Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
instance combat, day/night cyles, what next..
chaintm
Member UncommonPosts: 953
Mostly for the new people..
I have followed this title for a time now, posting here and there, but it's been rare. Since 2003 allot has changed in this title. The devs , community and the game in large. While at first , I thought this title to have allot of varitity and or differance then other titles out there, the only thing I see now is "ship combat". That's it , nothing more nothing less. The game consist of fancy graphics, instance for combat, day/night cycles are no more (aye only night time in chosen instances) and more.
See my thought on this is, ok .. I get a ship, I do a mission, it's instance and hey, what can you really do on a ship anyways? other then sail back and forth and then fire your cannons. I have tnot read anything about bording , but then again as the devs and the small community that follows this title will tell you "they will make the game the way they want it" . So needless to say, there way or the highway, hmm I know of a game called swg that did this, didn't work to well for them. But point being that's it, reminds me to much of CoH but sea side. I guess it could be intresting, but they are giving poeple options to put in their own graphics on sails etc. While a neat idea, I see it as lazyness.
Then again there are some die core fans all in about this, I guess it's cool but not for me. They will flam on I am sure, but when you sum this game up...
"sail and fight in instances , go into a town and sell , buy, trade " while this may be like most morphs, water is , well water.. in RL could u imagin going to sea all the time? I did , I was in the Navy, let me tell you , all that water, well ... eh another story. I just don't see the depth in this game I once did, also with the community fanbots (as i have seen in many titles latly) and the devs backing up such childish responses, I see this one hitting the Vaporware in two years. Hey, maybe you will like this title, but if you follow my postings at all, so far I havn't been wrong. This one just has to much open ended , unknown factors . It reminds me something of Darkfall, lots of cool screens and what not, but nothing to prove it's moving forward or in the right direction. Just to many unknown for a title that has been in production this long.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Comments
I partially agree with your sentiments, i would like to see boarding at release also. But to be fair you're wrong in so far as you imply they removed it, in point of fact they said from the beggining it wasnt going to be added in till later. In the beginning they said there wasnt going to be Avatars at all, just your ship, they have added both avatars and crew upon the request of their community wich seems very devoted.
Its absolutely true they said its there game and they will build is as they see fit but its a complete fiction the community of fans has no say. I have never followed a game in production where the community had a greater impact, They created a player content system wich allows their devoted fanbase to add everything from custom flags and sails to entire ships to the game.... Originally the game was supposed to ship with only around 20 ships but thanks to the work of the fanbase there may be as many as 50 to choose from at release, depending on how fast the fans finish their projects.
As for instancing, this is one of those themes that is made for it - How would pirates survive and prosper in a world of instant communication? One call brings them all ! In the age of sail it was you them and the vast expanse that is the ocean with almost no possibility of help comming to save you.
All the naval games i ever played use instancing to simulate naval combat, why should this be any different? I was in the navy also, and thats why i love instancing in naval games, the competition is great but sailing sucks and needs to be abreviated.
The "depth" you are refering to i presume, is the PVP realm vs realm thing they are building. It is far from gone, it has been expanded.
Lets be honest for a moment, everyone has their own tastes for certain - But there simply arent many PVP games on the market and fewer still that are any good. The last thing the world needs is another cookie cutter elves and dwarves MMO.
Its cuurently in beta, I dont understand why you imagine this is vaporware - I have followed many games through development and i have to give the devs and the community high marks for interactivity and communication.
We will see if the game is any good or not when its release, its obviously modeled after such titles as Sids Pirates, and Sea Dogs, so it should be a hit - those games where.
I wish FLS and the fans the best of luck with the impending launch of the game.
I do have to agree here, from the start I was very exited about this game but the more and more I read about it the less exited I get. There is sooo much potential in a pirate mmorpg but it just seems that somewhere one the path the developers lost the vision and decided to make it an mmorpg like any other.
It just seems too limited, like it's class based, you can not switch faction, no player crafting/economy etc. Where are the freedom to cruise the carribian and do what you want, part time trader, part time adventurer, part time privateer and part time pirate?
