2. having labor points is great BUT, its not like every step you taking is a resource to grab and you are constantly burning through LBs like a machine. resources take time to find and run too, you couldnt' burn through that much labor unless you bought gold with real money illegally then went to the market and bought tons of resources to craft with. if you do that well, dude, that's gold buying, and you can do that in any game and dominate
3. I don't mind cash shop and patron status combined. it will give me a jump on the game. I haven't been a big cash shop guy and don't spend any money if I don't have too. but I don't mind doing it here. this is a good game. its like the biggest thing since Aion. Aion was a blast and quality game (tho graphics are outdated now). I see this game with the staying power of Aion, so I don't mind spending.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
LP is not a currency. You could have a billion LP, and it won't really give you an advantage. Yes, to craft you need LP, you ALSO need materials. No matter how much LP you have, your trees won't grow any faster. You won't suddenly mine more ore.
Most subscribers won't be limited by LP. Hardcore players that are, will just get a second account. But someone can multi-box in most MMOs for an advantage.
In AA, someone can even multi-box FOR FREE.
In an organized guild all you need is a few people willing to buy the pots while everyone else pools their gathering into the guild bank. Then the guild as a whole ends up just better equipped overall to control resource nodes. Till those who don't pay catch up.
How much of a gap will it create....shrug....let us watch and find out. I know in the NA community this usually means everyone switches to the easy side and pvp ens up failing because of population imbalance.
This is the "only" problem i see with buying labor pots.
Puts the pressure on other guilds and really can set them back compared to zerg guilds which farm up and have a few people with $$ crafting / building.
I wouldn't be able to keep up with that person even if they didn't buy LP pots, their sheer amount of game play time exceeds my paltry 1-2 hours a day.
So let them spend 1500+ to be what, even further "ahead" of me? What exactly did they win?
Faster progression means making an early hold at the economy as well as PVP. You are forgetting this is open PVP MMO and not a themepark.
I always love this perfectly logical line of reasoning. (Its a race and if you don't get there first, you lose.)
Seriously, if this made any sort of difference, even without labour points, by your logic only people who started on the first day and played 24/7 would have any chance of being competitve.
So basically according to this guy if you started playing the game late, you might as well give up. You have already lost.
Trying to put words into my mouth?
Anyways, what you forget is that this is a sandbox MMO and not your typical themepark where you can start playing after 5 years and the only difference between you and those who started on day 1 is gear stats.
Have you even played AA? do you know how important economy, market, land etc is in this game? have you heard about the russian guild which destroyed the whole server during beta by cornering the entire market? and that was without LP boosts.
LP is not a currency. You could have a billion LP, and it won't really give you an advantage. Yes, to craft you need LP, you ALSO need materials. No matter how much LP you have, your trees won't grow any faster. You won't suddenly mine more ore.
Most subscribers won't be limited by LP. Hardcore players that are, will just get a second account. But someone can multi-box in most MMOs for an advantage.
In AA, someone can even multi-box FOR FREE.
In an organized guild all you need is a few people willing to buy the pots while everyone else pools their gathering into the guild bank. Then the guild as a whole ends up just better equipped overall to control resource nodes. Till those who don't pay catch up.
How much of a gap will it create....shrug....let us watch and find out. I know in the NA community this usually means everyone switches to the easy side and pvp ens up failing because of population imbalance.
This is the "only" problem i see with buying labor pots.
Puts the pressure on other guilds and really can set them back compared to zerg guilds which farm up and have a few people with $$ crafting / building.
How hard it is for a guild to make a pool of gold and buy them from the ah...
I wouldn't be able to keep up with that person even if they didn't buy LP pots, their sheer amount of game play time exceeds my paltry 1-2 hours a day.
So let them spend 1500+ to be what, even further "ahead" of me? What exactly did they win?
Faster progression means making an early hold at the economy as well as PVP. You are forgetting this is open PVP MMO and not a themepark.
I always love this perfectly logical line of reasoning. (Its a race and if you don't get there first, you lose.)
Seriously, if this made any sort of difference, even without labour points, by your logic only people who started on the first day and played 24/7 would have any chance of being competitve.
So basically according to this guy if you started playing the game late, you might as well give up. You have already lost.
Trying to put words into my mouth?
