I dont play that games so i dont comment. LP is a chalenge in-game where we need to learn to use it wise to reach some objectives. Again, im only talking about pure gameplay and not the business model. Buy and sell in AH is a huge part of the game to those who want to maximize the LP consume.
I dont like CS, for me it shouldnt exist, only care about what i can do with 13 euros per month. I did that playing in RU with half of the current LP regen and i was happy.
The LP system is not a Challenge. It's an artificial Energy gauge system to frustrate dedicated (addicted) players and make them buy LP pots in the store to continue.
It has nothing to do realism. It has nothing to do with balancing crafting, harvesting and selling nor protecting the ingame economy.
As people with big wallets keep on buying LP pots over multiple Patron status accounts and characters, race to the top, flood and corner the entire market in no time when the game releases. They can exhaust over 8000 LP per character per day!
Everyone else will be out of the Picture and won't stand a chance against these practices.
And this my friend. Is the text book example of Pay 2 Win.
It doesn't have to be endgame gear in the store. That is a very narrowminded way of thinking (by many People here on these forums) that that only is Pay 2 Win. There are many ways (much better disguisable ways) of putting P2W items in the Cash Shop.
Putting gambling boxes in the store, that have a chance to drop ultra rare high end crafting materials. Is just another of many examples.
Trust me when I say I'm very, very sad to agree with you
Don't get me wrong, Archeage is a hell of a game, but this LP implementation is getting worse everyday... and this will not balance the economy, not one bit.
I dont play that games so i dont comment. LP is a chalenge in-game where we need to learn to use it wise to reach some objectives. Again, im only talking about pure gameplay and not the business model. Buy and sell in AH is a huge part of the game to those who want to maximize the LP consume.
I dont like CS, for me it shouldnt exist, only care about what i can do with 13 euros per month. I did that playing in RU with half of the current LP regen and i was happy.
The LP system is not a Challenge. It's an artificial Energy gauge system to frustrate dedicated (addicted) players and make them buy LP pots in the store to continue.
It has nothing to do realism. It has nothing to do with balancing crafting, harvesting and selling nor protecting the ingame economy.
As people with big wallets keep on buying LP pots over multiple Patron status accounts and characters, race to the top, flood and corner the entire market in no time when the game releases. They can exhaust over 8000 LP per character per day!
Everyone else will be out of the Picture and won't stand a chance against these practices.
And this my friend. Is the text book example of Pay 2 Win.
It doesn't have to be endgame gear in the store. That is a very narrowminded way of thinking (by many People here on these forums) that that only is Pay 2 Win. There are many ways (much better disguisable ways) of putting P2W items in the Cash Shop.
Putting gambling boxes in the store, that have a chance to drop ultra rare high end crafting materials. Is just another of many examples.
Well, maybe i shouldnt use "LP is a chalenge" like it was a fact to all players, my bad here.
For me it is a chalenge that i like to play around, ajust my LP consume based on my current objective and play with others directly (friends) or indirectly (AH) was important to not suffer from lack of LP in the end of the day.
I dont imagine AA whithout a LP system. Now its well implemented? maybe not, i agree that could be better and shouldnt be connected to CS.
Im not dumb neither a genious so my opinions might change in future, i know that for now i can have alot of fun in-game only with Patron status. If thats going to change i cant tell.
In the end i agree with some critics about CS but dont agree at all about LP should be remove from game.
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
So, the reality is that those who spend more money in the Cash Shop, will dominate those who don't. But hey, since they aren't really "winning" anything, the game can't be called P2W.
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
So, the reality is that those who spend more money in the Cash Shop, will dominate those who don't. But hey, since they aren't really "winning" anything, the game can't be called P2W.
Maybe we should just start using the term P2"W"
("W" being subjective)
Pay to Pwn... outside of dominating your opponent in PVP, you're not dominating anything.
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
So, the reality is that those who spend more money in the Cash Shop, will dominate those who don't. But hey, since they aren't really "winning" anything, the game can't be called P2W.
Maybe we should just start using the term P2"W"
("W" being subjective)
You might want to define dominate while you're at it.
If you're here complaining about it and not in some mega guild with a day one plan already worked out...you were never going to dominate anything anyway. It's going to be very hard for most of the vocal people to pick out who paid and who didn't when it comes to the sheer volume of people above them on the food chain.
In truth most of this is I don't like it so anyone else doing it is wrong. It was never about winning anything.
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
So, the reality is that those who spend more money in the Cash Shop, will dominate those who don't. But hey, since they aren't really "winning" anything, the game can't be called P2W.
