Sorry but I can not agree with you. I found this game lacking. The graphics were only okay. The sound fx was just fine barely. It just can not hold my interest. I grouped with some RL friends in the open/preview beta hoping for something. After a while we all quit and went back to other games. WoW, GW, or even SoR all have more in them. I had such high hopes for this game, sadly I will have to look for something else. IMHO this game will follow AC2.
I too am a pen and paper D&D player and have been one for years. That is why I had such hopes for this game. The people I game with tried it and they agreed with me. Not to waste money nor time on this pile. It seems to fall so short of the mark for a truely fun, mmorpg game.
Originally posted by TroyDarkswrd On one weekend I was asked to join a group that needed a Mage above level 4 so I joined with a good group Once in awhile we would be in the thick of battle and our Cleric would start saying " BOOM, SMASH, POW, CRASH Take that yiou dirty troll try to back stab our paladin and you pay with your life BAM BAM BAM Next" then he would run or hop over to the next bad guy and say " now it's your time to die you fiend " all the while useing this goofy cartoon character voice and the whole team wouild get to laughing and then start to mimic him with their own dumb little cartoon voices I laughed my ass off all day long .
Folks, he may have a point. I mean, this appears to be more intelligent than what I see on General Chat in WoW...
Originally posted by TroyDarkswrd On one weekend I was asked to join a group that needed a Mage above level 4 so I joined with a good group Once in awhile we would be in the thick of battle and our Cleric would start saying " BOOM, SMASH, POW, CRASH Take that yiou dirty troll try to back stab our paladin and you pay with your life BAM BAM BAM Next" then he would run or hop over to the next bad guy and say " now it's your time to die you fiend " all the while useing this goofy cartoon character voice and the whole team wouild get to laughing and then start to mimic him with their own dumb little cartoon voices I laughed my ass off all day long .
Folks, he may have a point. I mean, this appears to be more intelligent than what I see on General Chat in WoW...
You have got to be kidding! Sounds more like an old Batman TV show, where they put the word Bam on the screen when someone hits someone else. That sounds like real intelligent Role Playing...
Originally posted by TroyDarkswrd It seams I hit a cord in saying That DDO is made for the Intelligent only. Now after reading all the rants here I see I was right 100%. The hack and slash crowd hate the game the few that have 7 or 8 years of D&D under their belt if you can call any other game mentioned as D&D think the game repetes its self and is boreing. well thats good once the game opens we won't see any of the slam bash players who spend all their time leveling and farming all day with no real ROLE PLAYING SKILL what so ever. One child said if he was in a game and heard some one say slam bash pow he would leave the game in a flash. Thats tipical of NON RPG gamers. If it's not high speed hack and slash they can't handle the slow pace of what D&D is all about. The game is not for the selfish solo gamers that are only out for themself. IT is totally designed for Team play in the old D&D style using an up dated set of rules. In my room I can look at my library that contains EVERY D&D 1st,2nd & 3d edition PnP Game ever made. I am a Dungeon Master and have replayed every one of these games at least 5 times each with my group of 22 members of D&D gamers. In my Library of TSR Dungeons & Dragons I own every first edition and bought them the day they hit the shelves. At close to 1200 Books and 800 Novels not to mention 2754 Computer games from the old commador 64 up to every consol every made all the way up to a full paid pre order of Oblivion Elderscrolls IV as well as 7 other new games comming' DDO is not the end all, of all these games because there are alot of games I liked much better' DDO is a game that makes you think befor you move! As far as Dungeons and Dragons goes DDO is the top of the Pile so far. Yes it has Bugs thats why it's still in BETA, and compaired from Day one of DDO BETA the game has come along way. This makes my 24th BETA game Ive tested and if you think this game is bad you should have seen WoW 3 weeks before it went gold. You want to talk about a piss pore game just before release!!! NO lets not go there, lets just say alot of the BETA testers were not sure weather they would evey play the final verison. Now I think they just sold their 3 millionth copy but I'm not sure it may have been more. For all those that played for 48-60 hours and felt they beta tested DDO They're wrong!!! you missed the whole Idea of the game. DDO is for Intelligent People that like working together as a team. Depending on each other and not just playing the game but, becoming the game and yes some days it took awile to find a group but other days it was a mater of min from log on to Dungeon Crawl. In the old PnP D&D the difference was that you didn't get to watch your character in action, instead of explaining his/her every move you get to control the moves. Now all those D&D groups out there are really going to love this game. The rest of the world are not D&D gamers they may be top of the line gamers in other types of RPG games but to play DDO you really have to be a Dungeons & Dragons Geek with the world of D&D as their center of the game world putting all other games last. I play alot of WoW and Guild Wars and DDO is a totally different game, in fact I can't begin to compair those 2 to DDO because they are not Dungeons and Dragons but, they are both great games. I guess what I should have said was DDO is made for the D&D GeekS only but if you ever meet one you'll notice they are for the most part more Intelligent than most gamers because they in their bordom invented D&D RPG and got the computer Gaming RPG world started everything else came after.
Just one thing here... I am not sure if you are talking about me or not... I did say I would leave a group if I heard or read something like Bam, Pow Smash, or take that you fiend. But I did not say I would leave the game. I do not consider that intelligent role playing. That is now and always will be childish role playing. Something I would imagine someone with the intelligence of a 10-14 year old.
As I get more time, I will respond to other parts of your post.
In regards to discussion with Som and Burrek Well the cooperative quests idea could work in DDO but it'd be held within the same dungeon i guess. Clearly since everything is instanced you couldn't have one dungeon set a switch for another... unless turbine got really creative and made it so if members are spread over multiple dungeons they become 'linked' so to speak, so if you did for example flick a switch in one dungeon it'd only open a door in the other dungeon instance the rest of your group is in.
Hmm,, turbine should use that come to think of it. I call copyright on that unless asked really nicely .
In regards to the whole no huge world/outdoor area kind've thing well i'm torn at the moment. On one hand i love exploring, hunting stuff outdoors etc. But then i remember world of warcraft and being so utterly annoyed with how long it takes to get anywhere. In that light the instanced nature of this game really appeals to me (only having to run 50 meters to a dungeon). Guess they could've just broken out the old portal tie/recalling thing from AC, i can't really remember being bored running in that game, whenever i had to it was always through some terribly dangerous area and i was too preoccupied to be bored with just running.
Now you've got me wanting a huge fresh new world to explore again, goddamit lol. Well maybe vanguard can help me there :P.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents here -- I have been gaming for a very long time, both on paper and on the PC and console(s) etc. I enjoy gaming very much, I enjoy MMO's very much and am not extremely hard to please when it comes to what I expect of my games. That being said, I was accepted into the DDO Beta, Downloaded and Installed the Beta Client, created a character, played for a couple of hours to try everything out and subsequently logged out and uninstalled the beta client. It is the worst game I have ever tested or played. I do have several reasons for stating that it is the worst, a few are listed here for your information:
Could not get interested in the character development, level advancement and general gameplay after 2 hours of play time.