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Its cuurently in beta, I dont understand why you imagine this is vaporware - I have followed many games through development and i have to give the devs and the community high marks for interactivity and communication.
almost all those games below were in beta, mostly because of the beta these made the vaporware list, you also have to understand vaporware dosn't mean something won't come out , it means the software itself (being the game) will within that time frame be useless and there for vaporware. Mourning was in beta (well the released under , umm alpha?) DnL release a pre thing but we know it was earlier then considerd beta (company denies the fact, states there a different build , heard that in Mourning too) SWG just dug their own grave not listening to the community. You take all this into account, factor in the facts of money, community interactions, promises, delays, changes , more delays and wala! you got vaporware. Sure allot of games have gone threw this process, you know what they should have done? Never announced it till they were ready to test it to the public, why didn't they? because they honestly thought the peice of junk they were trying to sell as a game would actually sell. Please, let's be adults about this, there is no way anyone would buy it the way it was and no company has unlimited funds to throw into a project. 3 yrs now and almost ready! lets try 5 years in development, the money sank into this title will NEVER be made back. You look at any industrial tables about online games, you will see this is a "nitch" game. It would take 100,000 subscribers to stay on the game for hmm 2 years or more to make back just the cost of making the game if not more.
Sadly I don't see that even coming close, Matrix, swg, mourning, the list goes on and on., all flopped and failed allready or doomed to fail. Cost vs profit is what it comes down too. This game is nothing like any major online game out there. Whoever suckered whoever into putting the money up for this will live with the failure for the rest of his/her life. Before making anything this large, one has to look at the demographics, profit margins etc, if this game took 3 years to develop and was definitly released and playable at that time, profit in the scope of possible subscribers might break even in 2 years, but this ? no way , not from what we know and the amount of time it has taken. Something isn't right in Demark and it will show it's ugly face soon enough. Mark my words.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Bah
This game went from Fantastic!
To CRAPTASTIC! in about 3 months. Instanced battles? Booo who wants that, thats no fun i would like ot be able ot help out people during fights if i pleased.
Just about everything they promised to deliver they arent, the world is small, and easy to navigate. It just doesnt have a real feel to it. It looks cartoony, yet realistic? To diverse cartoony maps when traveling, and all that, instead of cutting travel times down why not make Travel FUN? By not instancing battles, and letting huge fleets go at it. Oh wait thats right their way or the highway midset, well ill deffninantly let them build this highway into the desert. This game is going no where, Eve-Onlline is far better, ( you can be a pirate in that game too, but a space pirate) I swear to god this was such a simple equation too, use this for example.
This game was based on being like Eve-Online in EVERY ASPECT! That i thought was A GOOD THING! Eve did it right! I mean here:
Eve has 4 out of 7 of MMORPG.coms awards. it is the best ranked game by players.
So why not use their ideas? Of Open Fighting no instances, and dangerous fun travel? I mean being a priate back in the 1600's this would of BEEN KILLER! Massive ship battles cannons booming, people boarding ships, it would of been great, but nope they shot that one in the face before it had a chance to speak, congrads guys have fun with this pile i will no longer be following this terrible game,
WHY CANT THEY JUST DO IT RIGHT>.<
Funny how someone can go from fanboy to psychotic anti-fan in a matter of a couple of weeks.
Let's see. Seems like it was just yesterday (JANUARY 2006 perhaps?) that someone made their VERY FIRST post on the PotBS forums. Someone raged on about how good looking the game is.
"Those water and ship combat effects are just mind blowing," someone said.
"Nothing is better in my opinion," someone said.
"I have come to like what I have seen and now see," someone said.
That person even went so far as to rave, "...now, with all these minor details enabled, more versital game play etc.. I have come from the background to say, " I for one am looking forward to playing" and keep up on the rout your going because everything is looking better each day."
The CEO of FLS himself, Rusty, responded to his thread on the same day. (How often does that happen?)
"Best water I have seen in any title to date," someone said.
"I guess I'm an artist fanbot now," someone said.
"A fan," someone said.