Maybe we should just start using the term P2"W"
("W" being subjective)
Dominate what? Gathering? Crafting? Uprooting? Opening coin purses? I really don't understand the grand advantage that effects the landscape of the game.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Seems to prove that it is not worth investing money into a game pre release but to wait for the game to launch first to see if it is actually any good - the devs can change things as and when they wish and i am sure many founders feel conned now and rightly so, lesson learned maybe
You bet I do. That's $150 I might as well have set on fire and danced naked on in my backyard. I got to watch the entire process from the start of Trion's 'no tricks, no traps' line months and months ago, to their new 'aw heck with it' policy.
If they would just have kept it a sub/no-sub model with a cosmetic cash shop, it might have turned a profit, beyond the Founder packs. Now it will probably last a year or so and fizzle. I'll have a good laugh.
Same thing, ironically just happened with STO, wherein Cryptic basically said 'sorry about your last four years of playing, please pay us even more $ for new ships'. Yep, also a money write off.
Finally learned my lesson. No more founder's packs, no kickstarting, no crowd-funding, no early access, nothing. Ever. Make your games then try and sell them to me. Fooled me twice.
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
So, the reality is that those who spend more money in the Cash Shop, will dominate those who don't. But hey, since they aren't really "winning" anything, the game can't be called P2W.
Maybe we should just start using the term P2"W"
("W" being subjective)
You might want to define dominate while you're at it.
If you're here complaining about it and not in some mega guild with a day one plan already worked out...you were never going to dominate anything anyway. It's going to be very hard for most of the vocal people to pick out who paid and who didn't when it comes to the sheer volume of people above them on the food chain.
In truth most of this is I don't like it so anyone else doing it is wrong. It was never about winning anything.
You may have become enlightened and found the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, and thus have made your peace with this business model. But I haven't. I am still an ignorant loud mouth who thinks this is wrong for the genre, and will continue to speak out against it. If I am going to pay for a subscription, I want equal opportunity across the board. At least for those who play by the rules.
The fact that I was never going to dominate is relative. Forget the top dogs. What about within the same brackets? That other player who isn't much better than you, who you run across in the battle field and yet you don't stand a chance in hell against because he spends more in the shop? You are dead, he's not, simple as that but hey, at least in your heart, you know you worked harder for what you have than he did (In the game).
Joining Mega guilds doesn't fix the problem, it will still boil down to who collectively spends the most.
Post Edit:
Don't misunderstand what I said about accepting things I can't change. It' snot meant to be an insult. I am acknowledging your view and there is something to be said for that.
But I still fell that the message still needs to be sent to the publishers, no matter how much "Ching" is drowning me out.
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
So, the reality is that those who spend more money in the Cash Shop, will dominate those who don't. But hey, since they aren't really "winning" anything, the game can't be called P2W.
Maybe we should just start using the term P2"W"
("W" being subjective)
Dominate what? Gathering? Crafting? Uprooting? Opening coin purses? I really don't understand the grand advantage that effects the landscape of the game.
It's funny you should mention "landscape" because that's exactly what I was thinking.
As outspoken against this and similar business models as I am, I still think there certain points of this game's design that are good. For those of you who bought the founder's packs and are now feeling betrayed, Look at it like this. You got to play this game for probably about as long as what many play a post release game for. Not only that, you got to experience the game in a way most never will, you saw this game at it's potential. Before it became over-monetized. Looking back at the good things that were said of AA, I think that if you'd been playing since Founder's launched, you can't really say you haven't gotten something out of it. Whether or not you got the full value from it, well, that's subjective.
It's just that now, you have to change your expectations going forward and, yeah, that sucks for sure.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by KissThaRing
I decided to finally peak into these forums to see if it truely is the second coming of MMO's
Maybe you should stop interpreting people being excited over a game they want to play as them proclaiming it as the "second coming." The issue seems to lie with you, not the game.
The fact that I was never going to dominate is relative. Forget the top dogs. What about within the same brackets? That other player who isn't much better than you, who you run across in the battle field and yet you don't stand a chance in hell against because he spends more in the shop? You are dead, he's not, simple as that but hey, at least in your heart, you know you worked harder for what you have than he did (In the game).
Joining Mega guilds doesn't fix the problem, it will still boil down to who collectively spends the most.
And who is that guy ? how do you identify him in game from all the other players and make sure you only fight him? When someone kills you, will you feel better knowing they worked harder for it...how would you ever even know.
All of this is a forum argument that doesn't apply in game. When someone kills you you're dead. It doesn't make it ok if the player spends 18 hrs a day in game or $1000 a month. You died he didn't and if you need an excuse for that you'll find one no matter what.
