F2P accounts don't regen labor offline. Sure, a dedicated person might have a ton of different computers and multi-box programs to keep all those F2P accounts online, but a REALLY dedicated person will just buy patronage for ALL of them.
6 characters per account x 6 pots = 6k LP every 12 hours. 1 patron account = 720 LP every 12 hours.
What matters is number of characters and accounts you have, offline regen is just little, insignificant extra.
6 Patron accounts = 4,320 LP every 12 hours, and is much cheaper too. AND you can still buy the 6 potions for an additional 6k LP every 12 hours anyways.
I am also fond of the system. It stabilizes the market by preventing an overabundance of items being put on the AH where one person just low ball posts to dump items. I do not really craft much but I am starting to level some professions and from my experience with other MMOs this system is better than most.
People will complain because that's what people do but labor in my opinion is better than item decay. I would rather have a limited supply over being forced to replace gear at inappropriate times.
Labor Points does not address that at all. LP can be gotten around if one wants to, and there are significantly better ways to limit market flooding such as manufacturing cooldowns or resource rarity for the high end stuff.
Any system that you can get only one day to play, and be unable to do what you want for that day without jumping through hoops (especially involving you or someone else paying cash) is a poorly designed system.
Originally posted by TiamatRoar 6 Patron accounts = 4,320 LP every 12 hours, and is much cheaper too. AND you can still buy the 6 potions for an additional 6k LP every 12 hours anyways.
Your math fails.
Patron status makes up for only 10% of your potential LP you can get.
6 Patron accounts = 4,320 LP every 12 hours, and is much cheaper too. AND you can still buy the 6 potions for an additional 6k LP every 12 hours anyways.
Your math fails.
Patron status makes up for only 10% of your potential LP you can get.
You guys are going at this the wrong way. How much does Patron status cost? $15 a month. How much LP can a player effectively use in that time just from Patron status? 10 LP every 5 minutes instead of 5 every 5 minutes. There are 1440 minutes in a day, so the Patron account generates 2880 LP per day, whether online or offline. The F2P account, if online for 12 hours would generate 720 LP. They probably won't be online for 12 hours, so far, far less LP generation than the P2P account. In terms of dollars per LP, the F2P account still comes out ahead, but they are very limited.
No idea how much LP pots cost. Someone else will have to do that math. Dollars per LP or LP per dollar is the measure of which one generates "more". How much LP would $15 in a month buy a F2P account per day?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbones 10 LP every 5 minutes instead of 5 every 5 minutes. There are 1440 minutes in a day, so the Patron account generates 2880 LP per day, whether online or offline.
Patron account generates only half the amount while offline - 5 LP per 5 min.
10 LP every 5 minutes instead of 5 every 5 minutes. There are 1440 minutes in a day, so the Patron account generates 2880 LP per day, whether online or offline.
Patron account generates only half the amount while offline - 5 LP per 5 min.
So we set some ground rules for comparison. It is unlikely that most players are going to be online for more than 8 hours. So 8 hours of play time (480 minutes) and 16 hours of offline time (960 minutes). The Patron earns 2LP per minute while online, and 1 LP per minute while offline. That comes out to 1920 LP per day and is spending about 50 cents a day.
The F2P player will only earn 480 LP. The P2P person comes out well ahead. They would come out well ahead even if they did not log in, earning 1440 LP per day. The F2P has not spent any money though.
Assuming each person can have multiple characters, and will purchase 2 LP pots per day (1 every 12 hours). The F2P account will be limited to 2 characters, so a main and 1 alts. They will max out at (480LP * 2) + (4000 LP) a day = 4960 LP a day. The Patron will be limited to 4 per server, so they will max out at (1920LP * 4) + (8000 LP) a day = 15,680 LP a day.
Even without buying any LP pots, the Patron account would have 7680 LP in a day vs the 960 LP in a day the F2P account will generate.
I can't find any reference for how much LP pots cost. Does anyone know? Buying multiple Patron accounts may be the most efficient method of generating LP overall, even if that would distribute the LP among characters. Focusing LP into a single character seems like the best way to level up skills, while having multiple accounts will obviously generate the most LP.
**
Are there skill level limitations for turning LP into resources? i.e. Can a new, F2P character contribute their LP to a high level resource generator, or does the character need a certain minimal level to convert LP into resources? If there is no level restriction on this, then many F2P accounts would be a huge pain to manage, but the most efficient method of converting LP to resources.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Are there skill level limitations for turning LP into resources? i.e. Can a new, F2P character contribute their LP to a high level resource generator, or does the character need a certain minimal level to convert LP into resources? If there is no level restriction on this, then many F2P accounts would be a huge pain to manage, but the most efficient method of converting LP to resources.
FTP players can't own land, but they can farm other patron player's farms. FTP players also cannot list items on the AH, so they would need a patron to do it for them.
Basically a guild's core members donate the seed money to buy labor pots of the AH for as many accounts/characters as they have the time to manage. Once their farms and crafts get rolling they can pay for the pots themselves and still be profitable.
Basically the people willing to manage tons of accounts and characters have no limitations and can control the market. Its impossible for a casual player with only 1 character to compete with them due to the LP regen limitations.
Basically the people willing to manage tons of accounts and characters have no limitations and can control the market. Its impossible for a casual player with only 1 character to compete with them due to the LP regen limitations.
How is this different from any other game? The hard core, live in moms basement and play games 8 hours a day crowd will almost always generate more advantage in MMO's than those of us who play casual.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Basically the people willing to manage tons of accounts and characters have no limitations and can control the market. Its impossible for a casual player with only 1 character to compete with them due to the LP regen limitations.
How is this different from any other game? The hard core, live in moms basement and play games 8 hours a day crowd will almost always generate more advantage in MMO's than those of us who play casual.
I agree, but Look at the title of this thread.
Casual players for some reason think LP creates a balanced market because it limits player progression. This is flat out wrong as myself and countless others have demonstrated. In fact casual players are much more harshly handicapped than they are in the vast majority of Western MMOs.
Limiting casual player progression makes it much EASIER for the 'The hard core, live in moms basement and play games 8 hours a day crowd' to run the show.
Basically the people willing to manage tons of accounts and characters have no limitations and can control the market. Its impossible for a casual player with only 1 character to compete with them due to the LP regen limitations.
How is this different from any other game? The hard core, live in moms basement and play games 8 hours a day crowd will almost always generate more advantage in MMO's than those of us who play casual.
I agree, but Look at the title of this thread.
Casual players for some reason think LP creates a balanced market because it limits player progression. This is flat out wrong as myself and countless others have demonstrated. In fact casual players are much more harshly handicapped than they are in the vast majority of Western MMOs.
Limiting casual player progression makes it much EASIER for the 'The hard core, live in moms basement and play games 8 hours a day crowd' to run the show.
The difference would be more in the "running the show" than getting stuff. In WoW, the hard core crowd is going to get everywhere first, but the casual can eventually get there if they want, at a pace that they feel like setting. When achievement depends on PvP and resources, the hard core crowd, with money, is going to run things. Players will need to pick the hard core crowd they want to run with if they are going to get to the game's end game.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's not a game for casual players, but it's not designed to be a game for casual players. It makes the inclusion of quests a little weird. It makes sense if the game world is very large and if the casual players can actually get on with their playing without being bothered too much by the whole converting LP to resources to gear type stuff.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
6 Patron accounts = 4,320 LP every 12 hours, and is much cheaper too. AND you can still buy the 6 potions for an additional 6k LP every 12 hours anyways.
Labor Points does not address that at all. LP can be gotten around if one wants to, and there are significantly better ways to limit market flooding such as manufacturing cooldowns or resource rarity for the high end stuff.
Any system that you can get only one day to play, and be unable to do what you want for that day without jumping through hoops (especially involving you or someone else paying cash) is a poorly designed system.
Your math fails.
Patron status makes up for only 10% of your potential LP you can get.