"It is the best, no kissing butt, but dang, you guys got water down to a tea," someone said.
"No doubt heavy game mechanics "make the game" but graphics (as they are on the web) are just AS important and the graphic team should know that they have fans!, how many graphic people can say that !?" someone said.
Then, sadly, someone decided that day/night cycles were absolutely critically necessary in the game. That if PotBS did not have day/night cycles, it would fail. Miserably. That the devs were misleading the fans because they posted screenshots with sunrise, sunset or moonlight.
If you don't implement EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY SUGGESTIONS, this game will be vapourware, someone said.
Go ahead and flame me, I don't care, someone said.
And, sadly, someone got the ban stick for two days. (via Robespierre, co-founder of Flying Lab Software, who was kind enough to respond in his day/night thread)
[quote]Originally posted by chaintm
[b]
2 days. cause: soliciting flames / trolling. deleted all post.
So you have to forgive me, when someone says this game will "NEVER BE MADE," I say LOL!!!
Some of us will be passing judgement AFTER the game releases, not before we even get a chance to see it in early beta.
Yup all of it is true, no doubt, I was totally hyped about this game, till I questioned the concerns I had , dove deeper into the company and looked beyond what I see, talked to some people I know and sure enough.. it's VAPORWARE.
Eh, you can beleive it or not , you can post your opinion here as well. But my change of heart comes from responses and facts, not just blindly flying by what I read from the past. See I give all games the benifit of telling the truth, then when I or anyone for that matter question a game and it get's the "nerf bat" I then deep into the company and title more, because now there is something to hide. It will come to life the truth, you can sit there thou and relish in the idea you can come back here and say "told yeah so" but really, you will come back here and say, how did you know? And even before you ask, just read above, that is the truth I speak of. I was so ready for a new game, this isn't it.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
hehehe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if i where you i wouldnt be trying to sound so certain. After all, most logical people would have said that WW II online and Anarchy online would fail, you couldnt even log into WW II online when it was launched..... And yet they survived. And more, some say they are good games now.
You claim to have superiour knowledge, but if you cant demonstrate a divine connection of some sort im going to have to take your prophet utterences with a grain of salt.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Partial truth, i dont want to see any game fail, i would like everyone to succeed, even the ones i dont personally like.
But thats beside the point, I think you underestimate how badly the MMORPG community wants some diversity, most titles involve fantasy.
If they do nothing but give a pale imitation of such popular titles as say, Sid's Pirates, Sea Dogs, Age of sail, it is certain to have a following. Believe it or not some people dont care for elves and dwarves or are sick of them.
And i dont want to sound nit-picky but i must question your definition of vaporware, the games you mentioned above where all released.
Vaporware is something promised but never released, Not a game that is released lives out its life cycle then dies. EQ and that ancient 2D game UO where sucessfull and still live. Do a search on "UO shards" Its fans host their own versions now, and god knows how long that will last. Shadowbane was released, Mourning is vaporware, D&L maybe is vapor we will see.
What do you mean by "I've yet to be wrong"? You're absolutely wrong in thinking that there was EVER a day/night cycle, you just assumed this the entire time because you saw night and sunsets in the screenshots. When you found out that there was NOT going to be a day/night cycle you decided that there had been one and it had been ditched. You did say "Day/night cycle is no more" So, since this has been one of you're main reasons for turning apesh*t crazy against the game, wouldn't this in fact be an instance of you being wrong? As far as i'm concerned you can trash PoTBs all you want, it's you're opinion, but at least get it right if you're actually going to make a rediculous claim like "I've yet to be wrong"
Actually, I'm assuming you meant that you've yet to be wrong in predicting a games failure, not yet to be wrong about you're reasons why the game will be a failure. Anyway, oh omnicient prophet of doom, why don't you explain how they could have implimented a non-instanced combat system? The way i see it, it wouldn't be easy, combat would have to either take place on the navmap as it is, which would suck, or they would have to do away with the navmap alltogether in which case they'd have to speed up the game time x100 when not in combat so you could get from port to port without spending hours and hours upon hours just getting somewhere. Aside from also looking stupid, how would you initiate combat with a ship sailing by you at 80 mph? You're objections just seem to be petty little non-issues and yet you object so strongly.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
This issue is simply one of scale. To be even remotely realistic ship combat needs to involve 10+ minutes of manouvering and cannon fire before boarding. To avoid any combat between two ships mushrooming until there were dozens of ships taking part they'd need to follow one of two options: instance the combat and prevent everyone else joining it, or scale the main game world so that few people would be within 10 minutes sail of the combat. A side effect of the second option would be that it would take 30 minutes to an hour to sail between even the closest ports in the game, and most (and likely all) of that time would be uneventful. They decided to take the more action focused option and to have navigation and combat take place at different scales.