If you're against the principle of spending more to get more fine be against it. But hypothetical arguments to rationalize it or make it sound better don't work for people who know how a pvp game really works. The groups of people who put the most into their collective goal will dominate the game. Money or no money these people will invest more into the game than anyone here ever will. The solo players no matter how much they spend will always just be prey when they run into these groups of people.
IMO this problem would be negligible if it was just a PvE game. Pot purchases would not be an issue but since this a PvP game any perceived advantage will seem unfair and objected to vehemently no matter how insignificant.
I dont play that games so idont comment. LP is a chalenge in-game where we need to learn to use it wise to reach some objectives. Again, im only talking about pure gameplay and not the business model. Buy and sell in AH is a huge part of the game to those who want to maximize the LP consume.
I dont like CS, for me it shouldnt exist, only care about what i can do with 13 euros per month. I did that playing in RU with half of the current LP regen and i was happy.
The LP system is not a Challenge. It's an artificial Energy gauge system to frustrate dedicated (addicted) players and make them buy LP pots in the store to continue.
It has nothing to do realism. It has nothing to do with balancing crafting, harvesting and selling nor protecting the ingame economy.
As people with big wallets keep on buying LP pots over multiple Patron status accounts and characters, race to the top, flood and corner the entire market in no time when the game releases. They can exhaust over 8000 LP per character per day!
Everyone else will be out of the Picture and won't stand a chance against these practices.
And this my friend. Is the text book example of Pay 2 Win.
It doesn't have to be endgame gear in the store. That is a very narrowminded way of thinking (by many People here on these forums) that that only is Pay 2 Win. There are many ways (much better disguisable ways) of putting P2W items in the Cash Shop.
Putting gambling boxes in the store, that have a chance to drop ultra rare high end crafting materials. Is just another of many examples.
you hit the nail on the head i started this morning with 5000 labor and was down to 0 in 3 hours. Downed a pot for 1000 labor and spent it on a level 40 item for a friend. Sad really i enjoyed the game before 1.2 but after it is not a game i will be playing for long. Who want to get all your drops for a market chest i want to go our and hunt mobs for my drops not buy them from the market. The urchin is used in all weapons, armor and jewelry. Jewelry is broken by its self only stamina items can be used to make the next higher tier. So at level 40 you have a chance of 1:1024 to make aintel ring and that's not counting quality .level.
I wrote it two times on these forums already, with Trion at the controls people will be in for one or another upset - I just didn't expect it to happen before launch already.
And Trion isn't even in desperation mode about AA! Wait until 3-6 month after release, when the game is barren of people.
The fact that I was never going to dominate is relative. Forget the top dogs. What about within the same brackets? That other player who isn't much better than you, who you run across in the battle field and yet you don't stand a chance in hell against because he spends more in the shop? You are dead, he's not, simple as that but hey, at least in your heart, you know you worked harder for what you have than he did (In the game).
Joining Mega guilds doesn't fix the problem, it will still boil down to who collectively spends the most.
And who is that guy ? how do you identify him in game from all the other players and make sure you only fight him? When someone kills you, will you feel better knowing they worked harder for it...how would you ever even know.
All of this is a forum argument that doesn't apply in game. When someone kills you you're dead. It doesn't make it ok if the player spends 18 hrs a day in game or $1000 a month. You died he didn't and if you need an excuse for that you'll find one no matter what.
If you're against the principle of spending more to get more fine be against it. But hypothetical arguments to rationalize it or make it sound better don't work for people who know how a pvp game really works. The groups of people who put the most into their collective goal will dominate the game. Money or no money these people will invest more into the game than anyone here ever will. The solo players no matter how much they spend will always just be prey when they run into these groups of people.
Really? Come on. OK Fine. Let's put aside "that guy" argument. Skill is going to have very little to do with this game and any level of play, and it's going to show. No, I don't have in game evidence, and if I am wrong, I'll be happy to announce it to the entire community.
All you are doing is deflecting from the reality that this game is going to always favor those who spend more money. Not the top dogs, not the ones who are in the seats of power........everyone at every level will be affected.
The fact that I was never going to dominate is relative. Forget the top dogs. What about within the same brackets? That other player who isn't much better than you, who you run across in the battle field and yet you don't stand a chance in hell against because he spends more in the shop? You are dead, he's not, simple as that but hey, at least in your heart, you know you worked harder for what you have than he did (In the game).
Joining Mega guilds doesn't fix the problem, it will still boil down to who collectively spends the most.
And who is that guy ? how do you identify him in game from all the other players and make sure you only fight him? When someone kills you, will you feel better knowing they worked harder for it...how would you ever even know.
