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GW2, does the current financial system work as expected?

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  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by PioneerStew
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by sumdumguy1
    Originally posted by PioneerStew

    The transmutation thing is indeed kind of annoying, but it doesn't work exactly how you described. And indeed it's actually better than the old system once you understand it (except for the fact that you could sometimes randomly get transmutation stones as a drop in the past. Though maybe they'll do the same w/ charges in the future).

    When you buy a skin off the store it isn't unlocked yet. You get an item mailed to you. You then can choose when you want to apply it, and what item you want to apply it to. So if you want specific stats, u can then craft / buy an exotic (or w/e) with the stats you want, and THEN apply the skin.

    The transmutation charges literally work like transmute stones. The difference is that you now have all your unlocked skins 'stored' to use whenever. You don't have to buy a new weapon with a skin you want every time you want to transmute. It's just saved in your wardrobe tab for future use. You still have to transmute to apply the skin (just like u needed to use the stones when the game first launched), but you can reapply that same skin (regardless of where it came from) as many times as you have charges.

    You can also (just like the rest of the shop) still use in-game currency to buy charges. And making money in this game is really not that hard (I played for a day yesterday, first time in about a year, and I made 20g without even really trying).

    Which is a far, far worse system than the straight forward costume slots in most other mmo's.  

    Yes, it's annoying to have to spend money on a game. However they need money to exist.

    That said, while it would be nice to just have costume slots, at the same time you don't have to spend any actual money to get these items. Which is a feature no other games really have atm. Most games (including the top F2P ones) have little-no customization that you can get without spending real money.

    GW2 on other hand gives you the option to do either. Which, personally I'd rather be able to use ingame gold to do. The game practically throws money at you, it's really not that hard to afford most of these things.

    This is the third time I've stated this: -

    No, that's not what is annoying about it.  As I said before it actually acts a disincentive to buy cosmetic items because it makes the entire process a chore rather than something that is fun.  

    If they just had straight-forward costume slots then I would happily buy cosmetic items off their cs, but with the current system I simply can't be bothered.  

    I guess if you are trying to play dress-up, then yes.

    if you just want your gear to look cool, then not really. I've bought a few skins (using in-game gold), and I don't really feel the need to constantly change them.

    Again, with how easily obtainable the majority of things are in this game, is it really that hard to have multiple sets of gear? You only really have to apply them once (unless you want to dual-wield, in which case twice). Or, if u want to apply it to multiple characters, transmute stones aren't really that expensive. You can get the stats you want just by running dungeons, or crafting.

    The ones that really get hurt by this, are probably the low-levels, who want to play around w/ transmuting gear. In that case, I could agree with you. While it's not really difficult to get to 80 in this game, it isn't very efficient (anymore) to transmute lower lvl gear.

    Once you get to 80, though, that all changes. Getting currency is ridiculously fast if you are actually playing the game (logged in for the first time in almost a year the other day, and already made over 20g).

    - The system is different, but I don't see how it's a disincentive unless you are trying to re-apply skins to the same gear over and over. Which you don't have to do.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by flizzer
    The hate for GW2 among the "hardcore"  group is strong.  They are annoyed it is not a game for them.  Whether he misread the article intentionally or not, of course, I don't know; I do know for some any chance to get a crack or two in at GW2 will be taken.  This is obviously a successful game with lots of satisfied players.  This does not mean MMORPG will not continue to have thread about how horrible the game is or about the imminent demise of the game. 

    Agreed, though I'm not sure how right you are on that last part ;p

  • goemoegoemoe Member UncommonPosts: 290

    They were actively trying something new and after some initial success they have to see, it does not work out. If they have to lay off people, the hopefully begin at the top. :)

  • GaleOmGaleOm Member UncommonPosts: 28
    so, we getting free updates every two weeks because ANet got financial trouble, interesting.
  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    I'm a bit puzzled now.

    I didn't see Anet agreeing that they are financially underperforming.