Anyways, what you forget is that this is a sandbox MMO and not your typical themepark where you can start playing after 5 years and the only difference between you and those who started on day 1 is gear stats.
Have you even played AA? do you know how important economy, market, land etc is in this game? have you heard about the russian guild which destroyed the whole server during beta by cornering the entire market? and that was without LP boosts.
Well isn't that what I am saying? Somebody is going to get there first.... russians, koreans who cares!
They are going to get there as fast as they can using whatever means they can. Since they did it without LP boosts my guess is they will do it again, with them.
Every time a game like this comes along , somebody cries, "its unfair" or "it's unbalanced". Of course it is... its an MMO. Its why we have ganking because some guy will always have an advantage and will use it against you. If someone can play 20 hours per day and you can only play 4, does that make the game unbalanced also?
If you read some of the responses here I am sure you noticed that to a lot of players, these things just don't mattter a whole lot. We aren't devoting our lives to these games, we are simply playing them, so why worry about it.
But feel free to get your knickers in a knot because some Russian got there before you did.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I wouldn't be able to keep up with that person even if they didn't buy LP pots, their sheer amount of game play time exceeds my paltry 1-2 hours a day.
So let them spend 1500+ to be what, even further "ahead" of me? What exactly did they win?
I hate P2W. If someone gets an advantage by spending more time in game than I can afford that's fair enough but if they get an advantage through spending real money than the game becomes a lot less fun for me. I just don't enjoy games that are really about who is willing to plunk down the most cash.
This game would be so much better without the garbage Asian money scheme. Apologists try and defend this game all you want. It's an absolute travesty. Even if it wasn't overhyped, the game at its core isn't worth a subscription. This labor point crap is only going to cripple it. Eventually the apologist whales will get tired of killing their fellow fanboys and will be denouncing this game's business model just like the rest of us. Mark my words.
You cannot corner the market in this MMO, the economy is not complex enough for that.
There is no economy of scale, no buying power, no exclusivity, no contracts, no manufacturing plants, no barrier to entry, and no overhead. A group could craft 100 of an item, but that doesn't preclude a single player from producing 1 and undercutting it on the auction house. This is possible because both groups spent the same man hours gathering the resources needed to craft that item. Nobody can stop you from gathering, crafting, and selling. On the auction house.
The only thing guilds can corner, are trade routes. BUT... Wait for it... This is NOT through having more LP. This could all be done with free accounts. All they need to do is kill and rob anyone who doesn't give them a cut. This just takes more players and PVP, which LP gives zero advantage in. With enough players, a guild could simply kill anyone from either faction attempting to trade in neutral territory.
LP doesn't really mean shit in this game. People spending $ on LP are not even a minor concern. The real power in this game is people. Considering this game is F2P, people are cheap.
You have to be completely off your rocker to be that crazy to spend so much on pots. How many people do you honestly see doing that ? Be honest now.
So a very small percentage decide to support Trion and their game by going all crazy buying pots and how exactly does it impact you ? Were you ever going to be able to compete with these people... hey they win in life probably too since they must be rich to spend so stupidly.
Come on get real it is like those idiots that go to buffets and eat and eat just because they can. Play at your pace why bother about the 2 % that are spending their money like clowns.
I wouldn't be able to keep up with that person even if they didn't buy LP pots, their sheer amount of game play time exceeds my paltry 1-2 hours a day.
So let them spend 1500+ to be what, even further "ahead" of me? What exactly did they win?
I hate P2W. If someone gets an advantage by spending more time in game than I can afford that's fair enough but if they get an advantage through spending real money than the game becomes a lot less fun for me. I just don't enjoy games that are really about who is willing to plunk down the most cash.
I feel the exact opposite.
If someone is plunking down loads of cash to have an advantage, at least I know the game is being funded. If the game is going to be dominated by no-lifers who aren't paying a dime than the game is just going to die.
People don't really seem to grasp that. If this game was F2P without a P2W cash shop, the game would be dead in a week. The no-lifers would have Hasla on lockdown, they'd have all the trade routes on lockdown, and no one would have any way in which they could catch up. You'd be at a permanent disadvantage, everyone would just quit.
If you want a game that's fair to all players and is dominated by the players with the most playing time, it has to be a straight sub with no cash shop. But because there are so many players out there that absolutely refuse to pay sub, you get a P2W cash shop. And for me, a P2W cash shop is better than nothing.
