..other than the claim I've commented on above.
*IF* DDO does survive the market it will be categorized as a niche-game, which in reality it is. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all either, but it's obviously not designed to attract the bulk of the MMO market to date (which again isn't necessarily a bad thing either).
I'm sorry if you felt insulted, yet it is true that you can go into an area to grind and "explore". This is no different than the old crop of MMOs where you'd sit at a spawn point and wait for the mob or run around a 5x5 "forest". Not really innovative BUT it is there for those who desire such things.
I used "random encounters" because that is the standard name for such an ecnounter, even though these are not really random. Think you for clarifying that point. ( I do admit I went into those isntances briefly and and did not hang out for too long... I hate grinding)
And it is not false that you can just go and grind monsters in a wilderness, because you can, so I have to disagree with you on that.
I've been playing DDO for several months now and love this game. I think it has some of the most addictive gameplay. the combat system rocks and really shines when you learn to stop clicking and learn to block / tumble (as a fighter of course). the group dynamic work great. it really pays off to have a diverse group. many features people camplain about are trivial. (not all, some are bent on hating it because it is instanced. personally I have no probelm with this.) but the fact that things like /invite these are all things that are easily added as the game progresses in beta and once its gone live. /invite is implemeted now so you dont have to search in the social window forthe player to invite.
for those that complain its not dungeons and dragons. I dont see the argument. it has all the elements of D&D. I wish i had my old books where Gygax said himself "the rules in this book are just that rules and some rules are meant to be broken the key element is that your adventures should be fun" and I happen to think this game is great fun. of course this is just the opinion of one beta tester.
It's a sad day for Dungeons and Dragons. I enjoyed a laugh paralleling this to the first DND movie.
(Yes I play and enjoy DND PNP and have since late 1st ed. as well as I have been playing MMOs since, well, MUDs and I still think this game is atrocious.)
Hey, big fan of PnP D&D, havn't played DDO yet. I only wanted to correct one error: When you mix chicken, chilies and chocolate in one big pot, you get mole, which is DELICIOUS!
instancing is not what killed guild wars, it was lack of servers, and lack of monthly fee (no GMs, no bans). When you mix chilies, chocolate, and chicken in one big pot you get something really nasty.
I know I'll get flamed but then again most of you who flame me dont even know what the Original D&D was like so shh.
IMO this game will lay the foundation on which the future of MMORPG"S are based. The greatest concepts of these are: Active Combat, Instances that work, Required grouping means you will always find a group, Intelligent choices early on make you all the better later so no cookie cutter classes.
Now to shoot down some bad things...
Those of you who are whining about instancing, log off MMORPG and log into WOW and hush. Guild Wars uses instances and its a huge hit. Instancing makes the game more balanced, too many times in WOW I would be on my Hoarde character doing Blackfathom and some level 60 would come cruising through and kill everything so I had to wait on a respawn.
Only thing to do is quest...So the last time you played P&P D&D you said, "I wanna leave the city and go kill some bears and wolves for a few hours and get some xp..." No you said "Im gonna goto the tavern have a drink while everyone buys their gear and then we will head out" Which is exactly what happens in the game. I mean give these guys time to add more content.
No storyline...well it wouldnt be very fun to play the beta and know the storyline would it?
All the quest look alike...in sewers and such...Well try getting beyond say 4th level and then other quest. Dont be surprised if when the game goes live there are alot more quest.
Last but not least, my favorite complaint to hear, No PVP...Where to start. The last time I played D&D and attacked another player in my party the DM took a level from me. PVP is a useless waste of time,resources and effort no matter how good you get someone will always have enough money to get better equipment and beat you. In my epxeriance PVP is just one group attacking one person and then it reverses. So do us all a favor if you want PVP play a different game, Like WOW, or DAOC, or Conquer its free and you can PK people to ur hearts content.
All in all I have only 3 complaints:
1) The havnt added crafting yet but they will...
2)They havnt announced plans for ongoing added content
3)Gnomes, Half Orcs, Druids, and Monk's did not make the cut and they should but Id like to see expansions for them.
Now you may flame away because I wont read any of your replies anyway I'll be playing my Cleric in the Beta happy gaming to you...