    Every other company is having big layoffs and Anet is still hiring people instead and you point that out as something negative.

     

    Is your post meant to be ironic and we just didn't get it?

    Well, all those companies with big layoffs are obviously making enough money they can afford the severance packages.

    While Arenanet is losing so much money they are desperately hiring lots of extra employees in an attempt to keep from going under, which is pretty standard business practice.

    It makes more sense when you think about it that way.

    And they have seven million copies sold right..... image

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • MeowheadMeowhead Member UncommonPosts: 3,716
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad

    And they have seven million copies sold right..... image

    A lot of websites and people picked up on that erroneous report!  I'll admit I make mistakes occasionally. 

    At least Arenanet came out and said 'Hey, that's not actually right'!  Helpful and honest of them. :3

    It's only about 4.5 million verified copies they've mentioned, it might be more, but 4.5 million is what has been specifically pointed out by the actual companies involved.

    4.5 million probably spells horrible failure, if only they had managed to sell those 2.5 million extra copies so they wouldn't have to keep hiring new people. :c

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by BailoPan15
    Other than server equipment and and wages, they don't really have that many money to spend on. They're not advertising as WildStar and TESO but its to be expected. You rarely see 2 year old games advertising. Plus yeah they are getting a decent boost from China. The game is just fine. I'm yet to hear about layoffs or shit like that. Infact they are hiring. 

    LOL, they still advertise. My Youtube is currently full of GW2 ads - because I've been playing it again and I've been googling some stuff over the last few days.

    So Google thinks that since I'm googling how to do certain things in the game I clearly must not own the game yet. GG Google, you're a real clever one!

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Originally posted by Loke666

    They did sell a huge amount of games in China recently and even if they get a lot less from that it should still have put in a healthy sum to ANET.

    As for guessing the expansion or new campaigns release I just wouldn't, with the first game they released 2 huge campaigns with just 6 months between them and we have no clue whatsoever how far their work have come now.

    GW2 do get less for each player than Wow but so far they have increased personal, not fired people unlike certain other companies so I wouldn't worry too much about the finances. There is no way NC soft would allow then to increase the workforce if they were losing money.

    image

    enough said





  • HomituHomitu Member UncommonPosts: 2,030
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    I'm a bit puzzled now.

    I didn't see Anet agreeing that they are financially underperforming.

    Every other company is having big layoffs and Anet is still hiring people instead and you point that out as something negative.

     

    Is your post meant to be ironic and we just didn't get it?

    I'm honestly not sure the OP read his own link, as he claimed the exact opposite of what was stated in the article at least twice.  It wouldn't be the first time his reading comprehension has been called into question on this site.  I had just assumed he was a non-native English speaker for a while.   

  • gothagotha Member UncommonPosts: 1,074
    To be fair Anet runs with a core team and then a rather large rotating door of contractors.  I think the contractors have to wait a few months between recontracting also.  This leads to lots of turn over,  also lets you downsize your team without many people catching on.
  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad

    And they have seven million copies sold right..... image

    A lot of websites and people picked up on that erroneous report!  I'll admit I make mistakes occasionally. 

    At least Arenanet came out and said 'Hey, that's not actually right'!  Helpful and honest of them. :3

    It's only about 4.5 million verified copies they've mentioned, it might be more, but 4.5 million is what has been specifically pointed out by the actual companies involved.

    4.5 million probably spells horrible failure, if only they had managed to sell those 2.5 million extra copies so they wouldn't have to keep hiring new people. :c

    I couldn't resist the chance to poke. It has sold well.  I am a well-known critic of the game, and I can admit that. I would like to see this model succeed with a cash shop like the one they have. I may not like the game mechanics of GW2, but I can appreciate the payment model and hope that it does prove to be sustainable. Maybe then some other developers will take this route. Only time will tell.

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad

    And they have seven million copies sold right..... image

    A lot of websites and people picked up on that erroneous report!  I'll admit I make mistakes occasionally. 