You know what? It is me, the subscriber who only pays £9 a month that wins in your scenario. You know why? Because I spent £9 on the game and was still able to enjoy it without any restrictions whereas that guy spent like £1000-1200 on the game in a month. That means I win. I will have a spare £1191 which I can invest in my pension/shares or I can spend it on a holiday/new fancy toys or getting drunk in a club. In my book this is a clear win for me haha.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
someone on crystal methamphetamine will clean their house 26x faster than I can. clearly they are paying (their dealer) to win.
on a serious note, if you wanted to "win" like the 1000 a month LP pot chugger, couldnt you grind currency like a fiend and just buy the darn things off the auction house?
even in a game like eve, where everything is "for keeps" as in you lose your stuff you had on you when you die, people can technically out-ISK everyone else if they feel like spending hundreds of bucks on PLEX. but i havent heard anyone at least in my coalition of 3000 people ever call eve p2w.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
I say let this guy spending $1600~ a month on LP pay for our next big content update. All it will do for him is let him cap faster.. Plus I played this game extensively in Alpha and into some Beta and gear isn't the biggest deciding factor in PVP (at least world PVP). I have been ganked by 50's at level 35~ and still been able to beat them by sheer skill / luck. So I wouldn't waste tears on this subject.
If there are 1%ers out there that would spend tons of money on pixel potions let them. Actually come 1%ers i'll welcome you with enough people to make your awesome gear be complitely useless.
this point is null and void... let them spend 1500+ a month... it won't stop them from being vulnerable to gank guilds, or pvp runs... or pirates....... and they can watch in horror as there 1500 dollars of real cash is sailing away with another player at the helm..... haha thanks for the donation!
Where is that guy with the wolf avatar he used to be all over the Archeage threads. Must be enjoying the sun and sea I guess. He will soon be here to put the death knell on all these threads.
I wouldn't be able to keep up with that person even if they didn't buy LP pots, their sheer amount of game play time exceeds my paltry 1-2 hours a day.
So let them spend 1500+ to be what, even further "ahead" of me? What exactly did they win?
Faster progression means making an early hold at the economy as well as PVP. You are forgetting this is open PVP MMO and not a themepark.
I always love this perfectly logical line of reasoning. (Its a race and if you don't get there first, you lose.)
Seriously, if this made any sort of difference, even without labour points, by your logic only people who started on the first day and played 24/7 would have any chance of being competitve.
So basically according to this guy if you started playing the game late, you might as well give up. You have already lost.
Trying to put words into my mouth?
Anyways, what you forget is that this is a sandbox MMO and not your typical themepark where you can start playing after 5 years and the only difference between you and those who started on day 1 is gear stats.
Have you even played AA? do you know how important economy, market, land etc is in this game? have you heard about the russian guild which destroyed the whole server during beta by cornering the entire market? and that was without LP boosts.
Well isn't that what I am saying? Somebody is going to get there first.... russians, koreans who cares!
They are going to get there as fast as they can using whatever means they can. Since they did it without LP boosts my guess is they will do it again, with them.
Every time a game like this comes along , somebody cries, "its unfair" or "it's unbalanced". Of course it is... its an MMO. Its why we have ganking because some guy will always have an advantage and will use it against you. If someone can play 20 hours per day and you can only play 4, does that make the game unbalanced also?
If you read some of the responses here I am sure you noticed that to a lot of players, these things just don't mattter a whole lot. We aren't devoting our lives to these games, we are simply playing them, so why worry about it.
But feel free to get your knickers in a knot because some Russian got there before you did.
OP - you don't win ArcheAge by having the most labor points.
Just like you don't win @ life by having the most money
Mistaken beliefs - we all have them
PVP, PVP is war, people with money win wars, people that don't have money get slaughtered.
PVE players will care less and have no worries, people trying to compete in PVP are probably where most of the complaints come from and they are right to do so.
Ideally there needs to be a disconnect between PVP and PVE in some ways. In most games one or the other gets the shaft in some way because developers are trying to make both sides happy/balanced and it never works in games like this.