All of this is a forum argument that doesn't apply in game. When someone kills you you're dead. It doesn't make it ok if the player spends 18 hrs a day in game or $1000 a month. You died he didn't and if you need an excuse for that you'll find one no matter what.
If you're against the principle of spending more to get more fine be against it. But hypothetical arguments to rationalize it or make it sound better don't work for people who know how a pvp game really works. The groups of people who put the most into their collective goal will dominate the game. Money or no money these people will invest more into the game than anyone here ever will. The solo players no matter how much they spend will always just be prey when they run into these groups of people.
Really? Come on. OK Fine. Let's put aside "that guy" argument. Skill has nothing to do with this game and it's going to show. No, I don't have in game evidence, and if I am wrong, I'll be happy to announce it to the entire community.
(I won't be)
I never said anything about skill ? I said large numbers of people working together ( not just a mass mob of ppl in the same guild ) will dominate this game regardless of what a single player and how much they spend does.
As to your announcement. I'll be impressed if you even play past the first month or 2.
I never said anything about skill ? I said large numbers of people working together ( not just a mass mob of ppl in the same guild ) will dominate this game regardless of what a single player and how much they spend does.
As to your announcement. I'll be impressed if you even play past the first month or 2.
Look, what you are suggesting is nothing more than a workaround. It does not fix the problem, It may effectively allow you to optimize your enjoyment, and/or minimize the impact of the P2W factor of the game, but it does nothing to address the bullshit in the business model. So when I want to call them out on it, you come back with "It doesn't really matter" Well, it does matter. That's subjective. You go with your workaround and have fun with the game. I'm all for that. But, I want to address the heart of the problem so, unless you want to tell me how this game has no pay 2 win factors, then we aren't on the same page with this discussion.
Comments
Trust me when I say I'm very, very sad to agree with you
Don't get me wrong, Archeage is a hell of a game, but this LP implementation is getting worse everyday... and this will not balance the economy, not one bit.
Well, maybe i shouldnt use "LP is a chalenge" like it was a fact to all players, my bad here.
For me it is a chalenge that i like to play around, ajust my LP consume based on my current objective and play with others directly (friends) or indirectly (AH) was important to not suffer from lack of LP in the end of the day.
I dont imagine AA whithout a LP system. Now its well implemented? maybe not, i agree that could be better and shouldnt be connected to CS.
Im not dumb neither a genious so my opinions might change in future, i know that for now i can have alot of fun in-game only with Patron status. If thats going to change i cant tell.
In the end i agree with some critics about CS but dont agree at all about LP should be remove from game.
So basically free players want to take up space, flood market with hoarded mats, 24/7 farming, all with impunity and no cost? And if anybody invests in the game its P2W? Sounds legit. What do you win with this P2W anyway?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
+1
So, the reality is that those who spend more money in the Cash Shop, will dominate those who don't. But hey, since they aren't really "winning" anything, the game can't be called P2W.
Maybe we should just start using the term P2"W"
("W" being subjective)
Pay to Pwn... outside of dominating your opponent in PVP, you're not dominating anything.
You might want to define dominate while you're at it.
If you're here complaining about it and not in some mega guild with a day one plan already worked out...you were never going to dominate anything anyway. It's going to be very hard for most of the vocal people to pick out who paid and who didn't when it comes to the sheer volume of people above them on the food chain.
In truth most of this is I don't like it so anyone else doing it is wrong. It was never about winning anything.
No need for that, P2W was allways, it is and it will be a subjective designation.
Theres millions of posts about it and we can continue discuss for more millions, in the end each people will have their own opinion what P2W is.
No they did not make it pay 2 win. QQ more to those who say so. WoW sucks kthxbye
Dominate what? Gathering? Crafting? Uprooting? Opening coin purses? I really don't understand the grand advantage that effects the landscape of the game.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And LoL, works the same way.
You bet I do. That's $150 I might as well have set on fire and danced naked on in my backyard. I got to watch the entire process from the start of Trion's 'no tricks, no traps' line months and months ago, to their new 'aw heck with it' policy.
If they would just have kept it a sub/no-sub model with a cosmetic cash shop, it might have turned a profit, beyond the Founder packs. Now it will probably last a year or so and fizzle. I'll have a good laugh.
Same thing, ironically just happened with STO, wherein Cryptic basically said 'sorry about your last four years of playing, please pay us even more $ for new ships'. Yep, also a money write off.
Finally learned my lesson. No more founder's packs, no kickstarting, no crowd-funding, no early access, nothing. Ever. Make your games then try and sell them to me. Fooled me twice.
