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should Turbine change the name of DDO?
DeadDOG
Member UncommonPosts: 191
should they take the D&D off there game seeing that DDO is not D&D?
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Explain to me why you think it is not D&D, since the game is based off 3.5 Rules, takes place in a D&D realm, and is fully sponserd by Wizards of the Coast the owners of the D&D name.
So why do you think it is not D&D? Im guessing due to the changes from the rules to make the game fit into an online MMORPG. But please explian your position your poll is rather vauge....................
He he explained his postion then it would be a bais poll...
I put not sure...
It's Not D&D... and it's not a typical MMO... IMO it's like 80% D&D (unless you want to count missing classes) and 60% typical MMO.
I realize it is impossible to have a 100% acurate D&D game online. If PnP D&D were a steak... DDO would be a hamburger... both are made from the same stuff... hamburgers are just adapted to a wider group of people.
I hope it works out well for turbine... However, I fear upon release half the people will upset at changes made to the D&D rules... and the other half will be upset and the difference it has from a typical MMO.
Although "real" DnD on-line would just be a talk program with some maps, it's based on the game and corresponding rules and tries to stay close to it (or so I hope).
So I shouldn't know why it shouldn't be called as such?
Cast your vote: The importance of character customisation
IMHO if Turbine had not used D&D as the theme and layout for this game and made their own game universe, this would be a huge hit. Here is why:
1. D&d license costs alot of mullah$$$
2. The D&D fans wouldn't be upset at the necessary changes and the Ebberon setting.
3. MMO fans who didn't like the 3.5 ruleset wouldn't be dissapointed about the theme.
Turbine's vision is great. They are putting much effort in this game. It will succeed but will probably be a niche game. I plan to buy it and maybe preorder.
Anybody with half a brain saw this coming. No matter who was developing it, no matter how close to DnD it was, people would complain. Developers can never make the hardcore DnD fans happy since it's difficult to translate it to a complete different medium, which I guess most fail to see.
Nahhh, it's more than possible.
Problem is they came at DDO with a very limited perspective of what D&D _is_ and most CRPG developers haven't got a clue when it comes to RPGs, which is why ALL MMOs suffer The Suck Effect in comparison. It needs a complete paradigm shift in development and vision to provide something approximating the tabletop atmosphere - but it's possible.
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If it was just like D&D, it would consist of 7 webcams showing your nerdy companions, a randomize button for your dice, and a text box for your RPing. Thank God it isnt EXACTLY like D&D.
MMO gamers lashing out at tabletop RPGs for being nerdy?
Glass houses, stones?
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How would you know? No one has ever tried. I have stated numerous times why this game is decidedly NOT D&D and will not bore the people that have had to read it a hundred times by making them read it one hundred and one times.
Turbine did not make changes because things would translate well, they made changes to make the game appeal to more people. I have no problem with this in and of itself, except don't lie to people. If that's what you're going to do say that's what you're going to do. Don't say you won't do that, and then do it, which is what Turbine has done.
Some of the things you claim is dificult to translate have been done beautifully in other games. So, it may be difficult for the developers at Turbine, but other companies have pulled it off.
Considering it is the only ACTION game with a D&D title, it should have a MAJOR design distinction, both as a warning to the existing fanbase and to the peoples who never give attention to D&D in the past. (except maybe Tower of Doom, but Tower of Doom is merey a $0,25 to try and I doesn't even recall if they have a logo at all, it was acceptable in the circumstances)
Could be just a different color, another word, something, to pinpoint, it is not a pure D&D product. The fact WotC doesn't mind is not enough to just jump and destroy a franchise 30 years of work. A D&D fans expect something...and ACTION game, ala Sonic, is not what they expect!
If as a fan I expect MANY aspects, they work on those aspects for 30 years and you suddenly stop respecting that, well, you confuse me and you destroy my motivation to give a blind trust to the game. DragonShard for example work the logo fine. The warning was HEAVY, I never buy it. I never consider trying it. It is not for me. DDO is trying to lure many fans, and disappointed fans means harm for the franchise. Not that Turbines care, they will prolly never work again on the franchise.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Are you saying you never did any fighting or traversing dangerous terrain in DnD? If your so opposed to adapting those things into real-time format then why play a computer game?
Also, remember that there have been alot of games stapeled DnD that had a lot less to do with the PnP than DDO so your comment is as irrelevant as it is unfounded.
Are you saying you never did any fighting or traversing dangerous terrain in DnD? If your so opposed to adapting those things into real-time format then why play a computer game?
Also, remember that there have been alot of games stapeled DnD that had a lot less to do with the PnP than DDO so your comment is as irrelevant as it is unfounded.
Fighting was done in Game Based Turn or a real time variation of it. ALWAYS. Never did I have to dodge for REAL. Never did I have to uses my reflexs as a human been before.
If they want to make an action game, they should work with action franchise, not a franchise that cater to peoples who are not using reflexs.
I have a fairly good idea of what it involves to make a game on computer, and I more than question their decisions on the Design/Marketing level, I flame them.
D&D for me was about either finding a solution, mind tickle...or socialising with friends.
