Just as I was thinking about picking up ESO or at least waiting until it went on sale a bit...I read this. I know in any game the players will exploit things or manipulate systems to gain..."progress" faster or whatever. But this is just sad. Everything I read about ESO seems so sad. I was going to pick it up eventually to just quest and explore the world casually since there seems to be no true "endgame" in the traditional sense(which is what I think I need these days). I got Wildstar instead of ESO and on the whole Wildstar is a much MUCH better game IMO...but at max level, you either grind out gear progression which leads to raiding, or PvP. I have come to the realization, that I don't want either. I just want to play casually and enjoy the virtual world. Maybe a dip back into GW2 is in order. I dont know.
But this makes me upset to see that players are still stupid enough to bork a game this much. Shame on the devs for not catching this in supposed QA, shame on players for exploiting it.
The Emperor fiasco has basically completely ruined PvP in ESO. It's just another example of PvP developers trying to get too fancy and missing the point of what PvP should be based around: actual PvP, not something else.
I like how NOWHERE in your "article" do you mention the players who actually used strategy/teamplay and worked their asses off to obtain the title before and even sometimes during the "flipping" that you speak of.
Should you just tell those people to go eat balls too????
It's not going to make me quit, nor do I think sensible players who earned would have a hard time understanding why it would be reset... but
BUT.......
I just cant believe you can get away with a clearly one-sided "article"of trite shit on this website and have it make the front page......
This game gets enough troll press. In the future, please learn to write something less subjective.
I didn't have a problem with the article because I play the game, know the issue, and what OP was trying to say, even though he did omit some information. No problem for me because I know what he is talking about takes place in some backwoods AvA server, in some dark corner of the game where there are no other players. I know this issue is minor on the gameplay level, but bigger to some on the morality level. This is were the discussion lies.
After six pages I see that the information OP left out (intentionally or assumed as understood) has been misleading. I'm not ready to say he was intentionally trolling, but his omissions and their result has lead the discussion down that road. Which is a shame because there was a good conversation to have here.
Everyone who supports this is just a baddie. You people are hateful and jealous of what people work hard to earn. As if just logging on and being around flipping keeps gets you emperor. I can tell how many are just running their mouths, what they are saying isn't pvp reality. You HAVE to be top score to earn emperor. It IS NOT just given willy-nilly. I swear the mmorpg writers are idiots.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing. PS3
He left out the fact that he was a ten second emperor >_>. Guy gets title. Steps Down. Comes on MMorpg.com throwing it around for his opinion. I'm a 19 day emperor and I say the system is fine as is. ^_^
When The Elder Scrolls Onlinewas in its Pre-Launch phase, one of the aspects that Zenimax used as a major selling point was the ability to be Emperor. They discussed it as being this prestigious title, which will take a lot of time and effort to earn. Once you’ve earned it you’d be among the few who have accomplished such a feat.
I don't play TESO but alot of time and effort made me laugh actually.
The game released in April so it is now 3-4 months old, from reading the article it seems there are allready alot of people with emperor status or people that had emperor status. Is that ALOT of time and effort? When they claim such things it should at least take a year to get that title imo. Or maybe I'm just old fashioned but alot of time is not 3 months.
When The Elder Scrolls Onlinewas in its Pre-Launch phase, one of the aspects that Zenimax used as a major selling point was the ability to be Emperor. They discussed it as being this prestigious title, which will take a lot of time and effort to earn. Once you’ve earned it you’d be among the few who have accomplished such a feat.
I don't play TESO but alot of time and effort made me laugh actually.
The game released in April so it is now 3-4 months old, from reading the article it seems there are allready alot of people with emperor status or people that had emperor status. Is that ALOT of time and effort? When they claim such things it should at least take a year to get that title imo. Or maybe I'm just old fashioned but alot of time is not 3 months.
Dude, "a lot of time and effort" by modern MMO terms is like a month playing a few hours a week, lulz. To reach level 60 on my first toon in vanilla WoW I was at 22 days played. That's right 22 days which is 528 hours just to reach level cap, which took me 2 - 3 months, and back then with Ultima a such that was actually pretty fast.
I will say it again, modern MMO players have no interest in taking their time and it's destroying the genre.
Additionally, when WoW launched, it was the first big MMO to have such a fast leveling process. People chimed then that the month-to-cap was way too fast.