Could not stand looking at the screen, I honestly believe this game looks like complete garbage, the graphics are horrible for being such a large scale game.
While I understand that they are using Beta Servers to test their game - the lag issues were horrible.
Combat was extremely boring and uneventful, I felt very elementary playing this game.
And, while I am sure it takes a special "something" to play this game and enjoy it, I would harldy be so bold as to say it takes intellegence.
Honestly, about as exciting as watching grass grow (this is being EXTREMELY nice about it.)
While I agree that not all people will be as bored or as unimpressed as I, I will say that the future of this game is not looking very good, especially if they don't pull a overhaul on the game and change it completely before it goes live. They will never get the player base they are "expecting" if they leave it the way it currently is or even in a similar form, it simply has no appeal whatsoever to those of us that actually expect something in return for our monthly fee.....
Originally posted by MarshaSioux I just wanted to add my 2 cents here -- I have been gaming for a very long time, both on paper and on the PC and console(s) etc. I enjoy gaming very much, I enjoy MMO's very much and am not extremely hard to please when it comes to what I expect of my games. That being said, I was accepted into the DDO Beta, Downloaded and Installed the Beta Client, created a character, played for a couple of hours to try everything out and subsequently logged out and uninstalled the beta client. It is the worst game I have ever tested or played. I do have several reasons for stating that it is the worst, a few are listed here for your information:
Could not get interested in the character development, level advancement and general gameplay after 2 hours of play time. Could not stand looking at the screen, I honestly believe this game looks like complete garbage, the graphics are horrible for being such a large scale game. While I understand that they are using Beta Servers to test their game - the lag issues were horrible. Combat was extremely boring and uneventful, I felt very elementary playing this game. And, while I am sure it takes a special "something" to play this game and enjoy it, I would harldy be so bold as to say it takes intellegence.
Honestly, about as exciting as watching grass grow (this is being EXTREMELY nice about it.) While I agree that not all people will be as bored or as unimpressed as I, I will say that the future of this game is not looking very good, especially if they don't pull a overhaul on the game and change it completely before it goes live. They will never get the player base they are "expecting" if they leave it the way it currently is or even in a similar form, it simply has no appeal whatsoever to those of us that actually expect something in return for our monthly fee.....
"It is the worst game I have ever tested or played"
... How come the majority of people is unable to give an objective opinion and always resorts to the extremes of the spectrum... ?
Either one single detail makes them despise the whole game, or their infatuation with it makes them ignore all the faults.
Yeah gotta love the extremes. I saw someone turn down a game because it didn't have centaurs in it the other day (hmm, it might well of been DDO :P) saying that a game is just a cheap mmo ripoff if it only has bipeds. Seriously when you get that dam picky you really need to take a step back. I thought it was in jest but it seemed to be a genuine criticism after reading it all.
Saying it's the worst game you've ever played or tested is a tad harsh i think. Never played Daikatana eh?
To be honest, I don't find MarshaSioux all that harsh... It's pretty close to the real deal...( I'm assuming the person means mmorpgs when they say games... because sometimes I mean mmorpgs )
If people actually think this game requires any more brain power than most previous MMorpgs... The world is probably getting dumber... Instance gives Turbine tons of choices for cool dungeons, but apparently they decided to make everything so simple... No dungeon really connects with any other like what the other guy with the idea of having a switch in one dungeon affect another... Everything necessary is mostly just infront of the player's face... "O hey there's a door... Well wada you know, the switch is right next to the door!...eh, wow that was hard"... Seriously though, it's mostly like that, but there's some switches away from the door in separate rooms, but the direction to it is so obvious that u don't really get the feeling that you had to explore for this switch... What I wish Turbine had done was to make areas more big, like in Guild Wars' instances... Atleast this way, there's more room to actually go the wrong way, and have a sense of how big the area is... In DDO, almost any direction is correct, the wrong way is only like a few feet away from the right direction...( I count treasure chests as "right" ways too... they reward too much )...
Combat and tactics... There's not much too it... (I assume u read or know about what I wrote in above link)... Skeleton archers are about the only archers you'll find, so any one that wants to tank can run up and block, while the party takes out 1 at a time... The only time I'd see reason for a character to roll is when a monster is shooting magic at him, but it's almost pointless, because now u wouldn't be doing damage ( it's better to just strafe around him until he shoots, hit and then run around again )... The only other monster I can think of that u would use tactic is the earth elemental, when it immobolizes someone with earth, it doesn't move nor attack, so whoever its chasing should just run 'til it uses the immobolize stuff and then the team can hit it while that happens... This really is simple stuff to me... Earth elemental, okay... but the other type of strategies exists in various other games and are way too common to be considered anything special... ( Just to clarify a bit more... I find combat in GW have alot more thinking and changing of plans required than in DDO... DDO combat is alot more comparable to RYL, but it's better than RYL of course... If u ever played Zelda: Ocarina of time, there was a real reason to block and stuff in there, in DDO it's not the same )
Summary
Dungeons feel too small... Any direction is almost always the "right" direction...
Dungeon puzzles are way too simple
Combat really doesn't have all that much to them, especially in a group of 6... In groups of 2-3 or maybe even up to 4, tactics are alot more necessary and would actually help... But in groups of 6, it's worse to try to sneak or whatever, because u would get stuff done faster and more efficiently just going head on in most cases...Note - Most of the time you will be in groups of 6, because there's no penalty so more people would only help, and it's necessary for many of the dungeons...
It seams I hit a cord in saying That DDO is made for the Intelligent only. Now after reading all the rants here I see I was right 100%. The hack and slash crowd hate the game the few that have 7 or 8 years of D&D under their belt if you can call any other game mentioned as D&D think the game repetes its self and is boreing. well thats good once the game opens we won't see any of the slam bash players who spend all their time leveling and farming all day with no real ROLE PLAYING SKILL what so ever.
What in the world are you saying in this paragraph? Are you talking about the hack and slash crowd having 7 or 8 years of DnD or ar you talking about two different things here?
And as far as seeing any slam bash players... It would seem that anyone who runs around yelling Bam, Smash, Take that, etc would be classified as slam bash player...
And DDO has no "real" role playing either. Just because you are in a group, doesn't mean you are role playing. And your bam smash, etc is not role playing either.
One child said if he was in a game and heard some one say slam bash pow he would leave the game in a flash. Thats tipical of NON RPG gamers. If it's not high speed hack and slash they can't handle the slow pace of what D&D is all about.
Already covered this...
The game is not for the selfish solo gamers that are only out for themself. IT is totally designed for Team play in the old D&D style using an up dated set of rules.
