Holy crap, did he just give you an example of Klingon in his argument? Haha, wow lost all respect for your argument with that.
Whats the problem with giving an example in Klingon? Is it somehow a taboo or illegal to do such a thing? The prejudice is stron on this one.
Maybe they were cheap and did'nt hire Korean translators who were familiar with the language enough to translate it fast? Maybe they are having problems with the server infrastructure? Marketing stunt? Who knows? No one in here has any hard facts.
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Can someone seriously explain me, why is it taking so long ?
Many people tired.
Maybe they should get some rest?
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Whatever.
For fanboy they can say it takes them 2 year because the red color is too red in game and they needed to hire color specialist to convert every red color in game into less red.
And I would have here a fanboy arguing how its very logical and valid.
Point is : lame excuse is lame.
And for whatever reason they are witholding the game, its not because of translation
Can someone seriously explain me, why is it taking so long ?
They say they are westernizing the game. What does it even mean, beyond translating ?
Is the game played with chopsticks instead of mouse, and you are reviving monsters instead of killing them, and quests are done reverse where you give quest and NPC does the quest ?
I mean what. Is it not the same game ? Can we not play the same game as Koreans ?
they need make a cash shop and milk money the longer they can
and then, translate the game but in this order !!!
It's either a lie or they've hired low quality translators.
Sure, I've read all the "it's difficult" excuses in this thread. And sure... I'm not a professional and I poorly speak my language let alone any others.
HOWEVER, there are people who are literally paid to translate languages in real time. Look at meetings between foreign nations where leaders don't speak english, look at UN meetings etc. People speak, sometimes for extended amounts of time, and WHILE this is happening (read: in real time) this is being translated to another language for the respective representatives to listen to. This isn't something that takes 2 days, 20 minutes, or even 5, it takes like a second or two.
Now, granted, these are likely some of the best translators in the world, however, the people that have been hired aren't likely some student taking Korean 101 at a community college.
Even with more difficult expressions to translate the game isn't novel-length and full of awkward Korean expressions and slang, most of it is going to be generic "Welcome to my shop" type talk.
You could sell me that they hired really crappy translators, but you'll never sell me that it's just impossible to do in a reasonable amount of time.
When it comes to businesses you always look at the money and when I look at the money and how many weekend long closed betas they've had on a game that's already live all I see is an attempt to grab more pre-order payoffs.
"HEY GUYS, PLAY FOR ONE WEEKEND, GET ADDICTED, THEN GIVE US $50 TO PLAY THIS GAME IN BETWEEN THE WEEKENDS!!!!!"
edit to add: Yeah, game is already translated, cash shop integration isn't something new or difficult, this is likely just a cash grab.
DMKano explained everything for you guys...I would be too tired to go further. If you can't accept logic...which he put forth...I dunno how else to help you. It takes as long as they need...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
It's either a lie or they've hired low quality translators.
Sure, I've read all the "it's difficult" excuses in this thread. And sure... I'm not a professional and I poorly speak my language let alone any others.
HOWEVER, there are people who are literally paid to translate languages in real time. Look at meetings between foreign nations where leaders don't speak english, look at UN meetings etc. People speak, sometimes for extended amounts of time, and WHILE this is happening (read: in real time) this is being translated to another language for the respective representatives to listen to. This isn't something that takes 2 days, 20 minutes, or even 5, it takes like a second or two.
Now, granted, these are likely some of the best translators in the world, however, the people that have been hired aren't likely some student taking Korean 101 at a community college.
Even with more difficult expressions to translate the game isn't novel-length and full of awkward Korean expressions and slang, most of it is going to be generic "Welcome to my shop" type talk.
You could sell me that they hired really crappy translators, but you'll never sell me that it's just impossible to do in a reasonable amount of time.
When it comes to businesses you always look at the money and when I look at the money and how many weekend long closed betas they've had on a game that's already live all I see is an attempt to grab more pre-order payoffs.
"HEY GUYS, PLAY FOR ONE WEEKEND, GET ADDICTED, THEN GIVE US $50 TO PLAY THIS GAME IN BETWEEN THE WEEKENDS!!!!!"
edit to add: Yeah, game is already translated, cash shop integration isn't something new or difficult, this is likely just a cash grab.