I know I'll get flamed but then again most of you who flame me dont even know what the Original D&D was like so shh.
IMO this game will lay the foundation on which the future of MMORPG"S are based. The greatest concepts of these are: Active Combat, Instances that work, Required grouping means you will always find a group, Intelligent choices early on make you all the better later so no cookie cutter classes.
Since you won't be reading this I will talk to those that will...
IMO, you will not see many new MMO with this type of combat...
I wonder what he means by instances that work? How do they work as opposed to not working?
And the required grouping meaning you will always find a group... What a laugh. Like saying "with no air to breath, you will suffocate" Not very much fun, but true.
There will always be cookie-cutter classes... Always...
Now to shoot down some bad things...
Those of you who are whining about instancing, log off MMORPG and log into WOW and hush. Guild Wars uses instances and its a huge hit. Instancing makes the game more balanced, too many times in WOW I would be on my Hoarde character doing Blackfathom and some level 60 would come cruising through and kill everything so I had to wait on a respawn.
GW a huge hit? That's a laugh. A hit, maybe, but huge hit?
What in the world is he doing soloing WoW? If he had a group he probably would not have that problem...
Only thing to do is quest...So the last time you played P&P D&D you said, "I wanna leave the city and go kill some bears and wolves for a few hours and get some xp..." No you said "Im gonna goto the tavern have a drink while everyone buys their gear and then we will head out" Which is exactly what happens in the game. I mean give these guys time to add more content.
The last time I played the PnP DnD, there were a lot of things to do beside questing.
The big difference between the PnP game and this as far as this is concerned... When I go to a tavern to wait for my friends, I can have a drink and talk with NPCs, get something to eat, maybe even buy supplies that I can use on my next quest.
No storyline...well it wouldnt be very fun to play the beta and know the storyline would it?
I, for one, would love a story line in the Beta.
All the quest look alike...in sewers and such...Well try getting beyond say 4th level and then other quest. Dont be surprised if when the game goes live there are alot more quest.
Last but not least, my favorite complaint to hear, No PVP...Where to start. The last time I played D&D and attacked another player in my party the DM took a level from me. PVP is a useless waste of time,resources and effort no matter how good you get someone will always have enough money to get better equipment and beat you. In my epxeriance PVP is just one group attacking one person and then it reverses. So do us all a favor if you want PVP play a different game, Like WOW, or DAOC, or Conquer its free and you can PK people to ur hearts content.
I have to agree here. No PvP is great...
All in all I have only 3 complaints:
1) The havnt added crafting yet but they will...
Maybe...
2)They havnt announced plans for ongoing added content
I wonder if they will do "ongoing" content?
3)Gnomes, Half Orcs, Druids, and Monk's did not make the cut and they should but Id like to see expansions for them.
What about Half Elves? What about sub-classes?
Now you may flame away because I wont read any of your replies anyway I'll be playing my Cleric in the Beta happy gaming to you...
I am glad you won't be reading this reply... Otherwise you might have to come up with answers. And then you would have to think.
I'd like to point out that lots of functionality of even old MMOs are just simply not in this game. It's like the people who created it went down into a little black hole and designed the interface and tell system. I'm not gonna point out all the flaws, but if you've played, you'll know exactly what I mean. For example, EQ has something good, like reply on the 'r' key, so DAOC comes out with that intact. They have something good so EQ adds it. Then some other game comes out and takes convienences from those two games and for a good reason! It's like whoever made this never played any of these games and went "hey, being able to hit 'R' to reply is a really damn good feature."
Last but not least, my favorite complaint to hear, No PVP...Where to start. The last time I played D&D and attacked another player in my party the DM took a level from me. PVP is a useless waste of time,resources and effort no matter how good you get someone will always have enough money to get better equipment and beat you. In my epxeriance PVP is just one group attacking one person and then it reverses. So do us all a favor if you want PVP play a different game, Like WOW, or DAOC, or Conquer its free and you can PK people to ur hearts content.