So solo players are selfish? Could you explain your reasonings here? Explain how someone soloing is in any way hurting your game play.
In my room I can look at my library that contains EVERY D&D 1st,2nd & 3d edition PnP Game ever made. I am a Dungeon Master and have replayed every one of these games at least 5 times each with my group of 22 members of D&D gamers. In my Library of TSR Dungeons & Dragons I own every first edition and bought them the day they hit the shelves. At close to 1200 Books and 800 Novels not to mention 2754 Computer games from the old commador 64 up to every consol every made all the way up to a full paid pre order of Oblivion Elderscrolls IV as well as 7 other new games comming'
Quite impressive... But having all of those books doesn't really mean much, other then you have the money to buy them. They certainly don't make you an expert.
DDO is not the end all, of all these games because there are alot of games I liked much better' DDO is a game that makes you think befor you move! As far as Dungeons and Dragons goes DDO is the top of the Pile so far. Yes it has Bugs thats why it's still in BETA, and compaired from Day one of DDO BETA the game has come along way.
I certainly hope that DDO would have come a long way from day one of beta. That is expected. If it did not, it would never make retail.
This makes my 24th BETA game Ive tested and if you think this game is bad you should have seen WoW 3 weeks before it went gold. You want to talk about a piss pore game just before release!!! NO lets not go there, lets just say alot of the BETA testers were not sure weather they would evey play the final verison. Now I think they just sold their 3 millionth copy but I'm not sure it may have been more.
First off... I was there in WoW... It was not that bad. I actually feel that DDO is farther behind then WoW was at teh same point. And WoW is over 5 million now.
Quick question... Do you think that DDO will go over 1 or 2 million subscribers?
For all those that played for 48-60 hours and felt they beta tested DDO They're wrong!!! you missed the whole Idea of the game. DDO is for Intelligent People that like working together as a team. Depending on each other and not just playing the game but, becoming the game and yes some days it took awile to find a group but other days it was a mater of min from log on to Dungeon Crawl.
How many hours does it take to be considered a beta tester?
It was fairly easy to find a group in DDO... What was not so easy was finding a good group that was willing to role play and do things slow and enjoy them.
In the old PnP D&D the difference was that you didn't get to watch your character in action, instead of explaining his/her every move you get to control the moves. Now all those D&D groups out there are really going to love this game.
Are you saying that "all" DnD groups are going to love DDO? Quite a broad range of groups out there.
The rest of the world are not D&D gamers they may be top of the line gamers in other types of RPG games but to play DDO you really have to be a Dungeons & Dragons Geek with the world of D&D as their center of the game world putting all other games last. I play alot of WoW and Guild Wars and DDO is a totally different game, in fact I can't begin to compair those 2 to DDO because they are not Dungeons and Dragons but, they are both great games.
I have to agree with you here... WoW and Guild Wars are good games and should not be compared to DDO or should DDO be compared to WoW or GW.
I guess what I should have said was DDO is made for the D&D GeekS only but if you ever meet one you'll notice they are for the most part more Intelligent than most gamers because they in their bordom invented D&D RPG and got the computer Gaming RPG world started everything else came after.
I don't think you are actually saying that the original creators of DnD numbered in the hundrerds or thousands, but it does read that way. And no one has said that PnP DnD gamers were stupid.
I played PnP DnD since the first boxed set came out. And I still love it. I just want more from DDO then it seems it is going to be. I guess my mistake is trying to compare it to the PNp game. It is just not the same as the PnP game. And in all honesty, it can never be unless they completely redo it. For instance, the combat system used in DDO is nothing like that used in the PnP game. If you want to discuss the differences and similarities id DDO with PnP, we can start a new thread for that.
This game wasn't for me. I will admit only playing for one of the beta weekends, but nothing drew me in, and made me want to continue any further. I think I represent more of today's gamer, that never played or was ever interested in the pen and paper edition of this game. I came at it just like I would any other MMO having a free beta weekend, and based my opinion off of that.
I played a cleric, and thought the buff spells were pretty cool looking right off the bat. I did the newb tutorials, and liked how you could interact with objects and solve puzzles, and everything was hunkey dorey. I was actually pretty stoked to hit my first "real" dungeon, and see what the game was all about. I boarded the ship, and made it to the first city, and found the tavern, and so on, and then somewhere the game lost me.
I did all the tavern quests, and headed out to the city looking for somthing more....but didn't ever really find it. All of the action was in instances, and I mean ALL of the action, sans Guild Wars. To me, the dungeons looked all very much the same. Everything was gloomy and dark, the mobs were few and far between. The puzzles quickly became more of a nuissance than any form of challenge, and although I admire the concept, I just didn't feel Turbine accomplished what they set out to.
In the end, I guess I just felt bored. I'm not an avid role player, and my background is more in FPS than in MMO, so again, maybe I'm not the target audience here, but the game did not draw me in at all. I felt no emotion, and since there was no player versus player competition to look forward too either, the negatives quickly began to outweigh the positives, and so ended my weekend.
It's too late for Turbine to make any drastic gameplay changes, and I'm just not feeling the game at this point. It is now what it's going to be at realease, except for a few minor changes. With that said, I don't expect to buy it on release.
Originally posted by TroyDarkswrd Hello fellow MMORPG members. I have Been spending most of my time for the past 10 months playing Guild Wars and WoW and then in Sept 25 I was invited to Be a beta tester for DDO. To be truthful DDO is an above the 75-80% mark for an MMORPG. but remember I have only played the beta and the game changed a number of times in the past 4 months and more for the better with each upgrade. The free team speek feature helps the game play alot . At times when you can find a good group of people to play with you can really get into game play and the missions and Quests fly by as well as the hours. They had a live dungeon Master on line from around 10:00 AM to about 7:00 PM that would sometimes help the game play and other times give you choices to make that could make or break the mission if you chose the wrong path. Many times The game reminded me of the old Table top PnP. On one weekend I was asked to join a group that needed a Mage above level 4 so I joined with a good group Once in awhile we would be in the thick of battle and our Cleric would start saying " BOOM, SMASH, POW, CRASH Take that yiou dirty troll try to back stab our paladin and you pay with your life BAM BAM BAM Next" then he would run or hop over to the next bad guy and say " now it's your time to die you fiend " all the while useing this goofy cartoon character voice and the whole team wouild get to laughing and then start to mimic him with their own dumb little cartoon voices I laughed my ass off all day long . That laster for about 6 hours one saterday just after Thanksgiving Day. I gained 4 more levels that day and did more missions in that 7 hours than I had done in the two months before. I never was able to team up with that group again and never thought about starting up a guild with them until after the game crashed late that afternoon and couldn't get back on line until the next day. During that day of role playing with a group of people that really got into the game the way I believe it was really ment to be played , may have been the best day on any MMORPG that I have ever played. DDO can be a slow moving uneventful game if you sit around a bar watching the people test their different magic spells just so they can watch the effects of the flash bang and light show and never do anything else. If you find a well ballanced group of friends and deside to seriously attack the game and have some real fun RPG adventures it can be the best MMORPG ever made. DDO is really right on as a Dungeon & Dragons RPG and I recomend it only to Hard Core RPG Gamers. This game isn't desiged as a hack and slash game so if thats what your looking for then find another game But, if you really want to Role Play and get into a game that has "NO" PvP what so ever and has many Puzzles and traps that requires you to think before you attack or even run down a passage or your dead then this is the game you have been looking for. DDO is the real deal as far as RPG for the masses and for the true followers of Dungeons and Dragons otherwise the rest of you go play star wars or go back to WoW because this game isn't made for you and I mean no offence to anybody, It's just the truth Real RPG for real RPG gamers.