This is how I see it too.
IT's a thought for thought process, you read in one language you write in another. Someone who is fluent in both need not be concerned with how complex the language is since they can already think in it conceptually. To someone who knows both Korean and English together, it's no different to read in Korean and re write in English than it is to read in Korean and re write in Korean.
When it comes to businesses you always look at the money and when I look at the money and how many weekend long closed betas they've had on a game that's already live all I see is an attempt to grab more pre-order payoffs.
"HEY GUYS, PLAY FOR ONE WEEKEND, GET ADDICTED, THEN GIVE US $50 TO PLAY THIS GAME IN BETWEEN THE WEEKENDS!!!!!"
edit to add: Yeah, game is already translated, cash shop integration isn't something new or difficult, this is likely just a cash grab.
+2
The only other option I see as being even remotely plausible is they are trying to use the eternal BETA to leverage XL to make changes they want.
It's quite interesting how you all got caught up in this 'complexity' debate when this is clearly a mathematical problem.
Lets go hypothetical here for a moment and come up with some fake numbers:
There are 1000 words be translated.
Translator english/german can handle 1000words/hour.
Total for the task: 1 hour
Add Korean complexity. Let's say it DOUBLES translator time.
Translator korean/english can handle 500words/hour
Total for the task: 2 hours.
Solution: hire a 2nd translator. Complexity nullified.
In my line of work I have to translate manuals from portuguese to english and vice-versa. The manuals are divided into three parts for which we use 3 people. If it's a rush job we hire an extra translator or 2. 1000 words per hour is a good standard speed. I have no experience with korean but I wouldn't think it'd be much different than the complexity of translating say technical or scientific documents. That adds a little bit of research and halves the speed most of the time.
So back to the maths problem....they could translate everything in a week or a month or a year. It just depends on how much there is to translate and how many people they use. We don't know this.
The OP made a correlation between the long wait till the game is released and translation time. Translation might have an impact, but there might be many other reasons, we don't really know.
Originally posted by raggnir they want to sell as many founder packs as possible, that's all. no bullshit about translation time. i followed this game since its development, and all that time to translate is complete bullshit
I believe this to be true. Also I believe they are dealing with translating the actual computer languages. For example if archeage was coded with a specific engine that only runs on Mac computers then they need to reprogram a lot of parts so they are now compatable with the western computer languages. The game is live in Korea and has been for over a year now. There is an obvious communication barrier between Korean computer code and Western computer code. Which is why the Korean game has zero memory leaks and the Western game is still finding and fixing these issues.
So simple lets take the program from the Korean server and simply upload it to the Western server and everything is fixed. Well that has to be modified to match all other items within the western internet structure. For example they have to make sure the current stream codes that connect to the outbound traffic lines are compatable with their current configuration.
Basically they have to write drivers for their hardware to work with the new software or vice versa.
Well I am sure the people who wasted $50+ on the game would be pretty sore if alpha and beta was over in a few months.
Those packs are a huge incentive for them not to release the game quicker. Not sure if its true, but why give people something for free if you can get $50+ from them instead.
^ Here is your answer. Make as much money as you can before the game is free.
IT's a thought for thought process, you read in one language you write in another. Someone who is fluent in both need not be concerned with how complex the language is since they can already think in it conceptually. To someone who knows both Korean and English together, it's no different to read in Korean and re write in English than it is to read in Korean and re write in Korean.
You know.. I have to agree with you OP. No sarcasm or trolling intended but this is taking an extremely long time to translate. I haven't participated since the first closed beta test due to this situation. Pretty disappointing such a key thing wasn't translated. Guess we will just have to wait until Q4 2015 for the complete translation.
It's quite interesting how you all got caught up in this 'complexity' debate when this is clearly a mathematical problem.
Lets go hypothetical here for a moment and come up with some fake numbers:
There are 1000 words be translated.
Translator english/german can handle 1000words/hour.
Total for the task: 1 hour
Add Korean complexity. Let's say it DOUBLES translator time.