    At least Arenanet came out and said 'Hey, that's not actually right'!  Helpful and honest of them. :3

    It's only about 4.5 million verified copies they've mentioned, it might be more, but 4.5 million is what has been specifically pointed out by the actual companies involved.

    4.5 million probably spells horrible failure, if only they had managed to sell those 2.5 million extra copies so they wouldn't have to keep hiring new people. :c

    I couldn't resist the chance to poke. It has sold well.  I am a well-known critic of the game, and I can admit that. I would like to see this model succeed with a cash shop like the one they have. I may not like the game mechanics of GW2, but I can appreciate the payment model and hope that it does prove to be sustainable. Maybe then some other developers will take this route. Only time will tell.

    Well, the prices for gems (store currency) on the auction house seem fairly reasonable to me. So some people must be pumping money into the game (to convert it into in game currency).

    I also picked up some account upgrades and an armor skin after getting back into GW2 recently. All in all I don't think they're doing that bad.

    The first Guild Wars game must've given them a pretty good idea how sustainable the model would be.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • KalferKalfer Member Posts: 779
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    I found this article from a few months back on eurogamer.

     

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

     

    and while the game is still running, people at NC soft agree the game is underperforming financially after the initial release.   

     

    Sure there is a payed expansion pack upcomming, which will sell big, but its not even announced yet, so my best bet is a late 2015 release. Their current shop items do not sell well,  real money exchange slowly drops in numbers. They are selling story parts now to people that havent logged in timely...  Indicating they broke their promise of free content updates a lttle..

     

    with an expansion pack so far away, it just got me wondering how they want to make money to pay their current bills, after all they still have 350 people working on the game...

     

    I assumed the game was doing good. I see more poeple than ever in WvW, PvP and PvE. I cannot really see the picture you are describing. 

     

    I had no idea GW2 was the fastest selling MMO ever. I assume this record was beaten by Wildstar and ESO though, right? New games always seems to beat that record!

     

     

    Also, how do you know if the cash shop items are not selling well? I am really interested. Is most people just getting them for free or buying them? And as far as I can see the real money exchange exchange seems to have been stable. In over a year at least it seems to have flucturered between 7g and 10g, which seems amazingly stable to me? Maybe you are refering to something else:

     

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad

    And they have seven million copies sold right..... image

    A lot of websites and people picked up on that erroneous report!  I'll admit I make mistakes occasionally. 

    At least Arenanet came out and said 'Hey, that's not actually right'!  Helpful and honest of them. :3

    It's only about 4.5 million verified copies they've mentioned, it might be more, but 4.5 million is what has been specifically pointed out by the actual companies involved.

    4.5 million probably spells horrible failure, if only they had managed to sell those 2.5 million extra copies so they wouldn't have to keep hiring new people. :c

    I couldn't resist the chance to poke. It has sold well.  I am a well-known critic of the game, and I can admit that. I would like to see this model succeed with a cash shop like the one they have. I may not like the game mechanics of GW2, but I can appreciate the payment model and hope that it does prove to be sustainable. Maybe then some other developers will take this route. Only time will tell.

    I can agree with this ^

    I don't like all the mechanics either, but I do think the game has done more things right than it has done wrong. And is certainly not the failure a lot of people (on this site at least) try to make it out to be.

    I do hope that, if they aren't able to improve / fix the features that bug a lot of us; that they can at least demonstrate to other developers that you can implement fairly non-intrusive cash shop models that don't rely on gating off gameplay elements to be sustainable. I would love to see more games adopt this 'customization'-focused cash shop model, with option to convert from in-game currency. Over paying for basic features, etc. Or F2P with the hidden agenda of trying to force a sub.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by gotha
    To be fair Anet runs with a core team and then a rather large rotating door of contractors.  I think the contractors have to wait a few months between recontracting also.  This leads to lots of turn over,  also lets you downsize your team without many people catching on.