I am pretty happy I decided to give this one a pass. I was actually thinking of getting back into Defiance and buying the DLC but after reading a lot of this and reading about Defiance server issues I may just say goodbye completely to Trion and their products.
even in a game like eve, where everything is "for keeps" as in you lose your stuff you had on you when you die, people can technically out-ISK everyone else if they feel like spending hundreds of bucks on PLEX. but i havent heard anyone at least in my coalition of 3000 people ever call eve p2w.
EVE is not really P2W because the skill system makes it so everybody has to spend equal time learning skills You can buy the best ships in the game on day 1 with PLEX but it'll take you years to be able to fly them properly same as it would a non-PLEX buyer. A lot of games are just sticking a PLEX like system in but without EVE's skill system as well it really comes a lot closer to P2W.
even in a game like eve, where everything is "for keeps" as in you lose your stuff you had on you when you die, people can technically out-ISK everyone else if they feel like spending hundreds of bucks on PLEX. but i havent heard anyone at least in my coalition of 3000 people ever call eve p2w.
EVE is not really P2W because the skill system makes it so everybody has to spend equal time learning skills You can buy the best ships in the game on day 1 with PLEX but it'll take you years to be able to fly them properly same as it would a non-PLEX buyer. A lot of games are just sticking a PLEX like system in but without EVE's skill system as well it really comes a lot closer to P2W.
Originally posted by Nadriell this point is null and void... let them spend 1500+ a month... it won't stop them from being vulnerable to gank guilds, or pvp runs... or pirates....... and they can watch in horror as there 1500 dollars of real cash is sailing away with another player at the helm..... haha thanks for the donation!
even in a game like eve, where everything is "for keeps" as in you lose your stuff you had on you when you die, people can technically out-ISK everyone else if they feel like spending hundreds of bucks on PLEX. but i havent heard anyone at least in my coalition of 3000 people ever call eve p2w.
EVE is not really P2W because the skill system makes it so everybody has to spend equal time learning skills You can buy the best ships in the game on day 1 with PLEX but it'll take you years to be able to fly them properly same as it would a non-PLEX buyer. A lot of games are just sticking a PLEX like system in but without EVE's skill system as well it really comes a lot closer to P2W.
You can buy character in EVE for $ with needed skills officially.
PS. Besides training times changed - it does not take years to be able to pilot/use top ships. More like months.
This game dropped off my radar as soon as I found out it has labour points. When I dedicate myself to a single game, I expect to be able to play it 4 hours on every work day and 15 hours on every off-work day and not be limited by stuff like this. (Yeah I realise I'm a minority in this)
Comments
1. wow, could you overreact more?
2. having labor points is great BUT, its not like every step you taking is a resource to grab and you are constantly burning through LBs like a machine. resources take time to find and run too, you couldnt' burn through that much labor unless you bought gold with real money illegally then went to the market and bought tons of resources to craft with. if you do that well, dude, that's gold buying, and you can do that in any game and dominate
3. I don't mind cash shop and patron status combined. it will give me a jump on the game. I haven't been a big cash shop guy and don't spend any money if I don't have too. but I don't mind doing it here. this is a good game. its like the biggest thing since Aion. Aion was a blast and quality game (tho graphics are outdated now). I see this game with the staying power of Aion, so I don't mind spending.
This is the "only" problem i see with buying labor pots.
Puts the pressure on other guilds and really can set them back compared to zerg guilds which farm up and have a few people with $$ crafting / building.
Trying to put words into my mouth?
Anyways, what you forget is that this is a sandbox MMO and not your typical themepark where you can start playing after 5 years and the only difference between you and those who started on day 1 is gear stats.
Have you even played AA? do you know how important economy, market, land etc is in this game? have you heard about the russian guild which destroyed the whole server during beta by cornering the entire market? and that was without LP boosts.
How hard it is for a guild to make a pool of gold and buy them from the ah...
Well isn't that what I am saying? Somebody is going to get there first.... russians, koreans who cares!
They are going to get there as fast as they can using whatever means they can. Since they did it without LP boosts my guess is they will do it again, with them.
Every time a game like this comes along , somebody cries, "its unfair" or "it's unbalanced". Of course it is... its an MMO. Its why we have ganking because some guy will always have an advantage and will use it against you. If someone can play 20 hours per day and you can only play 4, does that make the game unbalanced also?
If you read some of the responses here I am sure you noticed that to a lot of players, these things just don't mattter a whole lot. We aren't devoting our lives to these games, we are simply playing them, so why worry about it.