Translator korean/english can handle 500words/hour
Total for the task: 2 hours.
Solution: hire a 2nd translator. Complexity nullified.
In my line of work I have to translate manuals from portuguese to english and vice-versa. The manuals are divided into three parts for which we use 3 people. If it's a rush job we hire an extra translator or 2. 1000 words per hour is a good standard speed. I have no experience with korean but I wouldn't think it'd be much different than the complexity of translating say technical or scientific documents. That adds a little bit of research and halves the speed most of the time.
So back to the maths problem....they could translate everything in a week or a month or a year. It just depends on how much there is to translate and how many people they use. We don't know this.
The OP made a correlation between the long wait till the game is released and translation time. Translation might have an impact, but there might be many other reasons, we don't really know.
It's quite interesting how you all like to downplay the complexity issue.
Since you want to bring in numbers, so will I.
The Witcher series. Is a single player rpg series for PC. The Witcher 1 had 20 thousand lines of dialogue. The Witcher 2 had 23 thousand. The Witcher 3(still in development) has 30 thousand and counting.
This is just a single player rpg. An mmo will always have far far more than a single player rpg. Now, i don't know about you, but im pretty sure 30 thousand lines of text, is way more than the manuals you are used to translating. Furthermore, there's alot of humor injected into quest text that carry a completely different connotation in korea than it would in US/EU.
Also, with your "hire more translators" logic, you'd also say developers all around should just hire more programmers to write code faster.
You are all really undermineing the issue of localization of any game let alone a game as huge as a MMO. There are many more issues other than a simple translation.
Firstly lets assume some of you are correct in saying 1000words to translate takes an hour.
Its not a simple word to word.. the actual words are embedded in a code, its not a book or a manual it is a software programme.. each seed grows and combines and that thing then mixes and changed with something else, all these things are coded and the actual code of the game has to be altered drastically, obviously I am no expert on the matter and won't pretend to be. But I noticed a little thing on the Russian version of the game where the Ranch public farms were called Gardens.. and this took weeks to fix as it requires a lot of work on the actual code of the game.. ofc it probably could be fixed within hours or whatever (again im no expert)
Next we have quality assurance.. Korean satisfaction, especially on videogames is very different to that of western expectations, I know this to be a fact. If we get a game that simply sucks and won't work, after paying £109 to play.. we would be FU**ing pissed. And thats just the way it is.
Only guessing, but i suppose korean opperating systems are also somewhat different to ours which also needs coding time and such.
Also our version of the game have other minor tweeks and canges. as,again,we are much more picky with our video games the the koreans.
Finnally, what i belive is one of the biggest time syncs for development of a MMO are servers. an MMO required riddiculous server horsepower. I mean look at the release of Diablo 3. impossible to log in for at least a week at release due to server load. and that from a developer as huge as Blizzard, who run THE MMO, and they made a bad judegement call and needed to increase server sizes.This also requires significant coding.
If you want a good, smooth experiance upon release, you'll be quite and wait.
All this being said. The Russian version is already in open Beta, and translateing from Russian -> English is not only much easier, it has been done independatly by modders about 3-4 months ago, although the game got patched and ruined the mod, and due to reduced ammount of intrested the people that did it gave up. ( i am led to belive it was much more than simply google translateing a bunch of words)
*Edit* ALso, to take into account, the fact that Westernizeing the game, means making it available for people in the EU and NA, which means traslateing the game not only into English but also French and German.
All this taken into acocunt I am Still wondering why the release, or open beta release is taking so long. I mean its understandable if its two guys in a garage somewhere working on it.
You are all really undermineing the issue of localization of any game let alone a game as huge as a MMO. There are many more issues other than a simple translation.
Firstly lets assume some of you are correct in saying 1000words to translate takes an hour.