You guys are going at this the wrong way. How much does Patron status cost? $15 a month. How much LP can a player effectively use in that time just from Patron status? 10 LP every 5 minutes instead of 5 every 5 minutes. There are 1440 minutes in a day, so the Patron account generates 2880 LP per day, whether online or offline. The F2P account, if online for 12 hours would generate 720 LP. They probably won't be online for 12 hours, so far, far less LP generation than the P2P account. In terms of dollars per LP, the F2P account still comes out ahead, but they are very limited.
No idea how much LP pots cost. Someone else will have to do that math. Dollars per LP or LP per dollar is the measure of which one generates "more". How much LP would $15 in a month buy a F2P account per day?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Patron account generates only half the amount while offline - 5 LP per 5 min.
So we set some ground rules for comparison. It is unlikely that most players are going to be online for more than 8 hours. So 8 hours of play time (480 minutes) and 16 hours of offline time (960 minutes). The Patron earns 2LP per minute while online, and 1 LP per minute while offline. That comes out to 1920 LP per day and is spending about 50 cents a day.
The F2P player will only earn 480 LP. The P2P person comes out well ahead. They would come out well ahead even if they did not log in, earning 1440 LP per day. The F2P has not spent any money though.
Assuming each person can have multiple characters, and will purchase 2 LP pots per day (1 every 12 hours). The F2P account will be limited to 2 characters, so a main and 1 alts. They will max out at (480LP * 2) + (4000 LP) a day = 4960 LP a day. The Patron will be limited to 4 per server, so they will max out at (1920LP * 4) + (8000 LP) a day = 15,680 LP a day.
Even without buying any LP pots, the Patron account would have 7680 LP in a day vs the 960 LP in a day the F2P account will generate.
I can't find any reference for how much LP pots cost. Does anyone know? Buying multiple Patron accounts may be the most efficient method of generating LP overall, even if that would distribute the LP among characters. Focusing LP into a single character seems like the best way to level up skills, while having multiple accounts will obviously generate the most LP.
**
Are there skill level limitations for turning LP into resources? i.e. Can a new, F2P character contribute their LP to a high level resource generator, or does the character need a certain minimal level to convert LP into resources? If there is no level restriction on this, then many F2P accounts would be a huge pain to manage, but the most efficient method of converting LP to resources.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Here is what a couple of pros think of this system and not some armchair dev like most of us haha
FTP players can't own land, but they can farm other patron player's farms. FTP players also cannot list items on the AH, so they would need a patron to do it for them.
Basically a guild's core members donate the seed money to buy labor pots of the AH for as many accounts/characters as they have the time to manage. Once their farms and crafts get rolling they can pay for the pots themselves and still be profitable.
Basically the people willing to manage tons of accounts and characters have no limitations and can control the market. Its impossible for a casual player with only 1 character to compete with them due to the LP regen limitations.
How is this different from any other game? The hard core, live in moms basement and play games 8 hours a day crowd will almost always generate more advantage in MMO's than those of us who play casual.
I agree, but Look at the title of this thread.
Casual players for some reason think LP creates a balanced market because it limits player progression. This is flat out wrong as myself and countless others have demonstrated. In fact casual players are much more harshly handicapped than they are in the vast majority of Western MMOs.
Limiting casual player progression makes it much EASIER for the 'The hard core, live in moms basement and play games 8 hours a day crowd' to run the show.
The difference would be more in the "running the show" than getting stuff. In WoW, the hard core crowd is going to get everywhere first, but the casual can eventually get there if they want, at a pace that they feel like setting. When achievement depends on PvP and resources, the hard core crowd, with money, is going to run things. Players will need to pick the hard core crowd they want to run with if they are going to get to the game's end game.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's not a game for casual players, but it's not designed to be a game for casual players. It makes the inclusion of quests a little weird. It makes sense if the game world is very large and if the casual players can actually get on with their playing without being bothered too much by the whole converting LP to resources to gear type stuff.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Max character slots
+ Shared Labor on account
+ Labor pots for each character.. (Cashshop)
________________________________
= Crafting power house...
Everyone else... just scrubs... including patrons. Just a matter of time before the OP equipment is rolled out.