So nice to see a review from a RP'er. Thanks for your post and hope to see you in game!
I think that most MMORPGamers today have NEVER even played the old pencil and paper Dungeons and Dragons games or any other RPG's, thus the lacklustre reviews of anything that isn't World of Warcrap.
This post illuminates some problems I have with DDO...
First off, the "Boom, smash, pow, crash, etc." is why I do not use team speak. If I heard that, the first thing I would do would be to say I was out of there, the second would be to leave the group.
That is so very sad I can't even begin to tell you. Ever heard of "fun"? It's this great thing that happens when you aren't all uptight.
Second... In 6 hours you gained 4 more levels. That to mee seem to be a little fast. At that rate, you would be at the top level in just a few weeks of playing. Than what do you do?
He was level 4 man. 6 hours for levels 5 to 9 sounds about right for ANY game. Try reading more than just the part that you don't like.
I am sorry, but the game seems to be lacking in some ways.
Just my opinion...
I almost forgot... Your topic title... For the intelligent only... If the boom smash, etc is an indication of the intelligence level... What a sad indication...
Role Playing IS for the more intelligent of us who like to do more than press buttons for our escape from reality.
Originally posted by Volkmar so, basically, dear OP, you are saying the game rocks because you had the luck to find couple pick up groups of people that were good players? Cause that is all i see you saying. there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of what is good in the game, only how good people those were.
The game was good enough to facilitate his fun, and that's good enough for him and for me too, if you must know.
Originally posted by Volkmar so, basically, dear OP, you are saying the game rocks because you had the luck to find couple pick up groups of people that were good players? Cause that is all i see you saying. there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of what is good in the game, only how good people those were.
The game was good enough to facilitate his fun, and that's good enough for him and for me too, if you must know.
The quests are horrifically bland. How many times can you click on a secret door trigger, pick up a item or kill a mob. The odd puzzle is fun the first time but since you have to do the same quests over and over to level they are DULL. No randomness, no excitement... button mashing combat. Boring. Intelligent people only? If by intelligent you mean people that like to do the exact same quests and button mashing over and over then I guess you are right.
But then, you're playing WoW so I suspect that you have already died of boredom and will never get to read this post.
You must have been playing a completely different Asheron's Call than I was if you find any of the linear, go from point A to point B quests in DDO superior to the quests in AC.
Gaining items has little or nothing to do with what made the quests in Asheron's Call superior; the size, challenge and storyline that supported them made them superior. You already pointed out jumping - add in the requirement for lockpicking skills, levers and hidden doors. If you never found a hidden door, or didn't even know they existed, you just couldn't have gotten that deep into AC.
If I find myself lost in a dungeon because it is huge, complex and well designed; that is immersion. If my heart is pounding because I am surrounded by enemies and my group is fighting their way toward their goal, even if that goal is just a safe area, that is immersive. I found nothing of the sort in DDO. The quest NPCs give me no particular motivation to do the quest; there is no involving, progressive storyline present and little or no lore supporting it. The dungeons started at one point and ended at another, and the handy map showed me where I'd been and for the most part, where I was going. If you had to repeat the dungeon, it presented no particular difficulty since spawns, traps and obstacles are static. Yes, obstacles and traps were static in AC; but the spawns kept you constantly on your toes.
I also find it very difficult to believe that anyone who played Asheron's Call for two years when it started could find any single quest or storyline in DDO to rival the Shadow War. The best part of those storylines is that those quests still exist. You can still fight Black Ferrah, you can still recover the Sword of Lost Light and they are still part of the lore. Even if you weren't present for the Shadow War, you can still visit the deathbed of Bael'Zharon on Aerlinthe Isle.
Looking for a special item is often THE central goal of much fantasy fiction; what that central goal evolves into and where it leads depends completely on the lore, story and characters, ergo roleplay. The Fellowship of the Ring was about nine adventurers who, at the core, were going to a volcano to throw a ring embodying evil in their world into it. It was their separate backgrounds, weaknesses, strengths and conflicts that gave heart to the story and made it more than just "throw the ring into the volcano."
Compared to DDO, AC is very basic? What quests, exactly, did you do in your two years? How about the cooperative quests that took place between groups in two or even three separate dungeons, where you could only succeed if a group in another dungeon managed to reach the levers or machines to open the next area in your dungeon? That was complexity and it involved large groups comprised of levels from twenty-five to sixty-five. Nearly everyone could be involved in them. They required an incredible amount of organization and communication, besides just the skills to get to the locations you needed to reach.
It was never about killing X monster to find X item; most of the quests that I completed, I found purely by chance and it took thought to complete them. Half the time, it was a puzzle just trying to find the location that the NPC was referring you to. Unlike DDO, where it is marked on a handy map in a small city, in AC you were normally given an area in a vast world.
Yes, I played DDO. I was in the beta, though I finally just uninstalled Stormreach when I realized that I rarely logged in to play the game. Honestly, I found it not only extremely boring but lacking most of the major components that make D&D PnP the great experience it is. Nothing in DDO delineates my character/avatar from the other X number of characters who look nearly identical to me. The only things truly unique about my character was my name.
True, the vast majority of MMORPGs are guilty of the same thing. Which is why DDO, again, is disappointing. The concept that brought roleplaying to the masses should redefine the MMORPG genre as well, starting with options to make the player character as unique as possible. Although CoH was very linear, the one thing it had was a very robust character creation. So robust that I could identify my friends out of crowds of hundreds of other players. DDO should have that. If it had incorporated more of the actual elements from the PnP game, it would have.
Crafting may be in sometime in the future? No alignments? No deities? No huge world to discover? No bulidings to break into? Missing races? Missing classes? The list just goes on.
I call the "fetch X amount of something to get X" complex when what you have to go through to get X amount of items involves exploration of an area or dungeon you have never been in before. Exploring that area leads to discovery. I don't call "fetch X" immersive if it means sitting next to a static spawn for hours on end. I call "fetch X amount" complex if you aren't following a walkthrough from a fan web page and are forced to speak to NPCs and learn more about the story. I call it immersive when you are forced to explore areas of the game world because you aren't given the exact location on a map.
