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Labor: Balancing the Economy with 90% Pay2Win.
Kangaroomouse
Member Posts: 394
in ArcheAge
IMPORTANT! This calculation is for subscribers that pay monthly for the game!
Old system:
In alpha we were getting 20 labor every 5 minutes. Labor potions could be used every 12 hours 1 on each character (4 total).
- 5,760 labor per day,
- 8,000 from labor potions.
1.38x the amount of labor we get per day.
59% of max labor a day is through cash shop potions.
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New System:
On this patch it is now 10 labor ever 5 minutes and 4 potions every 4 hours.
- 2,880 labor per day
- 24,000 labor per potions.
Now it's 8.3x as much labor as we get per day
90% of max labor per day is from cash shop potions. The famed and often defended as "balancing the economy" Labor System is 90% Pay2Win
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I rest my case:
Comments
2 questions pls.
1. Are subscribers getting some potions for free, or they are in the same fate as f2p users and have to use cash shop for the entire 90% of the daily max labor?
2. A list where labor points can be used?
Thank you
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
1)Yes every 5 days from the loyalty shop for 25 coins
2)Everything non combat related.
1. Subscribers do get the equivalent of 2.8 potions a day due to them regenerating Labor over time. They also get one every 5 days from loyalty bonus.
2. Everything except attacking a mob. You need them to open drops from mobs (mobs drop bags not items), craft, farm, mine, some quests, turning in packages (big end game activity).
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Try the game in open beta and see for yourself. After your first drop from a mob you will need Labor, after about 10 minutes you will get a quest that requires you to have labor (farming quest line), after about 30 minutes a quest to get a mount also needs Labor.
So, 90% is for the f2p users. Whats the % of daily max labor for subscribers?
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
No, the 90% calculation was for subscribers and included the subscription regeneration of LP! I said they get the equivalent of 2.8 potions due to their regeneration.
F2P get half of the regeneration and only if they are logged into the game so for them it is 94% pay2win if they are online 24h. Realistically if you are playing for 4 hours a day it is 99% P2W for F2P.
Well the 20 lp each 5 min in alpha sounds like a boosted regen to let you test the game out easier did they ever state that was going to be kept at live release?
a second thing you will only have 2 character slots each server unless you can pay to unlock more.
the only one to want to chuck that many potions is a guy who want to do everything himself making the core group/guild mechanic moot and they wont stay around long after people catch up to them.
And i cant see that a well orginised guild wont be able to keep pace with them tbh
Nothing you said changes the fact that the LP system is 90% Pay 2 Win. Why did you post this again?
Yeah this seems like a very hot topic; almost 500 responses so far.
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/comments/2ficw5/game_is_now_90_pay_to_win_cash_shop_180_from_alpha/
Even one of the folks that posted something similar was IP banned by TRION.
http://i.imgur.com/qDOOxwy.png
And so it begins. I'm not going to get into the whole what is P2W or not but this doesn't seem like something that is going to be welcomed with open arms if indeed it is going to be implemented as is. I don't want to hear "Well TRION/XLGames are a business so they need to make money." Well of course they do... this doesn't need to be stated. So you have the F2P, P2P, and the P2P + drop tons of real life cash player/guild. Of the 3 types who will have a clear advantage if you compare group A and B with similar size and skill?
Implementation of cash shop methods like this (and many others) are one of the main reasons these Korean MMOs don't last that long or don't do very well here in the West. I hope TRION passes this over to XLGames. The question is will XLGames listen or continue due course?
^this
Exactly how are you supposed to burn 30 000+ labor points a day?
Seems to me this whole argument is irrelevant. It may need some fine-tuning, but if the system allows the *average* patron to play and not worry too much about LP... then who cares?
Your first statment holds no vaild as it was stated that before we had this now they nerf it and sell more lp pots in cash shop instead. When it may have been the plan all along we dont know.
To your first question no im saying its 1/3 as bad as your making it out to be you say 6 chars each server when it said you will have only 2 each server 6 across all servers.
My third statment is the only one who need to chuck that many potions is the lone wolf who want to do everything himself and if he want to play that way let him.