    Welcome to game development. Nearly every studio operates this way.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by Kalfer

    I had no idea GW2 was the fastest selling MMO ever. I assume this record was beaten by Wildstar and ESO though, right? New games always seems to beat that record!

    WS or ESO need to sell more than 3 million copies in less than 9 months to break the GW2 record

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/08/18/guild-wars-2-fastest-selling-western-mmo-of-all-time-looks-to-china/

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    I'd say it's working as intended. The entire cash shop is based around not so much P2W, but P2Shortcut. With the rate of inflation versus the amount of rewards you can earn in the same time in game, it's been proven that working at a minimum wage job and then turning the cash into gold is a much quicker way to advance in GW2. You can farm literally hundreds of gold by using the cash shop in the same time it would take you to earn a couple of dozen as an actual player playing the game the way it was meant to be played. It's a huge incentive for new players, returning players, etc. to spend money to "catch up" to people who have been playing since release. I think it makes them a pretty penny.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • GoldenxGoldenx Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by gotha
    To be fair Anet runs with a core team and then a rather large rotating door of contractors.  I think the contractors have to wait a few months between recontracting also.  This leads to lots of turn over,  also lets you downsize your team without many people catching on.

    Welcome to game development. Nearly every studio operates this way.

    You could apply that to numerous trades these days... we live in a down-sizing, out-sourcing, contract-work world.  People tolerate it because they have to, not because they want to.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628

    The way they marketed their pay model pre launch made it sound like they were going to prove you can run a quality mmo off a box price and no subs.
    The reality is what they did was basically what f2p games already do minus the box price. /golfclap

  • GoldenxGoldenx Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    The way they marketed their pay model pre launch made it sound like they were going to prove you can run a quality mmo off a box price and no subs.
    The reality is what they did was basically what f2p games already do minus the box price. /golfclap

    Based on this alone, they succeeded.  No subs check.  Box price check.  Quality MMO check.  

     

    Do you really think WoW is any different in their cash shop?  And like they have a sub too.  AND, based on their revenue, should be able to produce 1000 fold more than they do.  You bash F2P but still accept the highway robbery that is WoW because it's a subscription.  Take that $15 a month and break it out into a fee to use bags, a fee to have extra action bars, and a fee to use addons/macros in a cash shop and you'd scream bloody murder.  Take the blind-fold off for once and realize that you are paying for the same damn thing with a subscription... monthly, whether you actually play or not.  The difference is, you have a choice to pay it or not, with WoW it's all or nothing... and they still nickel and dime you over things F2P games give you for free.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    The way they marketed their pay model pre launch made it sound like they were going to prove you can run a quality mmo off a box price and no subs.
    The reality is what they did was basically what f2p games already do minus the box price. /golfclap

    Yea, Anet are masters of deception. Or maybe rather misdirection. Deception is too negative a word, I don't think that's justified. I don't think the did it maliciously (make a f2p style/quality game then charge a box fee) to the players, but it certainly didn't turn out in favor of the players at this point.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • KalferKalfer Member Posts: 779
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    The way they marketed their pay model pre launch made it sound like they were going to prove you can run a quality mmo off a box price and no subs.
    The reality is what they did was basically what f2p games already do minus the box price. /golfclap

    I feel like you are underselling everything they have accomplishment over the last two years with such a massive team of 350 people rolling out significant content releases every 14th day. It seems to me to be larger in scope than anything else I have seen added to a game. 

     

     

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628


    Originally posted by Kalfer

    Originally posted by Foomerang The way they marketed their pay model pre launch made it sound like they were going to prove you can run a quality mmo off a box price and no subs. The reality is what they did was basically what f2p games already do minus the box price. /golfclap
    I feel like you are underselling everything they have accomplishment over the last two years with such a massive team of 350 people rolling out significant content releases every 14th day. It seems to me to be larger in scope than anything else I have seen added to a game. 