If you only keep your title until someone else takes it that seems fair to me. You would be guaranteed 90 days with the title even if you did nothing. And it would incentivise you to try to keep the title.
But if they don't put in a system like that its back to abusing the system.
"But when all three factions are doing it and not actually playing the game the way it was designed..."
That's incredibly naive and possibly the kind of narrow mindset developers had when they designed this system. People are people. They have very predictable drives. One is acquiring things. In ESO's design the Emperor title and passives are a thing which can be acquired. No-one should be surprised this is happening.
Really, why should anyone care that a bunch of designers intended the game to be played a different way? Players have what is in front of them - the game - and make the most of it.
Personally I think the fact that players from different factions came together in a PvP area and decided to just pass it around is delightful. Hands across the nation, unicorn kisses and all that.
Originally posted by Scot There are many things they could do, I would suggest that as each new Emperor gets his title, the last one in that campaign loses their's. .
Yep, as one Emperor gets the title and perks, skill line the previous Emperor loses theirs.
Originally posted by rodingo Why is it that everyone saw emperor flipping becoming an issue since way before launch except ZOS? Those devs at ZOS have always given me the impression they wear blinders when working.
More like rookies in every possible way. ZERO experience in Online Game Development.
Making single player RPG games is one thing. Making Online games is a totally different matter.
How can you say that considering the actual devs that created the game? It wasn't like it was Bethesda devs that designed it, many were MMO industry vets. Which is probably what it really boils down to, they designed MMO's in a different age, UO and DAOC... The difference in the communities is night and day. I'm not saying people didn't game the system back in the day, it was just to different degrees, most of those games had active GM's to which cut down on a lot of that exploiting.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by rodingo Why is it that everyone saw emperor flipping becoming an issue since way before launch except ZOS? Those devs at ZOS have always given me the impression they wear blinders when working.
More like rookies in every possible way. ZERO experience in Online Game Development.
Making single player RPG games is one thing. Making Online games is a totally different matter.
How can you say that considering the actual devs that created the game? It wasn't like it was Bethesda devs that designed it, many were MMO industry vets. Which is probably what it really boils down to, they designed MMO's in a different age, UO and DAOC... The difference in the communities is night and day. I'm not saying people didn't game the system back in the day, it was just to different degrees, most of those games had active GM's to which cut down on a lot of that exploiting.
The story of MMO's has been one where past mistakes were not learnt and solid innovation has not been passed on to future MMOs. How many MMOs have I played in where PvP and PvE were unbalanced? Too many for me to remember. Does every MMO now use a buddy system? No. So repetition of mistakes is what I have come to expect. Indeed from the devs point of view these were not always mistakes, they were the best answer to the issues they saw in front of them.
And as Distopia said the mentality of the players has changed, exploiting games is now a player run industry. These two factors have boxed MMOs into a corner.
The biggest issue with the PvP wasn't emperor flipping, it was that people could join multiple campaigns and just switch to the one where their side was winning. Have they fixed this?
Originally posted by rodingo Why is it that everyone saw emperor flipping becoming an issue since way before launch except ZOS? Those devs at ZOS have always given me the impression they wear blinders when working.
More like rookies in every possible way. ZERO experience in Online Game Development.
Making single player RPG games is one thing. Making Online games is a totally different matter.
How can you say that considering the actual devs that created the game? It wasn't like it was Bethesda devs that designed it, many were MMO industry vets. Which is probably what it really boils down to, they designed MMO's in a different age, UO and DAOC...
If they had actually designed TESO to be like DAoC, that criticism might hold water.
But TESO has almost nothing to do with TESO, and has way more to do with WoW and Skyrim than anything else.
It seems clear to me that this game was being designed by Firor, a veteran, who was CONSTANTLY at odds with publishers about what features to include, and they forced him to include features that undermined most of the features he tried to get in. He wanted public dungeons, publishers wanted instancing like WoW, so they made instanced dungeons and then just made them public, which is terrible. He wanted RvR with locked factions, they wanted you to be able to go anyway, so you end up with shitty campaign flipping and people fighting on the other teams.
Originally posted by rodingo Why is it that everyone saw emperor flipping becoming an issue since way before launch except ZOS? Those devs at ZOS have always given me the impression they wear blinders when working.
More like rookies in every possible way. ZERO experience in Online Game Development.
Making single player RPG games is one thing. Making Online games is a totally different matter.
