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Do we blame players too readily for bad games?
PioneerStew
Member Posts: 874
My point is simply this, if people do not want to play a game, then surely the game is at fault and not the players?
I see a lot of comments to the affect of players wanting easy-mode or having an instant-win mentality? Surely these are just excuses for bad games failing?
If you are unable to make a product that appeals to the market, then your product fails, this is true of all products, why do we make so many excuses for games?
Comments
So I'll pretty much put it like this. Its both the player-base and the companies fault. Its the player-bases fault for not really researching and/or understanding both the game and the company backing it. Its the companies fault because so many are just trying to make a quick buck off founder packs, subscriptions, cash shops and then either p2w games into the ground or just shut them down because they dont meet the company's income expectations.
Granted I have nothing against subscriptions and honestly love subscription games for a lot of reaons. However, its hard for me to personally invest in one since most of them end up going b2p/f2p in a year or 2 after launch. Call me cheap (mainly cause I am) or whatever, but I'll probably remain a f2p player with the occassional sub to WoW to clear content until a sub game lasts longer than a year with a decent playerbase. SE doesn't count since they are just stubborn and honestly money hungry. Learned that after 8 years of FFXI.
Paragraphs, please use them.
You're trying to take three unrelated discussions (blame the game not the players, players wanting easy mode, a game not delivering for its target market) and mash them together. To walk through each question, though:
Yes and No. Reading these boards, you'll get the very distinct impression that many feel that every game should cater to them.
What MMOs supposedly failed because they were considered too hard?
You'll have to give an example of where a game failed and people were making excuses for it in order to answer that. Please... PLEASE... for my personal amusement, use SWTOR as your example.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So, in essence, these games are being made for the purchases a few (minority) players, instead of a majority of players.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
So true.. so true.. The gaming companies know darn well that a large number of the market will buy the product based on hype the first month is releases.. Too many people buy into the "sizzle" and not the steak.. However business is business.. Caveat emptor.. If players continue to buy short lived half baked games, gaming companies will continue to make them.. Even expansions for successful games seem to get thinner and thinner, but still ask for a full price..
You ask for an example of a game that failed because it is too hard.... let me think about this, a failing game that aimed for the hardcore crowd... hmmm, can't think of one. dum-dee-dum, oh hang on, WS.
SWTOR is an example of a game that had a solid foundation but limited content, but is now incredibly successful using a F2P (silly name) monetisation system. Why would you want me to use that as a an example? It is clearly a bad example since it is doing very well....
If you ran a business and people bought your product no matter the quality,i think it would encourage you and others to flood that same market.
Look at LOL a VERY simple game to make,even worse is Farmville can't get any cheaper than that and it made multi millions and selling it's rights also made millions in spin offs.Both those markets have been flooded over the last few years all because others see success.It is really the same reason so many copied Wow,not for quality but just because the ysaw success to do the same thing.
We still see very low budget poorly textured games on the market because again some see some success and figure why spend more or put more effort into our games if people are supporting less quality.
There are people and devs making money off of simple apps or very simple phone IOS games,it is because there is always a market for people who just like to spend money freely.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There are so many factors involved, spanning human behaviour and preferences, their living conditions, etc. you can't just blame the product. This is just a broad statement.
For instance, if I said I loved WildStar and Firefall, I meant to play both regularly even through the flaws. It's just my choice, and I can explain each element that I like about both - and it's all about the product, the sum of it's parts. There must be something there to like first before any player can react on whether it gets a positive or a negative. But from there, it's all the player's choice (they can hate it or love it).
I'm allergic to peanuts, you are not. They put out a peanut butter sandwich. You're delighted, I end up in the hospital. Clearly there is no way to create a game that fits all.
Blame falls on the players when the title is Hello Kitty Online and they want Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Blame falls on the developers when they promise open world housing and you get instanced housing.
Apples and oranges.
I hate peanuts.
When a product is launch in the market, for more great that might be, theres allways who like it and those who dont.
