Because I'm an old school gamer. I like MMORPGs, but only those where players are on an equal level.
WIth games like AA, you either have to pay far more than on a subscription game, or you end up with a botched game where everything is a chore unless you pay money.
I can't congratulate players on anything they achieved in that game, because they might have bought their way there.
If I beat players in PvP, is it because I spent money, or because I'm better? If players beat me in PvP, is it because they're good, or because they spent more money?
Not to mention that most "free to play" games end up being far more expensive for the users than subscription games.
I don't hate AA, I just won't play it, because I think that my options there are horrible:
a) have a game that quickly turns everything into a chore
b) spend huge amount of money
For that money I rather buy some complete AAA games or a dozen good indie games.
I mean, with payment systems such as in AA, it's as... For example, imagine there is an advertisment for an awesome movie. A new Lord of the Rings, Alien, Titanic, whatever you fancy. And it's free! You go into the cinema and start watching,.
The first 20 minutes are for for free, and then suddenly the sound gets quieter and quieter until you really can't hear anything. Except if you pay 2$. Well, you are already here and the movie looked promising, so you pay that, and you get the sound back.
Five minutes later, some people with huge hats with the cinemas logo sit in front of you. You pay them 5$ to take off the hats.
Five minutes later, people start throwing popcorn at you, you pay 10$ for them to stop.
Five minutes later, the screen suddenly goes black for you. You pay 30$ to be able to see the movie again.
Five minutes later, the guy sitting on the very side of your row of seats pays 200$. They slap a huge armchair right in front of you and let him sit there.
That is how 90% of all free to play MMORPGs work. That's why I hate that system.
I mean, with payment systems such as in AA, it's as... For example, imagine there is an advertisment for an awesome movie. A new Lord of the Rings, Alien, Titanic, whatever you fancy. And it's free! You go into the cinema and start watching,.
The first 20 minutes are for for free, and then suddenly the sound gets quieter and quieter until you really can't hear anything. Except if you pay 2$. Well, you are already here and the movie looked promising, so you pay that, and you get the sound back.
Five minutes later, some people with huge hats with the cinemas logo sit in front of you. You pay them 5$ to take off the hats.
Five minutes later, people start throwing popcorn at you, you pay 10$ for them to stop.
Five minutes later, the screen suddenly goes black for you. You pay 30$ to be able to see the movie again.
Five minutes later, the guy sitting on the very side of your row of seats pays 200$. They slap a huge armchair right in front of you and let him sit there.
That is how 90% of all free to play MMORPGs work. That's why I hate that system.
And yet for me everything was acceptable till the 200$ guy.... Don't mind paying. But I do mind being lied it is free and I do mind the 200$ guy quite a lot...
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Because, again - people were hyped for different game than what they got.
Instead of sandbox they got somewhat bad themepark , with farmville element
^^That will happen with the release of EVERY sandbox game !
It seems that players somehow imagine that sandbox game X will be the ultimate fun, because in a sandbox, "you can do everything and anything" !
That usually translates to: "I will be able to do all the things I enjoy, and none of the things I don't enjoy !", which is a totally unrealistic expectation that will never be met. A key failure of this dream is the "I can do all the things I enjoy", because it implies that there will be "things" to do, i.e. activities provided by the game developer. Many people found old SWG very boring, because "there was nothing to do". Others had heaps of fun because they created things to do for themselves.
Most current MMO players have never played a sandbox game. The concept is appealing, but the reality of it is usually a very rude awakening. Many players are experiencing that rude awakening in Archeage, because it is not magical and entertaining from the moment you login. Everyone knows that sand box games are amazing, but AA feels just like any other game, ergo AA is not a sandbox !
AA has a very bad identity crisis because it is a hodgepodge of good ideas, badly implemented with a facebook-esque money milking scheme. This is where the negativity comes from, it divides the player base on so many levels it's in deep trouble if you ask me.
Let me explain why i think that:
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Firstly, the game is neither F2P nor P2P. It's a highly monetized system in place not to gate content or slow down progression but to extract the maximum amount of money out of players. There are so many other methods to gate content or restrict item inflation other than using a system like LP that are directly connected to your wallet.
If i pay a monthly subscription i want access to all content and i want to play as much as i have time. This is not the case with AA and that is why i give it a pass.
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Secondly the game is neither PvP nor PvE. Both is incredibly dull and boring for me. It's not engaging enough and while i kinda like the whole pirate and trade route idea it boils down to the same old PvP content we seen many times before.
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Thirdly, the game is neither Sandbox nor Theme Park. In fact i don't see any Sandbox elements at all. Having a house and a farm is not a sandbox feature, FFXIV has that, hell you can even raise Chocobos in FFXIV and no one would ever call it a Sandbox.
----
These are my opinion based on the facts and the 2 BETAS i participated in.
A fool and their money soon parts ....no matter how often you spew this crap the average patron isn't going to be spending money on LP potions , they just won't need more then the 5k they can bank
F2P is a another monster in itself , I'm sorry folks don't get the point ...you don't have to buy the game ...you don't have to sub ...you get a free trail of the pve content . That's it in a nutshell !!
It's got a 30 level training session on rails ....sorry I'm not a fan of this but just following general chat and posts on every forum you see some folks could use 100 levels of training and still not have the most basic clue of what's going on .
Lots of sandbox in AA but having a farm and a house isn't a sandbox I agree
Finally I just can't grasp after having only played two beta's ...how anyone would have even the most basic understanding of LP system yet you've managed to spew disinformation about this entire topic in at least 50 posts
Please list me the things, meaningful things, i can do that do not cost LP. Exploring, going AFK or attacking mobs is not meaningful, just so you know. No one has 5k LP in the Bank because you need it for EVERYTHING in the game.
Please list me a sandbox feature of this game. If there is lots of it, then please enlighten me.
Please, show me the disinformation i have spewed and explain to me what i do not understand about the LP system.
In my opinion what this LP does is limit what you can do so that people play less and use less resources in game. Most games get eaten up when they launch because people with time really exhaust the game and gold sellers having time make sure to drain the game further. However if you limit everyone including a subber then you have managed to slow everyone down.
As a player who pays a subscription I can see that people are mad about the awful limitations placed on them by the LP but if you play reasonably and not spend hours and hours playing you can make advances without buying additional LP. Problem is everyone wants to advance quickly and this game is limiting them. It is about time a game came up with this system and punishes those who want to overdo it with RTM.
F2P well they are not paying so what are they complaining about they should be glad they are allowed to play even. They are they to provide us paying players content .
Ya'll fanboys need to take a look into here http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?3-General-Discussion (another Trion game with cash shop, that used to be B2P + DLC's) and see how they're working the microtransactions and you'll see the truth behind your rose-tinted goggles.
Originally posted by Fusion Ya'll fanboys need to take a look into here http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?3-General-Discussion (another Trion game with cash shop, that used to be B2P + DLC's) and see how they're working the microtransactions and you'll see the truth behind your rose-tinted goggles.
Why would i bother to read that. I can log in Alpha and check the cash shop for myself. And not some other random game's; but the AA one.
You should instead put on the goggles and read what's in AA's already released cash shop.
well, has there been any game that was not bashed ruthlessly in these forums?
really the game is absolutely wonderful. it has his downsides to balance the scales but that's it. it's a game like any other. some will like it, others won't.
the only difference between those two categories of players is that the ones that like the game are having too much fun to come and waste their time on this forum, whereas those who hated it come here to vent their frustration.
Originally posted by Fusion Ya'll fanboys need to take a look into here http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?3-General-Discussion (another Trion game with cash shop, that used to be B2P + DLC's) and see how they're working the microtransactions and you'll see the truth behind your rose-tinted goggles.
Why would i bother to read that. I can log in Alpha and check the cash shop for myself. And not some other random game's; but the AA one.
You should instead put on the goggles and read what's in AA's already released cash shop.
