Originally posted by jusomdude How much I've already spent has nothing to do with it for me. I play it because it's the best on the market.
Yep, now I dont think wow is the best mmo. But I find it hard to believe 5 mil or so people play wow just because they dropped money into the game they feel obligated too. They most likely play it because its the most easily accessible mmo. I always tell people who have never played a mmo to level 1 class to max in wow and you'll have a good idea on how mmos work.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
I think there are dozens of reasons why people enjoy playing WOW, be it the PVP, the raiding, their friends, the lore, the fluidity, runs well on their computer, the sunk cost, or they just love being an Orc.
All of these reasons combined result in WOW retaining a large subscriber base, it isn't due to one or two reasons.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran I think there are dozens of reasons why people enjoy playing WOW, be it the PVP, the raiding, their friends, the lore, the fluidity, runs well on their computer, the sunk cost, or they just love being an Orc.
All of these reasons combined result in WOW retaining a large subscriber base, it isn't due to one or two reasons.
QFT. Im actually going back to wow because I love the lore. WoD is a loregasm for me. Plus my friends play it too.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Valid points and I agree with them. However, I also think there is another one that contributes largely to the wow player base. That is... Uniqueness, now I know, a lot of games have drawn there inspiration from world of warcraft. But even though there are a lot of other similar type of games out there, there is no wow as a whole, in terms of its features. I dont know one other game that offers the combination of, 3 player scenarios, 5 player dungeons, 10 player raids, 25 player raids, Heroic, LFR, normal difficulties, open world pvp, battlegrounds, 10, 15, 20, 40 players. Arena, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 etc... And an all up time of like 15 years development, on a game that still has competitive graphics and is extremely fluid for a massive multiplayer game. Its combined features, are what makes the game popular, it has everything, for everyone, and the only reason that a lot of people lose interest, is because they simply get bored of the games context after a long time of playing.
Originally posted by Kyleran I think there are dozens of reasons why people enjoy playing WOW, be it the PVP, the raiding, their friends, the lore, the fluidity, runs well on their computer, the sunk cost, or they just love being an Orc.
All of these reasons combined result in WOW retaining a large subscriber base, it isn't due to one or two reasons.
It's also a collector's wet dream, with all the pets and mounts (and achievements) they can hunt down.
WoW has so many features that the game appeals to a very broad audience.
I haven't played it for years now, but I can acknowledge that a lot of people find it fun. Heck, even if I were to go back I'm sure I could entertain myself with it for a while again.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Originally posted by hikaru77 The primary reason why WoW still have 7 mill of subs is called ¨ASIAN MARKET¨.
I doubt that, seeing what kind of games the Asian market generally prefers. (AKA incredibly hardcore grinders like Lineage, or games with a huge sex appeal like TERA and B&S).
No doubt part of the 7 million "subs" is because of how those Asian accounts work, but I have no doubt a huge part of them are coming from the western market.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Why do we continuously bash Blizzard for a huge success in the history of the company? Give me one other company that has the tenure and the subs as a measurement of success? Why has no one else come close?
Where are the 'millions of people' who quit playing WoW? I bet they are doing nothing more but trying to find a replacement that will satisfy the quality of gaming that WoW has produced over the years.
WoW wasn't always WoW. It evolved from a cheesy rpg with box-to-box capabilities named, WoW.
"More Wood Please"
Let's be honest, the game has taken many turns and Blizzard has been the standing champion of change.
"Change is good." -S.Walton
Change has made the game a huge success across many platforms and genres. Blizzard failed in many of the changes they dished out but has always been big enough to control what they can... content! They are the masters of eye-candy and people want to be taken away from wherever they are, WoW is a huge time sink (not necessarily a fallacy).
I played WoW until my life changed enough to move on. No way will I ever begin to think it was a huge mistake or even something I was doing while other gaming companies evolved. I had solid fun. The community was great and I developed good friends along the way.
It is not a mistake that WoW survived this long but merely that Blizzard has a finger on the pulse of gamers.
Originally posted by DMKano There's also a decent percentage of WoW players that ONLY like WoW. They could care less for any other MMOs. I I think WoW is the only game that has such singularly minded players.
I don't think it's exactly like that.
WoW is a very polished game and always has been! It just runs good on many different systems and it's a fun game for many!
I mean. People just continue to play it, because they like it.
Combine that With the Points to OP mentioned and People just keep on playing.
I was talking to my friend who is a huge WoW player. I asked him if he would try out Everquest Next when it came out. He said he has too much time invested in WoW to leave. It's just not fun to me personally. I've tried to like it. I really do want to play an MMO with lots of subscribers, but I just do not have any fun playing WoW. Quite boring actually.
Tell me about a better MMO than WoW, and I'll play it. I've been looking for a better one for about 6 years now.
Everquest 2 wasn't it.
Warhammer wasn't it.
Age of Conan wasn't it.
Lord of the Rings Online, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
Aion wasn't it.
Rift wasn't it.
TERA wasn't it.
SWTOR, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
I didn't even bother buying TESO and Wildstar - I've gotten good at telling bad MMOs at a distance. Sure enough, reviews backed me up.
Everquest Next, I'm buying the second I can... HOPING that the makers of the old Everquest that I loved so much can *finally* put out a better product than WoW.
For me, it has positively nothing to do with Sunk Cost fallacy and everything to do with no MMO to date has been able to do what WoW has: grab my attention and keep it for years.
Why do we continuously bash Blizzard for a huge success in the history of the company? Give me one other company that has the tenure and the subs as a measurement of success? Why has no one else come close?
Where are the 'millions of people' who quit playing WoW? I bet they are doing nothing more but trying to find a replacement that will satisfy the quality of gaming that WoW has produced over the years.
WoW wasn't always WoW. It evolved from a cheesy rpg with box-to-box capabilities named, WoW.
"More Wood Please"
Let's be honest, the game has taken many turns and Blizzard has been the standing champion of change.
"Change is good." -S.Walton
Change has made the game a huge success across many platforms and genres. Blizzard failed in many of the changes they dished out but has always been big enough to control what they can... content! They are the masters of eye-candy and people want to be taken away from wherever they are, WoW is a huge time sink (not necessarily a fallacy).
I played WoW until my life changed enough to move on. No way will I ever begin to think it was a huge mistake or even something I was doing while other gaming companies evolved. I had solid fun. The community was great and I developed good friends along the way.
It is not a mistake that WoW survived this long but merely that Blizzard has a finger on the pulse of gamers.
WoW is good or great for the people who have been playing it for the last 10 years. But you know?, you have out there an insane amount of gamers or MMO players who never played WoW or just dont like it at all, they are scattered playing other games.
And like i said before, the 7 mill of subs number is a bit tricky.
Tell me about a better MMO than WoW, and I'll play it. I've been looking for a better one for about 6 years now.
Everquest 2 wasn't it.
Warhammer wasn't it.
Age of Conan wasn't it.
Lord of the Rings Online, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
Aion wasn't it.
Rift wasn't it.
TERA wasn't it.
SWTOR, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
I didn't even bother buying TESO and Wildstar - I've gotten good at telling bad MMOs at a distance. Sure enough, reviews backed me up.
It has positively nothing to do with Sunk Cost fallacy and everything to do with no MMO to date has been able to do what WoW has: grab my attention and keep it for years.
wish EQ2 would be mmorpg king todays. but game engine...:/
IMO the reasons vast majority of the reason people still pay the game as much as they do is 3 fold:
70% - Sunk cost. People have invested hundreds or thousands of hours and don't want to feel like they've wasted that time:
20% - Lack of anything else worth playing out there
10% - Popularity. Some people just want to be part of the group, so to speak.
Now, i'm not suggesting EVERY person playing the game is part of this group. But i think its a significant majority. I'm sure there's a few hundred thousand playing it who are honestly, truly enjoying it and having fun, but i think probably 80% or better are just falling victim to the above listed reasons.
Isn't that true for any game which is as old as WOW? EQ? EQ2? Daoc etc?
Or you are saying sunk cost and time is only something unique to WOW.
Its been 10 years guys i suggest stop downplaying WOW's success.
Tell me about a better MMO than WoW, and I'll play it. I've been looking for a better one for about 6 years now.
Everquest 2 wasn't it.
Warhammer wasn't it.
Age of Conan wasn't it.
Lord of the Rings Online, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
Aion wasn't it.
Rift wasn't it.
TERA wasn't it.
SWTOR, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
I didn't even bother buying TESO and Wildstar - I've gotten good at telling bad MMOs at a distance. Sure enough, reviews backed me up.
Everquest Next, I'm buying the second I can... HOPING that the makers of the old Everquest that I loved so much can *finally* put out a better product than WoW.
For me, it has positively nothing to do with Sunk Cost fallacy and everything to do with no MMO to date has been able to do what WoW has: grab my attention and keep it for years.
Same! I've subbed to EQ, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, LoTRO, UO, and I've even played some of them for years at a time. Actually, I'll probably even sub to SWTOR again, since I enjoy playing it with my kids. WoW is still king of the castle though. It's simply better.
Tell me about a better MMO than WoW, and I'll play it. I've been looking for a better one for about 6 years now.
Everquest 2 wasn't it.
Warhammer wasn't it.
Age of Conan wasn't it.
Lord of the Rings Online, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
Aion wasn't it.
Rift wasn't it.
TERA wasn't it.
SWTOR, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
I didn't even bother buying TESO and Wildstar - I've gotten good at telling bad MMOs at a distance. Sure enough, reviews backed me up.
Everquest Next, I'm buying the second I can... HOPING that the makers of the old Everquest that I loved so much can *finally* put out a better product than WoW.
For me, it has positively nothing to do with Sunk Cost fallacy and everything to do with no MMO to date has been able to do what WoW has: grab my attention and keep it for years.
Same! I've subbed to EQ, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, LoTRO, UO, and I've even played some of them for years at a time. Actually, I'll probably even sub to SWTOR again, since I enjoy playing it with my kids. WoW is still king of the castle though. It's simply better.
Not only do we have the same tastes, we're on the same WoW Realm. Hail, Fellow Dreamer.
I returned part-time to WoW, mainly because of my son who got into the game recently. It is easy to quest together so that was one of the major reasons for me to resub though I am into SWTOR and TESO.
If TESO would have better group-play (less phasing excluding your partner), we would probably play that though.
I keep coming back to WoW for it's gameplay, you know the nitty gritty stuff, the feel of combat and animations, how it all works together. No other MMO comes close.
As for these threads and why I keep coming back to threads where insecure people need validation for their choices, I have no idea why I keep coming back.
As far as sunk cost, I feel I have no ties to my characters in game at the moment because I have 14 90's and am working on two more this past week. I find the only reward from the game that is solid is leveling. There is no solid connection to my characters when it's cheaper and easier just to start a new one and move some heirlooms around. I only raid/allowed to raid with 1 toon and my guild got bored before we finished normal mode Garrosh. I've seen the inside of LFR upside down and backwards on 11 Dwarves and one horde Panda and it's gotten quite stale. I've done flex on my choice raiding toon, but it doesn't appeal as much as completing it with a group of friends.
I reactivated, again, because of your other two reasons. There is nothing else out there that currently fits my personal niche, which is Dwarfs/Dwarves.
My guild quit, I doubt they are coming back, so I moved servers to make new friends, joined a more PVP oriented guild and am hoping to bloody my knuckles with them.
So TLDR:
Sunk cost - The majority of things are too easy to accomplish in WoW, it's very easy to reroll and move on.
Lack of Anything else - True, there isn't a great Medieval Fantasy game that fills my Tolkien niche. (LOTRO is...eh)
Popularity - It's the devil I know, as opposed to trying another game that doesn't have what I want in terms of races/classes and time period.
IMO the reasons vast majority of the reason people still pay the game as much as they do is 3 fold:
70% - Sunk cost. People have invested hundreds or thousands of hours and don't want to feel like they've wasted that time:
20% - Lack of anything else worth playing out there
10% - Popularity. Some people just want to be part of the group, so to speak.
Now, i'm not suggesting EVERY person playing the game is part of this group. But i think its a significant majority. I'm sure there's a few hundred thousand playing it who are honestly, truly enjoying it and having fun, but i think probably 80% or better are just falling victim to the above listed reasons.
Do you presume that the 7 million people playing have been here from the start? Thats absurd. Also the reasons that so many people, thou on a rapid decline, are playing are more complex. I guess what you ment to discuss was why 'longtimers' keep playing, but again their number is way way way less than the 7 mil. You should rather be asking how Blizzard have been so succesful getting new subs. Cause they keep the numbers up. The answer to that question Can undoubtfully be approached from many angles. Branding, marketing, accessibility, a good story in game, a good game in other aspects etc etc etc have placed WoW as a cultural phenomenon unlike most, if not all, games. This could also be related to its theme being adventure inspired ,with orcs and elves, that so many people came to love from reading and later watching Lord of the Rings. But again its prevalience is Way more complex.
Yep, sunk cost. No one would ever play WoW for the well crafted world, the myriad of things to do and because it's fun. We all know that WoW is a terrible game and no one can figure out why it's so successful, it's gotta be marketing or sunk cost or aliens - there's no logical explanation for it!
Originally posted by Rusque Yep, sunk cost. No one would ever play WoW for the well crafted world, the myriad of things to do and because it's fun.
You don't play the same shit for over a year no matter how good it is same way you won't eat the same thing every day 3x a day if you can have something else.
Nr.1 reason wow is still going: most of their players don't know about other games. Ask in your guild arround and most didnt even hear of half the mmorpgs out there. They don't try to have a choice and don't choose -that's why they are still stuck in wow.
Originally posted by Rusque Yep, sunk cost. No one would ever play WoW for the well crafted world, the myriad of things to do and because it's fun.
You don't play the same shit for over a year no matter how good it is same way you won't eat the same thing every day 3x a day if you can have something else.
Nr.1 reason wow is still going: most of their players don't know about other games. Ask in your guild arround and most didnt even hear of half the mmorpgs out there. They don't try to have a choice and don't choose -that's why they are still stuck in wow.
This would be funny and/or ironic if you had not edited Rusque's post.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Yep, now I dont think wow is the best mmo. But I find it hard to believe 5 mil or so people play wow just because they dropped money into the game they feel obligated too. They most likely play it because its the most easily accessible mmo. I always tell people who have never played a mmo to level 1 class to max in wow and you'll have a good idea on how mmos work.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
All of these reasons combined result in WOW retaining a large subscriber base, it isn't due to one or two reasons.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
QFT. Im actually going back to wow because I love the lore. WoD is a loregasm for me. Plus my friends play it too.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
It's also a collector's wet dream, with all the pets and mounts (and achievements) they can hunt down.
WoW has so many features that the game appeals to a very broad audience.
I haven't played it for years now, but I can acknowledge that a lot of people find it fun. Heck, even if I were to go back I'm sure I could entertain myself with it for a while again.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I doubt that, seeing what kind of games the Asian market generally prefers. (AKA incredibly hardcore grinders like Lineage, or games with a huge sex appeal like TERA and B&S).
No doubt part of the 7 million "subs" is because of how those Asian accounts work, but I have no doubt a huge part of them are coming from the western market.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Really?!?
'Sunk Cost Fallacy'?
Why do we continuously bash Blizzard for a huge success in the history of the company? Give me one other company that has the tenure and the subs as a measurement of success? Why has no one else come close?
Where are the 'millions of people' who quit playing WoW? I bet they are doing nothing more but trying to find a replacement that will satisfy the quality of gaming that WoW has produced over the years.
WoW wasn't always WoW. It evolved from a cheesy rpg with box-to-box capabilities named, WoW.
"More Wood Please"
Let's be honest, the game has taken many turns and Blizzard has been the standing champion of change.
"Change is good." -S.Walton
Change has made the game a huge success across many platforms and genres. Blizzard failed in many of the changes they dished out but has always been big enough to control what they can... content! They are the masters of eye-candy and people want to be taken away from wherever they are, WoW is a huge time sink (not necessarily a fallacy).
I played WoW until my life changed enough to move on. No way will I ever begin to think it was a huge mistake or even something I was doing while other gaming companies evolved. I had solid fun. The community was great and I developed good friends along the way.
It is not a mistake that WoW survived this long but merely that Blizzard has a finger on the pulse of gamers.
I don't think it's exactly like that.
WoW is a very polished game and always has been! It just runs good on many different systems and it's a fun game for many!
I mean. People just continue to play it, because they like it.
Combine that With the Points to OP mentioned and People just keep on playing.
popularity effect a bit my mmorpg choise.
less players=less quality updates and chance that game will be plugged off. having few player in game hardly give devs reason to work.
currently in 20%.
Tell me about a better MMO than WoW, and I'll play it. I've been looking for a better one for about 6 years now.
Everquest 2 wasn't it.
Warhammer wasn't it.
Age of Conan wasn't it.
Lord of the Rings Online, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
Aion wasn't it.
Rift wasn't it.
TERA wasn't it.
SWTOR, while being one of the only other MMO where I bothered to max level a character, wasn't it.
I didn't even bother buying TESO and Wildstar - I've gotten good at telling bad MMOs at a distance. Sure enough, reviews backed me up.
Everquest Next, I'm buying the second I can... HOPING that the makers of the old Everquest that I loved so much can *finally* put out a better product than WoW.
For me, it has positively nothing to do with Sunk Cost fallacy and everything to do with no MMO to date has been able to do what WoW has: grab my attention and keep it for years.
WoW is good or great for the people who have been playing it for the last 10 years. But you know?, you have out there an insane amount of gamers or MMO players who never played WoW or just dont like it at all, they are scattered playing other games.
And like i said before, the 7 mill of subs number is a bit tricky.
wish EQ2 would be mmorpg king todays. but game engine...:/
Isn't that true for any game which is as old as WOW? EQ? EQ2? Daoc etc?
Or you are saying sunk cost and time is only something unique to WOW.
Its been 10 years guys i suggest stop downplaying WOW's success.
Same! I've subbed to EQ, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, LoTRO, UO, and I've even played some of them for years at a time. Actually, I'll probably even sub to SWTOR again, since I enjoy playing it with my kids. WoW is still king of the castle though. It's simply better.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Not only do we have the same tastes, we're on the same WoW Realm. Hail, Fellow Dreamer.
I returned part-time to WoW, mainly because of my son who got into the game recently. It is easy to quest together so that was one of the major reasons for me to resub though I am into SWTOR and TESO.
If TESO would have better group-play (less phasing excluding your partner), we would probably play that though.
--------------------------------------------
Youtube newb:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC96N3cxBuqKTPV2BQNlzGUw
It's a game, 100% of it is a waste of time... thats the point, we have time to waste so we play a game.
I keep coming back to WoW for it's gameplay, you know the nitty gritty stuff, the feel of combat and animations, how it all works together. No other MMO comes close.
As for these threads and why I keep coming back to threads where insecure people need validation for their choices, I have no idea why I keep coming back.
I'm gonna rain on your sunk cost.
As far as sunk cost, I feel I have no ties to my characters in game at the moment because I have 14 90's and am working on two more this past week. I find the only reward from the game that is solid is leveling. There is no solid connection to my characters when it's cheaper and easier just to start a new one and move some heirlooms around. I only raid/allowed to raid with 1 toon and my guild got bored before we finished normal mode Garrosh. I've seen the inside of LFR upside down and backwards on 11 Dwarves and one horde Panda and it's gotten quite stale. I've done flex on my choice raiding toon, but it doesn't appeal as much as completing it with a group of friends.
I reactivated, again, because of your other two reasons. There is nothing else out there that currently fits my personal niche, which is Dwarfs/Dwarves.
My guild quit, I doubt they are coming back, so I moved servers to make new friends, joined a more PVP oriented guild and am hoping to bloody my knuckles with them.
So TLDR:
Sunk cost - The majority of things are too easy to accomplish in WoW, it's very easy to reroll and move on.
Lack of Anything else - True, there isn't a great Medieval Fantasy game that fills my Tolkien niche. (LOTRO is...eh)
Popularity - It's the devil I know, as opposed to trying another game that doesn't have what I want in terms of races/classes and time period.
Do you presume that the 7 million people playing have been here from the start? Thats absurd. Also the reasons that so many people, thou on a rapid decline, are playing are more complex. I guess what you ment to discuss was why 'longtimers' keep playing, but again their number is way way way less than the 7 mil. You should rather be asking how Blizzard have been so succesful getting new subs. Cause they keep the numbers up. The answer to that question Can undoubtfully be approached from many angles. Branding, marketing, accessibility, a good story in game, a good game in other aspects etc etc etc have placed WoW as a cultural phenomenon unlike most, if not all, games. This could also be related to its theme being adventure inspired ,with orcs and elves, that so many people came to love from reading and later watching Lord of the Rings. But again its prevalience is Way more complex.
You don't play the same shit for over a year no matter how good it is same way you won't eat the same thing every day 3x a day if you can have something else.
Nr.1 reason wow is still going: most of their players don't know about other games. Ask in your guild arround and most didnt even hear of half the mmorpgs out there. They don't try to have a choice and don't choose -that's why they are still stuck in wow.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
This would be funny and/or ironic if you had not edited Rusque's post.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.