Ok...this is good...then answer me this. Why do alignments exist in the game? Did you attack as a Lawful Good, Neutral Good...even Chaotic Good...well, you deserved that lost level. Why have the alignments if you cannot Chaotic Neutral whoever the hell you pleased. Of course this character would be hunted...a post could be made that this man is wanted at this cost (say each kill equals an amount of gold ...etc.)..Bounty hunting...how novel (it is done in Silkroad... and I dont gotta pay them $15 a month)
So, by not having the PvP...they actually strip a major PnP element from DnD.... If a player cannot PvP...PK...then get rid of the alignment system... Oh, wait...a major feature of DnD...hhmmmm
This game gets less entertaining as I read these posts. (PS: Yes...played stress, played preview...hey gotta grab me quick if you want my money, and these did not do it) Payed $50 for GW...never looked back, and then bought my wife an account who got hooked. Play silkroad Online for my grinding...payed NADA...never looked back...Oh and now wife wants to play, as it is "FUN and BEAUTIFUL"...she says. My days of Pen and paper are lost from this game...I felt no DnD love or nostalgia (except for the tavern..the worst and laggiest part of the game) Saving my cash, and speaking to the choir...SAVE YOURS TOO
This game gets less entertaining as I read these posts. (PS: Yes...played stress, played preview...hey gotta grab me quick if you want my money, and these did not do it) Payed $50 for GW...never looked back, and then bought my wife an account who got hooked. Play silkroad Online for my grinding...payed NADA...never looked back...Oh and now wife wants to play, as it is "FUN and BEAUTIFUL"...she says. My days of Pen and paper are lost from this game...I felt no DnD love or nostalgia (except for the tavern..the worst and laggiest part of the game) Saving my cash, and speaking to the choir...SAVE YOURS TOO
I disagree I think DDO is a great game. with the grapics maxed out it looks awsome. it has very addictive game play. the combat rocks. deffinately go out and try this game. I have to agree it's not going to be for everybody but what game is.
Don't let anyone make up your mind for you if you want more info on the game go to www.ddo.com read the forums there is a lot of good info there. Don't trust what everyone on there says either. if you want facts straight from the developers themselves read this: http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7728
Comments
Exactly.
-W.
Yes, DDO fits the bill as a MMORPG. Forget instances and the total lack of anything to do, here is why DDO is a MMORPG:
Massively While I am not certain, the install will likely consist of several disks PLUS a patch. This is pretty customary for a MMORPG. Finally, so you create your account and actually log into the game. Very quickly you will likely mumble to yourselves, "Whoa, what a MASSIVE waste of time."
Multiplayer You must party to get anywhere in this game, so the multiplayer part is obvious. Of course, in the true tradition of "party-only" games, you will likely be sitting at a taven asking for groups for five hours a night, and actually playing and questing for about an hour. You will soon realize that you are paying $15 a month for a chat program. But the instanced dungeons are nice the first three times you visit them.
Online There is no argument here. This IS an online game. It says so right on the box. No, really. It says so all over the box. Look, right there it says so. Also, it says you must have an internet connection where the system specs are listed. I know it doesn't SEEM like an online game, but trust me, it is.
Role Playing Game An angry and confused consumer walks into a virtual tavern. He moves to the middle of the tavern, takes off all his clothes and begins to dance. Hey, dancing naked was THE thing to do in Guild Wars, so why not do it here. Whooopie!!!
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
Hehehe - don't agree with you at all, but that was really funny...
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Here are my credentials (skip to the next dotted line if you don't care):
I'm a big MMO fan. I played all of them (except CoH).
One thing that I learned is that you cannot judge an MMO based on less than 8 hours of gameplay. There were many games that I looked forward to, yet was disapointed (FFXI, AC2, Horizons), and there were many that I payed no heed before trying out but nonetheless anjoyed greatly (WoW, AC).
I also enjoy all the other geners of games (fps, crpg, rts, fighting, puzzle, adventure ... and even sports games) and can easily adapt to new styles of gameplay.
I have never gotten that much into pnp other then a occasional game session, yet I am familiar with the DnD ruleset and a few of the settings.