And in you reply we see the rose-tinted goggles are in full effect. As you didn't even bother to read my post to begin with. I also saw the shop in the beta, that doesn't change the fact of what is happening with the afore mentioned game (operated by Trion).
well, has there been any game that was not bashed ruthlessly in these forums?
really the game is absolutely wonderful. it has his downsides to balance the scales but that's it. it's a game like any other. some will like it, others won't.
the only difference between those two categories of players is that the ones that like the game are having too much fun to come and waste their time on this forum, whereas those who hated it come here to vent their frustration.
Your points are valid and mostly true, but there are also those people that like the game AS A GAME (like myself), but do not like the cash-shop, how it somewhat forces itself even on patrons (subscribers) and where it will be heading soon after release / few patches later (mark my words).
I'd have absolutely nothing to gripe about (and probably tons of other folks on these forums) if it was purely subscription based.
Originally posted by Fusion Ya'll fanboys need to take a look into here http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?3-General-Discussion (another Trion game with cash shop, that used to be B2P + DLC's) and see how they're working the microtransactions and you'll see the truth behind your rose-tinted goggles.
Why would i bother to read that. I can log in Alpha and check the cash shop for myself. And not some other random game's; but the AA one.
You should instead put on the goggles and read what's in AA's already released cash shop.
And in you reply we see the rose-tinted goggles are in full effect. As you didn't even bother to read my post to begin with. I also saw the shop in the beta, that doesn't change the fact of what is happening with the afore mentioned game (operated by Trion).
And again, i've no interest in what's happening in another game. As far as AA went, the developers listened to most of our suggestions. Again these are facts if you think it's my delusion then you spend too much time on the Defiance forum instead of the Archeage one. Also if we are really going to speak about trion, why not mention rift? Why was rift called one of the best monetization system by the players?
Not that i care what happens in other games; but maybe you are interested in checking rift's forums too.
the only difference between those two categories of players is that the ones that like the game are having too much fun to come and waste their time on this forum, whereas those who hated it come here to vent their frustration.
We hear that every time a new game is being discussed here.
----
We also hear the argument that all the people defending the game should be in the game if its that good and that much fun and not on the forums posting, right?
The best thing on these forums are the ignore options.
You can weed out all the trolls and flamers in 5 minutes and poof gone are those little angry boys who do nothing but trolling and bashing.
The forums become so much better once you ignore them
In my 11+ years on the forums, i've never ignored a single person by mechanics, because i like to read opinions. Trolls and flamers i can ignore by not reading their posts
Ignoring is another way to ice your own cake from the bad flavor and denying truths that may hurt
well, has there been any game that was not bashed ruthlessly in these forums?
really the game is absolutely wonderful. it has his downsides to balance the scales but that's it. it's a game like any other. some will like it, others won't.
the only difference between those two categories of players is that the ones that like the game are having too much fun to come and waste their time on this forum, whereas those who hated it come here to vent their frustration.
Your points are valid and mostly true, but there are also those people that like the game AS A GAME (like myself), but do not like the cash-shop, how it somewhat forces itself even on patrons (subscribers) and where it will be heading soon after release / few patches later (mark my words).
I'd have absolutely nothing to gripe about (and probably tons of other folks on these forums) if it was purely subscription based.
that's too to some extent, as i said, the game has some downsides and the cash shop is one. i'm fine with cosmetics and the such, but boosting your craft masteries and skill trees is just out right pay to win. BUT for me, i've accepted it as it is since i like the game so much, i really don't mind paying a sub to have some nice pvp.
I appreciate all the responses given here. There have been some good ones.
The only thing that I see pretty consistantly here that I have to disagree with is this percieved NEED to buy LP potions if you are already a patron.
With the 5k LP I have, I have never once needed to purchase an LP potion. I've been working on alchemy for a few weeks now, so I AM using LP a lot. I can see how some one MIGHT run out of LP if they play AA a lot, and I mean a lot, but otherwise, no.
I've been playing AA for a couple of months and find it pretty enjoyable. Why all the hate?
I hear people saying it is P2W because you can buy an extra 2k LP a day. Ok, I get that. It's a little P2W'ish. I know I won't be buying any LP potions. I have never once run out of LP. And yes, I craft, a lot.