Why should games be diferent?
Its time to people stop complain about games that they dont like.
Why should someone must like every game that is released?
I dont like McDonalds and i dont go there complain about that.
I just want to make sure I understand you here:
You are saying Wildstar has failed because it is too hard?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Whether the product is good or not, it's always the consumers' choice whether to buy it or not. Even when they do get swindled by getting something that wasn't 'as promised', the buyer made the risk. Next time they'll know the risk, they know the company. Bad product = angry consumers=loss of revenue for company.
Was there a mention of Wildstar? I loved that game. Firefall is also in my "currently playing" list.
nah .. BS for you .. fun games for others. You mistake is to think if you think it is "BS", then it is BS for others too.
I only play fun games for myself, and in the last 10 years, i have yet to play a game (more than 15 min) that is not fun for me. So there is no BS whatsoever.
Did Wildstar fail?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
This whole mindset of blaming either players or companies, or that something is a fail for whatever reason is ludicrous.
A company makes a game, ppl play it. If it makes enough profit, it goes on. If it doesn't, the company tries different things to make it profitable.
Your only input is whether or not you want to play it.
Blaming anyone for something you believe is either bad or 'failing' is simply a justification for wanting to be right in that opinion.
Old games still out there like EQ1, Lineage, etc that still exist cannot be considered 'fail' as they're still making the company some money, otherwise they would have closed down. Period. A company does not keep a game running if it's losing money for them.
I wasn't even going to touch that part of it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
My sister's youngest just brought home a note from school that there is someone in her class that is deadly allergic to perfumes. No one in her class is allowed to use perfumed soaps or shampoos. There is no such thing as perfume-less toiletries! Or laundry detergents. This is a city. How is that kid going to survive?
...
More to the topic. There is an accusation going around against gamers for buying into crap games, proliferating crappy game reincarnation and existence.
I'm not convinced these gamers are being seduced away from better games. I think they really do like those crappy games and are happy where they've spent their buck. If that makes them silly spenders oh well. Maybe it's the only pirate game and they really want to role play a pirate. Set that group aside and let them have what they want.
Next group of silly spenders on crap games: those who buy the first game with hype, play it, call it crap, uninstall and into the trash and in the store of their choice for the next game with hype. Wash, rinse, repeat. These people are BORED with no constructive JOBS but someone in their family makes lots of MONEY. I don't even blame them. They're the product of a modern tech age and over controlling government.
If a game is truly crap it's hype will wash away over time and it will die. If it is not dead then there really was some meat in there somewhere. Yes this will encourage others to make crappy games. Just like there is always someone who wants to make a crappy movie and some noob who will watch it with tear streaked joy (the way I drool over the Sharknado series). But once in a while someone will come along with the funding to develop a game they want the people to love and not think of as crap. The special circumstances for their success just doesn't happen often, sorry.
I think much of the player base bashing comes from people in the industry. The echo chamber mentality of the industry and it's paid shills doesn't allow them to be critical of their own product. They attribute all success to their own genius and all failures on a bunch of unwashed idiots sometimes referred to as the customer.
Is this based on people you know, something you read, or just some random belief? I experience the exact opposite among developers, so I'm curious where this comes from.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Players are 100% to blame for games being very bad. This is why Developers should not have suggestion forums anymore and should make a game and let the game find its audience. For example there are people who want PVE servers in AA which will defeat the purpose of the game. So there is NO risk to move good from point A to point B and there is no player interaction. But these people want it that way to suit their personal desire not what is good for the game.
The same can be said about WOW. Players want Easy Mode Normals and LFR but when it comes to harder content they have no clue about stepping up and being a better player. They expect to be TRAINED in a progression raid not LFR or Normal instances. They dont want to be forced to move out of Fire, have a kill order, or do anything that would require more than tunnelling the boss. Yet they complain when the same LFR type content is not in Normal raiding and blame everyone else but themselves for wanting content that is no better than a WALFARE EPIC PLEASE Button.