    No, what Im saying is that for over two years before the game launched, their marketing strategy was to demonize subs and claim that they could run a quality mmo off of the box price. Then the "gem shop" slowly made its appearance and now we are seeing that it was setup like a f2p game all along. Except for the fact that f2p had already been proven to be successful at running an mmo for years before gw2 launched. So all they really did was slap a box price on top of an already profitable and long proven business model. All the while trying to sell us on the idea that they were shaking up the system.

    They sold most aspects of their game this way. Misdirection and demonizing whatever was in other games that they didnt have or do.

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    I'd say it's working as intended. The entire cash shop is based around not so much P2W, but P2Shortcut. With the rate of inflation versus the amount of rewards you can earn in the same time in game, it's been proven that working at a minimum wage job and then turning the cash into gold is a much quicker way to advance in GW2. You can farm literally hundreds of gold by using the cash shop in the same time it would take you to earn a couple of dozen as an actual player playing the game the way it was meant to be played. It's a huge incentive for new players, returning players, etc. to spend money to "catch up" to people who have been playing since release. I think it makes them a pretty penny.

    Shortcut what exactly? By the time you hit 80 on a character, unless you've spent every single dime you've made in game, you'll have enough gold and laurels to get yourself a full set of exotics and ascended jewelry. If you've done the various types of WvW for leveling (edge of the mists is a wonderful xp train) you'll have enough badges to get a full set of exotic armor+weapons and have enough laurels to get ascended jewelry.

    Ascended Armor is marginally better at best, and there isn't really a reason to get it, unless you are just really wanting to be a completionist. The Legendary Weapons aren't statistically better either, but rather they have a unique look and are a potential future proof weapon if ANet adds another tier of weapons that are better that the current exotics.

    There isn't a reason to spend a single dime in the Cash Shop aside from cosmetics or to unlock things like additional character slots, etc. Hell, unless you're saving to buy a legendary weapon, there's little reason to have more than two hundred gold on hand, unless you want to buy the expensive stuff off the AH which is nothing but cosmetic anyhow.

    There isn't really anything to "catch up" to.

  • LokbergLokberg Member Posts: 315
    Originally posted by Kaneth
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    I'd say it's working as intended. The entire cash shop is based around not so much P2W, but P2Shortcut. With the rate of inflation versus the amount of rewards you can earn in the same time in game, it's been proven that working at a minimum wage job and then turning the cash into gold is a much quicker way to advance in GW2. You can farm literally hundreds of gold by using the cash shop in the same time it would take you to earn a couple of dozen as an actual player playing the game the way it was meant to be played. It's a huge incentive for new players, returning players, etc. to spend money to "catch up" to people who have been playing since release. I think it makes them a pretty penny.

    Shortcut what exactly? By the time you hit 80 on a character, unless you've spent every single dime you've made in game, you'll have enough gold and laurels to get yourself a full set of exotics and ascended jewelry. If you've done the various types of WvW for leveling (edge of the mists is a wonderful xp train) you'll have enough badges to get a full set of exotic armor+weapons and have enough laurels to get ascended jewelry.

    Ascended Armor is marginally better at best, and there isn't really a reason to get it, unless you are just really wanting to be a completionist. The Legendary Weapons aren't statistically better either, but rather they have a unique look and are a potential future proof weapon if ANet adds another tier of weapons that are better that the current exotics.

    There isn't a reason to spend a single dime in the Cash Shop aside from cosmetics or to unlock things like additional character slots, etc. Hell, unless you're saving to buy a legendary weapon, there's little reason to have more than two hundred gold on hand, unless you want to buy the expensive stuff off the AH which is nothing but cosmetic anyhow.

    There isn't really anything to "catch up" to.

    Not really right there mate.

    They are better then exotic on the same level as ascended weapons and you could say they are better then them aswell since you can switch stats at will out of combat on them if for some reason you want to change your stats around.

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