The game is fun for me. The crafting is deep'ish. There is open world housing and farming. The combat is pretty same'ish, but ok. There are naval battles. Gliders, mounts....
Graphics are ok, runs pretty well, no major bugs that I've encountered.
I've been playing mmo's since EQ in '99, and this one is atleast in the top half, imho. It's the closest thing to SWG, my all time fav, that I've played.
So tell me, why all the hate?
i don't hate the game ,i just don't like it. you can complain about a game and not hate it.
farming is boring,i never finished a plant as the 2.5 hours is ridiculus,other games have farming,lotro you farmed and the plants grew in secs,runescape you had some farming like this,but if you missed the harvest time the plant died.which ended up being a pain in ass.
glider omg,gliders,play perfect world,they have flying mounts.also like perfect world they have useless pots but sell better in cash store.form what i seen of the heal spells ,they too are worthless.
the lp are interesting,but you need to to do ANYTHING.like open loot,identify items,if you die.oh yeah the great idea of making lp while logged on will lead to people staying logged in to help bump its numbers.oh by the way the lp are shared among your characters.
all in all their is really nothing all that great about the game in itself,plus the fact it is a hybrid,ie sub game with a cash shop,makes it even worse.eso was the same,and for this reason i will not play the game.if you like it more power to you.
the 2 biggest killers to me are the you need a guild and the no opt out of pvp.in the end i think those 2 will be ite biggest problem.but if its what you like than go for it,don't expect to many others though.
I appreciate all the responses given here. There have been some good ones.
The only thing that I see pretty consistantly here that I have to disagree with is this percieved NEED to buy LP potions if you are already a patron.
With the 5k LP I have, I have never once needed to purchase an LP potion. I've been working on alchemy for a few weeks now, so I AM using LP a lot. I can see how some one MIGHT run out of LP if they play AA a lot, and I mean a lot, but otherwise, no.
F2P players is another story all together.....
In the first few weeks after launch, the "usual suspects" who have to be first to everything will no doubt consume as many potions as they are legally allowed (and/or can glitch/exploit/etc.)...
Being one of the "first" Alchemists to reach the required level to craft certain items will be very lucrative. The same applies to being one of the first Farmers to create seed packs (for fishing worms) and so on.
But after the first month, things should settle down quite a bit as more and more suppliers enter the market, and then things like Bamboo Chicken Coops will come down from 15g to 3g40s and so on...
I appreciate all the responses given here. There have been some good ones.
The only thing that I see pretty consistantly here that I have to disagree with is this percieved NEED to buy LP potions if you are already a patron.
With the 5k LP I have, I have never once needed to purchase an LP potion. I've been working on alchemy for a few weeks now, so I AM using LP a lot. I can see how some one MIGHT run out of LP if they play AA a lot, and I mean a lot, but otherwise, no.
F2P players is another story all together.....
In the first few weeks after launch, the "usual suspects" who have to be first to everything will no doubt consume as many potions as they are legally allowed (and/or can glitch/exploit/etc.)...
Being one of the "first" Alchemists to reach the required level to craft certain items will be very lucrative. The same applies to being one of the first Farmers to create seed packs (for fishing worms) and so on.
But after the first month, things should settle down quite a bit as more and more suppliers enter the market, and then things like Bamboo Chicken Coops will come down from 15g to 3g40s and so on...
I get this. And i believe it to be true.
This is where the P2W argument comes in. The LP potion, 2k per day, that's a 40% boost to LP, is a lil' bit P2W'ish. I don't like it, but it's not a game breaker for me.
I can see how it would/could be for some people, and it's unfortunate. If they took this one item off the cash shop, there would be NO P2W aspect to this game. Sadly, I don't think that will happen.
Comments
to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
Because I'm an old school gamer. I like MMORPGs, but only those where players are on an equal level.
WIth games like AA, you either have to pay far more than on a subscription game, or you end up with a botched game where everything is a chore unless you pay money.
I can't congratulate players on anything they achieved in that game, because they might have bought their way there.
