Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
The game may be awesome, but....
bill4747
Member Posts: 202
Without dnd classes, pen and paper rules, it's not Pathfinder, and its not dnd.
I will follow the game and possibly play it if the reviews are stellar, but as a pen and paper dnd fan, the big draw would be the game actually resembling dnd in some way.
I was hugely disappointed in both DDO and Neverwinter, and it was because both games barely resemble dnd at all.
In all fairness, if the game was not called pathfinder Online, and instead was called "Amazing new fantasy rpg online" I would probably not be complaining.
I will try to keep an open mind.
Comments
That's a fair comment.
I think the devs are using the Pathfinder "brand" more than the "rules". Whether or not the following accept that or like it is going to vary or may even be mostly not content with that choice it seems. But the differentiation is one the TT is more of a story-telling, small group game and the other is more of a simulation and massive network "thing" where iirc it's the achievement type of personality that finds more of a home there than the theatrics type.
Personally I like the idea of a fantasy Game Of Thrones albeit the player settlements and nations are the equivalent with tons of politics. Alternatively just seeing the sandbox genre evolve is a good start.
Here's something Ryan Dancey, Goblinworks CEO, mentioned roughly speaking about what's it's supposed to be:-
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
While I am not a big time pen-and-paper player personally, I can to some extent relate to your feeling. A loved franchise is a loved franchise.
That being said, I myself, as stated being a non-PNP player, find the world of Pathfinder extremely suitable for an MMORPG. To me, it is just another fantasy setting, much like Forgotten Realms as it is implemented in certain video games, and I love that kind of fantasy. It even has a cool name to it already.
I suppose you'll have to look at Pathfinder simply as the chosen brand of the game, as the poster above pointed out. If you're looking for a PNP experience online, I guess it might not be a game for you. As an MMORPG gamer, I think the game looks extremely interesting.
The Weekly Wizardry blog
In all honestly.. you can not translate DnD PnP rulesets into a computer game, and even more not into a Multiplayer computer game. If you want to play with DnD PnP rulesets you have to play it as pen and paper with a few friends.
What you can do, is to make the world alive where the Pathfinder IP is based, and you can introduce some aspects in one or the other way into a computer game. And i guess Pathfinder Online does that in the most part, maybe a lot more than games like Neverwinter or DDO, because it will be more of a world, and not so much one themepark alongside the other.
In my opinion it is never the best idea to base computer games on a well known IP, it would be better to make up your own... because you almost never can asemble the feeling what makes the IP what it is. And i can't remember one computer game, which did that to any extent. As example.. SWG was a great game.. but it was not great because it was Star Wars, but because of the mechanics, and would be as good with any other IP.
On the other side i understand why a lot of developers try to go with a well known IP.. because it will attract potential players, which would otherwise not try that game.. but in the long run it usually never ends good.
Wait, DDO wasn't like D&D? Since when? That game used classes, races, abilities—it even showed off the dice rolls! What are we expecting, a system where it lags whenever you try to Grapple something while the system looks up the rules?
Anyways, that and Neverwinter is about as close as you can get. Pathfinder Online isn't adapting the game, it's adapting the setting. Frankly, that's plenty for me.
EDIT: Flagged as possible spam! THEY KNOW!
KC it is hard to read your posts when you are trying to provide useful information while not in character.
Did it hurt? Are you ok?
YOU are right, no classes. It is better.
CLASSES: As you gain experience you add to character traits. Under classes, you collect EXP, and then say 2000, poof more hit points, spells, skill improvement, BAB, ...
PfO ROLES: As you gain experience, you use experience to buy: hit points, attributes, spells, weapon skill …; gaining as you play. There are prerequisite and achievement that you will pick up as you play. gather a collection and you role level increases opening higher levels. You want to multi-class, learn some wizard, some cleric and Mystic Theurger (sp) here you come. (Consider the EVE experience gain and adding skills)
If I could figure how to do this in TT PF, it would be very interesting. But for TT the paperwork would be crazy, much more complex -- need to computerize the player development. Hmmm, PfO is computerized!
Roles over classes!
As above, the mechanics are different from paper to online. But there is actually an established connection between the TT pathfinder game and PFO, for completion of this topic:-
Pathfinder Adventure Path: Kingmaker Player's Guide (PFRPG) PDF
It's a really good pdf. There's a decent spread of building types for example and of course the hex map structure too. Which fits what PFO is (eventually) developing towards:-
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
An open mind is flayer bait.
Seriously, though, I disagree that without those structural conventions it isn't Pathfinder. There are other details that would be better suited to disputing the appropriateness of the IP, but Pathfinder and D&D classes, stats, TT rules are no more than systems that give structure and consistency to something else that really is D&D and Pathfinder.
To dream, perhaps to be.
Just wanted to throw my 2 cp in about the OP.
Having played a lot of D&D, and a little bit of Pathfinder, and a *lot* of Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, it's really awesome to me how much continuity there is through all the Pathfinder variants. I know the ACG doesn't follow the RPG rules to the letter either, but it's still very cool, and *very* Pathfinder-y.
I've been playing the Pathfinder Online Alpha for the last 6 weeks or so, and it's been a blast, with incredibly deep and complex systems, and a lot of the Pathfinder *feel*.
More discussion here:-
Tabletop to Desktop: Making Wizards Work in Pathfinder Online
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Long time tabletop gamer, though I don't have time to do that anymore either, I am glad to see a D&D-style fantasy world get the sandbox treatment. Not everyone will be able to say they killed the evil ruler of gobstankia, but the ones who can will now be the nee rulers of goodlandia, formerly-known-as-gobstankia. (No goblins were harmed in the making of this post.)
On the one hand, I have to admit that I wish the game was a little closer to the TTRPG, at least in how it handles attributes (let me do point buy and only get minimal attribute advancement thereafter). However, I certainly like dropping levels in favor of skill progression over time (sure beats grinding). I also like that you can mix and match skills instead of being locked to a single class.
That said, I see where the OP is coming from. I think I have a certain set of expectations that a game based on a TTRPG will remain very close to the TTRPG in both system and setting. The only reason it might not be bothering me as much is that I'm not a huge Pathfinder fan, so I'm able to see it as "fantasy MMO with the Pathfinder name" and bring no baggage or expectations to the table.
Now if they did a Battletech RPG and messed it up...
* Spells outside combat
* Size of buildings and settlements not shrunk down to "model village" size
* Visceral combat and armies sized battlefield experiences.
* Exploits and griefing that affect immersion
* AI that can't compete with a GM and the range of interactions beyond combat
* Death penalty and limits to consequences that reduce the drama of the story
Etc
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem