Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's all about choosing your battles and asking yourself the question, "Is it really worth it?". Some days I just feel like ignoring it all. And then some times I really get a hankering for a little Troll vs Troll battling. I usually let them throw the first insult, after that it is all fair game. Don't often think or care about getting banned.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
well guess Im too boring - never been banned, have recieved a warning afew years back but other than that....
stupid thing about your ban for saying: Im going to report you, is that it by itself is a threat, instead of just doing it if you d feel like it
anyway when it come to entertainment value, diffrent people diffrent brainwash...or hype whatever you call it - hardly ever you could claim anyone really lying, but just that person is being a more positive person than yourself ; )
Most of the time, it is not worth spending 10 minutes to form a polite rebuttal to something someone just barely thought over before posting. Some posters just are not worth the effort.
If I'm on a streak of warnings/bans, I don't post at all; but if I haven't had one in a while...
Why does a polite response have to be longer than an impolite one?
The most common scenario is when someone is obviously not knowledgeable of the subject matter they are going on about.
Is there a polite way to say "You really don't know what you are talking about"? Even if there is, would such a post be of any value without explaining what it is they misunderstood, didn't know or were misinformed on? And, if you've been in such a situation and tried to offer a polite, informative reply, halfway through weren't you wondering if it was actually worth the effort?
Some will type it all out.
Some will get halfway through, say "Screw this" and then just hit back on their browser
Others will reduce it to what they are thinking, which may be the truth, but isn't often helpful.
Because, really, that seems to be the very root of almost every argument here, and the cause for what seems like a lot of bans.
When someone doesn't know what the heck they are talking about, they are allowed to disrupt an otherwise constructive conversation with their nonsense. When people get frustrated with them and reach their breaking point, the one that finally breaks gets banned. If there was just one forum that had a 'back it up or shut up' rule to it, you would see much more productive conversation and less trolling.
Another thing is that it seems like one or more of the mods here either don't know the forum community well or take the odd stance of judging each individual post on its own merit with complete disregard for past and history. Anyone that's been posting here for a year or so can easily tell you the exact intent of some posters' posts the minute it is posted. Oh, to the person that just said to themselves "You know their intent? You're a mind reader?" No, not a mind reader, just someone a lot better at learning from history than you fucking are.
"Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here."
Agreed. Someone can spout the most ignorant garbage and, despite every post explaining the contrary, will continue to repeat the same nonsense over and over until someone finally breaks. You break, you get banned. It's pretty much the rule here. Your choices? Here's some:
Wait out the ban and return to business as usual
Suck it up and realize shouting people down gets you everywhere here, facts and history don't
Start stacking the blocked list. As soon as you see one of those names (their posts are hidden) in a thread you are in, realize it's about to go south and move on to another thread.
Troll. Spout the dumbest, most naive ridiculousness you can think of. When presented with ANY counter argument, stick to your guns. False dichotomy, argumentum ad populum, straw men, red herrings work well here. If what you're looking for is a threadnaught, use MMOExposed's favorite, The Non-Sequitur. You can bank on that last one. It's good for at least two pages and a ban (not for you, of course - you're the victim here).
Well, see y'all in a week.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Kyleran Fortunately I am a saint and banning never happens to me. Well almost never, I mean it's only a few times....a year....
You're a good egg, Ky. We need a lot more Kyleran's around here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Most of the time, it is not worth spending 10 minutes to form a polite rebuttal to something someone just barely thought over before posting. Some posters just are not worth the effort.
If I'm on a streak of warnings/bans, I don't post at all; but if I haven't had one in a while...
Why does a polite response have to be longer than an impolite one?
The most common scenario is when someone is obviously not knowledgeable of the subject matter they are going on about.
Is there a polite way to say "You really don't know what you are talking about"? Even if there is, would such a post be of any value without explaining what it is they misunderstood, didn't know or were misinformed on? And, if you've been in such a situation and tried to offer a polite, informative reply, halfway through weren't you wondering if it was actually worth the effort?
Some will type it all out.
Some will get halfway through, say "Screw this" and then just hit back on their browser
Others will reduce it to what they are thinking, which may be the truth, but isn't often helpful.
Because, really, that seems to be the very root of almost every argument here, and the cause for what seems like a lot of bans.
When someone doesn't know what the heck they are talking about, they are allowed to disrupt an otherwise constructive conversation with their nonsense. When people get frustrated with them and reach their breaking point, the one that finally breaks gets banned. If there was just one forum that had a 'back it up or shut up' rule to it, you would see much more productive conversation and less trolling.
Another thing is that it seems like one or more of the mods here either don't know the forum community well or take the odd stance of judging each individual post on its own merit with complete disregard for past and history. Anyone that's been posting here for a year or so can easily tell you the exact intent of some posters' posts the minute it is posted. Oh, to the person that just said to themselves "You know their intent? You're a mind reader?" No, not a mind reader, just someone a lot better at learning from history than you fucking are.
"Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here."
Agreed. Someone can spout the most ignorant garbage and, despite every post explaining the contrary, will continue to repeat the same nonsense over and over until someone finally breaks. You break, you get banned. It's pretty much the rule here. Your choices? Here's some:
Wait out the ban and return to business as usual
Suck it up and realize shouting people down gets you everywhere here, facts and history don't
Start stacking the blocked list. As soon as you see one of those names (their posts are hidden) in a thread you are in, realize it's about to go south and move on to another thread.
Troll. Spout the dumbest, most naive ridiculousness you can think of. When presented with ANY counter argument, stick to your guns. False dichotomy, argumentum ad populum, straw men, red herrings work well here. If what you're looking for is a threadnaught, use MMOExposed's favorite, The Non-Sequitur. You can bank on that last one. It's good for at least two pages and a ban (not for you, of course - you're the victim here).
Well, see y'all in a week.
LOL! You just trolled the trolls. So I guess that would make you a white troll as opposed to the black ones.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here.
I think TS you got to take into context sometimes on what is "the truth".
Opinions are not truth. They are not facts. On the flipside they are also not necessarily lies either unless they try to present it as facts. Even then, it might be a matter of perspective or deduced from information using sources differing from yours.
So you shouldn't always be so confident and debate it with them as if they are "lying". For all we know their intentions may be sincere and that's sincerely what they know from what source they get the information from.
Best way to debate a case is through concisely presenting a list of reasoning and source of your information so that the opposite side can do the same. If they cannot do so it will automatically paint them in a bad light anyways. No need to argue unless it becomes personally offensive.
"Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here."
Agreed. Someone can spout the most ignorant garbage and, despite every post explaining the contrary, will continue to repeat the same nonsense over and over until someone finally breaks. You break, you get banned. It's pretty much the rule here. Your choices? Here's some:
Wait out the ban and return to business as usual
Suck it up and realize shouting people down gets you everywhere here, facts and history don't
Start stacking the blocked list. As soon as you see one of those names (their posts are hidden) in a thread you are in, realize it's about to go south and move on to another thread.
Troll. Spout the dumbest, most naive ridiculousness you can think of. When presented with ANY counter argument, stick to your guns. False dichotomy, argumentum ad populum, straw men, red herrings work well here. If what you're looking for is a threadnaught, use MMOExposed's favorite, The Non-Sequitur. You can bank on that last one. It's good for at least two pages and a ban (not for you, of course - you're the victim here).
Well, see y'all in a week.
This is what the moderation really needs to look at on this site. Allowing the obvious nonsense to carry on and banning the people who grow frustrated or upset at the people who repeat it over and over doesn't make a better community or get them more hits. It creates a super hostile environment where all people do is learn how to be passive aggressive towards everyone.
Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here.
I think TS you got to take into context sometimes on what is "the truth".
Opinions are not truth. They are not facts. On the flipside they are also not necessarily lies either unless they try to present it as facts. Even then, it might be a matter of perspective or deduced from information using sources differing from yours.
I agree about opinions not being facts but when you state facts and people think they are just a differing of opinion then it gets difficult. Beyond saying "sorry but you obviously don't have a clue, check out these sources and take my first hand experience as a reason why I know you are wrong" which doesn't work I have no idea how to keep a discussion moving forward.
So you shouldn't always be so confident and debate it with them as if they are "lying". For all we know their intentions may be sincere and that's sincerely what they know from what source they get the information from.
I do not doubt they are sincere. I cannot argue opinion or sincerity. But even when I have tried to used evidence they just come back with outright lies. I personally don't like people lying and hiding behind "oh but it is just my opinion" and will call someone up on that but it gets me into trouble.
Best way to debate a case is through concisely presenting a list of reasoning and source of your information so that the opposite side can do the same. If they cannot do so it will automatically paint them in a bad light anyways. No need to argue unless it becomes personally offensive.
The main problem is, I could present a long list of evidence (and do). First hand experience, closed door conversations, direct conversations with developers, knowledge of stuff not available for publication waiting for release...but none of it matters when they can come back and just counter everything as 'you are wrong' or 'you are a fanboy' etc...
I guess I am just frustrated by the ease at which discussions can be derailed. I have also had problems recently with some 'official' stuff from this site where information is presented as the current situation and it is simply false either from lack of investigation or laziness. I would hope that moderation would also try and keep discussions honest as well as civil but it seems civility is more important then honesty....
Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here. I keep getting banned for arguing the case, sometimes deserved sometimes not. But the comments that are outright lies remain and that pisses me off more then getting a ban. It seems I could write the most blatant lies about a game and get away with it but call someone ignorant because they don't know something is bad. This is especially frustrating when you can provide links or sources to back up your case and they are ignored.
How do you or how would you deal with posts that are complete lies or misrepresentations (not even talking opinions here, just outright lies). I personally don't care if I offend someone by calling them out on a lie as I find the truth more important.
So do you think it is more important to state the truth, call someone out for what they are and take the ban or just keep quite and let the lies continue?
Are you talking about a mmo on their forums? If so then that is why, anything said bad about the game that might be to close to the truth if it is true will get you ban. It's a business first and a game second, which I happen to believe is one of the underline issues with MMO's.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Most people's evidence really is just someone else's opinion.
Brilliant! That says it all doesn't it? I think that should be your signature instead of the one you are using, although I agree with it too.
OT: The Truth Hurts? It does if you are in the wrong, no matter how you state it. I've been warned/temp-banned many times here. Honestly IMO very few have been warranted. But anyway, my tactic is to weight the tone of the post. If the OP is coming from a trollish POV, I will attack with both Truth Barrels. If the OP is honestly mistaken, then I will point out the mistake in a non threatening way (I hope).
If you are an obvious troll (is obvious) then why should I be polite? Screw you and the keyboard you typed on. You are not wanted in this community and the Mods/owners of this community should feel the same. If I get a warring/temp-ban then so be it. At least I tried.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Words are key, I"d hardly call myself a nice guy or non combative, I've gotten one warning in I don't know how long and that one was reversed. even longer since seeing a ban, again wording is key.. Secondly don't be overly overt in your hostility..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There are ways to achieve your aim without getting the ban. Tell the truth but do it politely. Instead of saying someone is a liar or ignorant call them misinformed or mistaken.
Provide your proof to support your position and sit back and enjoy the fireworks.
You don't have to be adversarial to oppose an opinion or false statement. You may not care if you upset someone but common decency requires some level of civility.
This is a huge problem to me. Political correctness has gotten to the point where if you call someone ignorant, you're now being rude... Calling it like it is by calling someone a liar, if they indeed lied intentional, should not be wrong.
I'm not talking about being PC because I hate the overblown monster PC has become just as much as you do. I'm talking about basic decency. You don't need to be rude to get a point across which is what the OP alludes to when he says he doesn't care if he upsets someone calling them out.
You're a liar.
You're mistaken.
One of those is accusatory and adverserial, the other a lot less threatening. Which is more likely to get modded?
It's easy to post a rant and get banned when the flames start, and those posts are also easily moderated, or called into question due to the language.
Alternatively, by using cold logic and offering a calm and politley worded counter arguement, you can be reasonably sure that you won't get hit by the mod hammer and still prove your opposition to be wrong.
Than again being my age I suppose I was brought up in a time when civility and politeness were more common than they are today.
I'm not talking about being PC because I hate the overblown monster PC has become just as much as you do. I'm talking about basic decency. You don't need to be rude to get a point across which is what the OP alludes to when he says he doesn't care if he upsets someone calling them out.
My problem is, I don't think I am being rude I am just being honest. If I call someone a liar because I know they are lying (like showing evidence that proves they have lied) then I don't expect to be warned, I expect to be backed up.
I am the same face to face. If I think someone is wrong I tell them and I only get 'rude' when they are just playing dumb because I don't back down from those confrontations (stems back to early bullying days when I learned how to stop being a victim by not shying away from being honest).
You're a liar.
You're mistaken.
One of those is accusatory and adverserial, the other a lot less threatening. Which is more likely to get modded?
I agree with you but, if you know for a fact that someone is lying you should be free to say so. Especially when they are not just being mistaken but are outright lying about something.
That is what I hate, having to not be truthful simply to be polite or avoid getting banned.
It's easy to post a rant and get banned when the flames start, and those posts are also easily moderated, or called into question due to the language.
Alternatively, by using cold logic and offering a calm and politley worded counter arguement, you can be reasonably sure that you won't get hit by the mod hammer and still prove your opposition to be wrong.
Than again being my age I suppose I was brought up in a time when civility and politeness were more common than they are today.
I am no spring chicken myself and I am polite to people that deserve (everyone except those that have shown disrespect basically). But I also learnt that walking away from these types of people just lets them get away with it.
When your well written responses, evidence backing your claim and clear explanation fail I don't want to just give up I want them to back down. Essentially I would love for moderation to also deal with the 'lalalala not listening' posters too.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It seems I could write the most blatant lies about a game and get away with it but call someone ignorant because they don't know something is bad.
Laserit has the right of it.
It's amazing how hard this is for some people but I suppose it is.
If someone posts inaccurate information (which might not be a lie, remember a "lie" is knowingly posting inaccurate information) then you should feel free to argue the point with evidence, logic, links, examples and anything else that supports your case.
Not calling people "ignorant".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I am no spring chicken myself and I am polite to people that deserve (everyone except those that have shown disrespect basically). But I also learnt that walking away from these types of people just lets them get away with it.
When your well written responses, evidence backing your claim and clear explanation fail I don't want to just give up I want them to back down. Essentially I would love for moderation to also deal with the 'lalalala not listening' posters too.
If someone won't listen then there's no hope for them. They'll never see your point of view as valid and you're wasting your breath. I don't think it's a case of letting people get away with anything, they're just never going to change their position.
Having said that I don't see why I should lower myself to their level and be disrespectful, if that's what they've done. Another thing to consider is that sometimes a person can be 100% convinced they are right about something even when they're not. Is it really a lie in that case?
I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt in that case and if they won't listen then it's their loss. They will be the ones who are disappointed or proven wrong when the truth finally comes out, as it invariably does.
Lastly, it's just a forum post. In the great scheme of things it's really not that big of a deal, so who cares if they get it wrong and won't listen? In the situations you describe, where someone is that adament they know the answer and won't listen, I tend to laugh it of and just think to myself "dickhead". But I'd never call them it, that'd be rude
Think of it like verbal PVP with a very specified rule-set. State (what you believe are) facts, keep it classy, and speak to the post, not the poster. It's been mentioned that calling someone out on their ignorance is not permissible. Well... Yea... How do you know they are truly ignorant, all you have is what they've posted. So, speak to the post, "that POST was ignorant as hell (IMO)".
Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here. I keep getting banned for arguing the case, sometimes deserved sometimes not. But the comments that are outright lies remain and that pisses me off more then getting a ban. It seems I could write the most blatant lies about a game and get away with it but call someone ignorant because they don't know something is bad. This is especially frustrating when you can provide links or sources to back up your case and they are ignored.
How do you or how would you deal with posts that are complete lies or misrepresentations (not even talking opinions here, just outright lies). I personally don't care if I offend someone by calling them out on a lie as I find the truth more important.
So do you think it is more important to state the truth, call someone out for what they are and take the ban or just keep quite and let the lies continue?
If you have information with references, post the information that refutes the statements made by other people. If not, move on to #2. Do not reference the poster who posted inaccurate information, only the post.
If you don't have references but just "know" something, post that. It might be that someone else can find the reference. Do not reference the poster who posted the inaccurate information, only the post.
Go on with your day.
Sometimes the "truth" is relative to the person presenting it, especially when the "truth" resolves around with game or game mechanics are "better", "more innovative", etc. These things may be presented as truths, but they aren't facts.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Kaladin You should try - the truth WHILE being polite.
Yeah, great call.
While I agree completely, some of us still get banned for speaking out against misinformation. It's also true if you talk about facts, not opinions, but facts about certain games here.
I see posts/replies 10 times worse than anything I've ever written every day. I had never received a ban on this site (or anywhere for that matter) until GW2 was in full hype mode. At that point I started receiving complimentary, mandatory vacations from mmorpg.com every once in a while. No bans for about 7 years and then games with W in them started coming out.
At the same time the entire dynamic around here seemed to shift.
For the record I now hate the letter, "W".
I guess my point is, just because you (generally speaking) have never been banned doesn't mean that those that have are all toxic posters of filth.
This was brought to you by the number Purple and the color Twelve.
All good advice, specifically about dealing with the post not the poster. Sometimes it is hard to separate them, especially with those special posters that just post over and over with obviously no knowledge of what they are talking about.
Deal with the post, not the poster....good advice.
"Presenting inaccurate information or outright lying about a game seems to be condoned here."
Agreed. Someone can spout the most ignorant garbage and, despite every post explaining the contrary, will continue to repeat the same nonsense over and over until someone finally breaks. You break, you get banned. It's pretty much the rule here. Your choices? Here's some:
Wait out the ban and return to business as usual
Suck it up and realize shouting people down gets you everywhere here, facts and history don't
Start stacking the blocked list. As soon as you see one of those names (their posts are hidden) in a thread you are in, realize it's about to go south and move on to another thread.
Troll. Spout the dumbest, most naive ridiculousness you can think of. When presented with ANY counter argument, stick to your guns. False dichotomy, argumentum ad populum, straw men, red herrings work well here. If what you're looking for is a threadnaught, use MMOExposed's favorite, The Non-Sequitur. You can bank on that last one. It's good for at least two pages and a ban (not for you, of course - you're the victim here).
Well, see y'all in a week.
LOL! You just trolled the trolls. So I guess that would make you a white troll as opposed to the black ones.
(Col. Kurtz voice): "And they call me a troll. What do you call it, when the trolls troll the trolls?"
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
well guess Im too boring - never been banned, have recieved a warning afew years back but other than that....
stupid thing about your ban for saying: Im going to report you, is that it by itself is a threat, instead of just doing it if you d feel like it
anyway when it come to entertainment value, diffrent people diffrent brainwash...or hype whatever you call it - hardly ever you could claim anyone really lying, but just that person is being a more positive person than yourself ; )
The most common scenario is when someone is obviously not knowledgeable of the subject matter they are going on about.
Is there a polite way to say "You really don't know what you are talking about"? Even if there is, would such a post be of any value without explaining what it is they misunderstood, didn't know or were misinformed on? And, if you've been in such a situation and tried to offer a polite, informative reply, halfway through weren't you wondering if it was actually worth the effort?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You're a good egg, Ky. We need a lot more Kyleran's around here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
LOL! You just trolled the trolls. So I guess that would make you a white troll as opposed to the black ones.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
I think TS you got to take into context sometimes on what is "the truth".
Opinions are not truth. They are not facts. On the flipside they are also not necessarily lies either unless they try to present it as facts. Even then, it might be a matter of perspective or deduced from information using sources differing from yours.
So you shouldn't always be so confident and debate it with them as if they are "lying". For all we know their intentions may be sincere and that's sincerely what they know from what source they get the information from.
Best way to debate a case is through concisely presenting a list of reasoning and source of your information so that the opposite side can do the same. If they cannot do so it will automatically paint them in a bad light anyways. No need to argue unless it becomes personally offensive.
This is what the moderation really needs to look at on this site. Allowing the obvious nonsense to carry on and banning the people who grow frustrated or upset at the people who repeat it over and over doesn't make a better community or get them more hits. It creates a super hostile environment where all people do is learn how to be passive aggressive towards everyone.
I agree about opinions not being facts but when you state facts and people think they are just a differing of opinion then it gets difficult. Beyond saying "sorry but you obviously don't have a clue, check out these sources and take my first hand experience as a reason why I know you are wrong" which doesn't work I have no idea how to keep a discussion moving forward.
I do not doubt they are sincere. I cannot argue opinion or sincerity. But even when I have tried to used evidence they just come back with outright lies. I personally don't like people lying and hiding behind "oh but it is just my opinion" and will call someone up on that but it gets me into trouble.
The main problem is, I could present a long list of evidence (and do). First hand experience, closed door conversations, direct conversations with developers, knowledge of stuff not available for publication waiting for release...but none of it matters when they can come back and just counter everything as 'you are wrong' or 'you are a fanboy' etc...
I guess I am just frustrated by the ease at which discussions can be derailed. I have also had problems recently with some 'official' stuff from this site where information is presented as the current situation and it is simply false either from lack of investigation or laziness. I would hope that moderation would also try and keep discussions honest as well as civil but it seems civility is more important then honesty....
Are you talking about a mmo on their forums? If so then that is why, anything said bad about the game that might be to close to the truth if it is true will get you ban. It's a business first and a game second, which I happen to believe is one of the underline issues with MMO's.
Brilliant! That says it all doesn't it? I think that should be your signature instead of the one you are using, although I agree with it too.
OT: The Truth Hurts? It does if you are in the wrong, no matter how you state it. I've been warned/temp-banned many times here. Honestly IMO very few have been warranted. But anyway, my tactic is to weight the tone of the post. If the OP is coming from a trollish POV, I will attack with both Truth Barrels. If the OP is honestly mistaken, then I will point out the mistake in a non threatening way (I hope).