I have played through the stress test and I played three characters: Wizard, Rogue, and Ranger. Each one to level 2
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This is a short list of things I noticed about the game (call it a simplified review), as comapred to existing games:
Cons:
- there are many ways you can exploit the combat system (although i hear the circle strafe has been fixed)
- the fights can get extremly hectic and often it's hard to keep track of what's going on due to interface problems
- The graphics are a bit too static and some animations are terrible
- It is possible to easily run through a dungeon since it does not scale to party size
- you can't sit on chairs in the taverns
- no ability to change body type, hieght, frame, etc.
- lack of RP options with NPCs and quests ( still better than any other MMO)
- not enaugh open areas to explore ( there are some jungle zones where you can face random encounters and get xp for each encounter, so all of you that complain that you can't roam the wilderness need to shut up for good)
- mostly static dungeons
- no end game content
Pros:
- fighting system that is a good mix between action and tactics ( hack'n'slash with RP elements, similar to morrowind melee)
- sneaking system that takes into account sound and visibility ( I especially like the way the game shows you that your footsteps are too loud and will attract attention)
- action-adventure like movement system adds another dimension to dungeons
- complex character creation and good facial customization ( not exactly SWG or EQ2 but then again (almost)nobody pays that much attention to your face in an MMO so as to notice how far apart are your eyebrows)
- atmoshpheric graphics
- very diferent styles of gample for each archetype
- innovative experience system ( just like Deux Ex - one of the best games ever)
- easy to use grouping system
- scripted events in a MMOrpg
- exciting dungeon adventures (when playing the first ... and second.. and maybe even a third time)
- focus on the journey(gameplay) and not on the goal
Summery:
DDO is not a classic MMO (not a EQ clone), it is more like a SP game with other people around.
This game invoked the same feelings of immersion for me as did Baldur's Gate and NWN.
It has little in common with pnp other than the general spirit of adventure and group dynamics.
The gameplay is akin to adventure/action games.
DDO has the potential of doing for MMOs what Rainbow Six did for FPS'.
I think what makes or breaks the game is the community. The game requires the players to respect the needs of others. I'm going to get the game once it's out and see how things go from there.
---------------------aside
instancing is not what killed guild wars, it was lack of servers, and lack of monthly fee (no GMs, no bans). When you mix chilies, chocolate, and chicken in one big pot you get something really nasty.
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never listen to the nay sayers since they always shout the loudest, always try things yourself
Turbine has used the name Dungeons and Dragons to hopefully carry over some new things they hope to start with MMorgpg's. Namely the all instances and clicking to attack. The entire game is listless and uninspired.
The art is bland, and seem to be all Variations of the color brown. Doesn't do much to be emersive, instances are repeatable and shallow. Top that all with no epic level content and forced grouping, I found DDO to be wanting in several areas.
To do this to what is considered by most to be the heaviest hitter in fantasy gaming today shows a distinct lack of vision from Turbine. Turbine has stated this is a niche game, I have one question for them,.. Why?
Dungeons and Dragons has always meant for most of us, go anywhere and do anything, no it's do this, and do that, and don't go very far when do..
Just the aspect of having it all happen in one city is amazingly limiting. I really don't think that instances alone or the "click fest" fighting by themselves are the game killer. I think that lack of fredom will end this game. It's almost like they made a fantasy City of Heros, with this title it was nothing short of a grand disaster. This will be the another game they shut down, sure the people that want to make this game work will hang on tightly, but sooner or later some other game will come around and take them away.
To say I have been completly disappointed in this title is an understatement. I wish Turbine the best, but I think maybe they need to think things through better, understand the title before they try to fill a market slot. It's obviouse they have no understanding of the DnD world nor most of it's players.
I am going to make this blunt, and those that disagree are welcome to.I'm not looking to force my opinion on anyone.What follows is the simple opinion of DDO from someone who has played almost every mmorpg since beta of EQ1.
1.DDO is not an mmorpg.It is a roleplaying game with multiplayer elements.It has a "lbby" like town where adventurers can meet up and form groups,pick up new quests, etc.
2. DDO Beta held my attention for all of about 2 weeks, and i had to force myself to play.While very polished, with few bugs.I found it to be extremely boring.Questing alone or with others was "wash,rinse and repeat".