If I beat players in PvP, is it because I spent money, or because I'm better? If players beat me in PvP, is it because they're good, or because they spent more money?
Not to mention that most "free to play" games end up being far more expensive for the users than subscription games.
I don't hate AA, I just won't play it, because I think that my options there are horrible:
a) have a game that quickly turns everything into a chore
b) spend huge amount of money
For that money I rather buy some complete AAA games or a dozen good indie games.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I mean, with payment systems such as in AA, it's as... For example, imagine there is an advertisment for an awesome movie. A new Lord of the Rings, Alien, Titanic, whatever you fancy. And it's free! You go into the cinema and start watching,.
The first 20 minutes are for for free, and then suddenly the sound gets quieter and quieter until you really can't hear anything. Except if you pay 2$. Well, you are already here and the movie looked promising, so you pay that, and you get the sound back.
Five minutes later, some people with huge hats with the cinemas logo sit in front of you. You pay them 5$ to take off the hats.
Five minutes later, people start throwing popcorn at you, you pay 10$ for them to stop.
Five minutes later, the screen suddenly goes black for you. You pay 30$ to be able to see the movie again.
Five minutes later, the guy sitting on the very side of your row of seats pays 200$. They slap a huge armchair right in front of you and let him sit there.
That is how 90% of all free to play MMORPGs work. That's why I hate that system.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
And yet for me everything was acceptable till the 200$ guy.... Don't mind paying. But I do mind being lied it is free and I do mind the 200$ guy quite a lot...
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^^That will happen with the release of EVERY sandbox game !
It seems that players somehow imagine that sandbox game X will be the ultimate fun, because in a sandbox, "you can do everything and anything" !
That usually translates to: "I will be able to do all the things I enjoy, and none of the things I don't enjoy !", which is a totally unrealistic expectation that will never be met. A key failure of this dream is the "I can do all the things I enjoy", because it implies that there will be "things" to do, i.e. activities provided by the game developer. Many people found old SWG very boring, because "there was nothing to do". Others had heaps of fun because they created things to do for themselves.
Most current MMO players have never played a sandbox game. The concept is appealing, but the reality of it is usually a very rude awakening. Many players are experiencing that rude awakening in Archeage, because it is not magical and entertaining from the moment you login. Everyone knows that sand box games are amazing, but AA feels just like any other game, ergo AA is not a sandbox !
*crickets*
I thought so.
In my opinion what this LP does is limit what you can do so that people play less and use less resources in game. Most games get eaten up when they launch because people with time really exhaust the game and gold sellers having time make sure to drain the game further. However if you limit everyone including a subber then you have managed to slow everyone down.
As a player who pays a subscription I can see that people are mad about the awful limitations placed on them by the LP but if you play reasonably and not spend hours and hours playing you can make advances without buying additional LP. Problem is everyone wants to advance quickly and this game is limiting them. It is about time a game came up with this system and punishes those who want to overdo it with RTM.
F2P well they are not paying so what are they complaining about they should be glad they are allowed to play even. They are they to provide us paying players content .
Why would i bother to read that. I can log in Alpha and check the cash shop for myself. And not some other random game's; but the AA one.
You should instead put on the goggles and read what's in AA's already released cash shop.
well, has there been any game that was not bashed ruthlessly in these forums?
really the game is absolutely wonderful. it has his downsides to balance the scales but that's it. it's a game like any other. some will like it, others won't.
the only difference between those two categories of players is that the ones that like the game are having too much fun to come and waste their time on this forum, whereas those who hated it come here to vent their frustration.
And in you reply we see the rose-tinted goggles are in full effect. As you didn't even bother to read my post to begin with. I also saw the shop in the beta, that doesn't change the fact of what is happening with the afore mentioned game (operated by Trion).
Your points are valid and mostly true, but there are also those people that like the game AS A GAME (like myself), but do not like the cash-shop, how it somewhat forces itself even on patrons (subscribers) and where it will be heading soon after release / few patches later (mark my words).
I'd have absolutely nothing to gripe about (and probably tons of other folks on these forums) if it was purely subscription based.