In AC, to create my GSA, I went to a dungeon south of Qalaba'r because I had heard there were shadows in there. It took considerable time, but I managed to explore the entire dungeon through perseverance and lockpick skill. Not only did I manage to get the shadow shards I needed for my armor, but I also discovered an NPC in the bottom of the dungeon, Hamud Ibn Rafik, damned to existence as a Shadow. That led me back to his daughter and revealed the entire story as I progressed through the quest from her, to her father, to the Empyrean Foundry and back to Hamud.
That whole quest series started because I wanted to "fetch X" but instead, found adventure where I least expected it and the robust story of Hamud Ibn Rafik drew me in.
I don't call it immersive when I speak to an NPC, they tell me exactly where to go, that location is down the street and to the left on my handy dandy map, I enter and everything is static so I only have to complete a section of the dungeon once to know that's exactly what I'll be facing the next time I go in from monsters to traps, the dungeon leads from the entrance to the end and I never have to fear surprises after dealing with a particular section. How is that immersive? Worse, to continue progressing I may have to repeat that dungeon again in the future, and guess what? No surprises there.
I don't call it immersive when nothing I get in the dungeon is unique in the slightest and I have no ability to modify it myself to make it unique. I may get a +3 Vorpal Blade, but someone else will get one as well at some point, so big whoop. I can't add to it, I can't name it, I can't change anything about it.
I'm not insulting anyone who has played and enjoys DDO. I believe anyone who is interested should give it a try BUT I also believe that potential customers should know exactly what the game has or doesn't have.
Yikes.
While I have my lawyer read that, you two arguing back and forth makes me want to play AC and DDO so bad. They both sound really kewl. Both are made by the same company....are you both employees?
This post illuminates some problems I have with DDO... First off, the "Boom, smash, pow, crash, etc." is why I do not use team speak. If I heard that, the first thing I would do would be to say I was out of there, the second would be to leave the group. That is so very sad I can't even begin to tell you. Ever heard of "fun"? It's this great thing that happens when you aren't all uptight. Sorry, I just don't call running around and yelling out that kind of stuff fun... Childish, maybe, but not fun. If you call it fun, good for you... Go for it... Second... In 6 hours you gained 4 more levels. That to mee seem to be a little fast. At that rate, you would be at the top level in just a few weeks of playing. Than what do you do? He was level 4 man. 6 hours for levels 5 to 9 sounds about right for ANY game. Try reading more than just the part that you don't like. You do realize that there are only 10 levels to this game, right? And I hate to compare, but that would be like going from level 25 to level 55 in WoW. Try thinking about what you are posting... As I said the game will only have 10 levels when it goes live. At the rate he is talking about he should be able to start and reach level 10 in one day. I do not care what game you are talking about, if you can do that, it is way to fast. I am sorry, but the game seems to be lacking in some ways. Just my opinion... I almost forgot... Your topic title... For the intelligent only... If the boom smash, etc is an indication of the intelligence level... What a sad indication... Role Playing IS for the more intelligent of us who like to do more than press buttons for our escape from reality. Ah, I see, like running around and yelling Bam, Smash, and Take That...? As I said before real intelligent... For kids.
Originally posted by Havoc11 "made for the intelligent only!!" So anyone who can't enjoy it isn't intelligent? You may want to rethink your title. DDO does not deserve a 9, what new features does it offer over other MMORPGs, none I would say. The combat in game is boring, quests are bland, there are no trade skills, there is no PVP, no player owned buildings, and forced grouping. Heck, it doesn't even have the monk or druid, and you can't be evil!
Huh? Why would it need to offer 'new features"? The best MMORPG's dont add NEW features, they take all the best features of other successful games. It doesnt have to be NEW to be good, it just has to have the elements that make it fun.
I agree with Ramadin totally, they should keep it simple and fun because we all know that the majority of MMORPGers are younger and demand gratification. I'm 19 I have played many mmogs and I was really excited about DDO but now as other people say its too complicated for its own good why bother.
I know the original Dungeons and Dragons game wa snot really complicated so why would they make the online counterpart that way not good marketing and not good thinking. I wonder how they think their game will stack up against some mmorpgs already out now and those in development?
I will be playing it for like a month if it has a free play period before I have to pay, if not I won't bother. My thoughts.
________________________________ I must not fear, fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me. ________________________________
I can understand both sides of the debate. DDO seems to be a game that is tailored to casual gamers more so than the Hardcore gamers. To most hardcore gamers this would probably be a walkthru. As for the argument of hitting lvl 10 inside of 2 weeks of beta...is this any different from any other game? Folks have hit lvl 60 inside of a week in WoW. However, if this becomes a commonplace issue that should be looked at.
I believe from earlier excerpts the folks at Turbine wanted to restrict the game to the town to cut down on travel times. To this I say "cool", but the flip side results in a drastically slimmed down exploration element; so those who like to really explore their worlds are going to be disappointed, as we've seen.
The strongest element of D&D is the Missions, or should I say "dungeon crawls", and while there is tons of debate on this, I'd have to weigh in on the plus side, for this reason. I'm a casual gamer. When I log on to my game, I want to get a group together and "get to cracking". My schedule rarely coincides w/ my friends and when we do get together, we play PnP RPGs. Even still, it doesn't take long to get a group together. In fact, almost every time I've turned my "lfg" light over my head on (which I think is pretty neat), I get an invite within a few minutes, regardless of either the time of day or what class of character I'm playing. Mind you, I've only played a cleric, barbarian and a rogue, so I can't really say what it would be like for other classes. For me, the missions are varied enough to be exciting, and the quests flow from one to the other better than any other MMO I've played. Heck, a group of us knocked out 4 missions inside of 30 minutes, each w/ different tilesets, monsters, and quest objectives, and we weren't moving fast. I found Waterworks to be very fun every time I've played, because each time I was w/ a different group that reacted differently to what was going on. If a quest is too easy, just raise the difficulty.
Does the game have months of replayability and immersion, IMO? I'd have to say no. I think it's a "3 month and out" game, but there's alot about this game I do like and may come back to it w/ minimum upgrades. I mentioned I wasn't a fan of long transportation times; I'm also not a big fan of crafts, although I had fun w/ WoW's craft system up til the artisan level, when I had to spend 2 weeks trying to buy/beg/steal/grind for hours to collect what I needed to succeed, then finding out i needed to get even more stuff. Not fun, man. Thanks to WoW, whenever I even see a turtle in real life I get this sudden compulsion to skin the hell out of it. You WoWers will understand what I mean.
For the OP: Kudos for having fun in the game; unfortunately, the social experiences and "inside jokes" that your group finds funny at the time doesn't resonate well when told to others. it's like trying to share a personal joke w/ someone else. They may laugh or chuckle, but inside they're trying to get the joke. Happens to darn near everyone.