I don't know about others, but one thing that put me off EVE was spending what seemed like an eternity watching my ship flying around on autopilot, leaving me with little to do but watch TV. I'm certainly glad that a trip from Antigua to Barbados won't involve me setting my ship on its course and then watching TV for half an hour, occasionally checking back to see if there was any distant sail on the horizon or if the wind had changed.
In EVE you can make insta jumps - setting up bookmarks about 12 km to the opposite side of a star gate seen from the direction you are approaching from. When you warp to such a bookmark now, you come out in jump range and can jump immediately instead of having to wait for an approach. Another possibility is to use micro warp drives and afterburners to speed up approach times where you dont have insta jumps set up.
It is your fault that you needed to watch TV, not the fault of EVE - you could have used your brain.
Ragosch
Did they always have those? It was almost two years ago that I played, and there was certainly nothing in the tutorial / manual / whatever to suggest that there was any quicker ways between systems.
This forum ia totally messed up.
Not worth posting in.
It is not in a tuturial - it is simply a result of using your brain to find a solution. When you warp to a stargate you come out about 15km away from the star gate and need to approach (done by autopilot). Now when you set a bookmark 12 km away from the star gate in the opposite direction and warp to that location you will come out 3 km away from the gate and you are about in jump distance.
If you setup these insta jump bookmarks for a route you are using often, you can "warp to bookmark" "jump" "warp to bookmark" "jump" and do not have to wait for an approach in between. Think of approaching with 300 m/s, a distance of 12 km needs 40 seconds. If you travel for 15 jumps you can save 600 seconds = 10 minutes this way. Not to forget that you can pass low secure sectors with less risk if you have insta jump bookmarks for that route through that low sec system. Without such an insta jump bookmark you would need to approach and might be caught be a webifier and a scrambler.
Ragosch
Ive played Eve, i used bookmarks, and its still alot of traveling. There are many things i liked about eve, but traveling was not among them. And neither was the skill system for that matter. Whoever came up with the idea of gaining skills while not playing should be shot for stupidity.
But that is neither here nor there, I agree with the previous poster that instanced combat is well suited to the PotBS theme. Instances offer control, in a game of instant communications everyone could rush to take part in a confrontation if their buddy was involved, but historically if you didnt have your friends with you or just over the horizon you where on your own.
I think some are confused with PotBS's brand of instancing. The devs are arranging it so that if you enter an area where combat is taking place there are ways to enter into the instance.
Examples include people following close behind the person or persons being attacked will be able to enter the instance, calls for help using flares will open up a doorway to the instance for those who are nearby as well, although with the penalty that the player lighting off the flare will recieve no experience for the encounter...
This game is being built with wargamers as its target audience. Realtime 18th century ship-ship combat. It wont be for everyone just as EVE doesnt appeal to everyone, but if you liked EVE chances are you will also like this variation on the ship vs ship theme.
Actually this idea is very good and fair - it does not provide power gamers with an advantage as far as skills are concerned - a casual player gains skill in the same time as a power gamer - there is no difference. If you think a fair game is a stupid game, do so, but IMO it is plain stupid to shoot the guy who came up with that idea because it is brilliant.
Ragosch
well, i guess i stand corrected sorta.
Your the first person i ever met who liked that feature, and your welcome to it. To each his own.