You may have become enlightened and found the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, and thus have made your peace with this business model. But I haven't. I am still an ignorant loud mouth who thinks this is wrong for the genre, and will continue to speak out against it. If I am going to pay for a subscription, I want equal opportunity across the board. At least for those who play by the rules.
The fact that I was never going to dominate is relative. Forget the top dogs. What about within the same brackets? That other player who isn't much better than you, who you run across in the battle field and yet you don't stand a chance in hell against because he spends more in the shop? You are dead, he's not, simple as that but hey, at least in your heart, you know you worked harder for what you have than he did (In the game).
Joining Mega guilds doesn't fix the problem, it will still boil down to who collectively spends the most.
Post Edit:
Don't misunderstand what I said about accepting things I can't change. It' snot meant to be an insult. I am acknowledging your view and there is something to be said for that.
But I still fell that the message still needs to be sent to the publishers, no matter how much "Ching" is drowning me out.
It's funny you should mention "landscape" because that's exactly what I was thinking.
As outspoken against this and similar business models as I am, I still think there certain points of this game's design that are good. For those of you who bought the founder's packs and are now feeling betrayed, Look at it like this. You got to play this game for probably about as long as what many play a post release game for. Not only that, you got to experience the game in a way most never will, you saw this game at it's potential. Before it became over-monetized. Looking back at the good things that were said of AA, I think that if you'd been playing since Founder's launched, you can't really say you haven't gotten something out of it. Whether or not you got the full value from it, well, that's subjective.
It's just that now, you have to change your expectations going forward and, yeah, that sucks for sure.
Maybe you should stop interpreting people being excited over a game they want to play as them proclaiming it as the "second coming." The issue seems to lie with you, not the game.
And who is that guy ? how do you identify him in game from all the other players and make sure you only fight him? When someone kills you, will you feel better knowing they worked harder for it...how would you ever even know.
All of this is a forum argument that doesn't apply in game. When someone kills you you're dead. It doesn't make it ok if the player spends 18 hrs a day in game or $1000 a month. You died he didn't and if you need an excuse for that you'll find one no matter what.
If you're against the principle of spending more to get more fine be against it. But hypothetical arguments to rationalize it or make it sound better don't work for people who know how a pvp game really works. The groups of people who put the most into their collective goal will dominate the game. Money or no money these people will invest more into the game than anyone here ever will. The solo players no matter how much they spend will always just be prey when they run into these groups of people.
IMO this problem would be negligible if it was just a PvE game. Pot purchases would not be an issue but since this a PvP game any perceived advantage will seem unfair and objected to vehemently no matter how insignificant.
you hit the nail on the head i started this morning with 5000 labor and was down to 0 in 3 hours. Downed a pot for 1000 labor and spent it on a level 40 item for a friend. Sad really i enjoyed the game before 1.2 but after it is not a game i will be playing for long. Who want to get all your drops for a market chest i want to go our and hunt mobs for my drops not buy them from the market. The urchin is used in all weapons, armor and jewelry. Jewelry is broken by its self only stamina items can be used to make the next higher tier. So at level 40 you have a chance of 1:1024 to make a intel ring and that's not counting quality .level.
I wrote it two times on these forums already, with Trion at the controls people will be in for one or another upset - I just didn't expect it to happen before launch already.
And Trion isn't even in desperation mode about AA! Wait until 3-6 month after release, when the game is barren of people.
Really? Come on. OK Fine. Let's put aside "that guy" argument. Skill is going to have very little to do with this game and any level of play, and it's going to show. No, I don't have in game evidence, and if I am wrong, I'll be happy to announce it to the entire community.
All you are doing is deflecting from the reality that this game is going to always favor those who spend more money. Not the top dogs, not the ones who are in the seats of power........everyone at every level will be affected.
I never said anything about skill ? I said large numbers of people working together ( not just a mass mob of ppl in the same guild ) will dominate this game regardless of what a single player and how much they spend does.
As to your announcement. I'll be impressed if you even play past the first month or 2.
Look, what you are suggesting is nothing more than a workaround. It does not fix the problem, It may effectively allow you to optimize your enjoyment, and/or minimize the impact of the P2W factor of the game, but it does nothing to address the bullshit in the business model. So when I want to call them out on it, you come back with "It doesn't really matter" Well, it does matter. That's subjective. You go with your workaround and have fun with the game. I'm all for that. But, I want to address the heart of the problem so, unless you want to tell me how this game has no pay 2 win factors, then we aren't on the same page with this discussion.
Somehow i found out YEAR's ago (i tturn 45 september 12) that every f2p i played was p2w.
Except maby gw2 but that was/is B2p :P