Why would they need to chuck potions to dominate pvp if they are well organized they wont have to and still gain best gear for their people.
We will see soon (10 days) how this system turns out, i had fun as ftp none crafter in the cb3 and will try out crafting my patron month i plan to pay sometime in the future.
I wonder how people were able to play and have fun in the RU version with half the lp for patrons and 1/5 for ftp.
As a ftp in cb3 i got enough lp to open all coin bags all quest rewards and the lp i lost on deaths so now with the quest rewards being lp free you wont have a problem if you dont craft.
Might be hard for you to "greif same faction / steal enemy" players by growing plants they put down outside their farms tho.
And im not sure how much it cost to turn in trade packs you get from killing people trying to turn them in.
Absolutely true. I'm getting fed up reading all these P2W posts quite honestly. It's not pay to win it's pay to play the game how you want to. I'm one of the people who are heavily into the farming/crafting/trading side of the game and have been having problems with running out of labor in the previous beta tests. Reducing the price of the labor pots and cool down times means I can now play the game the way I want. Talk of anyone using 30000 points per day is fantasy other than for a bot. I have three large farms, play for many hours a day and the most I've used in a day was around 4000 or so.
The important thing that the complainers always neglect to mention is that anyone more interested in the PvE questing and PvP side of the game hardly need any labor at all so are free to use their points to buy the pots and sell them on the auction. I've bought three 1000 Lp pots from the auction this weekend to keep in reserve and they only cost me around four gold each in in game earned currency. I have had zero need to use the cash shop at all.
It is irrelevant. The amount of resources it would truly take to spend thousands upon thousands of labor would be so high, that it isn't even remotely worth it. Even while doing very labor intensive tasks, I almost never ran out, and when I did I did something else for a bit. Just like everything else - people are blowing every little detail out of proportion. I'll never understand.
And the usual "I never run out of Labor" crowd comes in. No one is talking about you farming weeds and chicken.
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All of you obviously NEVER crafted high level gear which costs 7k Labor a piece to craft.
Come back when you know what you are talking about.
Yes because it is very cheap to craft these 800* LP pieces...So cheap that i can burn out my 36k with "just" 45 items which cost tons of money to make. Let's not talk about regrading them.
Money is not a problem for people that use the cash shop. Everything there can be sold in the AH for gold. This is why it's called P2W. Money is also not a problem for people that can buy LP potions because they can sell materials on the AH they can craft with LP.
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The market in Beta is already showing these effects if you look at prices for basic stuff like chicken meat, rock or iron. they go for ridiculous prices on my server because demand is high but only the LP potion buyers and goldsellers can farm non stop.
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You completely miss the point here that this whole thing is destroying the economy.
Someone's always going to be at the top of the food chain.
It will either be the p2w whales or the live-in-mom's basement crowd.
One scenario the game gets proper funding.
Other scenario the game gets no funding.
As someone who's not going to be at the top of the food chain, I'd much rather a whale be there than a no-lifer.
A p2w game is better than no game.
And then people wonder why we keep getting crappy MMORPGs...
People are willing to put up with anything as long as they can get their "fix" for 1-3 months and then move to the next one.
I feel bad for the young kids that are just now getting into MMORPGs and this is the crap they have to look forward to.
Me sad.
my response to the whole labor pots/cash shop = pay to win.
it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
Here's a free to play that makes you a real winner - who the author of the quote.
Most of the MMO players are adults now. Half of them employed living normal lives, the other half still living with mom crying about p2w on the forums.
What makes you think that all rich players are bad in PvP?
Equally skilled, Cash Shop player VS normal player, the former will win 100% of fights.
another issue is as your wandering along doing missions , suddenly wiht little warnign your ina pvp zone and all the missions are...
so 33rd lil me is getting ganked by 41st's and above
they all are founders lol
so ya ok game up to 30th or so then its farmville you get forced to do that in non pvp areas for like years....till your 50th but oh i bet by time i get ther eit will be 60 cap...
every game has its quirks
guess i just aint found the right one for me yet
How many fights will a skilled player lose to a normal player ?