And again, i've no interest in what's happening in another game. As far as AA went, the developers listened to most of our suggestions. Again these are facts if you think it's my delusion then you spend too much time on the Defiance forum instead of the Archeage one. Also if we are really going to speak about trion, why not mention rift? Why was rift called one of the best monetization system by the players?
Not that i care what happens in other games; but maybe you are interested in checking rift's forums too.
We hear that every time a new game is being discussed here.
----
We also hear the argument that all the people defending the game should be in the game if its that good and that much fun and not on the forums posting, right?
----
Both are not arguments and complete bollocks.
In my 11+ years on the forums, i've never ignored a single person by mechanics, because i like to read opinions. Trolls and flamers i can ignore by not reading their posts
Ignoring is another way to ice your own cake from the bad flavor and denying truths that may hurt
that's too to some extent, as i said, the game has some downsides and the cash shop is one. i'm fine with cosmetics and the such, but boosting your craft masteries and skill trees is just out right pay to win. BUT for me, i've accepted it as it is since i like the game so much, i really don't mind paying a sub to have some nice pvp.
I appreciate all the responses given here. There have been some good ones.
The only thing that I see pretty consistantly here that I have to disagree with is this percieved NEED to buy LP potions if you are already a patron.
With the 5k LP I have, I have never once needed to purchase an LP potion. I've been working on alchemy for a few weeks now, so I AM using LP a lot. I can see how some one MIGHT run out of LP if they play AA a lot, and I mean a lot, but otherwise, no.
F2P players is another story all together.....
I'm enjoying it, for now.
But I am waiting on another MMO to settle into atm.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
i don't hate the game ,i just don't like it. you can complain about a game and not hate it.
farming is boring,i never finished a plant as the 2.5 hours is ridiculus,other games have farming,lotro you farmed and the plants grew in secs,runescape you had some farming like this,but if you missed the harvest time the plant died.which ended up being a pain in ass.
glider omg,gliders,play perfect world,they have flying mounts.also like perfect world they have useless pots but sell better in cash store.form what i seen of the heal spells ,they too are worthless.
the lp are interesting,but you need to to do ANYTHING.like open loot,identify items,if you die.oh yeah the great idea of making lp while logged on will lead to people staying logged in to help bump its numbers.oh by the way the lp are shared among your characters.
all in all their is really nothing all that great about the game in itself,plus the fact it is a hybrid,ie sub game with a cash shop,makes it even worse.eso was the same,and for this reason i will not play the game.if you like it more power to you.
the 2 biggest killers to me are the you need a guild and the no opt out of pvp.in the end i think those 2 will be ite biggest problem.but if its what you like than go for it,don't expect to many others though.
Hate comes from Unrealistic Expectations.
Arch age does not send Scarlet Johansen to my house for a date.
Therefore, Arch age must be terrible.
I would be MORE than happy to spend some $$$ in the cash shop if Scarlet Johansen would then show up on my door step!
She is probably my favorite actress atm. Lost in Translation, and she is SO so SO hawt.!
In the first few weeks after launch, the "usual suspects" who have to be first to everything will no doubt consume as many potions as they are legally allowed (and/or can glitch/exploit/etc.)...
Being one of the "first" Alchemists to reach the required level to craft certain items will be very lucrative. The same applies to being one of the first Farmers to create seed packs (for fishing worms) and so on.
But after the first month, things should settle down quite a bit as more and more suppliers enter the market, and then things like Bamboo Chicken Coops will come down from 15g to 3g40s and so on...
I get this. And i believe it to be true.
This is where the P2W argument comes in. The LP potion, 2k per day, that's a 40% boost to LP, is a lil' bit P2W'ish. I don't like it, but it's not a game breaker for me.
I can see how it would/could be for some people, and it's unfortunate. If they took this one item off the cash shop, there would be NO P2W aspect to this game. Sadly, I don't think that will happen.
It just excists thats all..
IMHO it's because ESO is actually getting better now that it has risen through it's rough start and people need something new to complain about...
AA is an easy target because of the founder packs and cash shop... Just give it a few... Next it will be Albion Online.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...