As to the "other games" with a D&D label that have less to do, name me one. Tower of Doom? Cost $0,25. DragonShard? The logo is reworked just fine and they don't claim otherwise. A game of THAT scope with the D&D label and trying to trap many fans, I am sorry, but they are hurting the franchise.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
As you can see your complaints -are- unfounded. The only thing you have left to complain about is your overinflated-expectations.
How would I know? HAHA. It happens all the time like when books are made into movies. THING NEVER TRANSLATE AND PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS UNHAPPY. "The book was better."
Well, keeping the monster in view, in reach is extremely problematic for me. I just doesn't happen to have any coordination. No D&D game, not even on the Xbox ever ask me such coordination.
Jumping on the roof of 10 thingy to cross a rift is also problematic. Again, no D&D games, not even on the Xbox ever ask me that type of things.
This is not D&D. This is Sonic super adventure and I think they should label something on it, not REAL D&D like they are labelling atm.
Dragonshard put a label: Real time strategy! It is clear. I SEE THE DIFFERENCE. I doesn't see the logo difference between DDO and D&D, they have to make it VISIBLE for folks who kinda lack on such nuance. Dragonshard is very clear, subtitle says everything. Real time strategy. Nobody can complains from there. DDO: Real time action, I would stop complaining. But no, they goes with REAL D&D! Damn it.
Other than that, you are blinded because YOU LIKED the game. It has many nice aspects, but it is not, never was, never would be, D&D. They should be honest and protective of the franchise rather than selfish and trying to gain every advantage they can without any further consideration. Not anymore D&D than Ketchup is tomatos.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
[b][quote]How would I know? HAHA. It happens all the time like when books are made into movies. THING NEVER TRANSLATE AND PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS UNHAPPY. "The book was better."[/b][/quote]
It usually is.
And the film Sin City showed you can actually take an original source NOT screw with it and make something fantastic. Hopefully people are learning lessons from that.
Neverwinter is the closest thing to an actual D&D translation to machine out there.
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Some things don't translate well from one medium to another, and some things do. The best Turbine could hope for is capturing the spirit of D&D. Does the game do that? That's the debate. IMO, I think they're close.
Grimachu, I agree w/ your Sin City remark, but keep in mind that's the exception that shouldn't be the rule. Frank Miller's story translated to screen well, but alot of books don't when you think about it. Also, LOTR remains at the forefront of many good movies that captured the spirit of the books they were loosely translated from. It's possible, just not easy to do.
Some people have very different ideas of what the 'spirit of D&D' should be.
TT roleplaying games have come a loooooong way in 30 years from their wargame/skirmish roots.
From what I have seen (and I'm not in beta) DDO captures am extremely narrow definition of what D&D is, pretty much limited to the 'classic' dungeon delve.
The textual 'Dungeonmaster' adding descriptions and pointers to rooms is an interesting take but really what it seems they're trying to replicate is a largely outmoded and nostalgic take on D&D and RPGs that simply isn't up to date (though a lot of people look back fondly on it).
It's strange that RPGs, which encompass the ability to do ANYTHING, bounded only by the setting and your imagination should have such a restrictive interpretation in an MMO of the original D&D.
In one respect it has it right though, RPGs are, at base, about cooperation, not competition and with no PvP DDO at least captures that aspect.
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That's a fair question Ian, and thanks for answering part of it, Grim. the other part is that it sounds kinda derivative and boorish when you say it. That, and they'd be undercutting themselves even more, marketing-wise. I figure they were either "all in" or "all out". I don't know, though. I'd have to say that they are trying to make an online game that's as close to it as anyone can come. Dungeon Master voice, dungeon crawls that flow one into another, emphasis on voicechat to capture the "tabletop" feeling, and the 20 sider dice rolls to tell me if I hit or not, and incorporating as much of the 3.5 ruleset as possible. Maybe they could do more, but I'm at least satisfied w/ what they've done so far.
My take on it is that they can come close but as a veteran PnP RPGer, I can't see how they can ever be "real" D&D in a literal sense. I completely agree if that's what they're trying to sell, I'm not buying. However, after playing the beta, I have to say I like it anyway. But that's for another debate.
They advertise the game as follows:
"Real Combat. Real Danger. Real DnD."
They have hack'n'slash COMBAT in REAL-time.
They have DANGERS you have to travers in a REAL way, not just roll for it.
Underlying all action there is the REAL DnD system (with mild modifications aproved by WotC).
.... Their advertising is right on the spot.
Are you crazy? Do you really think that DDo is the same as the PnP game? The first part of your post says it all... PnP DnD is not real time action. This is not, not will it ever be "REAL" DnD. Period.
After thought... Not only is DDO real time, which is not DnD, but they, Turbine, did not put in all of the 'Real" DnD... Like all of the races... No Half Elves, no Half Orcs... They butchered the Warforged... As far as classes, no Druid or Monk on release... Yes, they say they will add Druids and Monks later... Probably in an expansion that everyone will have to pay for and which will be at least 6 months later or maybe even a year later... I could go on and on...