3. DDO does do a god job representing the D&D classes as they ought to be, unfortunately this does little to add to the game.
4. Anyone expecting highend and/or detailed, colorful graphics, need look elsewhere.While DDO will no doubr opertate on older machines, even other graphicly simple games like WoW make DDO pale in comparison.
5. DDO will appeal to those who like their games almost fully instanced.It will also appeal ALOT more to the casual players than to the power gamers.The power gamers will blaze through it in under a month, grow bored and quit before they have to pay for their 2nd month.I can easily see why.
Seems to me Turbine failed to learn much from AC2.While DDO should launch very smoothly, the gloss of being new will wear off very fast for most mmorpg vets that decide to try it.
Anyone concerned about anything i said, ought to save their money, or at least wait a few months before deciding to spend any hard earned cash on DDO.
Oh, I gave feedback on what I disliked and liked. Unfortunately they changed nothing. The forums for the game are full of feedback and yet... it's not changed. I don't expect them to change based just on what I say but just read any forum from people testing the game and you see the exact SAME feedback.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Hmm I read all the posts and figured I'd drop my review of the time I spent in stress test here. I'm not sure why so many didn't like the game, personaly Id be curious to know how many of the nay sayers actualy plaed the pnp game. All that aside here is my 'review' reposted for your enjoyment.
After more than 60 hours of play last week, here's what I have to say:
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I ended the week with a level 5 Rank 1 Dwarven Cleric and here is what I thought of my experiance:
Bottom line:
I really enjoyed the game, and plan to pick it up on release. (I may even pre order, something I hardly ever do, but an early entry to the game? hard to pass that up for sure!)
the Graphics are great.
The install
It went great, with one minor glitch on getting the update, it was solved by either doing the .net update, or disabling my Logitech Set point mouse program for the update, then turning it back on before logging into the server.
Who will really like the game:I really think this game will apeal to anyone that liked the PnP game, AND likes computer MMO games. (note that I said AND not or, I think the target audiance for the game may be a bit narrow.)
Combat Mechanics:
I was happily supprised. I say surprised, becuase when I heard that the combat was more action and less 'turn based' I was sure it would be a disastor. Instead I found that I really liked the combat of the game. It could get rather hectic, but also, if you took your time and developed some skill at it, you really could get the rythem of blocking and attacking, then spell casting etc. anyway, bottom line, I liked it.
Quest System:
I really liked puzzles, each dungeon wasn't just a place to 'grind'. I liked that the experiance was gained from completing the quest, not from mindlessly slaying monsters. sometimes getting away from a group of baddies was the objective. this reward method also allowd for a greater diversity in completing missions.
The team dynamic:
I'm torn on this, it really was great working with a team and I actualy came away from my weeks play session with some very good friends that I'm sure I will play many a game with over the next several years, and that is awesome in and of itself. (and a major objective of how to keep people paying to play your game I suppose.)
That being said, what if I want to solo? If I just want to jump in and play a bit, no worries, no people, just me and the pixels? It seemed difficult, at level 2.. but by level 3, I was able to go into old level 2 dungeons, and do them solo... so maybe there is a solo game there... I do hope that there is. perhaps even some content designed around solo adventures will make it in sometime.
Groups / Grouping:
another thing though, when trying to flesh out the group, I noticed that many of the tools for forming groups didn't seem to be working... mostly the searches, and such. It looks like some thought has been put into how to 'connect' players with each other, but unfortunatly they were not available in 'full streangth' in the stress test. Since the game is so very group oriented, those tools are an absolute requirement when this Game is released. (as well as somehow encouraging the community to actualy use them --settting themselfs to LFG etc. should be well documented, and explained in in game tutorials. Bottom line though, I had a wonderfull time Grouping and made some great friends.
Pet Peeves: "/tell" -- Every time I had to type that out my agro twards developers increased greatly... Please Please Please add an alias so that I can type /T (seriously, what the heck on that one! /t please?)
/invite - again, how was this missed? it really needs to be in the game.