The intelligent phrase was unfortunate, but hey, it happens. BTW, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the hardcore gamer. If I didn't have a job and other stuff to keep me busy, I might be writing some of the more critical stuff about DDO, because at the end of the day, there is very little content that would appeal to one. I'm not being an absolutist, and I'm definitely not telling the Hardcore community what they like and don't like. If there's a crack or an exploit in a game to be had, the hardcore gamer will find it so the devs can plug the hole and make it a better game. Not only do they have to be "intelligent", but they are also "dedicated". And a little insane, but in a good way.
The counterpoint for those who don't like the game is valid as well. If DDO does well (and I hope it does) it will most likely succeed as a niche game made up mainly of casual gamers and a smaller amount of hardcore fans sticking around to help out. I foresee the game having a good start, but falling off and stabilizing in about 3 months or so. It won't be WoW, but it won't be Matrix Online either (fingers crossed).
Ah Ken i've played the Beta and it's no more complicated than any D&D game i've ever played. It's a real-time mmorpg affair, obviously theres a lot of mouse clicking now but hey that isn't exactly complicated. Character creation is the same as like NWN and i'd assume PnP (can't say i've ever played PnP before admittedly, doesn't seem common here in Oz).
Might i add complicated isn't that bad, there should at least be some learning curve with a game otherwise i doubt it'll hold your attention very long.
Sorry but for me.. I found the quests to be extremely repetative. It seemed to me that the just took several quests and basically rehashed them or added to the level you of mob you have to fight.
I really had problems with the feeling of not being in a community. No sense of any kind of world at all. Just this city you will never get out of.
To each his own i guess. I played DnD as a teen and was really looking forward to this.. but DnD aside, the actual game was not much fun for me.
Comments
Sorry but I can not agree with you. I found this game lacking. The graphics were only okay. The sound fx was just fine barely. It just can not hold my interest. I grouped with some RL friends in the open/preview beta hoping for something. After a while we all quit and went back to other games. WoW, GW, or even SoR all have more in them. I had such high hopes for this game, sadly I will have to look for something else. IMHO this game will follow AC2.
I too am a pen and paper D&D player and have been one for years. That is why I had such hopes for this game. The people I game with tried it and they agreed with me. Not to waste money nor time on this pile. It seems to fall so short of the mark for a truely fun, mmorpg game.
My ranking for this game 3 out of 10.
Apoljing
Fading Shadows Guild
You have got to be kidding! Sounds more like an old Batman TV show, where they put the word Bam on the screen when someone hits someone else. That sounds like real intelligent Role Playing...
Just one thing here... I am not sure if you are talking about me or not... I did say I would leave a group if I heard or read something like Bam, Pow Smash, or take that you fiend. But I did not say I would leave the game. I do not consider that intelligent role playing. That is now and always will be childish role playing. Something I would imagine someone with the intelligence of a 10-14 year old.
As I get more time, I will respond to other parts of your post.
In regards to discussion with Som and Burrek
Well the cooperative quests idea could work in DDO but it'd be held within the same dungeon i guess. Clearly since everything is instanced you couldn't have one dungeon set a switch for another... unless turbine got really creative and made it so if members are spread over multiple dungeons they become 'linked' so to speak, so if you did for example flick a switch in one dungeon it'd only open a door in the other dungeon instance the rest of your group is in.
Hmm,, turbine should use that come to think of it.
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I call copyright on that unless asked really nicely
In regards to the whole no huge world/outdoor area kind've thing well i'm torn at the moment. On one hand i love exploring, hunting stuff outdoors etc. But then i remember world of warcraft and being so utterly annoyed with how long it takes to get anywhere. In that light the instanced nature of this game really appeals to me (only having to run 50 meters to a dungeon). Guess they could've just broken out the old portal tie/recalling thing from AC, i can't really remember being bored running in that game, whenever i had to it was always through some terribly dangerous area and i was too preoccupied to be bored with just running.
Now you've got me wanting a huge fresh new world to explore again, goddamit lol. Well maybe vanguard can help me there :P.
Omg it's true, this is the end of my post :O
I just wanted to add my 2 cents here -- I have been gaming for a very long time, both on paper and on the PC and console(s) etc. I enjoy gaming very much, I enjoy MMO's very much and am not extremely hard to please when it comes to what I expect of my games. That being said, I was accepted into the DDO Beta, Downloaded and Installed the Beta Client, created a character, played for a couple of hours to try everything out and subsequently logged out and uninstalled the beta client. It is the worst game I have ever tested or played. I do have several reasons for stating that it is the worst, a few are listed here for your information:
Honestly, about as exciting as watching grass grow (this is being EXTREMELY nice about it.)
While I agree that not all people will be as bored or as unimpressed as I, I will say that the future of this game is not looking very good, especially if they don't pull a overhaul on the game and change it completely before it goes live. They will never get the player base they are "expecting" if they leave it the way it currently is or even in a similar form, it simply has no appeal whatsoever to those of us that actually expect something in return for our monthly fee.....
I'm the girl the ESRB warned you about...
Yeah gotta love the extremes.
I saw someone turn down a game because it didn't have centaurs in it the other day (hmm, it might well of been DDO :P) saying that a game is just a cheap mmo ripoff if it only has bipeds. Seriously when you get that dam picky you really need to take a step back. I thought it was in jest but it seemed to be a genuine criticism after reading it all.
Saying it's the worst game you've ever played or tested is a tad harsh i think. Never played Daikatana eh?
Omg it's true, this is the end of my post :O
To be honest, I don't find MarshaSioux all that harsh... It's pretty close to the real deal...( I'm assuming the person means mmorpgs when they say games... because sometimes I mean mmorpgs )
If people actually think this game requires any more brain power than most previous MMorpgs... The world is probably getting dumber... Instance gives Turbine tons of choices for cool dungeons, but apparently they decided to make everything so simple... No dungeon really connects with any other like what the other guy with the idea of having a switch in one dungeon affect another... Everything necessary is mostly just infront of the player's face... "O hey there's a door... Well wada you know, the switch is right next to the door!...eh, wow that was hard
"... Seriously though, it's mostly like that, but there's some switches away from the door in separate rooms, but the direction to it is so obvious that u don't really get the feeling that you had to explore for this switch... What I wish Turbine had done was to make areas more big, like in Guild Wars' instances... Atleast this way, there's more room to actually go the wrong way, and have a sense of how big the area is... In DDO, almost any direction is correct, the wrong way is only like a few feet away from the right direction...( I count treasure chests as "right" ways too... they reward too much )...