How can you say that considering the actual devs that created the game? It wasn't like it was Bethesda devs that designed it, many were MMO industry vets. Which is probably what it really boils down to, they designed MMO's in a different age, UO and DAOC...
If they had actually designed TESO to be like DAoC, that criticism might hold water.
But TESO has almost nothing to do with TESO, and has way more to do with WoW and Skyrim than anything else.
It seems clear to me that this game was being designed by Firor, a veteran, who was CONSTANTLY at odds with publishers about what features to include, and they forced him to include features that undermined most of the features he tried to get in. He wanted public dungeons, publishers wanted instancing like WoW, so they made instanced dungeons and then just made them public, which is terrible. He wanted RvR with locked factions, they wanted you to be able to go anyway, so you end up with shitty campaign flipping and people fighting on the other teams.
Non ESO players say the darndest things about ESO. From the outside, they've created this image or conception of what they think ESO is or how they "remembered" it. Then they critique and make suggestions based on this imaginary game. Soon they have new issues about the imaginary issues.
Originally posted by rodingo Why is it that everyone saw emperor flipping becoming an issue since way before launch except ZOS? Those devs at ZOS have always given me the impression they wear blinders when working.
More like rookies in every possible way. ZERO experience in Online Game Development.
Making single player RPG games is one thing. Making Online games is a totally different matter.
How can you say that considering the actual devs that created the game? It wasn't like it was Bethesda devs that designed it, many were MMO industry vets. Which is probably what it really boils down to, they designed MMO's in a different age, UO and DAOC...
If they had actually designed TESO to be like DAoC, that criticism might hold water.
But TESO has almost nothing to do with TESO, and has way more to do with WoW and Skyrim than anything else.
It seems clear to me that this game was being designed by Firor, a veteran, who was CONSTANTLY at odds with publishers about what features to include, and they forced him to include features that undermined most of the features he tried to get in. He wanted public dungeons, publishers wanted instancing like WoW, so they made instanced dungeons and then just made them public, which is terrible. He wanted RvR with locked factions, they wanted you to be able to go anyway, so you end up with shitty campaign flipping and people fighting on the other teams.
Non ESO players say the darndest things about ESO. From the outside, they've created this image or conception of what they think ESO is or how they "remembered" it. Then they critique and make suggestions based on this imaginary game. Soon they have new issues about the imaginary issues.
It has become quite amusing.
Way to use almost 70 words to say nothing. You didn't refute any of the things I said.
The "public" dungeons are a problem. Campaign flipping is a problem. Lack of grouping (after removal of the group xp bonus) is a problem. The phasing is a problem. They're reasons I quit.
Originally posted by threefeet who is this, does this person work for this website? and if so, rants from employees shouldnt be spotlighted like theyre some big news story, especially from mmorpg.com. or do you like bread without butter. put this stuff where everyone else rants, in the deep dark corner of forums where few tread.
Look at the news today threefeet, you will find quite a few rants from employees.
Comments
Exactly. It's stupid that players have done this but they'll try something similar on any new system as well.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Sigh...
Just as I was thinking about picking up ESO or at least waiting until it went on sale a bit...I read this. I know in any game the players will exploit things or manipulate systems to gain..."progress" faster or whatever. But this is just sad. Everything I read about ESO seems so sad. I was going to pick it up eventually to just quest and explore the world casually since there seems to be no true "endgame" in the traditional sense(which is what I think I need these days). I got Wildstar instead of ESO and on the whole Wildstar is a much MUCH better game IMO...but at max level, you either grind out gear progression which leads to raiding, or PvP. I have come to the realization, that I don't want either. I just want to play casually and enjoy the virtual world. Maybe a dip back into GW2 is in order. I dont know.
But this makes me upset to see that players are still stupid enough to bork a game this much. Shame on the devs for not catching this in supposed QA, shame on players for exploiting it.
The Emperor fiasco has basically completely ruined PvP in ESO. It's just another example of PvP developers trying to get too fancy and missing the point of what PvP should be based around: actual PvP, not something else.
I didn't have a problem with the article because I play the game, know the issue, and what OP was trying to say, even though he did omit some information. No problem for me because I know what he is talking about takes place in some backwoods AvA server, in some dark corner of the game where there are no other players. I know this issue is minor on the gameplay level, but bigger to some on the morality level. This is were the discussion lies.