Targeting:
as a cleric, I really need to know who I have in my sights. I really had to pay attention to make sure that the name I had was the off white color instead of the light yellow color. It's hard to count how many times I miss healed myself instead of the target PC due to the fact that I hit their hot key, while they were already targeted (thus un-targeting them,) leaving no target, then hitting my heal spell hot key, which would hit me with a heal. (very nice for keeping me alive, but on a whole, quite a waste of mana.) All could be avoided by some how indicating my target more clearly.
AI:
Overall the AI was great! however... if we got in a really tight spot, one way that we could get over the hard to master hurddle was to try to get a mob 'caught' on a corner of the terain so that it would be 'trapped'... I would pretend that we were using 'tactics' but the truth is, that at some point, as we would pelt a group of kobolds that just couldn't get out of a tunnle with arrows, or watch a CR 11 Paladin get stuck on a ladder by a pool while we (all at level 4) stood on the other side and slowly whittled him down till he died, ya had to feel just the litlte bit guilty at it... so it would be nice if I couldn't do that sort of thing I guess... (sort of like addmiting that getting diciplined by parents is a good thing.. it's hard to do, but it's also true.)
Conclusion:
I really liked this game. the innovations were unique, the world was beutiful, I really got into careing for the development of my character. I also started to really develop a scence of community after only a few short days. The puzzles were just down right cool. The DM text emotes were great. The rogue emplementation / utilization was the best I have ever seen in an MMORPG (and I didn't even play as a rogue.) Basicly, it's a game that I very much want to play more of.
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__________________
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zWolf / Wade
wadehone@hotmail.com
http://www.wadehone.com
Thank you,
zWolf -out.
Actually it would seem you need to do more than just visit an area once and claim you know all there is to know about it. The areas you are talking about are as static as the dungeons, and also very small comparatively. The "random encounters" that you claim to exist are not random at all, you get the exact same encounters everytime you go to the places and at the exact same spots.
So I would suggest before being so overtly crude and insulting to others and claiming what they say are false, that you make sure what you are claiming to be true actually is. I was in the DDO beta since the frist drawing of participants, and so far I've not seen anything mentioned in any of these posts as being blown out of proportion..other than the claim I've commented on above.
*IF* DDO does survive the market it will be categorized as a niche-game, which in reality it is. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all either, but it's obviously not designed to attract the bulk of the MMO market to date (which again isn't necessarily a bad thing either).
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Actually it would seem you need to do more than just visit an area once and claim you know all there is to know about it. The areas you are talking about are as static as the dungeons, and also very small comparatively. The "random encounters" that you claim to exist are not random at all, you get the exact same encounters everytime you go to the places and at the exact same spots.
So I would suggest before being so overtly crude and insulting to others and claiming what they say are false, that you make sure what you are claiming to be true actually is. I was in the DDO beta since the frist drawing of participants, and so far I've not seen anything mentioned in any of these posts as being blown out of proportion..other than the claim I've commented on above.
*IF* DDO does survive the market it will be categorized as a niche-game, which in reality it is. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all either, but it's obviously not designed to attract the bulk of the MMO market to date (which again isn't necessarily a bad thing either).
I'm sorry if you felt insulted, yet it is true that you can go into an area to grind and "explore". This is no different than the old crop of MMOs where you'd sit at a spawn point and wait for the mob or run around a 5x5 "forest". Not really innovative BUT it is there for those who desire such things.
I used "random encounters" because that is the standard name for such an ecnounter, even though these are not really random. Think you for clarifying that point. ( I do admit I went into those isntances briefly and and did not hang out for too long... I hate grinding)
And it is not false that you can just go and grind monsters in a wilderness, because you can, so I have to disagree with you on that.
I've been playing DDO for several months now and love this game. I think it has some of the most addictive gameplay. the combat system rocks and really shines when you learn to stop clicking and learn to block / tumble (as a fighter of course). the group dynamic work great. it really pays off to have a diverse group. many features people camplain about are trivial. (not all, some are bent on hating it because it is instanced. personally I have no probelm with this.) but the fact that things like /invite these are all things that are easily added as the game progresses in beta and once its gone live. /invite is implemeted now so you dont have to search in the social window forthe player to invite.
for those that complain its not dungeons and dragons. I dont see the argument. it has all the elements of D&D. I wish i had my old books where Gygax said himself "the rules in this book are just that rules and some rules are meant to be broken the key element is that your adventures should be fun" and I happen to think this game is great fun. of course this is just the opinion of one beta tester.