I posted some stuff in this thread too... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/51/loadthread/65619/setstart/1/loadclass/35
Combat and tactics... There's not much too it... (I assume u read or know about what I wrote in above link)... Skeleton archers are about the only archers you'll find, so any one that wants to tank can run up and block, while the party takes out 1 at a time... The only time I'd see reason for a character to roll is when a monster is shooting magic at him, but it's almost pointless, because now u wouldn't be doing damage ( it's better to just strafe around him until he shoots, hit and then run around again )... The only other monster I can think of that u would use tactic is the earth elemental, when it immobolizes someone with earth, it doesn't move nor attack, so whoever its chasing should just run 'til it uses the immobolize stuff and then the team can hit it while that happens... This really is simple stuff to me... Earth elemental, okay... but the other type of strategies exists in various other games and are way too common to be considered anything special... ( Just to clarify a bit more... I find combat in GW have alot more thinking and changing of plans required than in DDO... DDO combat is alot more comparable to RYL, but it's better than RYL of course... If u ever played Zelda: Ocarina of time, there was a real reason to block and stuff in there, in DDO it's not the same )
Summary
I played PnP DnD since the first boxed set came out. And I still love it. I just want more from DDO then it seems it is going to be. I guess my mistake is trying to compare it to the PNp game. It is just not the same as the PnP game. And in all honesty, it can never be unless they completely redo it. For instance, the combat system used in DDO is nothing like that used in the PnP game. If you want to discuss the differences and similarities id DDO with PnP, we can start a new thread for that.
This game wasn't for me. I will admit only playing for one of the beta weekends, but nothing drew me in, and made me want to continue any further. I think I represent more of today's gamer, that never played or was ever interested in the pen and paper edition of this game. I came at it just like I would any other MMO having a free beta weekend, and based my opinion off of that.
I played a cleric, and thought the buff spells were pretty cool looking right off the bat. I did the newb tutorials, and liked how you could interact with objects and solve puzzles, and everything was hunkey dorey. I was actually pretty stoked to hit my first "real" dungeon, and see what the game was all about. I boarded the ship, and made it to the first city, and found the tavern, and so on, and then somewhere the game lost me.
I did all the tavern quests, and headed out to the city looking for somthing more....but didn't ever really find it. All of the action was in instances, and I mean ALL of the action, sans Guild Wars. To me, the dungeons looked all very much the same. Everything was gloomy and dark, the mobs were few and far between. The puzzles quickly became more of a nuissance than any form of challenge, and although I admire the concept, I just didn't feel Turbine accomplished what they set out to.
In the end, I guess I just felt bored. I'm not an avid role player, and my background is more in FPS than in MMO, so again, maybe I'm not the target audience here, but the game did not draw me in at all. I felt no emotion, and since there was no player versus player competition to look forward too either, the negatives quickly began to outweigh the positives, and so ended my weekend.
It's too late for Turbine to make any drastic gameplay changes, and I'm just not feeling the game at this point. It is now what it's going to be at realease, except for a few minor changes. With that said, I don't expect to buy it on release.
So nice to see a review from a RP'er. Thanks for your post and hope to see you in game!
I think that most MMORPGamers today have NEVER even played the old pencil and paper Dungeons and Dragons games or any other RPG's, thus the lacklustre reviews of anything that isn't World of Warcrap.
You must have been playing a completely different Asheron's Call than I was if you find any of the linear, go from point A to point B quests in DDO superior to the quests in AC.
Gaining items has little or nothing to do with what made the quests in Asheron's Call superior; the size, challenge and storyline that supported them made them superior. You already pointed out jumping - add in the requirement for lockpicking skills, levers and hidden doors. If you never found a hidden door, or didn't even know they existed, you just couldn't have gotten that deep into AC.
If I find myself lost in a dungeon because it is huge, complex and well designed; that is immersion. If my heart is pounding because I am surrounded by enemies and my group is fighting their way toward their goal, even if that goal is just a safe area, that is immersive. I found nothing of the sort in DDO. The quest NPCs give me no particular motivation to do the quest; there is no involving, progressive storyline present and little or no lore supporting it. The dungeons started at one point and ended at another, and the handy map showed me where I'd been and for the most part, where I was going. If you had to repeat the dungeon, it presented no particular difficulty since spawns, traps and obstacles are static. Yes, obstacles and traps were static in AC; but the spawns kept you constantly on your toes.
I also find it very difficult to believe that anyone who played Asheron's Call for two years when it started could find any single quest or storyline in DDO to rival the Shadow War. The best part of those storylines is that those quests still exist. You can still fight Black Ferrah, you can still recover the Sword of Lost Light and they are still part of the lore. Even if you weren't present for the Shadow War, you can still visit the deathbed of Bael'Zharon on Aerlinthe Isle.
Looking for a special item is often THE central goal of much fantasy fiction; what that central goal evolves into and where it leads depends completely on the lore, story and characters, ergo roleplay. The Fellowship of the Ring was about nine adventurers who, at the core, were going to a volcano to throw a ring embodying evil in their world into it. It was their separate backgrounds, weaknesses, strengths and conflicts that gave heart to the story and made it more than just "throw the ring into the volcano."
Compared to DDO, AC is very basic? What quests, exactly, did you do in your two years? How about the cooperative quests that took place between groups in two or even three separate dungeons, where you could only succeed if a group in another dungeon managed to reach the levers or machines to open the next area in your dungeon? That was complexity and it involved large groups comprised of levels from twenty-five to sixty-five. Nearly everyone could be involved in them. They required an incredible amount of organization and communication, besides just the skills to get to the locations you needed to reach.
It was never about killing X monster to find X item; most of the quests that I completed, I found purely by chance and it took thought to complete them. Half the time, it was a puzzle just trying to find the location that the NPC was referring you to. Unlike DDO, where it is marked on a handy map in a small city, in AC you were normally given an area in a vast world.
Yes, I played DDO. I was in the beta, though I finally just uninstalled Stormreach when I realized that I rarely logged in to play the game. Honestly, I found it not only extremely boring but lacking most of the major components that make D&D PnP the great experience it is. Nothing in DDO delineates my character/avatar from the other X number of characters who look nearly identical to me. The only things truly unique about my character was my name.
True, the vast majority of MMORPGs are guilty of the same thing. Which is why DDO, again, is disappointing. The concept that brought roleplaying to the masses should redefine the MMORPG genre as well, starting with options to make the player character as unique as possible. Although CoH was very linear, the one thing it had was a very robust character creation. So robust that I could identify my friends out of crowds of hundreds of other players. DDO should have that. If it had incorporated more of the actual elements from the PnP game, it would have.
Crafting may be in sometime in the future? No alignments? No deities? No huge world to discover? No bulidings to break into? Missing races? Missing classes? The list just goes on.