But feel free to get your knickers in a knot because some Russian got there before you did.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I hate P2W. If someone gets an advantage by spending more time in game than I can afford that's fair enough but if they get an advantage through spending real money than the game becomes a lot less fun for me. I just don't enjoy games that are really about who is willing to plunk down the most cash.
You cannot corner the market in this MMO, the economy is not complex enough for that.
There is no economy of scale, no buying power, no exclusivity, no contracts, no manufacturing plants, no barrier to entry, and no overhead. A group could craft 100 of an item, but that doesn't preclude a single player from producing 1 and undercutting it on the auction house. This is possible because both groups spent the same man hours gathering the resources needed to craft that item. Nobody can stop you from gathering, crafting, and selling. On the auction house.
The only thing guilds can corner, are trade routes. BUT... Wait for it... This is NOT through having more LP. This could all be done with free accounts. All they need to do is kill and rob anyone who doesn't give them a cut. This just takes more players and PVP, which LP gives zero advantage in. With enough players, a guild could simply kill anyone from either faction attempting to trade in neutral territory.
LP doesn't really mean shit in this game. People spending $ on LP are not even a minor concern. The real power in this game is people. Considering this game is F2P, people are cheap.
You have to be completely off your rocker to be that crazy to spend so much on pots. How many people do you honestly see doing that ? Be honest now.
So a very small percentage decide to support Trion and their game by going all crazy buying pots and how exactly does it impact you ? Were you ever going to be able to compete with these people... hey they win in life probably too since they must be rich to spend so stupidly.
Come on get real it is like those idiots that go to buffets and eat and eat just because they can. Play at your pace why bother about the 2 % that are spending their money like clowns.
I feel the exact opposite.
If someone is plunking down loads of cash to have an advantage, at least I know the game is being funded. If the game is going to be dominated by no-lifers who aren't paying a dime than the game is just going to die.
People don't really seem to grasp that. If this game was F2P without a P2W cash shop, the game would be dead in a week. The no-lifers would have Hasla on lockdown, they'd have all the trade routes on lockdown, and no one would have any way in which they could catch up. You'd be at a permanent disadvantage, everyone would just quit.
If you want a game that's fair to all players and is dominated by the players with the most playing time, it has to be a straight sub with no cash shop. But because there are so many players out there that absolutely refuse to pay sub, you get a P2W cash shop. And for me, a P2W cash shop is better than nothing.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
someone on crystal methamphetamine will clean their house 26x faster than I can. clearly they are paying (their dealer) to win.
on a serious note, if you wanted to "win" like the 1000 a month LP pot chugger, couldnt you grind currency like a fiend and just buy the darn things off the auction house?
even in a game like eve, where everything is "for keeps" as in you lose your stuff you had on you when you die, people can technically out-ISK everyone else if they feel like spending hundreds of bucks on PLEX. but i havent heard anyone at least in my coalition of 3000 people ever call eve p2w.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
I'm patron and will continue being patron.
If there are 1%ers out there that would spend tons of money on pixel potions let them. Actually come 1%ers i'll welcome you with enough people to make your awesome gear be complitely useless.
I wonder if you and irony ever met.
PVP, PVP is war, people with money win wars, people that don't have money get slaughtered.
PVE players will care less and have no worries, people trying to compete in PVP are probably where most of the complaints come from and they are right to do so.
Ideally there needs to be a disconnect between PVP and PVE in some ways. In most games one or the other gets the shaft in some way because developers are trying to make both sides happy/balanced and it never works in games like this.
I am pretty happy I decided to give this one a pass. I was actually thinking of getting back into Defiance and buying the DLC but after reading a lot of this and reading about Defiance server issues I may just say goodbye completely to Trion and their products.
EVE is not really P2W because the skill system makes it so everybody has to spend equal time learning skills You can buy the best ships in the game on day 1 with PLEX but it'll take you years to be able to fly them properly same as it would a non-PLEX buyer. A lot of games are just sticking a PLEX like system in but without EVE's skill system as well it really comes a lot closer to P2W.
Fun Fact:
Killer Whales travel in groups known as a Pod.
You can buy character in EVE for $ with needed skills officially.
PS. Besides training times changed - it does not take years to be able to pilot/use top ships. More like months.
My thoughts exactly.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!