After six pages I see that the information OP left out (intentionally or assumed as understood) has been misleading. I'm not ready to say he was intentionally trolling, but his omissions and their result has lead the discussion down that road. Which is a shame because there was a good conversation to have here.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
When The Elder Scrolls Online was in its Pre-Launch phase, one of the aspects that Zenimax used as a major selling point was the ability to be Emperor. They discussed it as being this prestigious title, which will take a lot of time and effort to earn. Once you’ve earned it you’d be among the few who have accomplished such a feat.
I don't play TESO but alot of time and effort made me laugh actually.
The game released in April so it is now 3-4 months old, from reading the article it seems there are allready alot of people with emperor status or people that had emperor status. Is that ALOT of time and effort? When they claim such things it should at least take a year to get that title imo. Or maybe I'm just old fashioned but alot of time is not 3 months.
Dude, "a lot of time and effort" by modern MMO terms is like a month playing a few hours a week, lulz. To reach level 60 on my first toon in vanilla WoW I was at 22 days played. That's right 22 days which is 528 hours just to reach level cap, which took me 2 - 3 months, and back then with Ultima a such that was actually pretty fast.
I will say it again, modern MMO players have no interest in taking their time and it's destroying the genre.
Ten Second Emperors - what a great name for a new band.
If you only keep your title until someone else takes it that seems fair to me. You would be guaranteed 90 days with the title even if you did nothing. And it would incentivise you to try to keep the title.
But if they don't put in a system like that its back to abusing the system.
"But when all three factions are doing it and not actually playing the game the way it was designed..."
That's incredibly naive and possibly the kind of narrow mindset developers had when they designed this system. People are people. They have very predictable drives. One is acquiring things. In ESO's design the Emperor title and passives are a thing which can be acquired. No-one should be surprised this is happening.
Really, why should anyone care that a bunch of designers intended the game to be played a different way? Players have what is in front of them - the game - and make the most of it.
Personally I think the fact that players from different factions came together in a PvP area and decided to just pass it around is delightful. Hands across the nation, unicorn kisses and all that.
Juuust like everyone can become President... How did you get that notion from this column?
Yep, as one Emperor gets the title and perks, skill line the previous Emperor loses theirs.
There's a big difference between anyone becoming Emperor (or President for that matter) and everyone becoming Emperor.
Zenimax can fix this by ruling that only US citizens with clean criminal records can become ESO Emperor.
I bet tons of these emperors are foreigners and criminals and even a few might be foreign criminals.
If we make an exception, it should be for Moldovans. Everyone has a soft spot for them.
How can you say that considering the actual devs that created the game? It wasn't like it was Bethesda devs that designed it, many were MMO industry vets. Which is probably what it really boils down to, they designed MMO's in a different age, UO and DAOC... The difference in the communities is night and day. I'm not saying people didn't game the system back in the day, it was just to different degrees, most of those games had active GM's to which cut down on a lot of that exploiting.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The story of MMO's has been one where past mistakes were not learnt and solid innovation has not been passed on to future MMOs. How many MMOs have I played in where PvP and PvE were unbalanced? Too many for me to remember. Does every MMO now use a buddy system? No. So repetition of mistakes is what I have come to expect. Indeed from the devs point of view these were not always mistakes, they were the best answer to the issues they saw in front of them.
And as Distopia said the mentality of the players has changed, exploiting games is now a player run industry. These two factors have boxed MMOs into a corner.
If they had actually designed TESO to be like DAoC, that criticism might hold water.
But TESO has almost nothing to do with TESO, and has way more to do with WoW and Skyrim than anything else.
It seems clear to me that this game was being designed by Firor, a veteran, who was CONSTANTLY at odds with publishers about what features to include, and they forced him to include features that undermined most of the features he tried to get in. He wanted public dungeons, publishers wanted instancing like WoW, so they made instanced dungeons and then just made them public, which is terrible. He wanted RvR with locked factions, they wanted you to be able to go anyway, so you end up with shitty campaign flipping and people fighting on the other teams.
Non ESO players say the darndest things about ESO. From the outside, they've created this image or conception of what they think ESO is or how they "remembered" it. Then they critique and make suggestions based on this imaginary game. Soon they have new issues about the imaginary issues.
It has become quite amusing.
Way to use almost 70 words to say nothing. You didn't refute any of the things I said.
The "public" dungeons are a problem. Campaign flipping is a problem. Lack of grouping (after removal of the group xp bonus) is a problem. The phasing is a problem. They're reasons I quit.
Look at the news today threefeet, you will find quite a few rants from employees.