If you are an obvious troll (is obvious) then why should I be polite? Screw you and the keyboard you typed on. You are not wanted in this community and the Mods/owners of this community should feel the same. If I get a warring/temp-ban then so be it. At least I tried.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm not talking about being PC because I hate the overblown monster PC has become just as much as you do. I'm talking about basic decency. You don't need to be rude to get a point across which is what the OP alludes to when he says he doesn't care if he upsets someone calling them out.
You're a liar.
You're mistaken.
One of those is accusatory and adverserial, the other a lot less threatening. Which is more likely to get modded?
It's easy to post a rant and get banned when the flames start, and those posts are also easily moderated, or called into question due to the language.
Alternatively, by using cold logic and offering a calm and politley worded counter arguement, you can be reasonably sure that you won't get hit by the mod hammer and still prove your opposition to be wrong.
Than again being my age I suppose I was brought up in a time when civility and politeness were more common than they are today.
My problem is, I don't think I am being rude I am just being honest. If I call someone a liar because I know they are lying (like showing evidence that proves they have lied) then I don't expect to be warned, I expect to be backed up.
I am the same face to face. If I think someone is wrong I tell them and I only get 'rude' when they are just playing dumb because I don't back down from those confrontations (stems back to early bullying days when I learned how to stop being a victim by not shying away from being honest).
I agree with you but, if you know for a fact that someone is lying you should be free to say so. Especially when they are not just being mistaken but are outright lying about something.
That is what I hate, having to not be truthful simply to be polite or avoid getting banned.
I am no spring chicken myself and I am polite to people that deserve (everyone except those that have shown disrespect basically). But I also learnt that walking away from these types of people just lets them get away with it.
When your well written responses, evidence backing your claim and clear explanation fail I don't want to just give up I want them to back down. Essentially I would love for moderation to also deal with the 'lalalala not listening' posters too.
I heard that you were a cornish hen.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Laserit has the right of it.
It's amazing how hard this is for some people but I suppose it is.
If someone posts inaccurate information (which might not be a lie, remember a "lie" is knowingly posting inaccurate information) then you should feel free to argue the point with evidence, logic, links, examples and anything else that supports your case.
Not calling people "ignorant".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If someone won't listen then there's no hope for them. They'll never see your point of view as valid and you're wasting your breath. I don't think it's a case of letting people get away with anything, they're just never going to change their position.
Having said that I don't see why I should lower myself to their level and be disrespectful, if that's what they've done. Another thing to consider is that sometimes a person can be 100% convinced they are right about something even when they're not. Is it really a lie in that case?
I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt in that case and if they won't listen then it's their loss. They will be the ones who are disappointed or proven wrong when the truth finally comes out, as it invariably does.
Lastly, it's just a forum post. In the great scheme of things it's really not that big of a deal, so who cares if they get it wrong and won't listen? In the situations you describe, where someone is that adament they know the answer and won't listen, I tend to laugh it of and just think to myself "dickhead". But I'd never call them it, that'd be rude
It's been mentioned that calling someone out on their ignorance is not permissible. Well... Yea... How do you know they are truly ignorant, all you have is what they've posted. So, speak to the post, "that POST was ignorant as hell (IMO)".
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yeah, great call.
While I agree completely, some of us still get banned for speaking out against misinformation. It's also true if you talk about facts, not opinions, but facts about certain games here.
I see posts/replies 10 times worse than anything I've ever written every day. I had never received a ban on this site (or anywhere for that matter) until GW2 was in full hype mode. At that point I started receiving complimentary, mandatory vacations from mmorpg.com every once in a while. No bans for about 7 years and then games with W in them started coming out.
At the same time the entire dynamic around here seemed to shift.
For the record I now hate the letter, "W".
I guess my point is, just because you (generally speaking) have never been banned doesn't mean that those that have are all toxic posters of filth.
This was brought to you by the number Purple and the color Twelve.
All good advice, specifically about dealing with the post not the poster. Sometimes it is hard to separate them, especially with those special posters that just post over and over with obviously no knowledge of what they are talking about.
Deal with the post, not the poster....good advice.
From "A Few Good Men":
Col. Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I think I'm entitled to.
Col. Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Col. Jessep: You can't handle the truth!
The truth hurts and unfortunately often leads to getting yourself in trouble...
(Col. Kurtz voice): "And they call me a troll. What do you call it, when the trolls troll the trolls?"