Its not a simple word to word.. the actual words are embedded in a code, its not a book or a manual it is a software programme.. each seed grows and combines and that thing then mixes and changed with something else, all these things are coded and the actual code of the game has to be altered drastically, obviously I am no expert on the matter and won't pretend to be. But I noticed a little thing on the Russian version of the game where the Ranch public farms were called Gardens.. and this took weeks to fix as it requires a lot of work on the actual code of the game.. ofc it probably could be fixed within hours or whatever (again im no expert)
Going off this I have to disagree my brotha. I am no expert like you said as well... but we have evidence that supports it is much easier than developers make it seem. Before the English version even had access for anyone (including the founders) there was a patch for the Korean version to translate a portion of the game into English.
Was it perfect by any means? Absolutely not. But it was a patch done by people who did not have access to the code. They simply translated text of game files. I have the patience to wait.. i'm just voicing my concern for their development. What does it say about the company that it takes this long to westernize a game? Who knows though, for all I know their focus could be on other things and translation is on the back burner with a small group of people working on it.
You are all really undermineing the issue of localization of any game let alone a game as huge as a MMO. There are many more issues other than a simple translation.
Firstly lets assume some of you are correct in saying 1000words to translate takes an hour.
Its not a simple word to word.. the actual words are embedded in a code, its not a book or a manual it is a software programme.. each seed grows and combines and that thing then mixes and changed with something else, all these things are coded and the actual code of the game has to be altered drastically, obviously I am no expert on the matter and won't pretend to be. But I noticed a little thing on the Russian version of the game where the Ranch public farms were called Gardens.. and this took weeks to fix as it requires a lot of work on the actual code of the game.. ofc it probably could be fixed within hours or whatever (again im no expert)
Going off this I have to disagree my brotha. I am no expert like you said as well... but we have evidence that supports it is much easier than developers make it seem. Before the English version even had access for anyone (including the founders) there was a patch for the Korean version to translate a portion of the game into English.
Was it perfect by any means? Absolutely not. But it was a patch done by people who did not have access to the code. They simply translated text of game files. I have the patience to wait.. i'm just voicing my concern for their development. What does it say about the company that it takes this long to westernize a game? Who knows though, for all I know their focus could be on other things and translation is on the back burner with a small group of people working on it.
And just how long does it take to westernize a game? You have some statistics to show? Trion hasn't had the game that long. They announced their partnership with XLGames back in Jan 2013. Alpha was what, like Apr 2014, it's now nearly September... and speculation has it going live very soon, so that's what, under 2 years total. What other games were westernized in under 2 years?
I think it takes so long because they are not just "translating" the language. While I have no doubt translating a Altaic language to a germanic language might not be as easy as some think I do believe it takes so long because they do other changes as well in the code itself.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Would be faster if they would only translate it, but they need to "westernize" if for some stupid reason. Like all jokes and stuff. That takes longer
Fan translations are always better, maybe not professional, but they are most of the time honoring the original content/script
Originally posted by breadm1x
Yeah wish wish they stoping makin stuff in german and french.
Dont realy see the need for it, and it costs money and time to.
Its 2014 if u cant speak or read english u should not be playing online games but going back to school.
I was in Namibia once, like allmost no TV's or Internet but i could talk with like 99% of them in perfect english.
So i got no CLUE why in Germany or French they cant speak english.
They are proud of their culture and language and don't want it to be ruined by english "trash" culture. Same with japanese entertainment products, most of them stay only in japan and are not sold outside to protect the culture
Comments
Whats the problem with giving an example in Klingon? Is it somehow a taboo or illegal to do such a thing? The prejudice is stron on this one.
Maybe they were cheap and did'nt hire Korean translators who were familiar with the language enough to translate it fast? Maybe they are having problems with the server infrastructure? Marketing stunt? Who knows? No one in here has any hard facts.
Maybe they should get some rest?
Good job derailing your own thread.they need make a cash shop and milk money the longer they can
and then, translate the game
but in this order !!!
It's either a lie or they've hired low quality translators.
Sure, I've read all the "it's difficult" excuses in this thread. And sure... I'm not a professional and I poorly speak my language let alone any others.
HOWEVER, there are people who are literally paid to translate languages in real time. Look at meetings between foreign nations where leaders don't speak english, look at UN meetings etc. People speak, sometimes for extended amounts of time, and WHILE this is happening (read: in real time) this is being translated to another language for the respective representatives to listen to. This isn't something that takes 2 days, 20 minutes, or even 5, it takes like a second or two.
Now, granted, these are likely some of the best translators in the world, however, the people that have been hired aren't likely some student taking Korean 101 at a community college.
Even with more difficult expressions to translate the game isn't novel-length and full of awkward Korean expressions and slang, most of it is going to be generic "Welcome to my shop" type talk.
You could sell me that they hired really crappy translators, but you'll never sell me that it's just impossible to do in a reasonable amount of time.
When it comes to businesses you always look at the money and when I look at the money and how many weekend long closed betas they've had on a game that's already live all I see is an attempt to grab more pre-order payoffs.
"HEY GUYS, PLAY FOR ONE WEEKEND, GET ADDICTED, THEN GIVE US $50 TO PLAY THIS GAME IN BETWEEN THE WEEKENDS!!!!!"
edit to add: Yeah, game is already translated, cash shop integration isn't something new or difficult, this is likely just a cash grab.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Wrong again.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
This is how I see it too.
IT's a thought for thought process, you read in one language you write in another. Someone who is fluent in both need not be concerned with how complex the language is since they can already think in it conceptually. To someone who knows both Korean and English together, it's no different to read in Korean and re write in English than it is to read in Korean and re write in Korean.
+2
The only other option I see as being even remotely plausible is they are trying to use the eternal BETA to leverage XL to make changes they want.
just translate the important stuff
not 1000000 lines of quest dialogs that noone read anyway :P
It's quite interesting how you all got caught up in this 'complexity' debate when this is clearly a mathematical problem.
Lets go hypothetical here for a moment and come up with some fake numbers:
There are 1000 words be translated.
Translator english/german can handle 1000words/hour.
Total for the task: 1 hour
Add Korean complexity. Let's say it DOUBLES translator time.
Translator korean/english can handle 500words/hour
Total for the task: 2 hours.
Solution: hire a 2nd translator. Complexity nullified.
In my line of work I have to translate manuals from portuguese to english and vice-versa. The manuals are divided into three parts for which we use 3 people. If it's a rush job we hire an extra translator or 2. 1000 words per hour is a good standard speed. I have no experience with korean but I wouldn't think it'd be much different than the complexity of translating say technical or scientific documents. That adds a little bit of research and halves the speed most of the time.
So back to the maths problem....they could translate everything in a week or a month or a year. It just depends on how much there is to translate and how many people they use. We don't know this.
The OP made a correlation between the long wait till the game is released and translation time. Translation might have an impact, but there might be many other reasons, we don't really know.
I believe this to be true. Also I believe they are dealing with translating the actual computer languages. For example if archeage was coded with a specific engine that only runs on Mac computers then they need to reprogram a lot of parts so they are now compatable with the western computer languages. The game is live in Korea and has been for over a year now. There is an obvious communication barrier between Korean computer code and Western computer code. Which is why the Korean game has zero memory leaks and the Western game is still finding and fixing these issues.
So simple lets take the program from the Korean server and simply upload it to the Western server and everything is fixed. Well that has to be modified to match all other items within the western internet structure. For example they have to make sure the current stream codes that connect to the outbound traffic lines are compatable with their current configuration.
Basically they have to write drivers for their hardware to work with the new software or vice versa.
^ Here is your answer. Make as much money as you can before the game is free.
^ this as well!
Thing is that it aint only translations.
US/EU gets a totaly diffrent version of Archeage.
So XLgames is working on 3 diffrent verions of the game.
Korean / Russian / US+EU
Each with their own desires and designs for cash shop / builds / changes / patches.
This is a HUGE task even for a big studio.
It's quite interesting how you all like to downplay the complexity issue.
Since you want to bring in numbers, so will I.
The Witcher series. Is a single player rpg series for PC. The Witcher 1 had 20 thousand lines of dialogue. The Witcher 2 had 23 thousand. The Witcher 3(still in development) has 30 thousand and counting.
This is just a single player rpg. An mmo will always have far far more than a single player rpg. Now, i don't know about you, but im pretty sure 30 thousand lines of text, is way more than the manuals you are used to translating. Furthermore, there's alot of humor injected into quest text that carry a completely different connotation in korea than it would in US/EU.
Also, with your "hire more translators" logic, you'd also say developers all around should just hire more programmers to write code faster.You are all really undermineing the issue of localization of any game let alone a game as huge as a MMO. There are many more issues other than a simple translation.
Firstly lets assume some of you are correct in saying 1000words to translate takes an hour.
Its not a simple word to word.. the actual words are embedded in a code, its not a book or a manual it is a software programme.. each seed grows and combines and that thing then mixes and changed with something else, all these things are coded and the actual code of the game has to be altered drastically, obviously I am no expert on the matter and won't pretend to be. But I noticed a little thing on the Russian version of the game where the Ranch public farms were called Gardens.. and this took weeks to fix as it requires a lot of work on the actual code of the game.. ofc it probably could be fixed within hours or whatever (again im no expert)
Next we have quality assurance.. Korean satisfaction, especially on videogames is very different to that of western expectations, I know this to be a fact. If we get a game that simply sucks and won't work, after paying £109 to play.. we would be FU**ing pissed. And thats just the way it is.
Only guessing, but i suppose korean opperating systems are also somewhat different to ours which also needs coding time and such.
Also our version of the game have other minor tweeks and canges. as,again,we are much more picky with our video games the the koreans.
Finnally, what i belive is one of the biggest time syncs for development of a MMO are servers. an MMO required riddiculous server horsepower. I mean look at the release of Diablo 3. impossible to log in for at least a week at release due to server load. and that from a developer as huge as Blizzard, who run THE MMO, and they made a bad judegement call and needed to increase server sizes.This also requires significant coding.
If you want a good, smooth experiance upon release, you'll be quite and wait.
All this being said. The Russian version is already in open Beta, and translateing from Russian -> English is not only much easier, it has been done independatly by modders about 3-4 months ago, although the game got patched and ruined the mod, and due to reduced ammount of intrested the people that did it gave up. ( i am led to belive it was much more than simply google translateing a bunch of words)
*Edit* ALso, to take into account, the fact that Westernizeing the game, means making it available for people in the EU and NA, which means traslateing the game not only into English but also French and German.
All this taken into acocunt I am Still wondering why the release, or open beta release is taking so long. I mean its understandable if its two guys in a garage somewhere working on it.
Going off this I have to disagree my brotha. I am no expert like you said as well... but we have evidence that supports it is much easier than developers make it seem. Before the English version even had access for anyone (including the founders) there was a patch for the Korean version to translate a portion of the game into English.
Was it perfect by any means? Absolutely not. But it was a patch done by people who did not have access to the code. They simply translated text of game files. I have the patience to wait.. i'm just voicing my concern for their development. What does it say about the company that it takes this long to westernize a game? Who knows though, for all I know their focus could be on other things and translation is on the back burner with a small group of people working on it.
And just how long does it take to westernize a game? You have some statistics to show? Trion hasn't had the game that long. They announced their partnership with XLGames back in Jan 2013. Alpha was what, like Apr 2014, it's now nearly September... and speculation has it going live very soon, so that's what, under 2 years total. What other games were westernized in under 2 years?
I think it takes so long because they are not just "translating" the language. While I have no doubt translating a Altaic language to a germanic language might not be as easy as some think I do believe it takes so long because they do other changes as well in the code itself.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Language? Ok, here's mine.
Yeah wish wish they stoping makin stuff in german and french.
Dont realy see the need for it, and it costs money and time to.
Its 2014 if u cant speak or read english u should not be playing online games but going back to school.
I was in Namibia once, like allmost no TV's or Internet but i could talk with like 99% of them in perfect english.
So i got no CLUE why in Germany or French they cant speak english.
Would be faster if they would only translate it, but they need to "westernize" if for some stupid reason. Like all jokes and stuff. That takes longer
Fan translations are always better, maybe not professional, but they are most of the time honoring the original content/script
They are proud of their culture and language and don't want it to be ruined by english "trash" culture. Same with japanese entertainment products, most of them stay only in japan and are not sold outside to protect the culture