It's a sad day for Dungeons and Dragons. I enjoyed a laugh paralleling this to the first DND movie.
(Yes I play and enjoy DND PNP and have since late 1st ed. as well as I have been playing MMOs since, well, MUDs and I still think this game is atrocious.)
-doro
I know I'll get flamed but then again most of you who flame me dont even know what the Original D&D was like so shh.
IMO this game will lay the foundation on which the future of MMORPG"S are based. The greatest concepts of these are: Active Combat, Instances that work, Required grouping means you will always find a group, Intelligent choices early on make you all the better later so no cookie cutter classes.
Now to shoot down some bad things...
Those of you who are whining about instancing, log off MMORPG and log into WOW and hush. Guild Wars uses instances and its a huge hit. Instancing makes the game more balanced, too many times in WOW I would be on my Hoarde character doing Blackfathom and some level 60 would come cruising through and kill everything so I had to wait on a respawn.
Only thing to do is quest...So the last time you played P&P D&D you said, "I wanna leave the city and go kill some bears and wolves for a few hours and get some xp..." No you said "Im gonna goto the tavern have a drink while everyone buys their gear and then we will head out" Which is exactly what happens in the game. I mean give these guys time to add more content.
No storyline...well it wouldnt be very fun to play the beta and know the storyline would it?
All the quest look alike...in sewers and such...Well try getting beyond say 4th level and then other quest. Dont be surprised if when the game goes live there are alot more quest.
Last but not least, my favorite complaint to hear, No PVP...Where to start. The last time I played D&D and attacked another player in my party the DM took a level from me. PVP is a useless waste of time,resources and effort no matter how good you get someone will always have enough money to get better equipment and beat you. In my epxeriance PVP is just one group attacking one person and then it reverses. So do us all a favor if you want PVP play a different game, Like WOW, or DAOC, or Conquer its free and you can PK people to ur hearts content.
All in all I have only 3 complaints:
1) The havnt added crafting yet but they will...
2)They havnt announced plans for ongoing added content
3)Gnomes, Half Orcs, Druids, and Monk's did not make the cut and they should but Id like to see expansions for them.
Now you may flame away because I wont read any of your replies anyway I'll be playing my Cleric in the Beta happy gaming to you...
I'd like to point out that lots of functionality of even old MMOs are just simply not in this game. It's like the people who created it went down into a little black hole and designed the interface and tell system. I'm not gonna point out all the flaws, but if you've played, you'll know exactly what I mean. For example, EQ has something good, like reply on the 'r' key, so DAOC comes out with that intact. They have something good so EQ adds it. Then some other game comes out and takes convienences from those two games and for a good reason! It's like whoever made this never played any of these games and went "hey, being able to hit 'R' to reply is a really damn good feature."
-doro
Ok...this is good...then answer me this. Why do alignments exist in the game? Did you attack as a Lawful Good, Neutral Good...even Chaotic Good...well, you deserved that lost level. Why have the alignments if you cannot Chaotic Neutral whoever the hell you pleased. Of course this character would be hunted...a post could be made that this man is wanted at this cost (say each kill equals an amount of gold ...etc.)..Bounty hunting...how novel (it is done in Silkroad... and I dont gotta pay them $15 a month)
So, by not having the PvP...they actually strip a major PnP element from DnD....
If a player cannot PvP...PK...then get rid of the alignment system...
Oh, wait...a major feature of DnD...hhmmmm
This game gets less entertaining as I read these posts. (PS: Yes...played stress, played preview...hey gotta grab me quick if you want my money, and these did not do it)
Payed $50 for GW...never looked back, and then bought my wife an account who got hooked.
Play silkroad Online for my grinding...payed NADA...never looked back...Oh and now wife wants to play, as it is "FUN and BEAUTIFUL"...she says.
My days of Pen and paper are lost from this game...I felt no DnD love or nostalgia (except for the tavern..the worst and laggiest part of the game)
Saving my cash, and speaking to the choir...SAVE YOURS TOO