My attitude is i dont care if the power gamer spends 40hrs a week playing to get ahead of me, im not motivated by envy, i dont need to stop them.
Its not about "fairness". New people come along all the time and they start from behind like everyone else AND STAY BEHIND UNABLE TO CATCH UP ANYTIME SOON! is that fair?. Its about forcing people to maintain a subscription for a extended period of time if they want to experience certain high end content. And thats it.
Now its a free country and i respect your right to like whatever it is you like as long as its legal, But most of us see this kind of system as a crutch. That is, if they made a better more interesting game people would want to maintain a subscription for the entertainment as opposed to forcing everyone into a measured pace of ascension.
I heard this argument before and it would be right if the skill-tree wouldnt be huge. EVE uses a very huge skill tree and in a certain situation you just use a small percentage of all those skills you have learnt already. So in the long run additional skills does not give you more power in a certain situation. Those skills provide a wider variety of ships to use BEFORE you enter combat, but not WHILE you are already in a combat situation.
If someone is not a plain newbie and has played the game for some months he is able to compete with others in the right position within a fleet. Mass combat is not limited to veteran players. Look at the video where the first new carrier has been brought down this month - a ship which costs about 1.3 billion ISK with a veteran commander - brought down mainly by a group of frigates.
The time-dependent skill gain does not hinder you to be successfull, you just need to be good organized. EVE is not a game for solo'er, but for player corporations. For this way to play the game the time-dependent system is fair.
Ragosch
Yeah, I have lost all the will to get into the beta.
Im just playing EvE Baby!!!
EvE: Smokeblender - Giottos O.
Back on topic...
I am not a fan of instancing because it detracts from immersion in most MMOGs, and cheapens the instanced event by making it repeatable over and over again in an isolated environment without being impacted by the gameworld and it's inhabitants. There is a serious disconnect between the gameworld at large and instanced scenarios.
In PotBS however, instancing actually promotes immersion by simulating and preserving the reality of distance and isolation, that one would experience in the historical setting of Caribbean Pirates. It would be unrealistic for the instant communication that exists between players, to allow groups and guilds to converge on a battle, that in a realistic setting, would not be possible, because of the inability to communicate events in real time.
Instancing in PotBS will also make it possible for soloers to survive, who otherwise would be easily outnumbered and outgunned, regardless of the quality of their skills, when faced with an onslaught of foes continuously joining the fray against them.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
As far as instancing goes, its made guild wars a success, and while it might not be some folks favorite style of gaming, it does cut down on kill stealing, fighting over spawns and all the nastiness associated when impatient players come together. Its nice to be able to do most of the high end content in gw with a small group of people.
Of course this does steal one of the things I most enjoy in online gaming... the random player kill.
Seems like most of the online rpgs have had most kinds of pking taken out or never available besides. Another reason instancing remains so popular. I can see the arguements for this line of thought. Being on the winning side of quite a few gankings, noobs and power gamers both, I have recieved my fair share of flames providing me with them. From posts by various game devs that I have read the thought seems to be that trollish players (like myself) drive other players out of the game. This doesnt hold water for me, i'm sorry to say. Anyone that quits an online game over a random gank isnt the lifelong online addict that all the rest of are. They are not the type of people who pay a monthly fee for 2yrs+ to play a single mmo they cant get enough of. Most of us are the type of folk who after first getting ganked brooded in a dark closet with a bottle of jack over how much grinding needed to be done to rack a horrible vengence on that smug LA based clan of fanboys who made your armor decay and laughed about it afterwards.
I've seen a great deal of negativity about Pirates on these forums lately and I dont understand where its coming from. The gameplay trailers I've seen for this game look stellar. The historical content on the websites has me digging through the history section at borders so I can out geek the other geeks in pirate roleplaying once this game is released.
Pirates of the Burning Sea is going to rock. Once all you flamers get over that and start playing after release, dont be suprised if you see my black sails closing off the port bow.
Yarrr!
That's kinda like saying people who send back a bowl of soup because it has a fly in it aren't the type of people who *really* enjoy soup.
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online