I call the "fetch X amount of something to get X" complex when what you have to go through to get X amount of items involves exploration of an area or dungeon you have never been in before. Exploring that area leads to discovery. I don't call "fetch X" immersive if it means sitting next to a static spawn for hours on end. I call "fetch X amount" complex if you aren't following a walkthrough from a fan web page and are forced to speak to NPCs and learn more about the story. I call it immersive when you are forced to explore areas of the game world because you aren't given the exact location on a map.
In AC, to create my GSA, I went to a dungeon south of Qalaba'r because I had heard there were shadows in there. It took considerable time, but I managed to explore the entire dungeon through perseverance and lockpick skill. Not only did I manage to get the shadow shards I needed for my armor, but I also discovered an NPC in the bottom of the dungeon, Hamud Ibn Rafik, damned to existence as a Shadow. That led me back to his daughter and revealed the entire story as I progressed through the quest from her, to her father, to the Empyrean Foundry and back to Hamud.
That whole quest series started because I wanted to "fetch X" but instead, found adventure where I least expected it and the robust story of Hamud Ibn Rafik drew me in.
I don't call it immersive when I speak to an NPC, they tell me exactly where to go, that location is down the street and to the left on my handy dandy map, I enter and everything is static so I only have to complete a section of the dungeon once to know that's exactly what I'll be facing the next time I go in from monsters to traps, the dungeon leads from the entrance to the end and I never have to fear surprises after dealing with a particular section. How is that immersive? Worse, to continue progressing I may have to repeat that dungeon again in the future, and guess what? No surprises there.
I don't call it immersive when nothing I get in the dungeon is unique in the slightest and I have no ability to modify it myself to make it unique. I may get a +3 Vorpal Blade, but someone else will get one as well at some point, so big whoop. I can't add to it, I can't name it, I can't change anything about it.
I'm not insulting anyone who has played and enjoys DDO. I believe anyone who is interested should give it a try BUT I also believe that potential customers should know exactly what the game has or doesn't have.
Yikes.
While I have my lawyer read that, you two arguing back and forth makes me want to play AC and DDO so bad. They both sound really kewl. Both are made by the same company....are you both employees?
-----------------Censored------------------
I agree with Ramadin totally, they should keep it simple and fun because we all know that the majority of MMORPGers are younger and demand gratification. I'm 19 I have played many mmogs and I was really excited about DDO but now as other people say its too complicated for its own good why bother.
I know the original Dungeons and Dragons game wa snot really complicated so why would they make the online counterpart that way not good marketing and not good thinking. I wonder how they think their game will stack up against some mmorpgs already out now and those in development?
I will be playing it for like a month if it has a free play period before I have to pay, if not I won't bother. My thoughts.
________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
________________________________
Long time forum reader, 1st time poster...
I can understand both sides of the debate. DDO seems to be a game that is tailored to casual gamers more so than the Hardcore gamers. To most hardcore gamers this would probably be a walkthru. As for the argument of hitting lvl 10 inside of 2 weeks of beta...is this any different from any other game? Folks have hit lvl 60 inside of a week in WoW. However, if this becomes a commonplace issue that should be looked at.
I believe from earlier excerpts the folks at Turbine wanted to restrict the game to the town to cut down on travel times. To this I say "cool", but the flip side results in a drastically slimmed down exploration element; so those who like to really explore their worlds are going to be disappointed, as we've seen.
The strongest element of D&D is the Missions, or should I say "dungeon crawls", and while there is tons of debate on this, I'd have to weigh in on the plus side, for this reason. I'm a casual gamer. When I log on to my game, I want to get a group together and "get to cracking". My schedule rarely coincides w/ my friends and when we do get together, we play PnP RPGs. Even still, it doesn't take long to get a group together. In fact, almost every time I've turned my "lfg" light over my head on (which I think is pretty neat), I get an invite within a few minutes, regardless of either the time of day or what class of character I'm playing. Mind you, I've only played a cleric, barbarian and a rogue, so I can't really say what it would be like for other classes. For me, the missions are varied enough to be exciting, and the quests flow from one to the other better than any other MMO I've played. Heck, a group of us knocked out 4 missions inside of 30 minutes, each w/ different tilesets, monsters, and quest objectives, and we weren't moving fast. I found Waterworks to be very fun every time I've played, because each time I was w/ a different group that reacted differently to what was going on. If a quest is too easy, just raise the difficulty.
Does the game have months of replayability and immersion, IMO? I'd have to say no. I think it's a "3 month and out" game, but there's alot about this game I do like and may come back to it w/ minimum upgrades. I mentioned I wasn't a fan of long transportation times; I'm also not a big fan of crafts, although I had fun w/ WoW's craft system up til the artisan level, when I had to spend 2 weeks trying to buy/beg/steal/grind for hours to collect what I needed to succeed, then finding out i needed to get even more stuff. Not fun, man. Thanks to WoW, whenever I even see a turtle in real life I get this sudden compulsion to skin the hell out of it. You WoWers will understand what I mean.
For the OP: Kudos for having fun in the game; unfortunately, the social experiences and "inside jokes" that your group finds funny at the time doesn't resonate well when told to others. it's like trying to share a personal joke w/ someone else. They may laugh or chuckle, but inside they're trying to get the joke. Happens to darn near everyone.
The intelligent phrase was unfortunate, but hey, it happens. BTW, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the hardcore gamer. If I didn't have a job and other stuff to keep me busy, I might be writing some of the more critical stuff about DDO, because at the end of the day, there is very little content that would appeal to one. I'm not being an absolutist, and I'm definitely not telling the Hardcore community what they like and don't like. If there's a crack or an exploit in a game to be had, the hardcore gamer will find it so the devs can plug the hole and make it a better game. Not only do they have to be "intelligent", but they are also "dedicated". And a little insane, but in a good way.
The counterpoint for those who don't like the game is valid as well. If DDO does well (and I hope it does) it will most likely succeed as a niche game made up mainly of casual gamers and a smaller amount of hardcore fans sticking around to help out. I foresee the game having a good start, but falling off and stabilizing in about 3 months or so. It won't be WoW, but it won't be Matrix Online either (fingers crossed).
Just my 2 cents.
Ah Ken i've played the Beta and it's no more complicated than any D&D game i've ever played. It's a real-time mmorpg affair, obviously theres a lot of mouse clicking now but hey that isn't exactly complicated. Character creation is the same as like NWN and i'd assume PnP (can't say i've ever played PnP before admittedly, doesn't seem common here in Oz).
Might i add complicated isn't that bad, there should at least be some learning curve with a game otherwise i doubt it'll hold your attention very long.
Omg it's true, this is the end of my post :O
Sorry but for me.. I found the quests to be extremely repetative. It seemed to me that the just took several quests and basically rehashed them or added to the level you of mob you have to fight.
I really had problems with the feeling of not being in a community. No sense of any kind of world at all. Just this city you will never get out of.
To each his own i guess. I played DnD as a teen and was really looking forward to this.. but DnD aside, the actual game was not much fun for me.